Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: MOON Ki on August 30, 2017, 02:12:09 AM
-
Going by this all elections stuff, Kenyans might have been better off with old-fashioned photocopying (or manual replication of figures), faxing (or even hand delivery), and the use of calculators (or even abaci). And there would be plenty of money left over to buy food for all those starving Kenyans ... "international community, saidia please".
Still, as someone already observed, there have been elections, and Africans are not finishing themselves in orgies of looting, raping, killing, etc. Surely, that has to count for something. And it does, to the saidia-please/international-community. Once again, Kenya has shown that it is an exception on the Dark Continent .... of course, if those people mess with our people who are farming there and helping the natives, well then!
-
I tell ya. At the end of the day, technology is only as good as who uses it. I think the latest is now Silicon Savanah would rather have its basic stuff nicely tucked away in France...oh wait...maybe America, AT&T...
The proceedings were worth it if only for the entertainment value of an old school wakili who cut his teeth before digital watches were all the rage trying to explain security features and why it takes days to get access because somehow Europe and America.
-
Dear MOON Ki,
Please note RV Pundit will respond for the digital & economic leapfrog team.
On a separate point, why do you so despise ICT CS Joe Mucheru? He's an excellent chap outside of the political shenanigans... quite enterprising too. Unlike most Zamundans who are contented net consumers. Founding Zuku, Google, Bitpesa, afb (microlender)... now shepherding national tech. Few merit these heights.
-
Dear MOON Ki,
Please note RV Pundit will respond for the digital & economic leapfrog team.
On a separate point, why do you so despise ICT CS Joe Mucheru? He's an excellent chap outside of the political shenanigans... quite enterprising too. Unlike most Zamundans who are contented net consumers. Founding Zuku, Google, Bitpesa, afb (microlender)... now shepherding national tech. Few merit these heights.
Dear Robina:
MOON Ki does not despise anyone. Never, ever. Not even ... oh, can't recall his "name" right now. But never mind. I'm sure CS Mucheru is an excellent chap. Top-notch, enterprising-founder type. Best of the Best. In Kenya. Now shepherding national tech to .... where exactly was that again?
-
I tell ya. At the end of the day, technology is only as good as who uses it.
Some thoughts from when back Sema-Doc or whatever was going to solve all health problems in Kenya:
I don't know what to make of the big words, like "social empowerment". My view is this: technology can never be better than the people who use it, in the sense that it cannot fundamentally change who they are. The failure or refusal to understand this produces the Kenyas of the world.
Consider, for example, the notion that the moral deficit in Kenyans (w.r.t corruption) can be fixed with technology [IFMIS]. And then you have a whole cabinet secretary say that close to Sh. 1 billion is getting stolen because someone got her password ...
On health: What are the real serious problems with the healthcare system in Kenya? Is it merely a matter of having the "right" technology? Not really.
For Kenya to really move forward, Kenyans will have to give up on ideas such as "our people above all", "eat before the other person eats it", etc. At the root of such attitudes are "problems" that cannot be solved with the mere application of technology; there is certainly little evidence to suggest that the most "technologically advanced" Kenyans are any more advanced on those issues than the manamba villagers.
http://www.nipate.org/index.php?board=1;action=post2
-
Absolutely embarrassing state of affairs. We have definitely made major strides in the digital space, but certainly we overspell our achievements. Quite rightly we should be spending money on the right things (e.g. Food security) rather than throwing money at this wasted investment. You can imagine ~Shs.40b was put into the elections out of which about half ~Shs.20b was said to be in technology and then we are being told that it was just for statistics or a display board at Bomas!!! Why are we so wasteful....??
That said some of the stuff pichted by the so called lead counsel at the petition were toddler stuff which you don't need much IT exposure to realise a failed/cheap attempt at spin! Of course most of it was just a ruse, those servers are seated right here in .ke and in any case it takes milliseconds to connect/access a server in the real Silicon Valley, leave alone France. We keep touting and breast thumping about our Mpesa "innovation" and success and that on it runs almost 70% of our GDP then we embarrass ourselves with tales of Servers in France and America and people being woken up to fire them up
-
Heck! We need the toddlers to get all sort of gadgets. For people who got to see a computer when all grown up and being able to make a livelihood using the gadgets not wanting the kids to be introduced to these gadgets is unfathomable.
Politics being a winner take it all in Africa poisons everything - church, families, businesses, academia, NGOs, you name it! I also think there is need to have some sort of 'term limits' for practicing lawyers. These fossils should mentor or let young guys do some lifting. We may need to do a golden handshake to the over 50s deadwood public service in areas like teaching and most public sector jobs. Most of the experience they have is bad experience.
Away from politics technologies work well for everybody. Sometimes, when clients don't have money or don't want to pay, they tell me that M-Pesa is 'down'.
-
I am struggling to understand this thread?
2013 - systems failed.
2017 - Systems worked.
Again unless you've tried to roll out tech stuff in an entire country as backward as kenya like IEBC or MPES and succeeded like they've done - you need a lot of KUDOS.
Small hitches here and there..are expected.
US of A under Obama rolled out 5B website for ObamaCare that failed :) on day one. That is damn website that cost 2 SGRS from Nairobi to MOmbasa and back - and it failed.
-
Heck! We need the toddlers to get all sort of gadgets. For people who got to see a computer when all grown up and being able to make a livelihood using the gadgets not wanting the kids to be introduced to these gadgets is unfathomable.
Unfathomable, eh? You've missed it again. By a couple of light years. Where did you get the idea that nobody wants kids to have the gadgets? I want all kids, everywhere, to have all things. But, first, I want to see them fed, healthy, clothed, sheltered, etc.
Let me try, again, and point out a few things.
Not too long ago, none other than His Excellency President U. Kenyatta sent an "urgent plea" to the "international community" for food for Kenyans. That---Kenyans begging for food---was "routine". Supposedly it was because rains had failed, as if it was the first time that had happened. Yet the annual spending on the laptops for toddlers far exceeds what goes in for all of irrigation and water for the entire country.
Something like 20-25% of Kenyan kids under five will suffer permanent damage (stunting) to their bodies and brains because of poor nutrition. Many more will not survive because of small, easily preventable diseases. Yet instead of focusing on feeding them and ensuring that they are healthy, it is gadgets that are considered a big deal. What kind of idiot buys his kids fancy gadgets and then goes off to beg to get them food?
Kenya talks about industrialization, but apparently that is to be done by people who have B.A.s in humanities from "universities" atop shopping malls. How do I know that? From noting that, for example, the spending on laptops for toddlers is three times what is being spent on TVET.
...
Are you starting to get the idea?
(http://www.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/916066/highRes/159214/-/maxw/600/-/q6kg9a/-/PIX4.jpg)
(http://www.un.org/africarenewal/sites/www.un.org.africarenewal/files/fees3.jpg)
-
You still persist with shockingly ignorant arguments. US of A has malnutrition problem. It also has obesity problem. Are you suggesting we stop everything and focus on that. What about the 75% of the kids who are okay? They wait until the poor families in this world are able to provide balance diet to their kids?
It doesn't work like that. GoK job is to juggle as many things as possible affecting 45M people. If in a year we reduce malnutrition by 1-2%; we have done great; We do the same for food insecurity; we done great (of course it would be long time before we stop begging); we do the same for all the other problems; child mortality; illeteracy; etc.
Look at China - as late as 2005 - China was begging for food - and that time it was developing rabidly, building cities and mega trains - but If I recall the UN was still financing school feeding there. In fact China around 2005 turned around from being beneficiary to donor.
And I know this first-hand - coz I saw China turn from UN beneficiary to UN donor.
http://www.wfp.org/node/534
In the same year it stopped receiving food aid from WFP, China emerged as the world’s third largest food aid donor in 2005, according to the latest annual Food Aid Monitor from INTERFAIS, the International Food Aid Information System
In short you can sacrifice or short-change 40M people to feed poor 5M people. Those people facing disaster like drought - deserve every help - just like victims of tsunami or katrina. It nothing to be ashamed of. Calling for international appeal when a country that depend on rain is hit by drought is NOT SHAMEFUL.
Unfathomable, eh? You've missed it again. By a couple of light years. First, where did you get the idea that nobody wants kids to have the gadgets? Let me try, again, and point out a few things.
Not too long ago, none other than His Excellency President U. Kenyatta sent an "urgent plea" to the "international community" for food for Kenyans. That---Kenyans begging for food---was "routine". Supposedly it was because rains had failed, as if it was the first time that had happened. Yet the annual spending on the laptops for toddlers far exceeds what goes in for all of irrigation and water for the entire country.
Something like 20-25% of Kenyan kids under five will suffer permanent damage (stunting) to their bodies and brains because of poor nutrition. Many more will not survive because of small, easily preventable diseases. Yet instead of focusing on feeding them and ensuring that they are healthy, it is gadgets that are considered a big deal. What kind of idiot buys his kids fancy gadgets and then goes off to beg to get them food?
Kenya talks about industrialization, but apparently that is to be done by people who have B.A.s in humanities from "universities" atop shopping malls. How do I know that? From noting that, for example, the spending on laptops for toddlers is three times what is being spent on TVET.
...
Are you starting to get the idea?
-
You still persist with shockingly ignorant argument. US of A has malnutrition problem. It also has obesity problem.
Is the USA begging for something as basic as food from anyone?
It doesn't work like that. GoK job is to juggle as many things as possible affecting 45M people. If in a year we reduce malnutrition by 1-2%; we have done great; We do the same for food insecurity; we done great (of course it would be long time before we stop begging); we do the same for all the other problems; child mortality; illeteracy; etc.
Do what exactly? Galana? :D
Calling for international appeal when a country that depend on rain is hit by drought is NOT SHAMEFUL.
On the face of it, no. But not when it happens again and again and again, with warnings given again and again and again ... without any lessons apparently being learned. Taxpayers in the countries that are always called upon to feed Kenya are getting tired of it .... asking, for example, why a country that cannot feed itself is still blowing money on laptops for toddlers, etc.
-
There are indicators that we use to measure progress - of malnutrition, food insecurity, name it. You quote the figures or graph showing we are doing badly and we can discuss. But to suggest that we should stop everything else and focus on 1 or 2 problems is to take a country for singleton simpleton. A Gov is a gov with varied and complicated needs. Of course we have priorities - maybe 1,000 priorities in each sector - but we must invest in Nuclear Technology (even if training 5 nuclear scientist) as much as we invest in Galana.
It also help to devolve GOK - because if you look at this country - there are many counties (majority) who've never had serious problem with food insecurity ( I am yet to see my eyes on yellow maize!!) - those have advanced and need laptops and such kind of stuff - then you have the turkanas or manderas - who need nutritional intervention.
Do what exactly? Galana? :D
-
The "systems" worked or failed depending on your side of the political equation. And this of course shows the true status of our economic progress specifically in tech. 80% 3G cover, 85% gridscape, 90% mobile penetration, regional IT hub... how could we bungle the elections yet again? We should be ashamed and disband the entire program in atonement. To replace it with IMF concoction :D
Oh, you did't mention the US (pillar of the “international community”) 2016 elections got hacked by Russia... and is still under all kinds of investigation - Senate, Special Counsel, FBI, name it... 10 months after. In fact Trump might be impeached 8)
I am struggling to understand this thread?
2013 - systems failed.
2017 - Systems worked.
Again unless you've tried to roll out tech stuff in an entire country as backward as kenya like IEBC or MPES and succeeded like they've done - you need a lot of KUDOS.
Small hitches here and there..are expected.
US of A under Obama rolled out 5B website for ObamaCare that failed :) on day one. That is damn website that cost 2 SGRS from Nairobi to MOmbasa and back - and it failed.
-
I am opposed to lap tops for government primary schools simply because we cannot afford it and it is really not that necessary for a good education. I'd rather the government introduce a lunch program for children so that they do not have to run home and back to eat during lunch time and come back hungry for the afternoon classes. I believe that from std. one to around std. 8, the government should concentrate its resources on basic fundamental education for all. I believe all children in Kenya are entitled to an education until at least 12 years of education. However in secondary education, the government can include laptops if they can afford it. Some of our most brilliant minds in computer today probably never interacted with computers until they reached university. Kenyan kids are already interacting with all kinds of computer based gadgets at a very early age privately and we do not need to take away monies that could be used to educate all children and to feed the children to introduce them to technology.
There are indicators that we use to measure progress - of malnutrition, food insecurity, name it. You quote the figures or graph showing we are doing badly and we can discuss. But to suggest that we should stop everything else and focus on 1 or 2 problems is to take a country for singleton simpleton. A Gov is a gov with varied and complicated needs. Of course we have priorities - maybe 1,000 priorities in each sector - but we must invest in Nuclear Technology (even if training 5 nuclear scientist) as much as we invest in Galana.
It also help to devolve GOK - because if you look at this country - there are many counties (majority) who've never had serious problem with food insecurity ( I am yet to see my eyes on yellow maize!!) - those have advanced and need laptops and such kind of stuff - then you have the turkanas or manderas - who need nutritional intervention.
Do what exactly? Galana? :D
-
Oh, you did't mention the US (pillar of the “international community”) 2016 elections got hacked by Russia... and is still under all kinds of investigation - Senate, Special Counsel, FBI, name it... 10 months after. In fact Trump might be impeached 8)
I would see that---external hacking---as a very different type of issue from the type that is being discussed in Kenya.
-
The only way to leapfrog in this world is to do the unthinkable. It to do visionary kind of stuff. Not the usual boring stuff. We all know the future world is TECHNOLOGY. Technology ran by Computer Chips. We have evidence from country like Estonia that in 1990s -as early as 1995 - made a bold bet and gave every kid a computer. Estonia then was just poor ex-colony of Russia. But look at Estonia now? And compare it to other Russian ex-colonies that followed the conventional way.
And if you're not convinced - look at M-pesa.
I am excited about this laptop problem - because it's visionary - it's bold. GoK should do "normal stuff" yes but should spare some money+time for experimental stuff. That is what companies do - they have small budget for R&D - to make bets on the future - and those bets when they pay off - really do pay OFF.
That is why we need to get visionary people like DR Bitange Ndemo in GOK policy circles - and have less and less of Dr Ndoom Ndii & Moonki here - tunnel vision folks who just see doom!. The guys 10 yrs ago were saying why do africans need a phone? why do poor starving turkana person need a smart phone for or a computer - give them food!
Most of countries in the world that suceeded - begin from Egypt ancient empire, spain, britain, US, china and name them - did the unthinkable - they dared to dream - they dared to have vision - and it paid off. Spain dared to dream about new world they had no idea. They had this crazy idea - and they found a whole continent America - and for 500 yrs Spain just sat back and brought all the GOLD in South America - and made merry. 500 yrs of merry - thanks to Colombus and Crazy Spain Kings who financed crazy expedition.
Out of nearly 200B plus education budget - we are taking a bet with 17B for kids to do the unthinkable in Africa or third world - getting each one of them a computer - what is 17B in kenya - that is little money that we can throw as R&D/Experimental policy.
MOi fed us with milk and we didn't go far. :D
I am opposed to lap tops for government primary schools simply because we cannot afford it and it is really not that necessary for a good education. I'd rather the government introduce a lunch program for children so that they do not have to run home and back to eat during lunch time and come back hungry for the afternoon classes. I believe that from std. one to around std. 8, the government should concentrate its resources on basic fundamental education for all. I believe all children in Kenya are entitled to an education until at least 12 years of education. However in secondary education, the government can include laptops if they can afford it. Some of our most brilliant minds in computer today probably never interacted with computers until they reached university. Kenyan kids are already interacting with all kinds of computer based gadgets at a very early age privately and we do not need to take away monies that could be used to educate all children and to feed the children to introduce them to technology.
-
I believe the unthinkable here is mass education for all Kenyan children for primary and secondary education. No child in Kenya should be out of school for any reason other than health until they are 18 years of age. My next emphasis on investment would be on vocational schools. We need plumbers, electricians, carpenters, farmers, nurses, masons, etc.
The only way to leapfrog in this world is to do the unthinkable. It to do visionary kind of stuff. Not the usual boring stuff. We all know the future world is TECHNOLOGY. Technology ran by Computer Chips. We have evidence from country like Estonia that in 1990s -as early as 1995 - made a bold bet and gave every kid a computer. Estonia then was just poor ex-colony of Russia. But look at Estonia now? And compare it to other Russian ex-colonies that followed the conventional way.
And if you're not convinced - look at M-pesa.
I am excited about this laptop problem - because it's visionary - it's bold. GoK should do "normal stuff" yes but should spare some money+time for experimental stuff. That is what companies do - they have small budget for R&D - to make bets on the future - and those bets when they pay off - really do pay OFF.
I am opposed to lap tops for government primary schools simply because we cannot afford it and it is really not that necessary for a good education. I'd rather the government introduce a lunch program for children so that they do not have to run home and back to eat during lunch time and come back hungry for the afternoon classes. I believe that from std. one to around std. 8, the government should concentrate its resources on basic fundamental education for all. I believe all children in Kenya are entitled to an education until at least 12 years of education. However in secondary education, the government can include laptops if they can afford it. Some of our most brilliant minds in computer today probably never interacted with computers until they reached university. Kenyan kids are already interacting with all kinds of computer based gadgets at a very early age privately and we do not need to take away monies that could be used to educate all children and to feed the children to introduce them to technology.
-
Countless countries including kenya have done that - nothing doing. The unthinkable thing is to give every kid laptops, lay fiber to every school and watch those kids in 18yrs.
I believe the unthinkable here is mass education for all Kenyan children for primary and secondary education. No child in Kenya should be out of school for any reason other than health until they are 18 years of age. My next emphasis on investment would be on vocational schools. We need plumbers, electricians, carpenters, farmers, nurses, masons, etc.
-
The only way to leapfrog in this world is to do the unthinkable. It to do visionary kind of stuff. Not the usual boring stuff. We all know the future world is TECHNOLOGY. Technology ran by Computer Chips. We have evidence from country like Estonia that in 1990s -as early as 1995 - made a bold bet and gave every kid a computer. Estonia then was just poor ex-colony of Russia. But look at Estonia now?
At the time, how were Estonian kids doing in terms of food, health, clothing, shelter, etc.?
And if you're not convinced - look at M-pesa.
A neat invention by the British.
-
Not any different from say Albania kids.
MPESA is not invention. It very simple App. Many had invented it, tried it and failed at it. In kenya it worked because kenyan (people, gok, safaricom) were visionary enough to experiment on it. Many countries have tried to copy it - but they are still far from kenya. That is the advantage that come with being visionary. Many tried to copy spain and made expedition to South America - but they found all the gold mines gone. They had to become poor farmers :). The same with those trying to compete with US in tech - it always a catch up.
Kenya has a chance here. These kids in 20yrs will be amongst the most sought after workers of 21st century.
At the time, how were Estonian kids doing in terms of food, health, clothing, shelter, etc.?
And if you're not convinced - look at M-pesa.
A neat invention by the British.
-
Not any different from say Albania kids.
That does not answer the question that I asked.
MPESA is not invention. It very simple App. Many had invented it, tried it and failed at it. In kenya it worked because kenyan (people, gok, safaricom) were visionary enough to experiment on it.
It is not an invention, but many had invented it. Pure Punditism! :D
Many countries have tried to copy it - but they are still far from kenya.
Name for us, say, five of the "many". Then we can take a look.
-
Not any different from say Albania kids.
That does not answer the question that I asked.
MPESA is not invention. It very simple App. Many had invented it, tried it and failed at it. In kenya it worked because kenyan (people, gok, safaricom) were visionary enough to experiment on it.
It is not an invention, but many had invented it. Pure Punditism! :D
MPESA worked more due to the environment (lack of adequate banking and by extension absence of electronic/card based transactions), and our kadogo culture ya kuomba omba. In the UK, the best way they have managed to sell it is by making it convenient to share a restaurant bill..proper first world problem. Even then it hasn't worked as the Brit is too polite to be honest.
-
We are in the usual hair-splitting territory. You need to learn that I don't do that kind of splitting of a thread. You get the gist of argument. You are just another Omollo. Learn from Kichwa here how to make arguments.
Not any different from say Albania kids.
That does not answer the question that I asked.
MPESA is not invention. It very simple App. Many had invented it, tried it and failed at it. In kenya it worked because kenyan (people, gok, safaricom) were visionary enough to experiment on it.
It is not an invention, but many had invented it. Pure Punditism! :D
Many countries have tried to copy it - but they are still far from kenya.
Name for us, say, five of the "many". Then we can take a look.
-
It worked because we were brave enough to experiment it. For a micro-dude - to trust it and send money. For Safaricom to try it. For GOK to allow it. And we had MJ - possibly one of the greatest technology marketer. If it wasn't for MJ leadership - GoK would long have pulled the plug on it.
MPESA worked more due to the environment (lack of adequate banking and by extension absence of electronic/card based transactions), and our kadogo culture ya kuomba omba. In the UK, the best way they have managed to sell it is by making it convenient to share a restaurant bill..proper first world problem.
-
I think Mpesa is not a measure of technological advancement. Mpesa is a technology that works for the Kenyan market because of all reasons that sociologists and economists can indulge in. I know Mpesa works for me in Kenya but I do not think I really need it in the USA. In the USA there is very little exchange of money between individuals. Most of the transactions in the USA is between individuals and businesses/businesses and business and there are all kinds of ways to do that easily without a system such as Mpesa.
Not any different from say Albania kids.
MPESA is not invention. It very simple App. Many had invented it, tried it and failed at it. In kenya it worked because kenyan (people, gok, safaricom) were visionary enough to experiment on it. Many countries have tried to copy it - but they are still far from kenya. That is the advantage that come with being visionary. Many tried to copy spain and made expedition to South America - but they found all the gold mines gone. They had to become poor farmers :). The same with those trying to compete with US in tech - it always a catch up.
Kenya has a chance here. These kids in 20yrs will be amongst the most sought after workers of 21st century.
At the time, how were Estonian kids doing in terms of food, health, clothing, shelter, etc.?
And if you're not convinced - look at M-pesa.
A neat invention by the British.
-
The point is Kenya is a leader of something - aside from althetics - it leader of mobile money - which basically does what your fancy systems in US of A does - it allows for p2p (person to person), c2b (customer to business), b2b(business to business) transactions for everyone - and it now undoubtedly one of world most busiest payment systems - processing tones of payment every second - and soon nearly the equivalent whole of Kenya GDP (70B dollars) is wired through it.
Laptop for kids - 1m laptops - is another bold move - that could potentially pay-off.
Otherwise booring ideas like school feeding - we have tried those - and it takes us to step 1 or 2 step ahead. We need something that like MPESA takes us from A straight to Z. From having really crapy financial systems to having one of world acknowledged most advanced payment system.
That is whole point - leapfrogging - through experimentation/R&D/Innovation/bold ideas.
I think Mpesa is not a measure of technological advancement. Mpesa is a technology that works for the Kenyan market because of all reasons that sociologists and economists can indulge in. I know Mpesa works for me in Kenya but I do not think I really need it in the USA. In the USA there is very little exchange of money between individuals. Most of the transactions in the USA is between individuals and businesses/businesses and business and there are all kinds of ways to do that easily without a system such as Mpesa.
-
Oh, you did't mention the US (pillar of the “international community”) 2016 elections got hacked by Russia... and is still under all kinds of investigation - Senate, Special Counsel, FBI, name it... 10 months after. In fact Trump might be impeached 8)
I would see that---external hacking---as a very different type of issue from the type that is being discussed in Kenya.
The global superpower had its democracy literally sabotaged by an opponent. Still you're not calling for the disbandment of her cybersecurity. Why? - cause you must spare that venom for Kenya.
-
The global superpower had its democracy literally sabotaged by an opponent. Still you're not calling for the disbandment of her cybersecurity. Why? - cause you must spare that venom for Kenya.
As I indicated, external hacking is very different from the type of issues that are being discussed in Kenya.
Second, I don't know about "democracy literally sabotaged"; I don't even know how you came to that conclusion, given that, as I understand it, a great deal is still under investigation. Regardless, I could be wrong, but I don't think that there are many Americans who take the view that Russian hacking really had much of an impact on the outcome of the elections.
Third, I have not called for Kenyans to disband their technological systems, not even for elections. I have merely suggested that they could, for example, make first sure that kids are fed and healthy, instead of buying them gadgets and then begging the rest of the world to feed them.
-
Development is a very complex concept - that can be simplified as chicken & egg. Which came first? Noone is suggesting stop feeding kids - Mwangi wa Iria is doing that for schools in Murang'a - but simultaneously invest in big things with huge potential. GoK has cash to spare and can afford 17B for that. Safaricom has started Innovation Lab at Karen headed by MIT/IBM alumnus - I forget his name - and is a shareholder in iHub. Equity had the equivalent of R&D to upstage M-pesa with Equitel. Dying cows like KQ probably have nothing like research team o board and rely on the "sensible" and "normal". Even at individuals level - with disposable income - you should throw some $$ into Bitcoin and such unicorns - and forget about it - it could just explode.
-
Development is a very complex concept - that can be simplified as chicken & egg. Which came first?
If you care to give us examples of countries that have managed to really develop without first being able to feed themselves, then we could perhaps discuss successful examples of the "Kenyan model".
GoK has cash to spare and can afford 17B for that.
Cash to spare? The idea of a country like Kenya having cash to spare is quite amusing. And if it does indeed have cash to spare, why is it not going to ensuring food security, health, etc?
Safaricom has started Innovation Lab at Karen headed by MIT/IBM alumnus - I forget his name - and is a shareholder in iHub. Equity had the equivalent of R&D to upstage M-pesa with Equitel.
Sounds great, and I'm all for such things.
-
Development is a very complex concept - that can be simplified as chicken & egg. Which came first?
If you care to give us examples of countries that have managed to really develop without first being able to feed themselves, then we could perhaps discuss successful examples of the "Kenyan model".
China & Estonia. Chicken and egg - nutrition and leapfrogging programs are not mutually exclusive and are in fact complimentary.
GoK has cash to spare and can afford 17B for that.
Cash to spare? The idea of a country like Kenya having cash to spare is quite amusing. And if it does indeed have cash to spare, why is it not going to ensuring food security, health, etc?
With 2.2T budget GoK can spare 17B - about 1% - for digital R&D... can you spot the point somewhere?
-
I am opposed to lap tops for government primary schools simply because we cannot afford it and it is really not that necessary for a good education. I'd rather the government introduce a lunch program for children so that they do not have to run home and back to eat during lunch time and come back hungry for the afternoon classes. I believe that from std. one to around std. 8, the government should concentrate its resources on basic fundamental education for all. I believe all children in Kenya are entitled to an education until at least 12 years of education. However in secondary education, the government can include laptops if they can afford it. Some of our most brilliant minds in computer today probably never interacted with computers until they reached university. Kenyan kids are already interacting with all kinds of computer based gadgets at a very early age privately and we do not need to take away monies that could be used to educate all children and to feed the children to introduce them to technology.
There are indicators that we use to measure progress - of malnutrition, food insecurity, name it. You quote the figures or graph showing we are doing badly and we can discuss. But to suggest that we should stop everything else and focus on 1 or 2 problems is to take a country for singleton simpleton. A Gov is a gov with varied and complicated needs. Of course we have priorities - maybe 1,000 priorities in each sector - but we must invest in Nuclear Technology (even if training 5 nuclear scientist) as much as we invest in Galana.
It also help to devolve GOK - because if you look at this country - there are many counties (majority) who've never had serious problem with food insecurity ( I am yet to see my eyes on yellow maize!!) - those have advanced and need laptops and such kind of stuff - then you have the turkanas or manderas - who need nutritional intervention.
Do what exactly? Galana?
If you have good basic education, you will not have problems if you want to delve into computers/technology what have you. If I see a good argument that laptops will improve basic education, and are the best options available, I have no problem with it. I am still waiting for that argument.
-
China & Estonia. Chicken and egg - nutrition and leapfrogging programs are not mutually exclusive and are in fact complimentary.
I did not say they were mutually exclusive. As to what might go before what, one has to look at the dates. Taking just China. Its modern development is largely in the last 20 years. Now, take a look at the periods during which it underwent major agricultural reforms: the years fall in 1978-1997. And simply looking at "food aid" doesn't help without also looking at exactly where the food was going, why, and in what quantities. Officially, China was receiving food aid from the WFP until around 2004-2005. How much food aid and to what end? More importantly, take a look at where in 2005 China ranked in the world as a donor of food. (If you look at USAID's budget, you will notice that even in 2017 China still receives "aid" from the USA, but I wouldn't really get excited over such facts without taking a closer look.)
We could also look into Estonia, and especially where it was with respect to things like food in the mid-late 90s, but I'll skip that for now. That's a country with a population of around 1.3 million. One-point-three million. A part of Nairobi. Why anyone would think that a European country with a population of 1.3 million might provide a good model of development for an African country with a population of 48 million is beyond me.
With 2.2T budget GoK can spare 17B - about 1% - for digital R&D... can you spot the point somewhere?
It's not just the percentages; the raw numbers also matter. One person is struggling to feed himself and has only 100 shillings. Another person is living it up and has 1 billion shillings. The significance of 1%, in terms of basic welfare, will be very different for the two.
In any case, my question has not been answered: why is a country with "cash to spare", as you put it, going around always begging for food.
-
Hair splitting.Ohoo this is small country.Like Burundi is any better.
-
Hair splitting.Ohoo this is small country.Like Burundi is any better.
Yes, indeedy! But it's one heck of a thick hair, I think. Needs a proper axe. :D
And Burundi is relevant how? Because it is small? Two quick ones: (1) models that can be scaled; (2) the advantages of being in the middle of Europe vs. some place in Africa.
Still, I'll humour you and give you one on Estonia: You wrote that
country like Estonia that in 1990s -as early as 1995 - made a bold bet and gave every kid a computer.
1995. Some date.
Up there, I asked:
At the time, how were Estonian kids doing in terms of food, health, clothing, shelter, etc.?
And you also wrote that
MOi fed us with milk and we didn't go far ... Otherwise booring ideas like school feeding - we have tried those
The Estonians did get to the milk, with the establishment of a "School Milk Project" ... around 2001. Before that, in 1995!, the government had issued a "Public Health Recommendations for Dietary Services", with a part that primary and nursery schools had to follow in regard to the nutritional needs of their wards. ("Regulation on health protection requirements and nutrition in catering facilities in pre-school institutions and schools. Ministry of Social Affairs, Estonia".)
So, even if one accepts the strange notion of Estonia as a model for a highly-populated, hungry African country, there is little there to suggest that starving, unhealthy kids will do the nation much good just because they can wield a laptop.
-
Hair splitting.Ohoo this is small country.Like Burundi is any better.
Yes, indeedy! But it's one heck of a thick hair, I think. Needs a proper axe. :D
And Burundi is relevant how? Because it is small? Two quick ones: (1) models that can be scaled; (2) the advantages of being in the middle of Europe vs. some place in Africa.
Still, I'll humour you and give you one on Estonia: You wrote that
country like Estonia that in 1990s -as early as 1995 - made a bold bet and gave every kid a computer.
1995. Some date.
Up there, I asked:
At the time, how were Estonian kids doing in terms of food, health, clothing, shelter, etc.?
And you also wrote that
MOi fed us with milk and we didn't go far ... Otherwise booring ideas like school feeding - we have tried those
The Estonians did get to the milk, with the establishment of a "School Milk Project" ... around 2001. Before that, in 1995!, the government had issued a "Public Health Recommendations for Dietary Services", with a part that primary and nursery schools had to follow in regard to the nutritional needs of their wards. ("Regulation on health protection requirements and nutrition in catering facilities in pre-school institutions and schools. Ministry of Social Affairs, Estonia".)
So, even if one accepts the strange notion of Estonia as a model for a highly-populated, hungry African country, there is little there to suggest that starving, unhealthy kids will do the nation much good just because they can wield a laptop.
Not only are these kids hungry, but often times they're are studying al fresco. Those laptops better be weatherproof and hard wearing.
-
These are the same looping arguments that you come here to express. Kenya education systems is already not bad - quality wise (you can check ranking by wakina World Economic Forum)- it's competing with middle-income countries - In Africa - when PISA test have been attempted - it came either no 1 or 2 to Mauritius - beating even South Africa.
And Kenya GoK already do most of what you're talking about - there is long running school feeding programme now ran exclusively by ministry of education for kids in arid and semi-arid places- there is de-worming for kids nationally - there is some work being done on infrastructure through CDF and model schools - etc.
And then there is laptop project which is the most exciting. Estonia started it and proved it works. Kenya is doing it and we shall see if it works.
While you're splitting hairs - Estonia has moved to next stage - teaching class 1 kids programming :) and here you're arguing about us teaching them basic computing.
Hair splitting.Ohoo this is small country.Like Burundi is any better.
Yes, indeedy! But it's one heck of a thick hair, I think. Needs a proper axe. :D
And Burundi is relevant how? Because it is small? Two quick ones: (1) models that can be scaled; (2) the advantages of being in the middle of Europe vs. some place in Africa.
Still, I'll humour you and give you one on Estonia: You wrote that
country like Estonia that in 1990s -as early as 1995 - made a bold bet and gave every kid a computer.
1995. Some date.
Up there, I asked:
At the time, how were Estonian kids doing in terms of food, health, clothing, shelter, etc.?
And you also wrote that
MOi fed us with milk and we didn't go far ... Otherwise booring ideas like school feeding - we have tried those
The Estonians did get to the milk, with the establishment of a "School Milk Project" ... around 2001. Before that, in 1995!, the government had issued a "Public Health Recommendations for Dietary Services", with a part that primary and nursery schools had to follow in regard to the nutritional needs of their wards. ("Regulation on health protection requirements and nutrition in catering facilities in pre-school institutions and schools. Ministry of Social Affairs, Estonia".)
So, even if one accepts the strange notion of Estonia as a model for a highly-populated, hungry African country, there is little there to suggest that starving, unhealthy kids will do the nation much good just because they can wield a laptop.
-
I've heard the same arguments against Thika Road. I think it was Ndii who argued that the 40B (38B to be precise) for 40KM could have been better used to dual Mombasa-Nairobi highway.
There will all ways be opportunity cost for everything,and I think that's where Ndii thrives; painting the alternative as more novel and better. The alternatives of course will never be experimented so nobody ever gets to know whether they would work.
-
Precisely nailed.
I've heard the same arguments against Thika Road. I think it was Ndii who argued that the 40B (38B to be precise) for 40KM could have been better used to dual Mombasa-Nairobi highway.
There will all ways be opportunity cost for everything,and I think that's where Ndii thrives; painting the alternative as more novel and better. The alternatives of course will never be experimented so nobody ever gets to know whether they would work.
-
MOON Ki is a funny dude. He believes we must be analog - 1.Reform agriculture & achieve food security 2.Feed kids 3.Fix public health... 300.xyz... 1000.Go digital
He says we cannot follow Estonian example because it is tiny and in Europe... he however wants us to start with food security like the same Estonia :D
Right now Estonia has one of the best per capita income in Eastern Europe, highest productivity (higher despite Russia's more grads per capita). Biggest ICT-dominated services sector in EE. All these are significantly attributed to the laptop-for-toddlers pogramme.
These are the same looping arguments that you come here to express. Kenya education systems is already not bad - quality wise (you can check ranking by wakina World Economic Forum)- it's competing with middle-income countries - In Africa - when PISA test have been attempted - it came either no 1 or 2 to Mauritius - beating even South Africa.
And Kenya GoK already do most of what you're talking about - there is long running school feeding programme now ran exclusively by ministry of education for kids in arid and semi-arid places- there is de-worming for kids nationally - there is some work being done on infrastructure through CDF and model schools - etc.
And then there is laptop project which is the most exciting. Estonia started it and proved it works. Kenya is doing it and we shall see if it works.
While you're splitting hairs - Estonia has moved to next stage - teaching class 1 kids programming :) and here you're arguing about us teaching them basic computing.
Hair splitting.Ohoo this is small country.Like Burundi is any better.
Yes, indeedy! But it's one heck of a thick hair, I think. Needs a proper axe. :D
And Burundi is relevant how? Because it is small? Two quick ones: (1) models that can be scaled; (2) the advantages of being in the middle of Europe vs. some place in Africa.
Still, I'll humour you and give you one on Estonia: You wrote that
country like Estonia that in 1990s -as early as 1995 - made a bold bet and gave every kid a computer.
1995. Some date.
Up there, I asked:
At the time, how were Estonian kids doing in terms of food, health, clothing, shelter, etc.?
And you also wrote that
MOi fed us with milk and we didn't go far ... Otherwise booring ideas like school feeding - we have tried those
The Estonians did get to the milk, with the establishment of a "School Milk Project" ... around 2001. Before that, in 1995!, the government had issued a "Public Health Recommendations for Dietary Services", with a part that primary and nursery schools had to follow in regard to the nutritional needs of their wards. ("Regulation on health protection requirements and nutrition in catering facilities in pre-school institutions and schools. Ministry of Social Affairs, Estonia".)
So, even if one accepts the strange notion of Estonia as a model for a highly-populated, hungry African country, there is little there to suggest that starving, unhealthy kids will do the nation much good just because they can wield a laptop.
-
What kenyan kids need is dietary supplements? 1/8 of the kids have stunted growth due to poor nutrition. Next what GOK needs to do is deworm every kid. Most of Kenyan kids have parasites in their stomachs. Minyoo. in Ukambani NGOs spend the first week of school deworming these little buggers. Next Kenya should do the old fashioned teaching. Improve reading levels and maths. Next Kenya should establish specialized programs such as STEM. Next Kenya should invest in upgrading school infrastructure.. Next Kenya should subsidize school shoes and uniforms..
Technology should be the last need
-
completely agree. The government should spend its money on the basics. Kids will pick up on technology outside the classroom very quickly when they are healthy and well grounded in the fundamentals of education.
What kenyan kids need is dietary supplements? 1/8 of the kids have stunted growth due to poor nutrition. Next what GOK needs to do is deworm every kid. Most of Kenyan kids have parasites in their stomachs. Minyoo. in Ukambani NGOs spend the first week of school deworming these little buggers. Next Kenya should do the old fashioned teaching. Improve reading levels and maths. Next Kenya should establish specialized programs such as STEM. Next Kenya should invest in upgrading school infrastructure.. Next Kenya should subsidize school shoes and uniforms..
Technology should be the last need