What if the court postpones Nane Nane

[Kichwa]

• Tweet

Ouruto keeps on saying that Nane Nane will NOT and CANNOT be changed but what if the Supreme Court were to do so, what exactly will ouruto do?    NASA has the momentum heading to 8/8, but they too will have to obey the law if the court were to issue an order postponing the elections. Ouruto seems to think they are above the law and that only NASA must obey the law. Seriously, what would Ouru do? 

[Nefertiti]

I don't think the political grandstanding is meant for anyone but the public. All parties will obey the court's decision without any choice. Postponing the elections by a month or two is quite logical in the face of integrity questions. The most moronic party in this saga for me is the AG who keeps enjoining himself as amicus curiae (read busy body), telling scare stories about constitutional crisis. The justices almost roll their eyes.

Once the Al Ghurair tender is thrown out, IEBC will pray for direction on a new date and get it. The politicians will go on to blame each other for this and that while continuing their campaigns.

[RV Pundit]

Then that will mark the end of judiciary.UhuRuto will have no option but fight and emasculate it like previous regime.That will be crossing the line. Parliament will have to enact laws to reign on them.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Then that will mark the end of judiciary.UhuRuto will have no option but fight and emasculate it like previous regime.That will be crossing the line. Parliament will have to enact laws to reign on them.

How would that happen?  Would the IEBC defy the court?  That would be just recipe for chaos.  I think Robina has it right as to what would likely happen. Whatever laws Parliament enacts have to be constitutional - the same courts have to be alright with them if they are brought in front of them. 

[Kichwa]

That would be the end of ouru as president because he is a constitutional president. Ouru is not president because he was declared to be one by kikuyu/kalenjin alliance but because he was declared by IEBC and later confirmed by the court and sworn into office by Chief Justice. Ouru cannot emasculate the judiciary. In fact he cannot. I do not think the court is even scared of him. Ouru is not Kafame or Museveni who fought there way to power. Ouru relied on the law to get power and he cannot survive a day without the constitutional protections that he now enjoys.

Then that will mark the end of judiciary.UhuRuto will have no option but fight and emasculate it like previous regime.That will be crossing the line. Parliament will have to enact laws to reign on them.

[RV Pundit]

They will certainly get away with it this time round but after UhuRuto are re-elected with huge parliamentary majority they will be in big trouble. Judiciary cannot and will not be allowed to stage a constitutional coup without serious consequences.

How would that happen?  Would the IEBC defy the court?  That would be just recipe for chaos.  I think Robina has it right as to what would likely happen. Whatever laws Parliament enacts have to be constitutional - the same courts have to be alright with them if they are brought in front of them. 

[RV Pundit]

The last constitution -1963 - was near copy of this constitution - but over time the executive and parliament chipped off that independence - eventually leaving it at mercy of the pork. I believe the same can happen. Judiciary have to understand they've to exercise their powers with extreme caution. There are nothing compared to PORK or Parliament. Nobody elected them. Their security of tenure can be removed any day - and president allowed for fire any of them.

That would be the end of ouru as president because he is a constitutional president. Ouru is not president because he was declared to be one by kikuyu/kalenjin alliance but because he was declared by IEBC and later confirmed by the court and sworn into office by Chief Justice. Ouru cannot emasculate the judiciary. In fact he cannot. I do not think the court is even scared of him. Ouru is not Kafame or Museveni who fought there way to power. Ouru relied on the law to get power and he cannot survive a day without the constitutional protections that he now enjoys.

[Kadame5]

Pundit, postponing an election by a few weeks is not a "coup" by any stretch of the imagination. You are sure Jubilee has this in the bag, so why resist the reforms? Let everything appear above par then when Jubilee stomps through with 55 or 60 or 70% there will be no ability to shout foul.

[RV Pundit]

That would be a constitutional coup. The reason we put the date there is to ensure we have predictable day. Let election go on. If NASA fears are confirmed and election are not fair or free - then I expect NASA to ran to Supreme Court - and have it annualed - and we can go for another election.

Judiciary should never be allowed to become the law unto themselves esp on matters written in plain english that there shall be election on 8.8.2017. IEBC an independent institution say they are ready - let them go ahead and execute their constitutional mandate. Whatever rights would be infringed can be cured in a petition.

We know the NASA game plan - postphone election then create constitutional crisis - where parliament has been dissolved -and you have PORK out strung up - and then we hear care-taker or nusu mkate transitional gok.

Pundit, postponing an election by a few weeks is not a "coup" by any stretch of the imagination. You are sure Jubilee has this in the bag, so why resist the reforms? Let everything appear above par then when Jubilee stomps through with 55 or 60 or 70% there will be no ability to shout foul.

[Kadame5]

The last constitution -1963 - was near copy of this constitution - but over time the executive and parliament chipped off that independence - eventually leaving it at mercy of the pork. I believe the same can happen. Judiciary have to understand they've to exercise their powers with extreme caution. There are nothing compared to PORK or Parliament. Nobody elected them. Their security of tenure can be removed any day - and president allowed for fire any of them.

That would be the end of ouru as president because he is a constitutional president. Ouru is not president because he was declared to be one by kikuyu/kalenjin alliance but because he was declared by IEBC and later confirmed by the court and sworn into office by Chief Justice. Ouru cannot emasculate the judiciary. In fact he cannot. I do not think the court is even scared of him. Ouru is not Kafame or Museveni who fought there way to power. Ouru relied on the law to get power and he cannot survive a day without the constitutional protections that he now enjoys.

It was constitutionally amended. At that time, there was enough post-mkoloni unity to ensure Kenyatta the needed votes in the first 4 years of independence before people realized they should not trust him. Uhuru needs MUCH more than a parliamentary majority to ammend the 2010 constitution. It was made well nigh impossible to ammend in a divided country.

[RV Pundit]

Jubilee can ammend the constitution because they enjoy 50% plus 1 - and control more than 24 counties - if Judiciary arrogate themselves power they don't have - Kenyans will take those powers - directly, through PORK and Parliament.
In fact if they postphone election - then we need a referendum first on the power of the judiciary. Before that executive should withdraw all security and privellege the judges enjoy. They executive also would be in order to disregard any court order by the judiciary. What will they do - hire their own police men to execute orders?

It was constitutionally amended. At that time, there was enough post-mkoloni unity to ensure Kenyatta the needed votes in the first 4 years of independence before people realized they should not trust him. Uhuru needs MUCH more than a parliamentary majority to ammend the 2010 constitution. It was made well nigh impossible to ammend in a divided country.

[RV Pundit]

Personally I cannot wait to kick NASA butt and don't want it postpone by even a single minute.

[Kadame5]

That would be a constitutional coup. The reason we put the date there is to ensure we have predictable day. Let election go on. If NASA fears are confirmed and election are not fair or free - then I expect NASA to ran to Supreme Court - and have it annualed - and we can go for another election.

Judiciary should never be allowed to become the law unto themselves esp on matters written in plain english that there shall be election on 8.8.2017.

We know the NASA game plan - postphone election then create constitutional crisis - where parliament has been dissolved -and you have PORK out there doing that is strung up - and then we hear care-taker or nusu mkate transitional gok.

Pundit, postponing an election by a few weeks is not a "coup" by any stretch of the imagination. You are sure Jubilee has this in the bag, so why resist the reforms? Let everything appear above par then when Jubilee stomps through with 55 or 60 or 70% there will be no ability to shout foul.

The truth is, its the nature of the system. Supreme Courts do that all the time; pull laws out of a magic hat and they become the binding law of the land. That's how the US can discover a right to gay marriage in 2015, 200 years after the document was penned by politicians and a population that were surely homophobic, 100% guaranteed 

I thought their decisions in the 2013 case were all BS but had to accept and move on.

The constitution can be interpreted as a whole or in a literal manner, and the truth is, for good or ill, the law of the land is whatever the top court wants it to be, not what is written there. That's why Dems and Reps desperately fight over the right to appoint the next SCOTUS members in the US. There are many people who decide to vote one way or the other solely based on the ability to predict how the judges chosen by a Rep or Dem president will vote in an important case. I guess its a weird kind of democracy... if at all. What they have that we dont have is a discernible ideology and judicial philosophies that allow these predictions. In Kenya, I think tribe maybe an indicator in politically important decisions but I don't know. I only read that one decision and that was eons ago. But the problem you raise is present in many places. Its just how this system works. And the Courts over time, at least in common law countries with written constitutions, have a tendency to give themselves more and more powers over time.

You see, Pundit, y'all should have gone with the parliamentary system that RAO suggested after all, and not tried to copy Americanism in Kenya.
 

[Kadame5]

Jubilee can ammend the constitution because they enjoy 50% plus 1 - and control more than 24 counties - if Judiciary arrogate themselves power they don't have - Kenyans will take those powers - directly, through PORK and Parliament.
In fact if they postphone election - then we need a referendum first on the power of the judiciary. Before that executive should withdraw all security and privellege the judges enjoy. They executive also would be in order to disregard any court order by the judiciary. What will they do - hire their own police men to execute orders?

It was constitutionally amended. At that time, there was enough post-mkoloni unity to ensure Kenyatta the needed votes in the first 4 years of independence before people realized they should not trust him. Uhuru needs MUCH more than a parliamentary majority to ammend the 2010 constitution. It was made well nigh impossible to ammend in a divided country.

Ok, my bad. I assumed that you meant Jubilee has enough to LEGALLY amend the constitution. You are in fact suggesting that they should go all rogue Dictators. This assumes a lot. I will hope they are not dumb enough to try to pull a Moi in 2017 but we shall see..I have been wrong many times before.

[RV Pundit]

If they go rogue why wouldn't other arms of gok go rogue. Then 2013 is different. Everybody understood it was a transitional period and iebc themselves asked for it.Now iebc are saying we are ready.

[vooke]

Ouruto keeps on saying that Nane Nane will NOT and CANNOT be changed but what if the Supreme Court were to do so, what exactly will ouruto do?    NASA has the momentum heading to 8/8, but they too will have to obey the law if the court were to issue an order postponing the elections. Ouruto seems to think they are above the law and that only NASA must obey the law. Seriously, what would Ouru do? 

Nothing I can see except continue ranting against Judiciary. Uhuruto has shown some serious disdain of the Law so he'd probably step it up.

[Omollo]

Total nonsense.

The courts have that power to move the election if they so wish. The 2010 Constitution clearly provides for there to be no vacuum unlike the past constitutions. Uhuru will remain in office until Raila comes to relieve him so he can return to Gatundu.

There is no avenue for Uhuru to emasculate the Judiciary short of EJK and ball squeezing. We know where that got Moi and many other dictators.

Much as Pundit thinks it is a picnic, running a dictatorship is not easy and I do not see Uhuru or Ruto capable of doing that. The levels of stress which at moderate seem to send them to public tantrums would kill them in a week.

Then that will mark the end of judiciary.UhuRuto will have no option but fight and emasculate it like previous regime.That will be crossing the line. Parliament will have to enact laws to reign on them.

[Kichwa]

Pundito, you talk like a child. Parliamentary majority, the electoral majority or the executive  powers that you talk of are only "powers" when you have a constitution and when everybody agrees to respect that constitution. Once you undermine that constitution then everybody else do not have to respect it and the only thing you have to control the opposition is the military.  Once ouru converts from a constitutional president to a military president then that is a whole different ball game my friend.  In 2013 the courts allowed Ouru and Ruto to run, we disagreed but we respected the law and let it be.  In 2013, when the court ruled against Raila's petition, we disagreed but we respected the constitution.  Now that the court has made a few rulings against your side, you are throwing temper tantrums and calling for ouru to overthrow the constitution.  You really must believe that this is a tribal presidency and not a constitutional presidency.  Do you really think that kalenjins and kikuyus can control this country without the constitution? Stop acting like a child my friend. You need this constitution just as we do and you need to put the country first and not your tribal ego all over the place.

If they go rogue why wouldn't other arms of gok go rogue. Then 2013 is different. Everybody understood it was a transitional period and iebc themselves asked for it.Now iebc are saying we are ready.

[Nefertiti]

Uhuru would be ill-advised to pick a fight with the Judiciary. In the current dispensation that is a bad move. The courts can declare any laws null and void like they did with the security act, the press gag, the JSC act where he attempted to seize JSC power, etc. They even get to decide feuds between NA and Senate, national and county governments, etc. Even a referendum can be blocked by the courts. It would be basically shooting himself in the foot.

[RV Pundit]

No less person that CJ  recently declared 8.8.2017 election a red line that judiciary. There has to be a red-line that judiciary will not cross. I beleive having election on 8.8.2017 is one such red-line. If believe whatever conservatory orders NASA and it's groupies are seeking can be amalgamated into one huge petition and presented to SCOK. I know NASA after their last loss at SCOK are mortally afraid to go there...but that is where eventually everything will end.

Let IEBC hold election...and whatever damages that will occur....can be heard as form of petition. Constitution is indeed sacrosanct and judiciary cannot move the election date willy nilly.

Pundito, you talk like a child. Parliamentary majority, the electoral majority or the executive  powers that you talk of are only "powers" when you have a constitution and when everybody agrees to respect that constitution. Once you undermine that constitution then everybody else do not have to respect it and the only thing you have to control the opposition is the military.  Once ouru converts from a constitutional president to a military president then that is a whole different ball game my friend.  In 2013 the courts allowed Ouru and Ruto to run, we disagreed but we respected the law and let it be.  In 2013, when the court ruled against Raila's petition, we disagreed but we respected the constitution.  Now that the court has made a few rulings against your side, you are throwing temper tantrums and calling for ouru to overthrow the constitution.  You really must believe that this is a tribal presidency and not a constitutional presidency.  Do you really think that kalenjins and kikuyus can control this country without the constitution? Stop acting like a child my friend. You need this constitution just as we do and you need to put the country first and not your tribal ego all over the place.