Author Topic: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed  (Read 10213 times)

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2022, 10:26:13 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2022, 10:26:58 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2022, 10:27:49 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2022, 10:28:50 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2022, 10:29:31 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2022, 10:30:28 AM »
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Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2022, 10:31:17 AM »
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Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2022, 10:32:04 AM »
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Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2022, 10:32:53 AM »
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Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2022, 10:33:46 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2022, 10:34:41 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2022, 10:35:37 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2022, 10:36:38 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2022, 10:37:31 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2022, 10:38:21 AM »
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Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2022, 10:43:47 AM »

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #76 on: April 06, 2022, 10:45:28 AM »
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Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #77 on: April 06, 2022, 10:46:34 AM »

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #78 on: April 06, 2022, 12:18:14 PM »
Noway, this is why I'm on the fence till investigations. Videos and 'evidence' vs Counter videos and 'evidence.' Let people with requisite qualifications and office, people who KNOW how to sort these things (forensics experts, people who would analyze these videos for authenticity and details, etc), tell us which is which, after adequate opportunity to examine the scene, bodies, witnesses, etc, for themselves. Not, as I'm reading, a team of prosecutors from Ukraine and other countries already hostile to Russia. A UN team will eventually have hearings to collect information from all these Western-side investigators, alongside whatever Russian experts are coming from the opposite end, in addition to their own independent studies. Results may not be perfect but I'm inclined to go with them over what the West says while acting all by their lonesome. Maybe this team can consist of people from Scandinavia, China, India, and Turkey, plus Ukrainian/Russian people, to avoid accusations of bias, etc.

(Btw, that video of Ukrainian officers asking and apparently getting permission to shoot civilians for not wearing the Blue insgnia, is what I was referring to yesterday when I said it's just as possible some of these bodies may be victims of execution for perceived treason by Ukrainian officers as they may be victims of Russian officers: In wartime, horrors happen, and this is likely for both camps. So let the investigations happen.)

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Crime against humanity in Ukraine. Civilians killed
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2022, 10:31:13 PM »
Noway, this is why I'm on the fence till investigations. Videos and 'evidence' vs Counter videos and 'evidence.' Let people with requisite qualifications and office, people who KNOW how to sort these things (forensics experts, people who would analyze these videos for authenticity and details, etc), tell us which is which, after adequate opportunity to examine the scene, bodies, witnesses, etc, for themselves. Not, as I'm reading, a team of prosecutors from Ukraine and other countries already hostile to Russia. A UN team will eventually have hearings to collect information from all these Western-side investigators, alongside whatever Russian experts are coming from the opposite end, in addition to their own independent studies. Results may not be perfect but I'm inclined to go with them over what the West says while acting all by their lonesome. Maybe this team can consist of people from Scandinavia, China, India, and Turkey, plus Ukrainian/Russian people, to avoid accusations of bias, etc.

(Btw, that video of Ukrainian officers asking and apparently getting permission to shoot civilians for not wearing the Blue insgnia, is what I was referring to yesterday when I said it's just as possible some of these bodies may be victims of execution for perceived treason by Ukrainian officers as they may be victims of Russian officers: In wartime, horrors happen, and this is likely for both camps. So let the investigations happen.)

The investigations will happen, hopefully.  That said, I feel like one doesn't need any qualification to decide who to trust between NYT and "Russians with an attitude", "no one" etc when they give conflicting opinions. 

The idea that the Ukrainian military might be the ones butchering civilians in Kyiv is absurd ab initio.  What would they gain from that?  Is there any evidence of widespread opposition to them in that area for them to resort to such tying up and killing fellow Ukrainians? 

Conversely, the Russians were bombing civilians at bridges around Kyiv trying to flee way back in the beginning of the conflict.  The Ukrainians hate them.  And they are killing them instead of welcoming them.  It does not take an expert to make that connection prima facie.  Talk to a few refugees, get a general picture and work with it until proven otherwise.

That is why if you are an aid worker trying to help a Ukrainian fleeing around the Kyiv region, you point them away from the Russians and to where the Ukrainian military is. 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman