http://www.nation.co.ke/counties/nairobi/Matatu-crew-strip-woman-case/1954174-4021598-8ixk18z/index.html
I am anti death penalty but I am very satisfied with the zero tolerance shown to this ujinga by the court. I also know that in Kenya capital punishment only exists in books. Wacha iwe onyo! Now if we can sentence proud witch and thief linchers to death too, we might start to curb some of our barbarism. In Kenya, we stopped hanging people in the 80s.
Good precedent here seeing far too many victims of sexual assault never get justice. A positive side of social media and smart phones age I guess.Its good to see a man share the same sentiments. :) I'm beginning to think nipate folk missed that video of the attack and so are inclined to trivialize the suffering these jamaz put that lady through for no bloody reason. Besides, no one gets hanged in Kenya anymore but the precedent set here may deter some of those idlers who've made a habit of this in the country.
Good precedent here seeing far too many victims of sexual assault never get justice. A positive side of social media and smart phones age I guess.
Its good to see a man share the same sentiments. :) I'm beginning to think nipate folk missed that video of the attack and so are inclined to trivialize the suffering these jamaz put that lady through for no bloody reason. Besides, no one gets hanged in Kenya anymore but the precedent set here may deter some of those idlers who've made a habit of this in the country.
On another note, if it was normal robbery without what they did, the judge may have probably found a way to sentence for just "robbery" which if I remember correctly is 14 years but what they did does not incline one to mercy so he let the "robbery with violence" charge stick (which isn't very different from ordinary robbery thanks to the sloppy drafting of whoever our parliament hired to draft those sections that supposedly speak of two different offences).
She also testified that they had also tried to rape her but she lied that she was H.I.V + and that was the only reason they didnt proceed. And for me, the public humiliation, gang attacks, sexual assault and video shared to the whole world on top of that: how can someone recover?? No. Let the fear of God be put into all those idlers who contemplate this. Hiyo tu.
I think you guys are treating this like its something small. What this guys did was even worse than rape, in my view, which is 35 to life.
Some crimes display a certain kind of cruelty and disregard for the humanity of others that they simply should be treated as seriously as murder. This is one. If they had just committed ordinary assault, Id feel differently. But no. They wanted to make her suffer as much as possible. I dont see how they are different from someone who commits torture and the victim doesnt die. I would still want them serving the ultimate sentence which in Kenya is in reality life.
I can only see aggravating circumstances here, zero mitigation. They attacked the girl for no reason and then took it to inhuman levels. Pundit, please watch that video, how on earth can you say 1 or 2 years is enough? Do you think that woman will ever recover from being publicly stripped, had fingers and apparently a bottle inserted in her by filthy kanges she didnt even know, had it all recorded and shared with the world? She was begging for mercy and they had none to show her. 1 and 2 years....my God. A petty thief gets punished more severely. But how? Worse than a gang that attacks someone this way unprovoked???? I have to assume you havent looked at that video or heard the horrific details of the inhumanity these guys did. Hiyo tu.
These guys got what they deserve - death for robbery with violence and 25 years for gang sexual assault. The death sentence is not meant for the sexual assault but the robbery. What I do get in Kenya is disproportionate punishment of men compared to women. Like those Nyeri dick-severers never got anything like 25 years yet their acts were equally barbaric.I agree. There should be zero tolerance for barbarism. Hiyo tu. Severing someone's genitalia should not be treated like ordinary assault. I mean there is normal vita and then there is barbarism. People who do stuff like this should not be shown leniency. They have no respect for the humanity of others.
Am with Pundit on thIs one. This cheapens the death penalty and nearly equates it with slaughtering a chicken.
Human life should be taken only in exceptional circumstances. I would like to see the maximum sentence for robbery with violence brought down to 21 years where there is a death.
The death penalty should be removed from the books except for treason and spying.
There must be automatic and fully paid for appeals by an advocate of the appellants' choice. Only when all appeals have been exhausted including that of clemency would a hangman swing into action.
This idea of sentencing street urchins with bad manners who would reform with 3 years of hard labour is silly. The whole robbery charge must be reviewed. A street urchin snatching a phone even if he threatens you with shit in a stocking cannot be robbery as we know it.
There should be an assault weapon. The objective and intention of robbery must overwhelmingly proven. A value must be attached to the goods say minimum 20,000 (my subjective suggestion).
Otherwise we shall waste time on frivolous cases involving street urchins who should be helped abd rehabilitated as smooth operators rape, traffic and kill women right under our own noses.
I haven't seen the video. But I lean on severe punishment including castration and stuffing genitalia in the mouth before beheading, for sexual offenses. If the person says no, it means no, even if you are still free to work other legitimate ways to get them to change their mind.
Regardless of how you spin it, this is not capital punishment material. As Pundit said, this should be a five to six year sentence, even less. You can throw in hard labor and some kind gender sensitive education but definitely not capital punishment or any sentencing beyond five years. Hopefully this sentence will be overturned on appeal. You cannot cure injustice with injustice. Even outrage has to be proportional. In the US they have very detailed guidelines for sentencing except in drug cases which the legislature interfered with and resulted into ridiculously unfair racially charged and emotional sentencing. Obama tried to roll them back, Hilary campaigned tto follow Obama's Nyayo then Trump happened.
I haven't seen the video. But I lean on severe punishment including castration and stuffing genitalia in the mouth before beheading, for sexual offenses. If the person says no, it means no, even if you are still free to work other legitimate ways to get them to change their mind.Thank you! There is a tendency to trivialize sexual assault among a lot of guys, I don't get it. Just imagine its a bunch of guys doing this to a guy you know, stripping him naked and doing stuff to his private bits in public including inserting things while he screams and begs to be left alone, video taping it and sharing it. Mercy here belongs with the victim. This to me was beyond even rape which is bad enough. Its closer to torture. No sympathy for those guys. I felt the same about the American woman who participated in the torture of a man though not his killing and now mascarades as a feminist activist. It takes a special kind of person to do that kind of thing.
You sound like you never dated - in Africa - where Yes mean No - and No mean Yes - if we enforce you law - we will end up looking up so many people - like the robbery with violence thing. Majority of robberies must happen with some level of violence.I haven't seen the video. But I lean on severe punishment including castration and stuffing genitalia in the mouth before beheading, for sexual offenses. If the person says no, it means no, even if you are still free to work other legitimate ways to get them to change their mind.
This sentence is appropriate - gang sexual assault is a really barbaric act. The only thing world over is that sexual laws are disproportionately applied on men and women showed leniency. I am sure Windy Assassin said no such thing as torturing the culprits during the Nyeri madness. As a woman I find that condescending and hypocritical. Even that masquerading feminist in the US Kadame5 mentions is still enjoying impunity. The law should be applied uniformly.
This sentence is appropriate - gang sexual assault is a really barbaric act. The only thing world over is that sexual laws are disproportionately applied on men and women showed leniency. I am sure Windy Assassin said no such thing as torturing the culprits during the Nyeri madness. As a woman I find that condescending and hypocritical. Even that masquerading feminist in the US Kadame5 mentions is still enjoying impunity. The law should be applied uniformly.To be fair, she got the same sentence as the other perps, including the men who killed the guy. She did 25 in prison. I was disgusted that someone felt she was a good spokesman for women in the women march against Trump.
I don't know about our penal code but robbery with violence accompanied by bodily harm has a death sentence if I'm not mistaken.
What's the problem here, some feel robbery with violence deserves something less than death?
This is not the first case death is handed on robbery with violence.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/lifestyle/article/2001227884/three-sentenced-to-death-for-robbery-with-violence-in-meru
I think the sexual assault made the robbery more repulsive and provoked outrage
This sentence is appropriate - gang sexual assault is a really barbaric act.Gang + public+ taping n sharing: triply aggravating the already grave sexual assault. To them she was not a person with feelings; just a toy. :(
I have addressed the death sentence so let me deal with the Sexual Violence bit.
If you hand out 25 years (4 years more than most European countries would give for the most serious violation on the books) what would you give for more serious sexual offences.
Feminists should chill a bit and begin exploring other ways of addressing the problems of today as far as the treatment of women goes. Feminists in Kenya have pursued an absolutist and extremist agenda in seeking to protect the Rights of the woman. This will in the long run backfire as we have seen when men have been battered by women and FIDA defends the perpetrators.
Like KM writes, there are smart ways of sentencing that take into consideration the rehabilitation of the offender and the general good of the society. If you make simple sexual assault a life sentence offence (21 years is recognized in many European countries as equal to a life imprisonment) you inadvertently make future crimes even more brutal. The perpetrator knows if he is caught he will pay with a life sentence and therefore sets about destroying evidence starting with the victim!
Issues between men and women are complex. Like Pundit writes, a No in Africa is not the same as a NO in the West. No woman respecting herself would say yes in Africa - and I have been around! A lot! There is no and the mandatory "struggle" and resistance even "outrage" but a smile and so on after.
Gang + public+ taping n sharing: triply aggravating the already grave sexual assault. To them she was not a person with feelings; just a toy. :(
But they didn't kill her - I haven't watched the video or the facts of the case - but for me - they can only be sentenced to life imprisonment or death sentence if they killed the victim. 10-15yrs in prison is perhaps even too much. Tom Chomoldgey killed 2 people and he got 3yrs.Robbery with violence attracts death penalty. Whether it's excessive or not is anotherGang + public+ taping n sharing: triply aggravating the already grave sexual assault. To them she was not a person with feelings; just a toy. :(
I have addressed the death sentence so let me deal with the Sexual Violence bit.:o :o :oYou guys have got to be kidding. A no in Kenya is a NO!!!!!!....Jesus Christ! Pundit and Omollo, we invite you to join us in 2017 tafadhalini.
If you hand out 25 years (4 years more than most European countries would give for the most serious violation on the books) what would you give for more serious sexual offences.
Feminists should chill a bit and begin exploring other ways of addressing the problems of today as far as the treatment of women goes. Feminists in Kenya have pursued an absolutist and extremist agenda in seeking to protect the Rights of the woman. This will in the long run backfire as we have seen when men have been battered by women and FIDA defends the perpetrators.
Like KM writes, there are smart ways of sentencing that take into consideration the rehabilitation of the offender and the general good of the society. If you make simple sexual assault a life sentence offence (21 years is recognized in many European countries as equal to a life imprisonment) you inadvertently make future crimes even more brutal. The perpetrator knows if he is caught he will pay with a life sentence and therefore sets about destroying evidence starting with the victim!
Issues between men and women are complex. Like Pundit writes, a No in Africa is not the same as a NO in the West. No woman respecting herself would say yes in Africa - and I have been around! A lot! There is no and the mandatory "struggle" and resistance even "outrage" but a smile and so on after.I don't know about our penal code but robbery with violence accompanied by bodily harm has a death sentence if I'm not mistaken.
What's the problem here, some feel robbery with violence deserves something less than death?
This is not the first case death is handed on robbery with violence.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/lifestyle/article/2001227884/three-sentenced-to-death-for-robbery-with-violence-in-meru
I think the sexual assault made the robbery more repulsive and provoked outrage
I have addressed the death sentence so let me deal with the Sexual Violence bit.
If you hand out 25 years (4 years more than most European countries would give for the most serious violation on the books) what would you give for more serious sexual offences.
Feminists should chill a bit and begin exploring other ways of addressing the problems of today as far as the treatment of women goes. Feminists in Kenya have pursued an absolutist and extremist agenda in seeking to protect the Rights of the woman. This will in the long run backfire as we have seen when men have been battered by women and FIDA defends the perpetrators.
Like KM writes, there are smart ways of sentencing that take into consideration the rehabilitation of the offender and the general good of the society. If you make simple sexual assault a life sentence offence (21 years is recognized in many European countries as equal to a life imprisonment) you inadvertently make future crimes even more brutal. The perpetrator knows if he is caught he will pay with a life sentence and therefore sets about destroying evidence starting with the victim!
Issues between men and women are complex. Like Pundit writes, a No in Africa is not the same as a NO in the West. No woman respecting herself would say yes in Africa - and I have been around! A lot! There is no and the mandatory "struggle" and resistance even "outrage" but a smile and so on after.
But they didn't kill her - I haven't watched the video or the facts of the case - but for me - they can only be sentenced to life imprisonment or death sentence if they killed the victim. 10-15yrs in prison is perhaps even too much. Tom Chomoldgey killed 2 people and he got 3yrs.He argued successfully that he was acting in what he thought was self-defence and then that he thought he killed a wild animal, that he thought he was in danger. What danger do you think these thugs believed they were facing from the girl? Or perhaps it was so dark they thought she was a goat?????Gang + public+ taping n sharing: triply aggravating the already grave sexual assault. To them she was not a person with feelings; just a toy. :(
Robbery with violence attracts death penalty. Whether it's excessive or not is another
Omollo, Pundit,
When I say she has to say yes, I don't mean it has to be a literal yes. Consent is something that can be demonstrated in many ways. But a definite no is usually not ambiguous. I haven't seen the video, but I doubt the lady wanted it.
This is NOT a feminist issue. It is a humanist issue. Civility. I don"t even like militant feminists.
Good points. Laws on sexual assault should ideally follow international norms, say US laws, where more rationality rules. I find the FIDA feminist approach quite shortsighted. Men, when they are not trying to impress, will tell you their disdain of feminist double standards. We need men to develop a happy sustainable safe environment. Otherwise the next time you have PEV the aggrieved men will see it as revenge season.
Human relations are complex, so I do not just blame feminists. These irrational laws were passed by male MPs and signed by a male president. It is a problem for the whole society to solve.I have addressed the death sentence so let me deal with the Sexual Violence bit.
If you hand out 25 years (4 years more than most European countries would give for the most serious violation on the books) what would you give for more serious sexual offences.
Feminists should chill a bit and begin exploring other ways of addressing the problems of today as far as the treatment of women goes. Feminists in Kenya have pursued an absolutist and extremist agenda in seeking to protect the Rights of the woman. This will in the long run backfire as we have seen when men have been battered by women and FIDA defends the perpetrators.
Like KM writes, there are smart ways of sentencing that take into consideration the rehabilitation of the offender and the general good of the society. If you make simple sexual assault a life sentence offence (21 years is recognized in many European countries as equal to a life imprisonment) you inadvertently make future crimes even more brutal. The perpetrator knows if he is caught he will pay with a life sentence and therefore sets about destroying evidence starting with the victim!
Issues between men and women are complex. Like Pundit writes, a No in Africa is not the same as a NO in the West. No woman respecting herself would say yes in Africa - and I have been around! A lot! There is no and the mandatory "struggle" and resistance even "outrage" but a smile and so on after.
He argued successfully that he was acting in what he thought was self-defence and then that he thought he killed a wild animal, that he thought he was in danger. What danger do you think these thugs believed they were facing from the girl? Or perhaps it was so dark they thought she was a goat?????
Good points. Laws on sexual assault should ideally follow international norms, say US laws, where more rationality rules. I find the FIDA feminist approach quite shortsighted. Men, when they are not trying to impress, will tell you their disdain of feminist double standards. We need men to develop a happy sustainable safe environment. Otherwise the next time you have PEV the aggrieved men will see it as revenge season.
Human relations are complex, so I do not just blame feminists. These irrational laws were passed by male MPs and signed by a male president. It is a problem for the whole society to solve.I have addressed the death sentence so let me deal with the Sexual Violence bit.
If you hand out 25 years (4 years more than most European countries would give for the most serious violation on the books) what would you give for more serious sexual offences.
Feminists should chill a bit and begin exploring other ways of addressing the problems of today as far as the treatment of women goes. Feminists in Kenya have pursued an absolutist and extremist agenda in seeking to protect the Rights of the woman. This will in the long run backfire as we have seen when men have been battered by women and FIDA defends the perpetrators.
Like KM writes, there are smart ways of sentencing that take into consideration the rehabilitation of the offender and the general good of the society. If you make simple sexual assault a life sentence offence (21 years is recognized in many European countries as equal to a life imprisonment) you inadvertently make future crimes even more brutal. The perpetrator knows if he is caught he will pay with a life sentence and therefore sets about destroying evidence starting with the victim!
Issues between men and women are complex. Like Pundit writes, a No in Africa is not the same as a NO in the West. No woman respecting herself would say yes in Africa - and I have been around! A lot! There is no and the mandatory "struggle" and resistance even "outrage" but a smile and so on after.
The death penalty is for robbery with violence which is a capital offence in Kenya. They got 25 for the sexual assault.
That said, I feel NOTHING for these barbarians. They stripped a woman in public and proceeded to do unspeakable things to her genitals in full view of the public and a video camera. Honestly reminded me of the pogroms that jews were made to suffer before the "final solution" for them was discovered. What happened to that lady was more than even rape. Things like gang rape and rape of small children and this kind of attempt to utterly dehumanize someone like what they did to her ought to receive the WORST punishment a society can mete out, on par with murder.
He argued successfully that he was acting in what he thought was self-defence and then that he thought he killed a wild animal, that he thought he was in danger. What danger do you think these thugs believed they were facing from the girl? Or perhaps it was so dark they thought she was a goat?????
Omollo, Pundit,
When I say she has to say yes, I don't mean it has to be a literal yes. Consent is something that can be demonstrated in many ways. But a definite no is usually not ambiguous. I haven't seen the video, but I doubt the lady wanted it.
You're right Termie,
There was this Meru MP who was sued for rape by his acquaintance. She claimed that before rape she was subjected to a forced HIV test. Looking at it, the circumstances suggested otherwise. Him, her, 2AM in his office bla bla
I don't think 3 people can act just like dogs - they were some provocation - obviously from girl - maybe she was prostitute or something - maybe they were all drunks -maybe they were acting on group physiology - whatever they did deserve severe punishment but not death sentence. They have already suffered 3 yrs in prison. I am sure they deeply regret this now. I'd would have given them 5yrs - which is enough time to get the .arse ripped apart in prison. Prison is no picnic.There was no provocation, please dont blame the victim. They disliked her dressing and tried to papasa her behind and she objected then they pounced like dogs. Rejection is NOT provocation.He argued successfully that he was acting in what he thought was self-defence and then that he thought he killed a wild animal, that he thought he was in danger. What danger do you think these thugs believed they were facing from the girl? Or perhaps it was so dark they thought she was a goat?????
Much as I have no problem with the sentence given the heinous act,I think robbery was circumstantial and the courts harped on it to assuage public wrath.Exactly!
I meant while I understand the issue of consent being verbal or otherwise, that particular case is far less clear than this one.Omollo, Pundit,
When I say she has to say yes, I don't mean it has to be a literal yes. Consent is something that can be demonstrated in many ways. But a definite no is usually not ambiguous. I haven't seen the video, but I doubt the lady wanted it.
You're right Termie,
There was this Meru MP who was sued for rape by his acquaintance. She claimed that before rape she was subjected to a forced HIV test. Looking at it, the circumstances suggested otherwise. Him, her, 2AM in his office bla bla
Yep. Though some people push it to a point where the line between consent and helplessly giving up is too thin.
I think when one party exercises disproportionate power, it could still be rape even if she agreed. This MP could have kept her in the office until it was too late for her to safely leave by herself.
To be fair, she got the same sentence as the other perps, including the men who killed the guy. She did 25 in prison. I was disgusted that someone felt she was a good spokesman for women in the women march against Trump.
Given that I don't know about the Nyeri madness, that might explain my silence. That said, I have seen a story of a man being gang raped in Zimbabwe. I thought that was funny. Just keeping it honest.
Much as I have no problem with the sentence given the heinous act,I think robbery was circumstantial and the courts harped on it to assuage public wrath.Thats exactly what happened.
Capone went down for relatively petty crime/offense not organized crime
Woman who tricked friend into sex with 'fake penis' is jailed https://t.co/zGxCKdaW1p pic.twitter.com/pQqlbnSscQ
— The Mirror (@DailyMirror) July 20, 2017
She served the full 25 years and she did not actively torturw the man. She was part of the "audience", witnessed it happen for two weeks, paid to watch the rapes in fact and watch the guy when he wasnt being tortured and she did not report it. I just think you have to be one cold individual to do that and was disgusted that she is now held up as an invited speaker for women. She should not speak anywhere ever. Hiyo tu.To be fair, she got the same sentence as the other perps, including the men who killed the guy. She did 25 in prison. I was disgusted that someone felt she was a good spokesman for women in the women march against Trump.
Is she in the sex offenders register? Did she serve the 25 years? A male sex offender would not get such a pass.
Kadame,You are arguing it is discriminatory. This is not the same as irrational. The cure to discrimination is ammend the law to apply equally, to catch those who are out of the net. Its not to complain about those bad seeds who are already caught. I want a caught bully punished. I dont want to go easy on one bully just because another gets away with it.
Kenya's Sexual Offences Act is irrational especially it's feminized application. It's probably the harshest in Sub Sahara. Most of the barbaric acts women are doing to men pass with impunity or are not even viewed as sexual assault. How many stories do you read of women raping men - how many headlines do you read of women jailed for 25 years? The clause on punishment for false evidence was also deleted which makes it worse.
Please separate the law from the current case which I think is appropriately handled, at least the sexual assault part, I don't know aboutthe robbery.
Given that I don't know about the Nyeri madness, that might explain my silence. That said, I have seen a story of a man being gang raped in Zimbabwe. I thought that was funny. Just keeping it honest.
That's the definition of barbarism - you can look it up :D
Not to worry, many people are afflicted. There are other human maladies - tribalism, racism, cannibalism, etc.
Kenya has commuted the death sentences of all 2,747 prisoners on the nation's death row. On October 24, President Uhuru Kenyatta signed orders sparing the lives of 2,655 men and 92 women who had been sentenced to death, commuting their sentences to terms of life in prison. While Kenya still authorizes the death penalty, it has not carried out an execution in nearly 30 years. In August 2009, former President Mwai Kibaki commuted the death sentences of the more than 4,000 prisoners who were then on Kenya's death row. One year later, Kenya's Court of Appeal ruled that the country's mandatory death penalty law was unconstitutional, overturning hundreds of death sentences. Muthoni Wanyeki, a regional director of Amnesty International, praised President Kenyatta's action, saying: “The decision to commute death sentences brings Kenya closer to the growing community of nations that have abolished this cruel and inhuman form of punishment. It must now be abolished for posterity.” Nearly two-thirds of the world's countries have abolished capital punishment in law or practice. Among those countries that retain it, the 28 executions carried out in the United States in 2015 placed it fifth in the world behind only China (with more than 1,000 executions), Iran (977), Pakistan (326), and Saudi Arabia (158).
I haven't seen the video. But I lean on severe punishment including castration and stuffing genitalia in the mouth before beheading, for sexual offenses. If the person says no, it means no, even if you are still free to work other legitimate ways to get them to change their mind.Thank you! There is a tendency to trivialize sexual assault among a lot of guys, I don't get it. Just imagine its a bunch of guys doing this to a guy you know, stripping him naked and doing stuff to his private bits in public including inserting things while he screams and begs to be left alone, video taping it and sharing it. Mercy here belongs with the victim. This to me was beyond even rape which is bad enough. Its closer to torture. No sympathy for those guys. I felt the same about the American woman who participated in the torture of a man though not his killing and now mascarades as a feminist activist. It takes a special kind of person to do that kind of thing.
I think this a case in githurai not the one in downtown Nairobi. These guys robbed the woman and sexually assaulted her. Most like these are members of the outlawed mungiki. The video was filmed by someone who saw the attack.
I think the law says a robbery by two people is regarded as robbery with violence. Either way these guys will end up serving over 30 years in jail. They deserve this sentence.