Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on April 26, 2019, 06:30:16 PM
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Very sad news. China have refused to fund this. So SGR now terminates in some wasteland in Narok.
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Is it Delamare that you call wasteland?
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China man ain't no dummy. He has his eyes and ears on the ground. How viable will this SGR be once American build 8 lanes super highway from Nairobi to kisumu?
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: :)Yes it's official.Raila who had hoped to capitalize on it as part of handshake is flying back with huge egg on the face.Ruto will complete this
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O thank goodness! We are cringing supplicants for Chinese capital - bowing and scraping cash - what on earth for? To build a stash of vanity projects - trains in the wrong places, failed GMO experiments, voodoo Dams - even weetabix factories.:o Stuff no sane capitalist will touch. God save us from Jubilee waste and pipedreams.
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If Uhuru and our fake genius Dr Hustler - had an iota of brains - they would go for subway in Nairobi - optimize mobility for the Nbo-Macha-Kajiado-Kiambu metropolis. That can have proper return. Billions wasted in traffic in Nairobi have been quantified by WB, IMF, IBM, etc - numerously.
Simple math - Nairobi GDP x 4/12 hrs folks waste on the roads daily.
It's a hanging fruit - very exciting obvious opportunity - except to the hare-brained Jubilee.
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We need to do that - and more - to get to south africa level in 2030 - who have like 30,000kms of railway - while we have like 3,000kms of completely dilapidated rail - we need to invest 10 times - that mean Mombasa to Malaba - Lamu to Lokichogio - Moyale to Namanga - and then in the 5 cities - we need intra-city train.Ethiopia without our tax revenues are doing it.
The same for road infrastructure - we have 18,000 paved roads - we need to get 100,000kms - the same with water - we are nearly getting there in electricity, broadband and etc.
Where will the money come from? I think Dr Ruto knows where to find money. Our gov has so many assets it doesn't need.
We need to sell Safaricom, kengen, KAA, Kenya Pipeline, National Oil and so many other assets - that can easily gives us 10B dollars - enough to fund LAPSET - and we can borrow the rest.We can also sell even Nairobi National Park to Chinese - to build houses. 17Kms of prime land without any animals.
WSR when he get to power - will find the money and bridge our infrastructure deficit. There should be no argument or long debate about basic stuff like roads, railways, power stations, dams, piped water, sewage, broadband, airports,seaports, lake ports and such critical infrastructure.
If Uhuru and our fake genius Dr Hustler - had an iota of brains - they would go for subway in Nairobi - optimize mobility for the Nbo-Macha-Kajiado-Kiambu metropolis. That can have proper return. Billions wasted in traffic in Nairobi have been quantified by WB, IMF, IBM, etc - numerously.
Simple math - Nairobi GDP x 4/12 hrs folks waste on the roads daily.
It's a hanging fruit - very exciting obvious opportunity - except to the hare-brained Jubilee.
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Great pitch - you should be Ruto's speech writer. Or moonlight as ghost author :)
Wake us all up when the SGR breaks even - or manages to sustain itself - when Uhuru doesn't need to parade Kagame and M7 and Mama Ngina to market it. When the Dams materialize to reality. When last-mile peasants stop burning firewood and kerosene. When the incompetent Eugene or Kiunjuri reaps a bagful from Galana-Kulalu.
William Ruto is the Principal Architect and overseer - mtu ya mkono ya Uhuru - of all these Jubilee wastage. There is no miracle that would happen if he won the presidency so he can deliver the roster of wishes you have listed here.
We need to do that - and more - to get to south africa level in 2030 - who have like 30,000kms of railway - while we have like 3,000kms of completely dilapidated rail - we need to invest 10 times - that mean Mombasa to Malaba - Lamu to Lokichogio - Moyale to Namanga - and then in the 5 cities - we need intra-city train.Ethiopia without our tax revenues are doing it.
The same for road infrastructure - we have 18,000 paved roads - we need to get 100,000kms - the same with water - we are nearly getting there in electricity, broadband and etc.
Where will the money come from? I think Dr Ruto knows where to find money. Our gov has so many assets it doesn't need.
We need to sell Safaricom, kengen, KAA, Kenya Pipeline, National Oil and so many other assets - that can easily gives us 10B dollars - enough to fund LAPSET - and we can borrow the rest.We can also sell even Nairobi National Park to Chinese - to build houses. 17Kms of prime land without any animals.
WSR when he get to power - will find the money and bridge our infrastructure deficit. There should be no argument or long debate about basic stuff like roads, railways, power stations, dams, piped water, sewage, broadband, airports,seaports, lake ports and such critical infrastructure.
If Uhuru and our fake genius Dr Hustler - had an iota of brains - they would go for subway in Nairobi - optimize mobility for the Nbo-Macha-Kajiado-Kiambu metropolis. That can have proper return. Billions wasted in traffic in Nairobi have been quantified by WB, IMF, IBM, etc - numerously.
Simple math - Nairobi GDP x 4/12 hrs folks waste on the roads daily.
It's a hanging fruit - very exciting obvious opportunity - except to the hare-brained Jubilee.
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Accident
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To RV Pundit: Apologies; I accidentally modified and then deleted one of your "posts". I was in the process of replying to certain bits, as follows.
Public infrastructure - don't have to break even - SGR will be useful 200yrs from now.
The Kenyan SGR needs to make money because ... there is the little matter of a loan to be repaid.
Show me profitable railways and every year countries are laying rails. They are not suppose to be profitable.
Make a friend of Google. :-)
The good thing with infrastructure - is once you lay it (bridge the deficit) - you don't have to rebuild it every year- you just maintain it. The British East Africa railway was laid in 1900 - and 118 years - it's still there - we just need to renovate and maintain it.
Indeed. The 200 years. Just renovate and maintain. So, what happened to the bit between Mombasa and Nairobi? Is it too still there, or did "renovate and maintain" occur to Kenyans just now?
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Ha ha MOON Ki. Pundit is his usual bubbly choirboy - pie in the sky. No need for details.
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That SGR should never have been built. Inter county highways running east to west and south to North would have opened up the country like never before.
Uhuru knew Chinese would not cough up money twice for the same rail plus why would he go against his interest when he is building a dry port in Naivasha? Raila should be able to see through this tu simple simple scheme but I guess 10% of 360 billion can blind any man.
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If sgr doesn't break even Treasury and tax payers will pick the tabs.KR is owned by Treasury.We need to stop thinking short term and start thinking 30 or 50 yes from now.
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Most railways worldwide are not profitable; but they are crucial for mass transportation of goods and people. Old MGR last I heard the Chinese were doing feasibility and design studies for it's renovation.Obviously we dropped the ball at some point but that old railway is still a crucial asset 120yrs later.
To RV Pundit: Apologies; I accidentally modified and then deleted one of your "posts". I was in the process of replying to certain bits, as follows.
Public infrastructure - don't have to break even - SGR will be useful 200yrs from now.
The Kenyan SGR needs to make money because ... there is the little matter of a loan to be repaid.
Show me profitable railways and every year countries are laying rails. They are not suppose to be profitable.
Make a friend of Google. :-)
The good thing with infrastructure - is once you lay it (bridge the deficit) - you don't have to rebuild it every year- you just maintain it. The British East Africa railway was laid in 1900 - and 118 years - it's still there - we just need to renovate and maintain it.
Indeed. The 200 years. Just renovate and maintain. So, what happened to the bit between Mombasa and Nairobi? Is it too still there, or did "renovate and maintain" occur to Kenyans just now?
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That's unconvincing; investment is not a vague concept - it's math - there are all kinds of metrics - NUMBERS - IRR, NPV, etc. Your emotional appeals don't move the ticker. After all the argument about SGR viability - you now tell us it doesn't need to be viable- cause it will be around for 50 or 100 years. That's by definition a white elephant.
If sgr doesn't break even Treasury and tax payers will pick the tabs.KR is owned by Treasury.We need to stop thinking short term and start thinking 30 or 50 yes from now.
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After all the argument about SGR viability - you now tell us it doesn't need to be viable- cause it will be around for 50 or 100 years. That's by definition a white elephant.
This is also what bothers me about Pundit's latest trends. Few years ago, he was swearing about returns on SGR. I feel Pundit has a personal stake in Jubilee, though he's too shy to admit it online. He is not the same guy who was berating screwball Uhuru for making stupid economic decisions not that long ago.
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This is also what bothers me about Pundit's latest trends. Few years ago, he was swearing about returns on SGR. I feel Pundit has a personal stake in Jubilee, though he's too shy to admit it online. He is not the same guy who was berating screwball Uhuru for making stupid economic decisions not that long ago.
Two factors: 1)tribalism - Ruto is Samoei or some such crap 2)Nyayo nostalgia - the Kalenjin generation who missed the Moi windfall when one tribe choked the bureaucracy - can't wait for their turn to feast
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Pundito, the problem with SGR is not even break even but the fact that is is not lowering the cost of transport. It makes zero sense to transport cargo to Nairobi 12 hours faster. There is no time sensitive cargo that can’t wait a day or even two. Businesses simply plan their stock around the time it takes to transport their cargo by road. You simply time your order to arrive 2 days earlier. If SGR added value to the economy other than the Adrenalin ‘economic’ growth experienced during construction then I would overlook the corruption as another overhead.
Just like the 750B poured into power generation in the last ten years or so. Power costs remain high so nobody is really gaining.
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Public investment are long time. You're the same fellows who was berating kibaki for spending 400M dollars on 40km of Thika Road. SGR- Nairobi-Msa - is super viable. Beyond that - we depend on Uganda cargo.
That's unconvincing; investment is not a vague concept - it's math - there are all kinds of metrics - NUMBERS - IRR, NPV, etc. Your emotional appeals don't move the ticker. After all the argument about SGR viability - you now tell us it doesn't need to be viable- cause it will be around for 50 or 100 years. That's by definition a white elephant.
If sgr doesn't break even Treasury and tax payers will pick the tabs.KR is owned by Treasury.We need to stop thinking short term and start thinking 30 or 50 yes from now.
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Teething problems. The double handling need to be dealt with by KR becoming total logistic provider. Already 2M passengers enjoy faster and safe travel to Mombasa. Tonnes of cargo have been moved. The road cannot handle the traffic - from Mombasa port going forward. We'd have to spend on the road or the railway or both. The road that can handle the kind of traffic ten years from now was going to cost 3B dollars. The Rail cost us 3.2B.
The 750B in power sector has raised our electricity access from 12-15% when Moi left to now well into 80% - and Uhuru may well gives us universal electricity access - when we hit 90-95%. That will be huge. After sorting access - we can now start thinking about the price - by again investing in cheaper power - coal - seem only viable option - considering hydro is no good in desert like country like kenya.
We should never argue about solid investment like building roads, railways, ports, - let argue about investing 20B in Kenya Airways that is burning money or 20B in National Bank- but not on JKIA airport.
Pundito, the problem with SGR is not even break even but the fact that is is not lowering the cost of transport. It makes zero sense to transport cargo to Nairobi 12 hours faster. There is no time sensitive cargo that can’t wait a day or even two. Businesses simply plan their stock around the time it takes to transport their cargo by road. You simply time your order to arrive 2 days earlier. If SGR added value to the economy other than the Adrenalin ‘economic’ growth experienced during construction then I would overlook the corruption as another overhead.
Just like the 750B poured into power generation in the last ten years or so. Power costs remain high so nobody is really gaining.
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Apart from cost, viability etc, the most egregious aspect of SGR is that importers are being forced to use it. The good thing is there's a court case to scrap the mandate. Also importers are being charged 1.5% levy to pay for rail that's more expensive than road. Only jubilee can come up such a dreadful project.
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HK - SGR has operational teething problems - Jubilee delivered railway in record 3yrs and it operational & starting to fly - the impact on the economy is already being felt.
Rotich said the transport sector was second after agriculture. Injecting Sh711 billion into the Kenyan economy, with part of the push coming in from the Standard Gauge Railway.
“One of the key sub-sectors that contributed to this growth is rail freight traffic, that more than tripled to 3,544 thousand tonnes in 2018, mainly due to the introduction of freight transportation services on the SGR,” he said.Pushing more cargo to the SGR enabled the State to capture the contribution of the transport sector, which has previously been majorly informal.
SGR earned Sh9.8 billion from ferrying cargo and Sh1.7 billion from passenger service – more than double the previous year
Apart from cost, viability etc, the most egregious aspect of SGR is that importers are being forced to use it. The good thing is there's a court case to scrap the mandate. Also importers are being charged 1.5% levy to pay for rail that's more expensive than road. Only jubilee can come up such a dreadful project.
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HK - SGR has operational teething problems - Jubilee delivered railway in record 3yrs and it operational & starting to fly - the impact on the economy is already being felt.
Rotich said the transport sector was second after agriculture. Injecting Sh711 billion into the Kenyan economy, with part of the push coming in from the Standard Gauge Railway.
“One of the key sub-sectors that contributed to this growth is rail freight traffic, that more than tripled to 3,544 thousand tonnes in 2018, mainly due to the introduction of freight transportation services on the SGR,” he said.Pushing more cargo to the SGR enabled the State to capture the contribution of the transport sector, which has previously been majorly informal.
SGR earned Sh9.8 billion from ferrying cargo and Sh1.7 billion from passenger service – more than double the previous year
Apart from cost, viability etc, the most egregious aspect of SGR is that importers are being forced to use it. The good thing is there's a court case to scrap the mandate. Also importers are being charged 1.5% levy to pay for rail that's more expensive than road. Only jubilee can come up such a dreadful project.
So basically its not that transport as a whole has grown its only cause of SGR transport sector contribution to economy its now being fully captured. You see now where all those rosy GDP growth numbers are coming from. We don't need mandates and monopolies in the economy. If SGR is so good let it win customers in the marketplace. We can't be paying for it (1.5% levy) then be forced to use it even though there's a cheaper option. Consumers are being triple screwed.
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We should never argue about solid investment like building roads, railways, ports, -
That must have been the Sri Lankan thinking. Until they had to hand over their nice, new, solid port plus a huge chunk of their land. For 99 years.
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Yes the more formal the sector get, the better for everyone - gov, kra, etc. Obviously when trucks operate - like Matatus - they become hard to tax, hard to capture, hard to police and generally a mess.
GoK has no option except repay the loan as per conditions - KPA has to guarantee SGR 40% off-take or pay - and obviously RDL will continue to be levied because we need to build a lot of railways.
These are the sacrifices we have to take - so the next generation can have modern infrastructure. Trucks may appear cheaper - but they are ripping apart roads, causing accidents, pollution and traffic grindlock - and really stifling sectors like mining - that require railways - to move really heavy cargo. I mean if Tata Chemical/Magadi soda can built their own railway - surely the country can.
So basically its not that transport as a whole has grown its only cause of SGR transport sector contribution to economy its now being fully captured. You see now where all those rosy GDP growth numbers are coming from. We don't need mandates and monopolies in the economy. If SGR is so good let it win customers in the marketplace. We can't be paying for it (1.5% levy) then be forced to use it even though there's a cheaper option. Consumers are being triple screwed.
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What problem with handing over say Lamu port to chinese? It not like Sri lanka new port is now part of China territory. Sri lanka will still own the land and will still ensure chinese pay the taxes and follows the country laws.
In fact if all China want - is 99yrs lease to build and own - let them do it. They call it BOT - build, operate and transfer. It cheapest way to get infrastructure done.
What is exactly did Sri Lanka loses? They didn't have a port - Chinese built one and now operate it - Sri Lanka economy is the richer.
That must have been the Sri Lankan thinking. Until they had to hand over their nice, new, solid port plus a huge chunk of their land. For 99 years.
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What problem with handing over say Lamu port to chinese? It not like Sri lanka new port is now part of China territory. Sri lanka will still own the land and will still ensure chinese pay the taxes and follows the country laws.
In fact if all China want - is 99yrs lease to build and own - let them do it. They call it BOT - build, operate and transfer. It cheapest way to get infrastructure done.
What is exactly did Sri Lanka loses? They didn't have a port - Chinese built one and now operate it - Sri Lanka economy is the richer.
The problem? The initial deal was never about the Chinese grabbing the port, BOT or not. The Sri Lankans were forced to hand it over when it became clear that they had financially over-extended themselves.
As to whether that's the cheapest way to get infrastructure, that remains to be seen. But I don't see many countries cheerfully lining up to handing over infrastructure and huge chunks land for a century.
What did the Sri Lankans lose? That's an interesting question. Should we ask the British to re-colonize us because they might give us stuff we don't currently have?
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We should never argue about solid investment like building roads, railways, ports, -
That must have been the Sri Lankan thinking. Until they had to hand over their nice, new, solid port plus a huge chunk of their land. For 99 years.
I too find it hard to swallow that argument - that rail, road, port, etc should not be questioned. That's bizarre, especially when the numbers don't add up. The said numbers were fiddled until now finally they own up with such pedestrian arguments. The real reason SGR and the Dams were heavily funded and billed as transformational is obviously for the heavy kickbacks.
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The said numbers were fiddled until now finally they own up with such pedestrian arguments. The real reason SGR and the Dams were heavily funded and billed as transformational is obviously for the heavy kickbacks.
Indeed. There are no more amazing stories about the amazing profits the SGR is going to make, etc.. Instead, we have this peculiar, rear-guard action: "don't question; don't argue; …".
Still, while our infrastructure (including The Great, New SGR) is nowhere near world-class, we are at least world-class in one thing: Eating. Even the Nigerians now fear us there.
By the way, what happened to Vision 3020 2030? I haven't heard the usual noises in quite some time. Has all the eating been done on those projects?
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There are many easy ways to eat money. Like supplying fake gold that Moi & Patnni did or supplying air like Kibaki did in Angloleasing. You just cook fake projects, get funding abroad and eat the money. Nothing on the ground.
Now everyone and their mother knows SGR is real - yes Jubilee has eaten 10% here and there - but we have solid infrastructure.
Obviously Jubilee infrastructure projects are being felt - We saw the world fastest electrification - and you can see electricity lights everywhere including in small market centers - and people homes. Jubilee inherited 12,000kms of roads - they've added 6,000 brand new roads - mostly low bitumen - and 4,000 more are under constructions. Those are being felt everywhere in this country.
Of course the signature project is new greenfield railway - SGR - kenya biggest investment - 5B dollars! - that compared to say Ethiopia - is off to flying start.
I too find it hard to swallow that argument - that rail, road, port, etc should not be questioned. That's bizarre, especially when the numbers don't add up. The said numbers were fiddled until now finally they own up with such pedestrian arguments. The real reason SGR and the Dams were heavily funded and billed as transformational is obviously for the heavy kickbacks.
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SGR - Ethiopia has done metro with good ROI, hardly comparable. Also dirt-poor Ethiopia is not a great country to draw comparisons. SGR is unviable so the Chinese have denied Uhuru funding.
Roads - bitumen/murram upcountry; metros esp Nai flyovers like Outer Ring Road - these are great. Roads are cheap and heavily utilized unlike the SGR.
Last-mile - this is haphazard. Ok for centers or village towns but not literal "last-mile" to every peasant with no income to pay.
The roads & last-mile are your usual obfuscation. SGR haiwesmake.
There are many easy ways to eat money. Like supplying fake gold that Moi & Patnni did or supplying air like Kibaki did in Angloleasing. You just cook fake projects, get funding abroad and eat the money. Nothing on the ground.
Now everyone and their mother knows SGR is real - yes Jubilee has eaten 10% here and there - but we have solid infrastructure.
Obviously Jubilee infrastructure projects are being felt - We saw the world fastest electrification - and you can see electricity lights everywhere including in small market centers - and people homes. Jubilee inherited 12,000kms of roads - they've added 6,000 brand new roads - mostly low bitumen - and 4,000 more are under constructions. Those are being felt everywhere in this country.
Of course the signature project is new greenfield railway - SGR - kenya biggest investment - 5B dollars! - that compared to say Ethiopia - is off to flying start.
I too find it hard to swallow that argument - that rail, road, port, etc should not be questioned. That's bizarre, especially when the numbers don't add up. The said numbers were fiddled until now finally they own up with such pedestrian arguments. The real reason SGR and the Dams were heavily funded and billed as transformational is obviously for the heavy kickbacks.
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Ethiopia is not corrupt. We both got funding from China. And Kenya is doing way better. You can try Nigeria or whichever country. Our new SGR is already amongst the most magnificient rail rides. Tourist love it - more than 2M passengers are using it. It's ever nearly fully booked. The cargo business started last year - it's been what 14 months of operaton - and it already has transported maybe 4-5M tonnes of cargo.....
And yet SGR is yet start doing it's job. SGR is really meant for transport BULK CARGO- not containerized (trucks are competitive there) - but when you're talking 70-80 tonnes of say clinker, iron ores, gypsums, cement and such - even crude oil. And cereals - maize,sugar - etc. You cannot use roads to transport such cargo.
SGR - and all our infrastructure - are SOLID PROJECTS.
SGR has been operational in 1yr - and you want it to repay itself :)
SGR - Ethiopia has done metro with good ROI, hardly comparable. Also dirt-poor Ethiopia is not a great country to draw comparisons. SGR is unviable so the Chinese have denied Uhuru funding.
Roads - bitumen/murram upcountry; metros esp Nai flyovers like Outer Ring Road - these are great. Roads are cheap and heavily utilized unlike the SGR.
Last-mile - this is haphazard. Ok for centers or village towns but not literal "last-mile" to every peasant with no income to pay.
The roads & last-mile are your usual obfuscation. SGR haiwesmake.
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Why has China declined to fund SGR phase 2?
Ethiopia is not corrupt. We both got funding from China. And Kenya is doing way better. You can try Nigeria or whichever country. Our new SGR is already amongst the most magnificient rail rides. Tourist love it - more than 2M passengers are using it. It's ever nearly fully booked. The cargo business started last year - it's been what 14 months of operaton - and it already has transported maybe 4-5M tonnes of cargo.....
And yet SGR is yet start doing it's job. SGR is really meant for transport BULK CARGO- not containerized (trucks are competitive there) - but when you're talking 70-80 tonnes of say clinker, iron ores, gypsums, cement and such - even crude oil. And cereals - maize,sugar - etc. You cannot use roads to transport such cargo.
SGR - and all our infrastructure - are SOLID PROJECTS.
SGR has been operational in 1yr - and you want it to repay itself :)
SGR - Ethiopia has done metro with good ROI, hardly comparable. Also dirt-poor Ethiopia is not a great country to draw comparisons. SGR is unviable so the Chinese have denied Uhuru funding.
Roads - bitumen/murram upcountry; metros esp Nai flyovers like Outer Ring Road - these are great. Roads are cheap and heavily utilized unlike the SGR.
Last-mile - this is haphazard. Ok for centers or village towns but not literal "last-mile" to every peasant with no income to pay.
The roads & last-mile are your usual obfuscation. SGR haiwesmake.
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Kenya debt level are crossing the danger levels...60%..to GDP...but I believe their is disagreement - because 1) China wants both Kenya and uganda to sign 2) China also want some tough conditions - including collatoral (like KPA- 40% take or pay) - and yet Kenya basically want half the loan as grants. Museveni of course bailed out claiming corruption - but I think Uganda are also choking in debts - and cannot take 4B loan - that is more than 10% of their GDP.
I believe both parties are buying time. There is no hurry. Phase 2A is not complete - there still the need to construct the dry port and finish up unfinished sections - so 2019 is pretty much covered.
By next year with GDP at 100B - we may be able to take more debts -- and we certainly will complete this.
Why has China declined to fund SGR phase 2?
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Why is it that the Chinaman cannot see this fact or is it fiction?
Kenya debt level are crossing the danger levels...60%..to GDP...but I believe their is disagreement - because 1) China wants both Kenya and uganda to sign 2) China also want some tough conditions - including collatoral (like KPA- 40% take or pay) - and yet Kenya basically want half the loan as grants. Museveni of course bailed out claiming corruption - but I think Uganda are also choking in debts - and cannot take 4B loan - that is more than 10% of their GDP.
I believe both parties are buying time. There is no hurry. Phase 2A is not complete - there still the need to construct the dry port and finish up unfinished sections - so 2019 is pretty much covered.
By next year with GDP at 100B - we may be able to take more debts -- and we certainly will complete this.
Why has China declined to fund SGR phase 2?
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The economy will be rebased for the upteenth time under Jubilee; -and bum! 100B
Why is it that the Chinaman cannot see this fact or is it fiction?
Kenya debt level are crossing the danger levels...60%..to GDP...but I believe their is disagreement - because 1) China wants both Kenya and uganda to sign 2) China also want some tough conditions - including collatoral (like KPA- 40% take or pay) - and yet Kenya basically want half the loan as grants. Museveni of course bailed out claiming corruption - but I think Uganda are also choking in debts - and cannot take 4B loan - that is more than 10% of their GDP.
I believe both parties are buying time. There is no hurry. Phase 2A is not complete - there still the need to construct the dry port and finish up unfinished sections - so 2019 is pretty much covered.
By next year with GDP at 100B - we may be able to take more debts -- and we certainly will complete this.
Why has China declined to fund SGR phase 2?
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China man is smart. He is willing to give us secured loan. If we don't repay - they take some asset. I think we should wait for another 2-3yrs and hopefully economy will be bigger - and debt to gdp ratio will be good again to borrow.
Why is it that the Chinaman cannot see this fact or is it fiction?
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I have never understood what is the emotional surges about the Chinese wanting say KPA or Naivasha dry port. This is a country where mzungu own big stretches of land he stole after killing the owners.
Northland Rangelands Trust owns how much land sijui Lewa Downs - have they undertaken any infrastructure development in that wild NEP???
Invalid Tweet ID
Illiterate Muhindi owns all the manaufacturing across Kenya and we keep yapping about a deadwood KPA?? Somali illegal control even hawking and it is a
20% of the NSE listed companies have always been in the hands of foreign investors??
The sell-off pulled down cumulative foreign investor holding in the listed firms to 19.44 per cent from 20.17 per cent in 2017. The current shareholding is the lowest since 2011 when their combined stake was 19.44 per cent.
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/capital/Foreign-investors-stake-at-NSE-hits-a-7-year-low/4259442-4967124-ssx77rz/index.html
Chinese may turn around this dead wood KPA now that it is only for tribal appointment balancing maths.
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Well said. They have bought western anti-chinese propaganda hook, line and sink. the same western nations are also choking in chinese debts.
I have never understood what is the emotional surges about the Chinese wanting say KPA or Naivasha dry port. This is a country where mzungu own big stretches of land he stole after killing the owners.
Northland Rangelands Trust owns how much land sijui Lewa Downs - have they undertaken any infrastructure development in that wild NEP???
Invalid Tweet ID
Illiterate Muhindi owns all the manaufacturing across Kenya and we keep yapping about a deadwood KPA?? Somali illegal control even hawking and it is a
20% of the NSE listed companies have always been in the hands of foreign investors??
The sell-off pulled down cumulative foreign investor holding in the listed firms to 19.44 per cent from 20.17 per cent in 2017. The current shareholding is the lowest since 2011 when their combined stake was 19.44 per cent.
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/capital/Foreign-investors-stake-at-NSE-hits-a-7-year-low/4259442-4967124-ssx77rz/index.html
Chinese may turn around this dead wood KPA now that it is only for tribal appointment balancing maths.
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Just laughable attachment to a deadwood
I take pleasure in presenting this year’s Annual Report and Financial Statements for the year ended 30th June, 2017. The Authority’s performance has been on an upward trend due to a favorable economic environment, facilitated by the Government of Kenya and increased port capacity as a result of the expansion of port infrastructure and equipment modernisation.
During the year under review, operating revenue was KShs. 39,603.7 million, representing a 3.3% growth from KShs. 38,330.4 million last year. Revenue from the 5 main revenue streams i.e. stevedoring, wharfage, shore-handling, storage of full containers and tug services contributed a total of KShs. 34,048 million, which is 85.97% of operating revenue.
The operating profit increased from KShs. 9,277.8 million in 2015/16 to KShs. 9,511.8 million in 2016/17.
https://www.kpa.co.ke/Pages/Annual-Financial-Reports.aspx
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Dear RV Pundit,
I have confirmed that the Chinese questioned the VIABILITY of the SGR and not our debt ratio. Stop spinning to us - that's Waita's job.
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Ati Waita? That's the most useless guy I have ever seen or listen ...bureeee bure kabisa...you should not even mention his name in this forum.
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The Chinese want to control geostrategic ports around the world. It's not all about hard asset value. You don't give up a port fwaa. It's not *KPA* but the security infrastructure at stake. Next you will need to salute the PLA Navy to access the port.
Just laughable attachment to a deadwood
I take pleasure in presenting this year’s Annual Report and Financial Statements for the year ended 30th June, 2017. The Authority’s performance has been on an upward trend due to a favorable economic environment, facilitated by the Government of Kenya and increased port capacity as a result of the expansion of port infrastructure and equipment modernisation.
During the year under review, operating revenue was KShs. 39,603.7 million, representing a 3.3% growth from KShs. 38,330.4 million last year. Revenue from the 5 main revenue streams i.e. stevedoring, wharfage, shore-handling, storage of full containers and tug services contributed a total of KShs. 34,048 million, which is 85.97% of operating revenue.
The operating profit increased from KShs. 9,277.8 million in 2015/16 to KShs. 9,511.8 million in 2016/17.
https://www.kpa.co.ke/Pages/Annual-Financial-Reports.aspx
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Ati Waita? That's the most useless guy I have ever seen or listen ...bureeee bure kabisa...you should not even mention his name in this forum.
Well he took over Itumbi-Esipisu role competent or not. Pundit should leave the spinning to him.
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I believe their is disagreement - because 1) China wants both Kenya and uganda to sign 2) China also want some tough conditions - including collatoral (like KPA- 40% take or pay) -
And why do they want all that?
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I have never understood what is the emotional surges about the Chinese wanting say KPA or Naivasha dry port. This is a country where mzungu own big stretches of land he stole after killing the owners.
Some guys grabbed some land after killing the owners. So what's the big deal about letting some newcomers also grab something. Interesting logic.
And why would Kenyans be sensitive about all the grab-grab, past and future? Interesting question.
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Dear RV Pundit,
I have confirmed that the Chinese questioned the VIABILITY of the SGR and not our debt ratio. Stop spinning to us - that's Waita's job.
Yes, they questioned that when last year GoK rushed to China (just as it has done lately) expecting some easy money. Apparently they don't have much use for "railways don't have to make money" arguments.
“All documents are ready. However, when we engaged the Chinese government, it was agreed they do support it, but we need to complete the feasibility study, not just for Naivasha to Kisumu but also all the way from Mombasa to Kisumu so that we can establish its commercial viability,” said the Transport CS James Macharia after the meeting with Chinese officials.
http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=7441.5;wap2
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Robina, of course viability of the rail beyond Nairobi is doubful without Uganda commitment to use it.The next big destination of cargo after Nairobi is Kampala...nearly a third of Mombasa cargo is transit..there is little going to Kisumu or Eldoret.Uganda and Kenya need to both sign.Debt GDP is Kenya internal worry. Chinese will lend if we proof viability, give security and insurance...3.5b dollars is not small change.
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This is getting twisted how can a deadwood be strategic?? Which security assets - just recently Uhuru was launching some knockdown funny Shujaa.
The strategic port has been in control of peddlers likes of aksha, Joho. Plus, our greedy political thugs are not giving it up fwaa - they are getting an SGR rail and some knock down locomotives. There are limits to which mwafrika political thugs can cede ground to; reason you hear Uhuru starting to talk of half the cost being a grant
The Chinese want to control geostrategic ports around the world. It's not all about hard asset value. You don't give up a port fwaa. It's not *KPA* but the security infrastructure at stake. Next you will need to salute the PLA Navy to access the port.
Just laughable attachment to a deadwood
I take pleasure in presenting this year’s Annual Report and Financial Statements for the year ended 30th June, 2017. The Authority’s performance has been on an upward trend due to a favorable economic environment, facilitated by the Government of Kenya and increased port capacity as a result of the expansion of port infrastructure and equipment modernisation.
During the year under review, operating revenue was KShs. 39,603.7 million, representing a 3.3% growth from KShs. 38,330.4 million last year. Revenue from the 5 main revenue streams i.e. stevedoring, wharfage, shore-handling, storage of full containers and tug services contributed a total of KShs. 34,048 million, which is 85.97% of operating revenue.
The operating profit increased from KShs. 9,277.8 million in 2015/16 to KShs. 9,511.8 million in 2016/17.
https://www.kpa.co.ke/Pages/Annual-Financial-Reports.aspx
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Dragon man is negotiating not killing anyone. We only have to push mwafrika political thugs to renegotiate terms like Uhuru is calling for half the cost to be a grant. The political thugs are ones who are having little to steal once all revenues goes to Chinese loans.
If it comes to worst the mwafrika peasants can chase the dragon man just like mau mau did - there are limits to which the dragon can spit its fire.
I have never understood what is the emotional surges about the Chinese wanting say KPA or Naivasha dry port. This is a country where mzungu own big stretches of land he stole after killing the owners.
Some guys grabbed some land after killing the owners. So what's the big deal about letting some newcomers also grab something. Interesting logic.
And why would Kenyans be sensitive about all the grab-grab, past and future? Interesting question.
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Good - your earlier story about debt level was spin. The entire SGR has NEGATIVE ROI - numbers don't lie. Your bulk cargo stories don't hold water - cause halooo - math. The bulk cargo for Nairobi or Kampala would show in the numbers - yet even 1A Msa-Nbi the numbers don't add up. So the shrewd Chinese want collateral - to cover their behind - and leave us holding the empty bowl.
Robina, of course viability of the rail beyond Nairobi is doubful without Uganda commitment to use it.The next big destination of cargo after Nairobi is Kampala...nearly a third of Mombasa cargo is transit..there is little going to Kisumu or Eldoret.Uganda and Kenya need to both sign.Debt GDP is Kenya internal worry. Chinese will lend if we proof viability, give security and insurance...3.5b dollars is not small change.
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Dragon man is negotiating not killing anyone. We only have to push mwafrika political thugs to renegotiate terms like Uhuru is calling for half the cost to be a grant. The political thugs are ones who are having little to steal once all revenues goes to Chinese loans.
I think you will find that the Brits too "negotiated" for those huge chunks of land, which is why they still have them and why it kicking them off is tricky.
"They aren't killing anybody, so why not?" seems awfully lame. In any case, today's great robberies do not require violence and probably cannot be executed with violence. The best tools in the 21st are a pen (to sign on a "negotiated agreement") or a computer (especially for those outside the law).
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Ethiopia is not corrupt. We both got funding from China. And Kenya is doing way better. You can try Nigeria or whichever country. Our new SGR is already amongst the most magnificient rail rides. Tourist love it - more than 2M passengers are using it. It's ever nearly fully booked. The cargo business started last year - it's been what 14 months of operaton - and it already has transported maybe 4-5M tonnes of cargo.....
And yet SGR is yet start doing it's job. SGR is really meant for transport BULK CARGO- not containerized (trucks are competitive there) - but when you're talking 70-80 tonnes of say clinker, iron ores, gypsums, cement and such - even crude oil. And cereals - maize,sugar - etc. You cannot use roads to transport such cargo.
SGR - and all our infrastructure - are SOLID PROJECTS.
SGR has been operational in 1yr - and you want it to repay itself :)
SGR - Ethiopia has done metro with good ROI, hardly comparable. Also dirt-poor Ethiopia is not a great country to draw comparisons. SGR is unviable so the Chinese have denied Uhuru funding.
Roads - bitumen/murram upcountry; metros esp Nai flyovers like Outer Ring Road - these are great. Roads are cheap and heavily utilized unlike the SGR.
Last-mile - this is haphazard. Ok for centers or village towns but not literal "last-mile" to every peasant with no income to pay.
The roads & last-mile are your usual obfuscation. SGR haiwesmake.
What bulk cargo needs SGR that can’t be transported by the old railway?
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Teething problems. The double handling need to be dealt with by KR becoming total logistic provider. Already 2M passengers enjoy faster and safe travel to Mombasa. Tonnes of cargo have been moved. The road cannot handle the traffic - from Mombasa port going forward. We'd have to spend on the road or the railway or both. The road that can handle the kind of traffic ten years from now was going to cost 3B dollars. The Rail cost us 3.2B.
The 750B in power sector has raised our electricity access from 12-15% when Moi left to now well into 80% - and Uhuru may well gives us universal electricity access - when we hit 90-95%. That will be huge. After sorting access - we can now start thinking about the price - by again investing in cheaper power - coal - seem only viable option - considering hydro is no good in desert like country like kenya.
We should never argue about solid investment like building roads, railways, ports, - let argue about investing 20B in Kenya Airways that is burning money or 20B in National Bank- but not on JKIA airport.
Pundito, the problem with SGR is not even break even but the fact that is is not lowering the cost of transport. It makes zero sense to transport cargo to Nairobi 12 hours faster. There is no time sensitive cargo that can’t wait a day or even two. Businesses simply plan their stock around the time it takes to transport their cargo by road. You simply time your order to arrive 2 days earlier. If SGR added value to the economy other than the Adrenalin ‘economic’ growth experienced during construction then I would overlook the corruption as another overhead.
Just like the 750B poured into power generation in the last ten years or so. Power costs remain high so nobody is really gaining.
There are no teething problems
1. Cost of running SGR is not about to come down unless you explain why
2. There are levies and government subsidies on it yet is is not attracting enough cargo to date
SGR is just a shiny useless toy nobody needed.
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What bulk cargo needs SGR that can’t be transported by the old railway?
Good question. A place like Japan moves a whole bunch of cargo on its ancient, refurbished narrow-gauge lines. And they move more of it and faster than on Kenyans on their shiny new toy. Passengers? In a place like Kenya, they don't do much for railway revenue.
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The Chinese want to control geostrategic ports around the world. It's not all about hard asset value. You don't give up a port fwaa. It's not *KPA* but the security infrastructure at stake. Next you will need to salute the PLA Navy to access the port.
Exactly. In a way, I am reminded of the old "Look at all these shiny beads we just got! And all we had to give in return was tens of thousands of acres of jungle and wild animals!".
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If it was a deadwood the Chinese would not want it as $5B collateral. Plainsense. A port is not a shamba or park my dear.
This is getting twisted how can a deadwood be strategic?? Which security assets - just recently Uhuru was launching some knockdown funny Shujaa.
The strategic port has been in control of peddlers likes of aksha, Joho. Plus, our greedy political thugs are not giving it up fwaa - they are getting an SGR rail and some knock down locomotives. There are limits to which mwafrika political thugs can cede ground to; reason you hear Uhuru starting to talk of half the cost being a grant
The Chinese want to control geostrategic ports around the world. It's not all about hard asset value. You don't give up a port fwaa. It's not *KPA* but the security infrastructure at stake. Next you will need to salute the PLA Navy to access the port.
Just laughable attachment to a deadwood
I take pleasure in presenting this year’s Annual Report and Financial Statements for the year ended 30th June, 2017. The Authority’s performance has been on an upward trend due to a favorable economic environment, facilitated by the Government of Kenya and increased port capacity as a result of the expansion of port infrastructure and equipment modernisation.
During the year under review, operating revenue was KShs. 39,603.7 million, representing a 3.3% growth from KShs. 38,330.4 million last year. Revenue from the 5 main revenue streams i.e. stevedoring, wharfage, shore-handling, storage of full containers and tug services contributed a total of KShs. 34,048 million, which is 85.97% of operating revenue.
The operating profit increased from KShs. 9,277.8 million in 2015/16 to KShs. 9,511.8 million in 2016/17.
https://www.kpa.co.ke/Pages/Annual-Financial-Reports.aspx
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Too much discussion on this SGR issue.
The main thing here is Uhuru and his buddies saw a chance to make billions on kickbacks through this project. It was not thought through properly from day one. That is why the train stations are so far from the town centres. Even the Nairobi-Naivasha stretch is just another crazy idea. Now Kenyans paying 150B Ksh for a railway to nowhere.
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Teething problems. The double handling need to be dealt with by KR becoming total logistic provider. Already 2M passengers enjoy faster and safe travel to Mombasa. Tonnes of cargo have been moved. The road cannot handle the traffic - from Mombasa port going forward. We'd have to spend on the road or the railway or both. The road that can handle the kind of traffic ten years from now was going to cost 3B dollars. The Rail cost us 3.2B.
The 750B in power sector has raised our electricity access from 12-15% when Moi left to now well into 80% - and Uhuru may well gives us universal electricity access - when we hit 90-95%. That will be huge. After sorting access - we can now start thinking about the price - by again investing in cheaper power - coal - seem only viable option - considering hydro is no good in desert like country like kenya.
We should never argue about solid investment like building roads, railways, ports, - let argue about investing 20B in Kenya Airways that is burning money or 20B in National Bank- but not on JKIA airport.
Pundito, the problem with SGR is not even break even but the fact that is is not lowering the cost of transport. It makes zero sense to transport cargo to Nairobi 12 hours faster. There is no time sensitive cargo that can’t wait a day or even two. Businesses simply plan their stock around the time it takes to transport their cargo by road. You simply time your order to arrive 2 days earlier. If SGR added value to the economy other than the Adrenalin ‘economic’ growth experienced during construction then I would overlook the corruption as another overhead.
Just like the 750B poured into power generation in the last ten years or so. Power costs remain high so nobody is really gaining.
There are no teething problems
1. Cost of running SGR is not about to come down unless you explain why
2. There are levies and government subsidies on it yet is is not attracting enough cargo to date
SGR is just a shiny useless toy nobody needed.
Been wondering too how a rail has teething issues. Like a machinery. :)
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1. Cost of running SGR is not about to come down unless you explain why
2. There are levies and government subsidies on it yet is is not attracting enough cargo to date
You left out one:
3. People are being forced to use it.
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Too much discussion on this SGR issue.
The main thing here is Uhuru and his buddies saw a chance to make billions on kickbacks through this project. It was not thought through properly from day one. That is why the train stations are so far from the town centres. Even the Nairobi-Naivasha stretch is just another crazy idea. Now Kenyans paying 150B Ksh for a railway to nowhere.
SGR was Ruto's plan per URP manifesto. Why it was rolled out pap! Kusema na Kutender.:) UK made it his baby and took off with the loot. Most TNA ideas never saw the light of day.. heard of the kindles lately?
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Wapi Pundit? hii bulk cargo must be mursik from Bomet.
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Too much discussion on this SGR issue.
The main thing here is Uhuru and his buddies saw a chance to make billions on kickbacks through this project. It was not thought through properly from day one. That is why the train stations are so far from the town centres. Even the Nairobi-Naivasha stretch is just another crazy idea. Now Kenyans paying 150B Ksh for a railway to nowhere.
The SGR is important because it is Exhibit A in huge case of criminal mischief and idiocy. Just think of all the "Vision 2030" projects. How much money went in, and what did Kenyans get in return?
And even outside The Vision, there are other shocking examples: Building a wall between Kenya and Somalia? Seriously? How much would even a fence cost, and how long would it take? Forget a fence. How about just a modest ditch?
The "railway to nowhere" is amusing. According to the Transportation (or whatever) Secretary, GoK will now clear the bats out of old railway stations between Naivasha and Kisumu/Malaba; remove the weeds from the old railway line and spruce it up a bit; and then move stuff from the SGR to the old line. Oh, there's one awkward bit: the distance from the new line to the old one is around 50km. So, another rail, or trucks to shuttle back and forth?
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Another good example is BRT for Nairobi. Even before anything is planned roads are being painted red and months later nothing has happened. Did the CS's buddy have too much paint which he sold to the ministry? We were told BRT busses were on the way from RSA and months later no bus insight. Now the BRT infrastructure is not even on paper and busses are being imported.
Dar es Salaam started planning BRT in 2007 and the first line was inaugrated in 2016.
And even outside The Vision, there are other shocking examples: Building a wall between Kenya and Somalia? Seriously? How much would even a fence cost, and how long would it take? Forget a fence. How about just a modest ditch?
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Useless back n forth.We had to build a new or greenfield sgr because WB had locked our mgr in 25 yr complex concession with RVR. Now that RVR is out, the old MGR is in play. Railways except light rails are not good with passengers or containers.They are great for bulk cargo.SGR start transporting bulk cargo the last Q...and we can expect profitability on that segment because rails can do up to 70 tonnes while roads max out at 30.We are talking clinker, cement, cereals,minerals etc.We definitely need more railways..esp modern Nairobi light rail.That should cost around 1B dollars.Uhuru need to embark on that...as we wait for Uganda to commit.
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Useless back n forth.We had to build a new or greenfield sgr because WB had locked our mgr in 25 yr complex concession with RVR. Now that RVR is out, the old MGR is in play. Railways except light rails are not good with passengers or containers.They are great for bulk cargo.SGR start transporting bulk cargo the last Q...and we can expect profitability on that segment because rails can do up to 70 tonnes while roads max out at 30.We are talking clinker, cement, cereals,minerals etc.We definitely need more railways..esp modern Nairobi light rail.That should cost around 1B dollars.Uhuru need to embark on that...as we wait for Uganda to commit.
But the question is, what can SGR cargo business do that the meter gauge railway can’t?
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Useless back n forth.We had to build a new or greenfield sgr because WB had locked our mgr in 25 yr complex concession with RVR. Now that RVR is out, the old MGR is in play. Railways except light rails are not good with passengers or containers.They are great for bulk cargo.SGR start transporting bulk cargo the last Q...and we can expect profitability on that segment because rails can do up to 70 tonnes while roads max out at 30.We are talking clinker, cement, cereals,minerals etc.We definitely need more railways..esp modern Nairobi light rail.That should cost around 1B dollars.Uhuru need to embark on that...as we wait for Uganda to commit.
But the question is, what can SGR cargo business do that the meter gauge railway can’t?
Everyone is on SGR... Standardized... coz nobody is making rolling stock for mgr...how obtuse can some of you be.MGR was built by Brits 120yrs when Kenya was about 1m and GDP about nothing.Argue about other stuff...solid infrastructure like sgr will Outlast you grand kids
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Useless back n forth.We had to build a new or greenfield sgr because WB had locked our mgr in 25 yr complex concession with RVR. Now that RVR is out, the old MGR is in play. Railways except light rails are not good with passengers or containers.They are great for bulk cargo.SGR start transporting bulk cargo the last Q...and we can expect profitability on that segment because rails can do up to 70 tonnes while roads max out at 30.We are talking clinker, cement, cereals,minerals etc.We definitely need more railways..esp modern Nairobi light rail.That should cost around 1B dollars.Uhuru need to embark on that...as we wait for Uganda to commit.
But the question is, what can SGR cargo business do that the meter gauge railway can’t?
Everyone is on SGR... Standardized... coz nobody is making rolling stock for mgr...how obtuse can some of you be.MGR was built by Brits 120yrs when Kenya was about 1m and GDP about nothing.Argue about other stuff...solid infrastructure like sgr will Outlast you grand kids
How much of Africa railways is SGR?
SGR may be the newer standard but Kenya missed nothing before SGR. Much of the word ‘bulk cargo’ is still on meter gauge rails.
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Digital silk road to oppression has run into headwinds. Kenyan briefcase churches preaching against this evil with gusto.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/01/22/we-need-to-get-smart-about-how-governments-use-ai-pub-78179
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2017-05/16/content_29372143.htm
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Digital silk road to oppression has run into headwinds. Kenyan briefcase churches preaching against this evil with gusto.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/01/22/we-need-to-get-smart-about-how-governments-use-ai-pub-78179
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2017-05/16/content_29372143.htm
Ha ha. RV Pundit - when noone but you sees the magic must you wonder why.
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Didn't read the link. But Huwaei investing 17B in Konza is great news. If Koreans put their money down - too - Konza could get off grounds. I have dealt with your kind of negativos for 20yrs - people who enjoy bad news about kenya - and want to deride kenya progess - during that time - kenya GDP has nearly grown 10 times - as their gripe has also grown ten times - still waiting for Raila to become PORK.
Digital silk road to oppression has run into headwinds. Kenyan briefcase churches preaching against this evil with gusto.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/01/22/we-need-to-get-smart-about-how-governments-use-ai-pub-78179
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2017-05/16/content_29372143.htm
Ha ha. RV Pundit - when noone but you sees the magic must you wonder why.
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Didn't read the link. But Huwaei investing 17B in Konza is great news. If Koreans put their money down - too - Konza could get off grounds. I have dealt with your kind of negativos for 20yrs - people who enjoy bad news about kenya - and want to deride kenya progess - during that time - kenya GDP has nearly grown 10 times - as their gripe has also grown ten times - still waiting for Raila to become PORK.
No need to get emotional; try to consider things independently of Raila and the usual nonsensical politics.
The story of Konza City has been going on for how long? How much progress has been made on the "Lego-land" Fantastic City (see images and descriptions on Google)? Silicon Savanah and what-not. Looking at the Konza city webpages, the only thing that seems to change is the list of tenders on the right.
Konza City is dumb for a variety of reasons, starting with "build, and they will come". (The lessons on that will be learned the hard way, when nobody serious shows up on that dusty patch in Nowhere). And then there's the endless "planning" and "tendering" and "this will be done by <insert-date>" ...
Here's some progress for you :-)
2015:
2017:
2018:
And so on ... And this is just the first building.
Korea, China, blah-blah? Look, everyone out there knows that nothing serious can be done in a country where the focus of the leaders in on robbing the public, and the focus on the followers is "our man". Sure, there will be money coming into Kenya, but that''s only because some money should (supposedly) come into Africa, and Kenya is, arguably, the best of a bad lot. The kind of money some Kenyans are so excited about is pocket-change to the source and increasingly not that big even in Kenya.
Remember that 700km wall that turned into a 700km fence that turned into a 10km fence (which cost of US$ 35 million)? All of which has already been forgotten. As have been the plans to use revolutionize healthcare delivery through "mobile units" that turned out to be useless containers. As have been ... That's Our Great Country.
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But usually you have a few sidekicks. SGR even vooke the priest, GeeMail, patel the new Ruto disciples don't see your 50-100yr vision.
Didn't read the link. But Huwaei investing 17B in Konza is great news. If Koreans put their money down - too - Konza could get off grounds. I have dealt with your kind of negativos for 20yrs - people who enjoy bad news about kenya - and want to deride kenya progess - during that time - kenya GDP has nearly grown 10 times - as their gripe has also grown ten times - still waiting for Raila to become PORK.
Digital silk road to oppression has run into headwinds. Kenyan briefcase churches preaching against this evil with gusto.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/01/22/we-need-to-get-smart-about-how-governments-use-ai-pub-78179
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2017-05/16/content_29372143.htm
Ha ha. RV Pundit - when noone but you sees the magic must you wonder why.
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The soundness of arguments sway me; not the number of people supporting xyz.
But usually you have a few sidekicks. SGR even vooke the priest, GeeMail, patel the new Ruto disciples don't see your 50-100yr vision.
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Thanks to visionary like Ndemo - Kenya ICT sector is now attracting more investment - than any in Africa. Last year they tracked nearly 40B kshs worth of deals. All this started when small talk of Silicon Savanah. If you go back 10yrs - you're talking about 3-4B dollars worth of FDI flowing to the sector.
As regard to Konza - there has been progress - at least on horizontal infrastructure ---- and we have two firm commitments - from KASIT of South Korea (10B or about) to build a science and tech college - and from Huwaei now (17B).
Outside Egypt and Rwanda - nobody else is building a techno city - and we know we are right inside a tech revolution.
We need to invest more into Konza - the locaton isn't ideal - but it's a futuristic idea - just like Lapset.
Didn't read the link. But Huwaei investing 17B in Konza is great news. If Koreans put their money down - too - Konza could get off grounds. I have dealt with your kind of negativos for 20yrs - people who enjoy bad news about kenya - and want to deride kenya progess - during that time - kenya GDP has nearly grown 10 times - as their gripe has also grown ten times - still waiting for Raila to become PORK.
No need to get emotional; try to consider things independently of Raila and the usual nonsensical politics.
The story of Konza City has been going on for how long? How much progress has been made on the "Lego-land" Fantastic City (see images and descriptions on Google)? Silicon Savanah and what-not. Looking at the Konza city webpages, the only thing that seems to change is the list of tenders on the right.
Konza City is dumb for a variety of reasons, starting with "build, and they will come". (The lessons on that will be learned the hard way, when nobody serious shows up on that dusty patch in Nowhere). And then there's the endless "planning" and "tendering" and "this will be done by <insert-date>" ...
Here's some progress for you :-)
2015:
2017:
2018:
And so on ... And this is just the first building.
Korea, China, blah-blah? Look, everyone out there knows that nothing serious can be done in a country where the focus of the leaders in on robbing the public, and the focus on the followers is "our man". Sure, there will be money coming into Kenya, but that''s only because some money should (supposedly) come into Africa, and Kenya is, arguably, the best of a bad lot. The kind of money some Kenyans are so excited about is pocket-change to the source and increasingly not that big even in Kenya.
Remember that 700km wall that turned into a 700km fence that turned into a 10km fence (which cost of US$ 35 million)? All of which has already been forgotten. As have been the plans to use revolutionize healthcare delivery through "mobile units" that turned out to be useless containers. As have been ... That's Our Great Country.
-
Thanks to visionary like Ndemo - Kenya ICT sector is now attracting more investment - than any in Africa. Last year they tracked nearly 40B kshs worth of deals. All this started when small talk of Silicon Savanah. If you go back 10yrs - you're talking about 3-4B dollars worth of FDI flowing to the sector.
As regard to Konza - there has been progress - at least on horizontal infrastructure ---- and we have two firm commitments - from KASIT of South Korea (10B or about) to build a science and tech college - and from Huwaei now (17B).
Outside Egypt and Rwanda - nobody else is building a techno city - and we know we are right inside a tech revolution.
We need to invest more into Konza - the locaton isn't ideal - but it's a futuristic idea - just like Lapset.
Didn't read the link. But Huwaei investing 17B in Konza is great news. If Koreans put their money down - too - Konza could get off grounds. I have dealt with your kind of negativos for 20yrs - people who enjoy bad news about kenya - and want to deride kenya progess - during that time - kenya GDP has nearly grown 10 times - as their gripe has also grown ten times - still waiting for Raila to become PORK.
No need to get emotional; try to consider things independently of Raila and the usual nonsensical politics.
The story of Konza City has been going on for how long? How much progress has been made on the "Lego-land" Fantastic City (see images and descriptions on Google)? Silicon Savanah and what-not. Looking at the Konza city webpages, the only thing that seems to change is the list of tenders on the right.
Konza City is dumb for a variety of reasons, starting with "build, and they will come". (The lessons on that will be learned the hard way, when nobody serious shows up on that dusty patch in Nowhere). And then there's the endless "planning" and "tendering" and "this will be done by <insert-date>" ...
Here's some progress for you :-)
2015:
2017:
2018:
And so on ... And this is just the first building.
Korea, China, blah-blah? Look, everyone out there knows that nothing serious can be done in a country where the focus of the leaders in on robbing the public, and the focus on the followers is "our man". Sure, there will be money coming into Kenya, but that''s only because some money should (supposedly) come into Africa, and Kenya is, arguably, the best of a bad lot. The kind of money some Kenyans are so excited about is pocket-change to the source and increasingly not that big even in Kenya.
Remember that 700km wall that turned into a 700km fence that turned into a 10km fence (which cost of US$ 35 million)? All of which has already been forgotten. As have been the plans to use revolutionize healthcare delivery through "mobile units" that turned out to be useless containers. As have been ... That's Our Great Country.
It’s almost obvious that all countries including Somalia are experiencing a surge in tech investment. Who can’t appreciate its value?
The fact that Kenya’s ICT sector is growing without phantom Konza tells you you don’t need ghost cities in the middle of nowhere to bring in ICT money
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You've never heard of economies of locations? Why is Silicon valley, Raleigh, Bangalore and even Dubai attracting more tech investment and all the random cities with random companies. Konza once it get off ground - and it will - will bring the economies of scale/locations - that will make it the Silicon valley of Africa. We just need to invest more on this. But we cannot without likes of Ndemo - visionaries who can see 30-50yrs from now. Not most of your with your tunnel vision.
It’s almost obvious that all countries including Somalia are experiencing a surge in tech investment. Who can’t appreciate its value?
The fact that Kenya’s ICT sector is growing without phantom Konza tells you you don’t need ghost cities in the middle of nowhere to bring in ICT money
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If you go back 10yrs - you're talking about 3-4B dollars worth of FDI flowing to the sector.
I assume the number is over 10 years, in which case, like I said "some money should (supposedly) come into Africa, and Kenya is, arguably, the best of a bad lot". Overall, Kenya's attraction of FDI is, as Trump would say, "sad!".
As regard to Konza - there has been progress - at least on horizontal infrastructure ---- and we have two firm commitments - from KASIT of South Korea (10B or about) to build a science and tech college - and from Huwaei now (17B).
Wow, wow, wow! Slow down there, buddy. The "firm commitment" from KAIST is---all "10B or about"---is actually (usual story) a loan to Kenya (from the Korean Exim Bank). Has the agreement on that loan been signed? Once the agreement is signed, I'm sure the KAIST types will be more than happy to enjoy some of their own money. One thing we can be sure of is that KAIST will not " build a science and tech college". That will be up to Kenyans to do with the loan. And there ends my confidence in "great things just around corner".
I don't as yet know much about the Huawei deal, but "firm commitments" on paper and for photo-ops are sometimes different from rea; firm commitments.
Outside Egypt and Rwanda - nobody else is building a techno city - and we know we are right inside a tech revolution.
Only three of us are doing it, so it must be a revolution. Strange logic.
We need to invest more into Konza - the location isn't ideal - but it's a futuristic idea - just like Lapset.
Location tends to matter quite a bit with such things.
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Kenya's problems begin with the inability to self-build even a minor bridge without China cause 80% of the money will be stolen.
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Nitpicking as usual. We are in tech revolution that is akin to industrial one - and Konza is a long term vision; already we've turned a desolate desert into a promised land. We have two comittment or investment from KAIST and Huwaei - once we get a few more - Konza will get the momentum it needs.
If you go back 10yrs - you're talking about 3-4B dollars worth of FDI flowing to the sector.
I assume the number is over 10 years, in which case, like I said "some money should (supposedly) come into Africa, and Kenya is, arguably, the best of a bad lot". Overall, Kenya's attraction of FDI is, as Trump would say, "sad!".
As regard to Konza - there has been progress - at least on horizontal infrastructure ---- and we have two firm commitments - from KASIT of South Korea (10B or about) to build a science and tech college - and from Huwaei now (17B).
Wow, wow, wow! Slow down there, buddy. The "firm commitment" from KAIST is---all "10B or about"---is actually (usual story) a loan to Kenya (from the Korean Exim Bank). Has the agreement on that loan been signed? Once the agreement is signed, I'm sure the KAIST types will be more than happy to enjoy some of their own money. One thing we can be sure of is that KAIST will not " build a science and tech college". That will be up to Kenyans to do with the loan. And there ends my confidence in "great things just around corner".
I don't as yet know much about the Huawei deal, but "firm commitments" on paper and for photo-ops are sometimes different from rea; firm commitments.
Outside Egypt and Rwanda - nobody else is building a techno city - and we know we are right inside a tech revolution.
Only three of us are doing it, so it must be a revolution. Strange logic.
We need to invest more into Konza - the location isn't ideal - but it's a futuristic idea - just like Lapset.
Location tends to matter quite a bit with such things.
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Nitpicking as usual. We are in tech revolution that is akin to industrial one - and Konza is a long term vision; already we've turned a desolate desert into a promised land. We have two comittment or investment from KAIST and Huwaei - once we get a few more - Konza will get the momentum it needs.
I too have seen and read the PR. I'll have to get some more information on the Huawei one. I have a bit more information on the Korean one. It all depends on a loan to Kenya. So, the first question, again, is this: has the agreement on that loan been signed yet? Let's start there and then see where we can go.
Which desolate desert has been promised land? Galana so that Kenyans can finally feed themselves? I don't think so. Konza City? Year after year, and with never-ending promises of "first building!", it is still a dusty patch in the middle of nowhere, with nobody in resident. You need to upgrade your idea of a "promised land". :D
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RV Pundit mwanamambo :D
MOON Ki is very right.. the FDI, growth to middle income economy, etc - happen inspite of GoK incompetence. In particular Jubilee's wanton wastage - clumsily adopting Kibakinomics - without his thrift and the post-Moi clean slate. To imagine what $5B could do.. instead it lies there in waste - just so Uhuru can pocket loot. The Dams? oh well! the kickbacks are glittering all around but someone assures us they will soon materialize into reality.
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You're just dishonest. If economy just grew without Jubilee - why wasn't it doing as good during previous regime.Jubilee have done way better than Kibaki regime. The evidence is staring at you - but you twist, turn and do all sort of acrobatics to deny the obvious - Jubilee 1.0 did a great job - all thanks to the brilliance, the discipline and the execution of dynamic duo - Uhuru is the big picture guy - Ruto is the hands on get it done.
Fact is Jubilee inherited at 50-55B in 2013/2014 - and by end of this year - the economy will have exceeded 100B dollars - average growth of nearly 6 %.
RV Pundit mwanamambo :D
MOON Ki is very right.. the FDI, growth to middle income economy, etc - happen inspite of GoK incompetence. In particular Jubilee's wanton wastage - clumsily adopting Kibakinomics - without his thrift and the post-Moi clean slate. To imagine what $5B could do.. instead it lies there in waste - just so Uhuru can pocket loot. The Dams? oh well! the kickbacks are glittering all around but someone assures us they will soon materialize into reality.
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Run $55B at 5.6% over 5yrs see if you get 100B... who's really the spinner here? 8)
We all admit some easy wins by Jubilee - free maternity, TIVET, FSE, good pri-2-sec transition, rural & city roads; - i could add last-mile but the results yet in are not all that. Folks still burning charcoal & firewood tells you they don't use power cos it too costly. The common thread about the solid achievements is they needed no mega-loan from the Chinese or Eurobonds.
Now don't get us started again on the thud SGR cheque. I don't oppose stuff like Konza - good idea poor execution esp under Jubilee. Uhuruto don't hold a candle to Kibadinga - plain truth. If you just consider the misplaced SGR, voodoo dams, Galana GMOs, debt mountain - the incompetence and heartlessness involved - you find not just Fat Joe Uhuru but your hero is no visionary nor efficient nor anything heroic. His dams are Pattni fake gold. :) Ruto is just Moi with a PhD in corruption.
You're just dishonest. If economy just grew without Jubilee - why wasn't it doing as good during previous regime.Jubilee have done way better than Kibaki regime. The evidence is staring at you - but you twist, turn and do all sort of acrobatics to deny the obvious - Jubilee 1.0 did a great job - all thanks to the brilliance, the discipline and the execution of dynamic duo - Uhuru is the big picture guy - Ruto is the hands on get it done.
Fact is Jubilee inherited at 50-55B in 2013/2014 - and by end of this year - the economy will have exceeded 100B dollars - average growth of nearly 6 %.
RV Pundit mwanamambo :D
MOON Ki is very right.. the FDI, growth to middle income economy, etc - happen inspite of GoK incompetence. In particular Jubilee's wanton wastage - clumsily adopting Kibakinomics - without his thrift and the post-Moi clean slate. To imagine what $5B could do.. instead it lies there in waste - just so Uhuru can pocket loot. The Dams? oh well! the kickbacks are glittering all around but someone assures us they will soon materialize into reality.
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Nominal GDP is product of growth rate and currency appreciation or depriciation against the USD. Jubilee have done very well macro-economically that is why we have low interest (albeit capped), very stable currency (Africa strongest) and inflation way below target. So nominal gdp has grown by 6% and currency has appreciated by another 2-3% year on year - from highs from 107 (at one point in Kibaki era when Kimunya was pulling his hairs) to now when it's been stable at 100.
You cannot deny that Jubilee execution has been very good - at least in 1.0 - gov operated like mean machined. SGR is BIGGEST - and will define Uhuru. Uhuru delivered the railway in 3yrs to MSA. That is unprecedented in these shores. Uhuru had to sit in monthly if not weekly meetings to clear roadblocks. Ruto basically dusted NARA idea of road annuity and got the new road designs for low volume road done & dusted - and took it on - they got into problems - and they worked on that - I know Ps Mosonik - the man was working all weekends - and Ruto was working the phones - the results 7,000 new roads - all the previous regime in 50yrs managed to construct only 11,000kms!!. Talk about electricity - UhuRuto were all over - in very humbles abodes of poor kenya - connecting electricty. The results is has been duped the WORLD FASTEST ELECTRIFICATION -faster than when US was electrifying. Jubilee found I think about 2.4M KPLC (about 30%) connections - by now it's well into 7M(70%). And they haven't done 10yrs. The same with electricity generations....jubilee have nearly double capacity...they targetted 5,000MW but demand flattered..but still got nearly 3,000Mw.
Don't even talk about dams. Jubilee have constructed according to Ruto about 6,000 small dams and water pan, 57 Mega dams are under construction (including one that will fix Kulana Galana lack of sufficient water in river galana).
Such a shame Uhuru has allowed Raila to bring his confusion to a mean machine that was working.
Let not talk about laptops ; all schools electrified; tablets and laptops for teacher delivered.
Let not talk about many other projects - including devolution -
Alchoholism and other social ills have also been dealt with.
Jubilee delivered smart cameras in Nairobi and Mombasa...10B plus Huwaei project.
The economy has grown - and it's self evident.
Run $55B at 5.6% over 5yrs see if you get 100B... who's really the spinner here? 8)
We all admit some easy wins by Jubilee - free maternity, TIVET, FSE, good pri-2-sec transition, rural & city roads; - i could add last-mile but the results yet in are not all that. Folks still burning charcoal & firewood tells you they don't use power cos it too costly. The common thread about the solid achievements is they needed no mega-loan from the Chinese or Eurobonds.
Now don't get us started again on the thud SGR cheque. I don't oppose stuff like Konza - good idea poor execution esp under Jubilee. Uhuruto don't hold a candle to Kibadinga - plain truth. If you just consider the misplaced SGR, voodoo dams, Galana GMOs, debt mountain - the incompetence and heartlessness involved - you find not just Fat Joe Uhuru but your hero is no visionary nor efficient nor anything heroic. His dams are Pattni fake gold. :) Ruto is just Moi with a PhD in corruption.
You're just dishonest. If economy just grew without Jubilee - why wasn't it doing as good during previous regime.Jubilee have done way better than Kibaki regime. The evidence is staring at you - but you twist, turn and do all sort of acrobatics to deny the obvious - Jubilee 1.0 did a great job - all thanks to the brilliance, the discipline and the execution of dynamic duo - Uhuru is the big picture guy - Ruto is the hands on get it done.
Fact is Jubilee inherited at 50-55B in 2013/2014 - and by end of this year - the economy will have exceeded 100B dollars - average growth of nearly 6 %.
RV Pundit mwanamambo :D
MOON Ki is very right.. the FDI, growth to middle income economy, etc - happen inspite of GoK incompetence. In particular Jubilee's wanton wastage - clumsily adopting Kibakinomics - without his thrift and the post-Moi clean slate. To imagine what $5B could do.. instead it lies there in waste - just so Uhuru can pocket loot. The Dams? oh well! the kickbacks are glittering all around but someone assures us they will soon materialize into reality.
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Pundit so where are the 6000 dams? Folks were dehydrating n starving to death barely a fortnite ago - all usual ASAL places - until the rains fell from heaven. Do the dams have teething problems?
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Elec.. we said "last-center" - to schools or villagetowns is ok. Peasants are better off with dirt cheap M-kopa solar - which Ruto if he was not a fake genius would have partnered with. The cost speaks for itself - why was Ngilu kicking out Gema from her charcoal economy - with all the last-miles? Deforestation is not only fueled by Ruto backwardness of "mvua inatoka mbinguni" or corruption - but demand from peasants who can't afford power. These are the millions of households that have never flipped the bulb - KPLC meters read zero.
You see, just like SGR - development is not the buildings and the steel or the power lines - it's THINKING - is off-grid power better? is new SGR necessary? can we restore forest cover? Ruto or Uhuru long meetings - or office 5am - mean nothing so long as their thinking is mediocre.
This is what I mean by Jubilee is hare-brained - most stuff is sub-optimal or out of place. We can debate about the ground effect of "6% growth", "$100B", "upper middle income" - hyperbole peddled by Ruto and the lurkies he has bought for cheap - Khalwales, Kurias n Nyoros - @30 pieces of silver.
Survey after survey - Wanjiku n Chebet or Khadija are not feeling anything good from all these "growth" - in fact they are worse off - straight from the horses mouth.
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Jubilee (partyly Nara) have removed 10% of kenya (4M) from poverty - poverty rate has dropped from 46% to 35% now from 2006 to 2015 - absolute poverty has also reduced.
Mkopa and all the NGO nonsense don't work. Except very few. I have done a lot of evaluation of these NGOS - and despite all billions of dollars sunk - there is simply no impact - and if any it's mostly negative impact
What works is completing those 57 mega dams - that will provide water to many areas and also provide irrigations. Small little water project except gravity one have been shown to be just ineffective and too costly. The same with little off-grid or solar systems - they are just stop gap measures.
Ultimately we need to invest in REAL INFRASTRUCTURE - not little gadget to works sometimes - but whenever possible people need roads, rails, electricity,water, sewage....and we have to SPEND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
Elec.. we said "last-center" - to schools or villagetowns is ok. Peasants are better off with dirt cheap M-kopa solar - which Ruto if he was not a fake genius would have partnered with. The cost speaks for itself - why was Ngilu kicking out Gema from her charcoal economy - with all the last-miles? Deforestation is not only fueled by Ruto backwardness of "mvua inatoka mbinguni" or corruption - but demand from peasants who can't afford power. These are the millions of households that have never flipped the bulb - KPLC meters read zero.
You see, just like SGR - development is not the buildings and the steel or the power lines - it's THINKING - is off-grid power better? is new SGR necessary? can we restore forest cover? Ruto or Uhuru long meetings - or office 5am - mean nothing so long as their thinking is mediocre.
This is what I mean by Jubilee is hare-brained - most stuff is sub-optimal or out of place. We can debate about the ground effect of "6% growth", "$100B", "upper middle income" - hyperbole peddled by Ruto and the lurkies he has bought for cheap - Khalwales, Kurias n Nyoros - @30 pieces of silver.
Survey after survey - Wanjiku n Chebet or Khadija are not feeling anything good from all these "growth" - in fact they are worse off - straight from the horses mouth.
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Let not talk about laptops ; all schools electrified; tablets and laptops for teacher delivered.
You are not even ashamed to mention that project that failed even before it took off. If only our parliament was working instead of spreading 2022 siasa, it would question where all those billions spent on the project went to.
Let not talk about many other projects - including devolution -
On that issue Jubilee has not try to improve on devolution. Infact the opposite is the fact.
Alchoholism and other social ills have also been dealt with.
:D :D :D
Under Jubilee the new alcoholism is betting. A cancer that is slure and slowly killing the youth of Kenya.
Btw, only Kingdomcome can eradicate social evils.
Jubilee delivered smart cameras in Nairobi and Mombasa...10B plus Huwaei project.
That project is a total failure. Give me one case where crime case was solved using those cameras.
This just like SGR was a project for some persons to eat.
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Where are the 6000 dams and why are people & animals still starving to death? Don't skirt around this.
Any actual complete mega-dam? Last I checked CMC di Rivena was going bankrupt - and Ruto and his crooks had spirited the blood money at Westlands.
Once gain, you list any achievements - and none include big loans in $B range.
Jubilee (partyly Nara) have removed 10% of kenya (4M) from poverty - poverty rate has dropped from 46% to 35% now from 2006 to 2015 - absolute poverty has also reduced.
Mkopa and all the NGO nonsense don't work. Except very few. I have done a lot of evaluation of these NGOS - and despite all billions of dollars sunk - there is simply no impact - and if any it's mostly negative impact
What works is completing those 57 mega dams - that will provide water to many areas and also provide irrigations. Small little water project except gravity one have been shown to be just ineffective and too costly. The same with little off-grid or solar systems - they are just stop gap measures.
Ultimately we need to invest in REAL INFRASTRUCTURE - not little gadget to works sometimes - but whenever possible people need roads, rails, electricity,water, sewage....and we have to SPEND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
Elec.. we said "last-center" - to schools or villagetowns is ok. Peasants are better off with dirt cheap M-kopa solar - which Ruto if he was not a fake genius would have partnered with. The cost speaks for itself - why was Ngilu kicking out Gema from her charcoal economy - with all the last-miles? Deforestation is not only fueled by Ruto backwardness of "mvua inatoka mbinguni" or corruption - but demand from peasants who can't afford power. These are the millions of households that have never flipped the bulb - KPLC meters read zero.
You see, just like SGR - development is not the buildings and the steel or the power lines - it's THINKING - is off-grid power better? is new SGR necessary? can we restore forest cover? Ruto or Uhuru long meetings - or office 5am - mean nothing so long as their thinking is mediocre.
This is what I mean by Jubilee is hare-brained - most stuff is sub-optimal or out of place. We can debate about the ground effect of "6% growth", "$100B", "upper middle income" - hyperbole peddled by Ruto and the lurkies he has bought for cheap - Khalwales, Kurias n Nyoros - @30 pieces of silver.
Survey after survey - Wanjiku n Chebet or Khadija are not feeling anything good from all these "growth" - in fact they are worse off - straight from the horses mouth.
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Kadudu don't interrupt the party. Anything to sanctify Jubilee & Ruto's incompetence - Uhuru is thrown in for flavor. The amazing low bar Pundit holds for Jubilee so he can paint Regular Joe as Kagame.
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Pundit has become Jubilee's court poet. Worse than Peter Oloo Aringo those days of arap Moi.
Kadudu don't interrupt the party. Anything to sanctify Jubilee & Ruto's incompetence - Uhuru is thrown in for flavor. The amazing low bar Pundit holds for Jubilee so he can paint Regular Joe as Kagame.
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In his defense i understand he would be a straight beneficiary in Rutocracy.
Pundit has become Jubilee's court poet. Worse than Peter Oloo Aringo those days of arap Moi.
Kadudu don't interrupt the party. Anything to sanctify Jubilee & Ruto's incompetence - Uhuru is thrown in for flavor. The amazing low bar Pundit holds for Jubilee so he can paint Regular Joe as Kagame.
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Rotich: 61 per cent of your tax will go to debt repayment from July
Half of the expected total revenue collection including appropriation-in-aid of Sh2.1 trillion during the financial year will be spent on loan repayment.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/E-76BZTVprKdSQkBWoz9cn1zqPWG-cE5VNGGSZsPq5rmW7dK_AKF2CiKZJAm0Q9DmdHnHgdNCxkEZGNo7C3iw6cBDBFm=s512)
In Summary
The country is expected to spend Sh366.4 billion on interest payment alone.
Debt servicing obligation is expected to rise in the next three years as more loans mature.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-05-02-rotich-61-per-cent-of-your-tax-will-go-to-debt-repayment-from-july/
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Damn lies.
Rotich: 61 per cent of your tax will go to debt repayment from July
Half of the expected total revenue collection including appropriation-in-aid of Sh2.1 trillion during the financial year will be spent on loan repayment.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/E-76BZTVprKdSQkBWoz9cn1zqPWG-cE5VNGGSZsPq5rmW7dK_AKF2CiKZJAm0Q9DmdHnHgdNCxkEZGNo7C3iw6cBDBFm=s512)
In Summary
The country is expected to spend Sh366.4 billion on interest payment alone.
Debt servicing obligation is expected to rise in the next three years as more loans mature.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-05-02-rotich-61-per-cent-of-your-tax-will-go-to-debt-repayment-from-july/
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Then bring us the exact figures if you have insider information from the Treasury.
Damn lies.
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Basic math - 20% of 6T is 1.2T - typical loan repayment p.a. Under Jubilee debt has grown 3X - with revenue 2X. Net hasara.
Then bring us the exact figures if you have insider information from the Treasury.
Damn lies.
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https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Treasury-unveils-Sh2-7trn-budget/1056-5095238-eioxjr/
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Let me break it down for some of you; We intend borrow about 6B dollars and we will use about 5.5B to repay loans. Our loans are about half domestic and half external. In short we are just rolling over debt and adding small bit (about 0.5B) annually. 5.5B is just shy of 30% of 18B KRA has been asked to collect next year.The remainder of the money - around 21B dollars (18B dollars being taxes & 3B being AIA - license fee, fines, small charges by ministries & agencies) - we use about 17B (salaries I think takes around 5B dollars) for recurrent expenditure - leaving about 5B dollars for national development. We also send about 4B to counties...who also reserve about 1-1.5B for development. So in total we are spending about 6B on development - both at counties & national - mostly on building roads (lion share). We have annual infrastructure deficit of maybe 5-6B - so we are not doing badly -- out of 6B - we probably spending 4B on infrastructure - so we just need to add another 2-3B annually to be able to bridge that infrastructure deficit say in 10yrs. This is where Ruto comes in - and sells Safaricom & hopefully more privatization to get extra bucks - we need to build roads, bridges, dams, pipelines, power stations, ports, railways, electricity transmission and water & sewage systems
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Treasury-unveils-Sh2-7trn-budget/1056-5095238-eioxjr/
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Let me break it down for some of you; We intend borrow about 6B dollars and we will use about 5.5B to repay loans. Our loans are about half domestic and half external. In short we are just rolling over debt and adding small bit (about 0.5B) annually. 5.5B is just shy of 30% of 18B KRA has been asked to collect next year.The remainder of the money - around 21B dollars (18B dollars being taxes & 3B being AIA - license fee, fines, small charges by ministries & agencies) - we use about 17B (salaries I think takes around 5B dollars) for recurrent expenditure - leaving about 5B dollars for national development. We also send about 4B to counties...who also reserve about 1-1.5B for development. So in total we are spending about 6B on development - both at counties & national - mostly on building roads (lion share). We have annual infrastructure deficit of maybe 5-6B - so we are not doing badly -- out of 6B - we probably spending 4B on infrastructure - so we just need to add another 2-3B annually to be able to bridge that infrastructure deficit say in 10yrs. This is where Ruto comes in - and sells Safaricom & hopefully more privatization to get extra bucks - we need to build roads, bridges, dams, pipelines, power stations, ports, railways, electricity transmission and water & sewage systems
Nice try you are abit incoherent with the math. Like Ndii. :) So we borrow 6B + collect 18B + 3B AIA = 27B. We repay debt 5.5B + recurrent exp 17B + counties 4B = 26.5B. 0.5B left. National dev 0.5B + Counties dev 1.5B is 2B total on development. Where is the 6B from? Then we borrow 2-3B ("to plug deficit") on top of the 6B we already borrowed? you lost me there.
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This is where Ruto comes in - and sells Safaricom & hopefully more privatization to get extra bucks - we need to build roads, bridges, dams, pipelines, power stations, ports, railways, electricity transmission and water & sewage systems
Again sorry to appraise you but Ruto is not synonymous with development. He is synonymous with corruption - WASTAGE - Mau, dams, name it. Our biggest problem is not capital - so that we need debt - it's that we cannot build efficienty - economically or frugally like Kibaki - because of local graft and incompetence - and so we resort to import everything - capital, expertise, machinery, even material. We do not have excess capital or outstanding enterprise to utilize the infrastructure - we therefore must carefully pare borrow & build with utility. This last part is critical - paring. The Chinese are struggling with excess industrial capacity - which they are offloading on Africa, Latin America, etc - Kenya will not have anywhere to off-load yet debt must be repaid on time.
Kibaki leveraged the post-Moi clean slate - his borrowing and privatization was not a binge - it was well calculated unlike Jubilee. Development is not buildings or steel or physical infrastructure - it's the investment with the best utility at the right time. In 2000 this was roads and FPE which Kibaki did very well. Right now it is city metro subway and such areas - and not railway or sewers :). Sewer will not attract invest. I would say FSE & TIVET - and fund research at Uni level.
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Long story short - matters economy - are measured by GDP GROWTH RATE. The rest of details.
This is where Ruto comes in - and sells Safaricom & hopefully more privatization to get extra bucks - we need to build roads, bridges, dams, pipelines, power stations, ports, railways, electricity transmission and water & sewage systems
Again sorry to appraise you but Ruto is not synonymous with development. He is synonymous with corruption - WASTAGE - Mau, dams, name it. Our biggest problem is not capital - so that we need debt - it's that we cannot build efficienty - economically or frugally like Kibaki - because of local graft and incompetence - and so we resort to import everything - capital, expertise, machinery, even material. We do not have excess capital or outstanding enterprise to utilize the infrastructure - we therefore must carefully pare borrow & build with utility. This last part is critical - paring. The Chinese are struggling with excess industrial capacity - which they are offloading on Africa, Latin America, etc - Kenya will not have anywhere to off-load yet debt must be repaid on time.
Kibaki leveraged the post-Moi clean slate - his borrowing and privatization was not a binge - it was well calculated unlike Jubilee. Development is not buildings or steel or physical infrastructure - it's the investment with the best utility at the right time. In 2000 this was roads and FPE which Kibaki did very well. Right now it is city metro subway and such areas - and not railway or sewers :). Sewer will not attract invest. I would say FSE & TIVET - and fund research at Uni level.
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Says who - some author from Havard? Do you measure your personal growth by the pay check - or net income v spend? Gross NET Income is what matters - ergo Jubilee has not grown Kenya. If you must borrow you do it frugally - and this principle applies squarely at individual, corporate, county or national level.
Long story short - matters economy - are measured by GDP GROWTH RATE. The rest of details.
This is where Ruto comes in - and sells Safaricom & hopefully more privatization to get extra bucks - we need to build roads, bridges, dams, pipelines, power stations, ports, railways, electricity transmission and water & sewage systems
Again sorry to appraise you but Ruto is not synonymous with development. He is synonymous with corruption - WASTAGE - Mau, dams, name it. Our biggest problem is not capital - so that we need debt - it's that we cannot build efficienty - economically or frugally like Kibaki - because of local graft and incompetence - and so we resort to import everything - capital, expertise, machinery, even material. We do not have excess capital or outstanding enterprise to utilize the infrastructure - we therefore must carefully pare borrow & build with utility. This last part is critical - paring. The Chinese are struggling with excess industrial capacity - which they are offloading on Africa, Latin America, etc - Kenya will not have anywhere to off-load yet debt must be repaid on time.
Kibaki leveraged the post-Moi clean slate - his borrowing and privatization was not a binge - it was well calculated unlike Jubilee. Development is not buildings or steel or physical infrastructure - it's the investment with the best utility at the right time. In 2000 this was roads and FPE which Kibaki did very well. Right now it is city metro subway and such areas - and not railway or sewers :). Sewer will not attract invest. I would say FSE & TIVET - and fund research at Uni level.
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Look like you're in argumentative season - where you want to dispute anything.GDP has been the main tool for measuring economic activity since 1944 when IMF & WB were established. Everyone and their grandmother knows the best measure of nation economy is GDP growth rate. In this case - Jubilee averages around 6% (round off) - and we haven't re-based yet (IMF/WB recommend 5yr rebasing circle - we try to stick to 10yrs in Kenya).
Says who - some author from Havard? Do you measure your personal growth by the pay check - or net income v spend? Gross NET Income is what matters - ergo Jubilee has not grown Kenya. If you must borrow you do it frugally - and this principle applies squarely at individual, corporate, county or national level.
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That's wrong - GDP - at face value. You have HDI, Gini index and other equally established metrics. HDI is actually the most useful measure of development. With corruption and massive debt - GDP is not all that sorry - cause HDI and Gini as measures of inequality - are no good. Investment choices matter. Corruption of course remain a major impediment - as the driver of inequality.
Look like you're in argumentative season - where you want to dispute anything.GDP has been the main tool for measuring economic activity since 1944 when IMF & WB were established. Everyone and their grandmother knows the best measure of nation economy is GDP growth rate. In this case - Jubilee averages around 6% (round off) - and we haven't re-based yet (IMF/WB recommend 5yr rebasing circle - we try to stick to 10yrs in Kenya).
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It so much fun smoking Ruto - the Snake in the Garden. :)
Look like you're in argumentative season - where you want to dispute anything.GDP has been the main tool for measuring economic activity since 1944 when IMF & WB were established. Everyone and their grandmother knows the best measure of nation economy is GDP growth rate. In this case - Jubilee averages around 6% (round off) - and we haven't re-based yet (IMF/WB recommend 5yr rebasing circle - we try to stick to 10yrs in Kenya).
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Okay let talk HDI - which isn't restricted to the economy - but takes in other data.
https://countryeconomy.com/hdi/kenya
Moi had stagnated HDI at 0.45 or around.
Kibaki took us from 0.47 - to 0.56 - about 0.1 HDI improvement. Kibaki started from a very low base - 2002!
Jubilee took us from 0.56 - to 0.59(as of 2017)- from 145 country rank - we are now 142.
Jubilee has now firmly placed kenya on the medium HDI ranking.
That's wrong - GDP - at face value. You have HDI, Gini index and other equally established metrics. HDI is actually the most useful measure of development. With corruption and massive debt - GDP is not all that sorry - cause HDI and Gini as measures of inequality - are no good. Investment choices matter. Corruption of course remain a major impediment - as the driver of inequality.
Look like you're in argumentative season - where you want to dispute anything.GDP has been the main tool for measuring economic activity since 1944 when IMF & WB were established. Everyone and their grandmother knows the best measure of nation economy is GDP growth rate. In this case - Jubilee averages around 6% (round off) - and we haven't re-based yet (IMF/WB recommend 5yr rebasing circle - we try to stick to 10yrs in Kenya).
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Let not talk about laptops ; all schools electrified; tablets and laptops for teacher delivered.
You need to talk to some of the "ignorant" people who write stuff like this about Jubilee's great "successes":
26 Feb 2019
The Kenyan government has suspended its over Ksh 17 billion plus school laptop project which was announced by president Uhuru Kenyatta and his deputy in 2013 as a campaign promise.
The Jubilee Laptop Programme or Digital Literacy Programme as it was commonly known promised to distribute laptops to Class One kids in Kenya’s 25,000 public primary schools in the first three years of existence. However, by mid last year only about 19,000 public primary schools had received the tablets causing the Ministry of Education to suspend the project and instead build a computer laboratory per school.
“There has been a policy change in programme from one child-one laptop to the construction of computer laboratories for ICT integration,”
https://sun-connect-ea.org/kenya-suspends-its-ksh-17-billion-one-laptop-per-child-programme/
Labs instead of one-laptop per child? I seem to remember that being suggested way back when.
July 2018
Big hurdles thwart Jubilee’s laptops plan
When President Uhuru Kenyatta announced in 2013 that all the 1.2 million Class One pupils would get laptops, educationists proposed instead that the government consider building computer laboratories.
Being an election year, however, the politics of expediency held sway.
Of failed school laptop project and sobering lessons it offers.
Five years after the projected launch of the primary schools laptop project, the government has finally admitted it is not viable. Instead, the Ministry of Education plans to set up one computer laboratory for each of the 25,000 primary schools across Kenya.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001314435/of-failed-school-laptop-project-and-sobering-lessons-it-offers
How Uhuru's Sh24.6 billion laptops project collapsed
... a number of critics had floated the idea of constructing Information and Communications Technology labs in schools but the proposal was rejected by the government.
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Why-schools-laptop-project-failed/1056-5000062-10b9yum/index.html
(Oh, schools being electrified is all very well, but that wasn't the main objective, and, had it been, it certainly could have been done without the extra joke expense of the laptops or tablets or whatever.)
Spin away, but reality is what it is.
(https://kenyastockholm.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/laptops-for-everyone.gif?w=300)
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I am happy they tried. They actually managed to pull it through for first year. That entailed a lot of electrification, trainings and roll out. Now those tablets and laptops & audio-visual - will continue to be used - until they die.
Countries that succeeded embraced POLICY EXPERIMENTATION. This was a bold move. I am very happy they even thought about it.
Countries that succeeded also knows when to cut the loses and run. If evidence suggest - we need computer labs - go for it.
Ultimately we need the kids taught those skills. My yr 4 (9 yr old) kid is already being taught coding (C++) and you expect public school kids to compete how?
We need a lot of policy experimentation. Who knew what M-pesa would eventually turned out if Prof at CBK then didn't give them a chance?
The laptop project results will be apparent in 20yrs - not now. When computer savvy kenyan kids from all over face the world in a decade - there will be a huge difference with say their Uganda counterparts.
Let not talk about laptops ; all schools electrified; tablets and laptops for teacher delivered.
You need to talk to some of the "ignorant" people who write stuff like this about Jubilee's great "successes":
26 Feb 2019
The Kenyan government has suspended its over Ksh 17 billion plus school laptop project which was announced by president Uhuru Kenyatta and his deputy in 2013 as a campaign promise.
The Jubilee Laptop Programme or Digital Literacy Programme as it was commonly known promised to distribute laptops to Class One kids in Kenya’s 25,000 public primary schools in the first three years of existence. However, by mid last year only about 19,000 public primary schools had received the tablets causing the Ministry of Education to suspend the project and instead build a computer laboratory per school.
“There has been a policy change in programme from one child-one laptop to the construction of computer laboratories for ICT integration,”
https://sun-connect-ea.org/kenya-suspends-its-ksh-17-billion-one-laptop-per-child-programme/
Labs instead of one-laptop per child? I seem to remember that being suggested way back when.
July 2018
Big hurdles thwart Jubilee’s laptops plan
When President Uhuru Kenyatta announced in 2013 that all the 1.2 million Class One pupils would get laptops, educationists proposed instead that the government consider building computer laboratories.
Being an election year, however, the politics of expediency held sway.
Of failed school laptop project and sobering lessons it offers.
Five years after the projected launch of the primary schools laptop project, the government has finally admitted it is not viable. Instead, the Ministry of Education plans to set up one computer laboratory for each of the 25,000 primary schools across Kenya.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001314435/of-failed-school-laptop-project-and-sobering-lessons-it-offers
How Uhuru's Sh24.6 billion laptops project collapsed
... a number of critics had floated the idea of constructing Information and Communications Technology labs in schools but the proposal was rejected by the government.
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Why-schools-laptop-project-failed/1056-5000062-10b9yum/index.html
(Oh, schools being electrified is all very well, but that wasn't the main objective, and, had it been, it certainly could have been done without the extra joke expense of the laptops or tablets or whatever.)
Spin away, but reality is what it is.
(https://kenyastockholm.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/laptops-for-everyone.gif?w=300)
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On GDP growth. Last year 6.3% gdp growth was driven by agriculture, manufacturing and transport https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Kenya-s-GDP-growth-rebounds-to-6-3pc-in-2018/3946234-5087360-1wy5djz/index.html . Transport grew by 8.8% a 5 yr high. But there's a caveat, from the horses mouth https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001322719/how-kenya-hit-6-3pc-growth-in-economy "Rotich said the transport sector was second after agriculture. Injecting Sh711 billion into the Kenyan economy, with part of the push coming in from the Standard Gauge Railway.
“One of the key sub-sectors that contributed to this growth is rail freight traffic, that more than tripled to 3,544 thousand tonnes in 2018, mainly due to the introduction of freight transportation services on the SGR,” he said.
More cargo
Pushing more cargo to the SGR enabled the State to capture the contribution of the transport sector, which has previously been majorly informal."
So technically there was no actual 8.8% growth on the sector its only that now knbs is able to capture that data. If all matatu business was all of sudden cashless using mobile money the sector would probably grow by at least 25%. But in reality it would have been the usual 3% average driven by population growth and overall health of the economy. Its the same take that we end up with stats showing jubilee has doubled kenya economy while the truth is we are now being able to capture more data getting a full reflection of the size of kenya economy.
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Most public schools have a "Computer Class" in the curriculum. Not examinable. There is one physical class equipped with desktops, printers, projector - and one instructor. Class 4 to 8 kids get trained one lesson per week. With FSE high schoolz need to step up to some advanced IT lessons. We could end up with serious talent once the digital divide is nailed. Good chance - of a few Gateses and Jobses emerging - no guarantees of course. We have a mixed bag of say athletics and agriculture - both start with a level ground compared to the west - but on anything that need thinking we swiftly sank to the bottom.
Even with Jubilee & Ruto incompetence I see good potential in the laptop thing.
I am happy they tried. They actually managed to pull it through for first year. That entailed a lot of electrification, trainings and roll out. Now those tablets and laptops & audio-visual - will continue to be used - until they die.
Countries that succeeded embraced POLICY EXPERIMENTATION. This was a bold move. I am very happy they even thought about it.
Countries that succeeded also knows when to cut the loses and run. If evidence suggest - we need computer labs - go for it.
Ultimately we need the kids taught those skills. My yr 4 (9 yr old) kid is already being taught coding (C++) and you expect public school kids to compete how?
We need a lot of policy experimentation. Who knew what M-pesa would eventually turned out if Prof at CBK then didn't give them a chance?
The laptop project results will be apparent in 20yrs - not now. When computer savvy kenyan kids from all over face the world in a decade - there will be a huge difference with say their Uganda counterparts.
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I am happy they tried. They actually managed to pull it through for first year.
A huge problem is that nobody ever thought past the past year.
Now those tablets and laptops & audio-visual - will continue to be used - until they die.
Jubilee has invented hardware devices that last forever? Amazing.
Countries that succeeded embraced POLICY EXPERIMENTATION.
Do those countries, which must be the ones Kenyans begs and borrows from, indulge in every dumb and expensive idea that strikes some "leader's" fancy?
If evidence suggest - we need computer labs - go for it.
Common sense suggested that right at beginning.
We need a lot of policy experimentation. Who knew what M-pesa would eventually turned out if Prof at CBK then didn't give them a chance?
"Something over there exceeded our expectations. So let's try every dumb and costly idea we can think of. Who knows what success we might strike". That doesn't seem like very smart thinking for a country that depends on begging and borrowing (i.e. has little money) and which still cannot even properly feed itself (i.e. other, more important, priorities).
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We need a lot of policy experimentation. Who knew what M-pesa would eventually turned out if Prof at CBK then didn't give them a chance?
"Something over there exceeded our expectations. So let's try every dumb and costly idea we can think of. Who knows what success we might strike". That doesn't seem like very smart thinking for a country that depends on begging and borrowing (i.e. has little money) and which still cannot even properly feed itself (i.e. other, more important, priorities).
There was a mega-project meant to address food security for posterity - 1M acres under irrigation, GMOs, Israeli experts, etc. It's called Galana-Kulalu - it was plastered all over the billboards in 2012-13. I could be wrong but it's nothing to write home about. That and 6000 supposedly completed dams - with a half dozen extra megadams under construction - it's amazing folks and animals are still starving to death.
It's what Pundit won't admit : the best ideas in the world won't work with Uhuru and Ruto's level of incompetence and greed.
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if wishes were horses
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aULuCmntej4/USE8WEwsiKI/AAAAAAAARMg/CiaEFGVOJ8k/s1600/uhuruto1.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcThk2TQDM9WRdXpZ_lskalUaVg1kvrZ3QJD47_XdPWwknV4-IZ-)
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There was a mega-project meant to address food security for posterity - 1M acres under irrigation, GMOs, Israeli experts, etc. It's called Galana-Kulalu - it was plastered all over the billboards in 2012-13. I could be wrong but it's nothing to write home about.
There was a misunderstanding in that one: the government's "Kenyans will eat from this project" was taken by some to mean eating the project money. So, the usual story of billions "spent", but nothing to show at the end.
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Galana-Kulalu is not a failure. It a victim of short termism propaganda. The Isrealis did 10,000 acres model farm. Kenya gov learnt a lot of lesson including that river Galana could never provide enough water for 1m acres - hence the huge dam being built upstream now.
We need to keep trying out new ideas.....a country is like a company...we need a fair share of R &D....most of R & D projects fails....but the few that succeeds pretty much makes up for all the losses.
If we don't engage in policy experimentation or R & D --- we are not going to leapfrog -- we are going to take 500yrs to get to where western world is.
There was a mega-project meant to address food security for posterity - 1M acres under irrigation, GMOs, Israeli experts, etc. It's called Galana-Kulalu - it was plastered all over the billboards in 2012-13. I could be wrong but it's nothing to write home about. That and 6000 supposedly completed dams - with a half dozen extra megadams under construction - it's amazing folks and animals are still starving to death.
It's what Pundit won't admit : the best ideas in the world won't work with Uhuru and Ruto's level of incompetence and greed.
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Of course - formalizing the economy is part of gov objective and achievement. The informal sector maybe big - but it useless if we don't know how big, if we cannot tax it and if we cannot regulate. If Jubilee manages to formalize the economy - that would be awesome - starting from the big ones - retail & wholesaling (dukas) and transport (matatus & trucks) --- take the taxis -the ubers are now easy to track,measure and tax.
On GDP growth. Last year 6.3% gdp growth was driven by agriculture, manufacturing and transport https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Kenya-s-GDP-growth-rebounds-to-6-3pc-in-2018/3946234-5087360-1wy5djz/index.html . Transport grew by 8.8% a 5 yr high. But there's a caveat, from the horses mouth https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001322719/how-kenya-hit-6-3pc-growth-in-economy "Rotich said the transport sector was second after agriculture. Injecting Sh711 billion into the Kenyan economy, with part of the push coming in from the Standard Gauge Railway.
“One of the key sub-sectors that contributed to this growth is rail freight traffic, that more than tripled to 3,544 thousand tonnes in 2018, mainly due to the introduction of freight transportation services on the SGR,” he said.
More cargo
Pushing more cargo to the SGR enabled the State to capture the contribution of the transport sector, which has previously been majorly informal."
So technically there was no actual 8.8% growth on the sector its only that now knbs is able to capture that data. If all matatu business was all of sudden cashless using mobile money the sector would probably grow by at least 25%. But in reality it would have been the usual 3% average driven by population growth and overall health of the economy. Its the same take that we end up with stats showing jubilee has doubled kenya economy while the truth is we are now being able to capture more data getting a full reflection of the size of kenya economy.
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Ideally once you formalize 99% cash-free economy - you can go with flat 20% VAT on all items except maybe unga - and scrap PAYE. It's a shame how the tiny working class is double taxed at about 50%. Flat VAT and corporate would be magical - and at $100B you get 25B or thereabouts. Tax evasion by informal and corrupt companies esp wahindi is a major form of loss.
Of course - formalizing the economy is part of gov objective and achievement. The informal sector maybe big - but it useless if we don't know how big, if we cannot tax it and if we cannot regulate. If Jubilee manages to formalize the economy - that would be awesome - starting from the big ones - retail & wholesaling (dukas) and transport (matatus & trucks) --- take the taxis -the ubers are now easy to track,measure and tax.
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Of course - formalizing the economy is part of gov objective and achievement. The informal sector maybe big - but it useless if we don't know how big, if we cannot tax it and if we cannot regulate. If Jubilee manages to formalize the economy - that would be awesome - starting from the big ones - retail & wholesaling (dukas) and transport (matatus & trucks) --- take the taxis -the ubers are now easy to track,measure and tax.
No one would be against formalizing informal sector or measuring the true size of kenya economy. However capturing economy data more accurately doesn't mean the economy has grown exponentially. Its one of the reasons why ordinary kenya is dismayed with heady gdp growth numbers that aren't reflective in "real economy". Kenya economy isn't necessarily formalizing but consolidating in few sectors. taxi, uber and little, matatu various saccos etc. The finance sector, due to agency banking and mobile money is shedding workforce.
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Ideally once you formalize 99% cash-free economy - you can go with flat 20% VAT on all items except maybe unga - and scrap PAYE. It's a shame how the tiny working class is double taxed at about 50%. Flat VAT and corporate would be magical - and at $100B you get 25B or thereabouts. Tax evasion by informal and corrupt companies esp wahindi is a major form of loss.
Of course - formalizing the economy is part of gov objective and achievement. The informal sector maybe big - but it useless if we don't know how big, if we cannot tax it and if we cannot regulate. If Jubilee manages to formalize the economy - that would be awesome - starting from the big ones - retail & wholesaling (dukas) and transport (matatus & trucks) --- take the taxis -the ubers are now easy to track,measure and tax.
What would be your corporate tax rate? And would you also scrap income tax rate for individuals? How about other rates like landlord tax? I'd reduce the vat to a flat rate of 8% no deductions. An income flat rate of 15% for both individuals and corporates. In retail there's tot tax or turnover tax, that's what need to captured for individuals by looking at individuals mobile money and bank statements. This can be self assessment tax just like TOT is and landlord tax( which is 10% gross).
Simplified and lower taxation always lead to more compliance and higher tax collection.
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Galana-Kulalu is not a failure. It a victim of short termism propaganda. The Isrealis did 10,000 acres model farm. Kenya gov learnt a lot of lesson including that river Galana could never provide enough water for 1m acres - hence the huge dam being built upstream now.
They spent all that money to learn something they had already been told years ago by their costly consultants? That's GoK for you.
April 2014
The available water from River Galana at the Galana-Kulalu irrigation project can only irrigate 400,000 acres out of the targeted one million acres.
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As a result, Agriculture secretary Felix Koskei said the consultant has recommended that two dams be built upstream in order to tap runoff water to supplement the available resource.
The minister said one of the dams will have a capacity of 495,000 cubic metres while the other one will hold a billion cubic metres of water.
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Ministry-lines-up-two-dams-for-Galana-irrigation-project/3946234-2274568-417u84/index.html
The "huge dam being built upstream now"? Would that be the one whose construction "started" in 2015 but of which there is still precisely zero to be seen?
August 2015
Construction of the 20km dam that can hold two billion cubic litres of water along River Sabaki in Malindi will start soon.
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Officials said once complete, it will provide water to irrigate more than a million acres in the Galana Kulalu Food Security Project (GKFSP) in Kilifi and Tana River counties.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000173478/dam-for-galana-project-to-be-built
And so on; plenty of stories out the on this one. So, five years ago, it was "we need a really huge dam for this thing". After spending a lot of money, it's again "We have learned that we need a really huge dam for this thing"?
As with many other Kenyan Amazing Projects, after years of "about to begin construction!", "will be delivering results real soon!", there is almost nothing to be seen from Galana.
Let's see what we have so far:
The government produced a paltry 22,000 bags of maize currently worth Sh35.2 million from Galana-Kulalu irrigation scheme despite spending Sh7.3 billion in the Israeli-backed food security project, Parliament heard on Wednesday.
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As at March this year, only 5,000 acres, out of the targeted one million acres, had been put under crop.
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/Multi-billion-Galana-churns-out-Sh35m-maize-in-a-year/3946234-4756804-wry5yvz/index.html
That's about 4 bags per acre. Looks like Kenyans will be begging for food for quite some time.
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Model farm - had lot more objective than just water - suitable crops, and other key data were gathered. There is a lot of infrastructure work that is required. I hope Kenya gov doesn't throw the baby with the bath water. You cannot spend 70M dollars for such a project. We need to invest billion of dollars to make the 1 M acre irrigation a reality.
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The economy definitely grew - more formalized economy is growing economy - yes the KNBS are going to become more accurate with more data - but if people don't feel the economy - then they must have numbed their feelings. The growth is broad based and from nearly all sectors.
No one would be against formalizing informal sector or measuring the true size of kenya economy. However capturing economy data more accurately doesn't mean the economy has grown exponentially. Its one of the reasons why ordinary kenya is dismayed with heady gdp growth numbers that aren't reflective in "real economy". Kenya economy isn't necessarily formalizing but consolidating in few sectors. taxi, uber and little, matatu various saccos etc. The finance sector, due to agency banking and mobile money is shedding workforce.
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Model farm - had lot more objective than just water - suitable crops, and other key data were gathered. There is a lot of infrastructure work that is required. I hope Kenya gov doesn't throw the baby with the bath water.
Model farm - had lot more objective than just water - suitable crops, and other key data were gathered. There is a lot of infrastructure work that is required. I hope Kenya gov doesn't throw the baby with the bath water.
Of course. Key data like this one, right? :D
Kenya gov learnt a lot of lesson including that river Galana could never provide enough water for 1m acres - hence the huge dam being built upstream now.
The Galana thing was all about eating---the money not the maize. The noises and exchanges and accusations flying around right now probably have more to do with whether the loot was "fairly" shared. Other than that, the whole thing is pretty much dead.
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Of course.The gov got the best people in this business - Isrealis - complete with Isreali funded loan - and we learnt a lot of valuable lessons.Nobody said it was going to be easy - . What is lacking here is the political will to really spend on making this a reality. Hopefully after dams are completed - we can go back - and get this done.
(https://nib.or.ke/images/2018/06/05/screen-shot-2018-06-05-at-11.22.47.png)
Model farm - had lot more objective than just water - suitable crops, and other key data were gathered. There is a lot of infrastructure work that is required. I hope Kenya gov doesn't throw the baby with the bath water.
Model farm - had lot more objective than just water - suitable crops, and other key data were gathered. There is a lot of infrastructure work that is required. I hope Kenya gov doesn't throw the baby with the bath water.
Of course. Key data like this one, right? :D
Kenya gov learnt a lot of lesson including that river Galana could never provide enough water for 1m acres - hence the huge dam being built upstream now.
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Of course.The gov got the people in this business - Isrealis - complete with Isreali funded loan - and we learnt a lot of valuable lessons.
What valuable lessons? That a dam was required? See the above. That you can get 4 bags of maize per acre? My grandmother did better with just her jembe.
Getting an Israeli loan was an achievement? Considering that Kenyans will have to play for that loan, plus interest, what did they get for it? (And don't forget Kenyan's own money went in as well.)
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Model farm - is a model farm. It suppose to try so many things. This was a lab. They tried several seeds varieties, and different ways to plant or irrigate - all the technical mumbo jumbo. They managed to get as high as 30 bags per acre in 2016 season.
Isrealis failed because we wanted them to fail; all the fake news, propaganda and political nonsense - make what is great start to a big dream - a nightmare - few are willing to touch.
This is why Chinese are god sent. They don't listen to nonsense - they get down to business.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/big-read/2019-04-02-drought-exposes-collapse-of-galana-kulalu-project/
hat valuable lessons? That a dam was required? See the above. That you can get 4 bags of maize per acre? My grandmother did better with just her jembe.
Getting an Israeli loan was an achievement? Considering that Kenyans will have to play for that loan, plus interest, what did they get for it? (And don't forget Kenyan's own money went in as well.)
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Isrealis failed because we wanted them to fail; all the fake news, propaganda and political nonsense - make what is great start to a big dream - a nightmare - few are willing to touch.
Interesting. What fake news, propaganda and political nonsense? If one excludes the "eating" aspect, then the whole thing was a poorly thought-out joke from Day One!
This was Jubilee's great Feed-The-People project, with your man Ruto endlessly running his mouth about it. Now, about 6 years have passed, money has been borrowed, money has come from Kenyans, ... , but there is no maize in sight, the Israelis have run away, and the prospects for the future look like some more of the usual "mzungu, come here quick and saidia! drought! people are dying!". (Phantom "valuable lessons" don't do much for an empty belly.) That's not the start of a nightmare; it's a continuation.
This one is over friend. Of Jubilee's initial Eating Plan, the only projects that still have some real "eating" potential are the likes of Lego-land Konza City. Focus on that one, as it is one of the very few left.
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With political will(Ruto) and Chinese - this project will be revived and will become a great success story.
Interesting. What fake news, propaganda and political nonsense? The whole thing was poorly thought-out joke from Day One!
This was Jubilee's great Feed-The-People project, with your man Ruto endlessly running his mouth about it. Now, about 6 years have passed, money has been borrowed, money has come from Kenyans, ... , but there is no maize in sight, the Israelis have run away, and the prospects for the future look like some more of the usual "mzungu, come here quick and saidia! drought! people are dying!". (Phantom "valuable lessons" don't do much for an empty belly.) That's not the start of a nightmare; it's a continuation.
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With political will(Ruto) and Chinese - this project will be revived and will become a great success story.
Interesting. What fake news, propaganda and political nonsense? The whole thing was poorly thought-out joke from Day One!
This was Jubilee's great Feed-The-People project, with your man Ruto endlessly running his mouth about it. Now, about 6 years have passed, money has been borrowed, money has come from Kenyans, ... , but there is no maize in sight, the Israelis have run away, and the prospects for the future look like some more of the usual "mzungu, come here quick and saidia! drought! people are dying!". (Phantom "valuable lessons" don't do much for an empty belly.) That's not the start of a nightmare; it's a continuation.
Galana would never succeed because it is equivalent to opening our borders to cheaper maize. Thousands of RVs would go broke overnight if there was cheaper Maize produced elsewhere in Kenya
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Jubilee collected a few hanging fruits they learned from Kibaki FPE. These free maternity, TIVET, FSE, etc. The borrow & build binge is a failed attempt to replicate Kibadinga without any foresight, creativity or analysis. Talk of incompetence - a project like Galana so basic and straight - dams wapi - yet the pigs already pocketed the kickbacks. Of the significant programs only the loss-mining SGR is visible. LAPSETT, Turkana oil - nothing.
We can be generous and award the inept duo a strong D+
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Rv and Western farmers will transition out of maize and sugar cane.Ruto already told north rift to move to horticulture and dairy.Galana will produce all those cheap cereals.
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Implementation matters. All these ideas have been sitting on books for years. Nobody really has patent for these well known programs.What Jubilee did manage to achieve in their first term - was to get the job done. Look at road annuity program - Raila talked big about it 2004-2005 before he was fired - and they laid there - until Ruto took over it.
Jubilee collected a few hanging fruits they learned from Kibaki FPE. These free maternity, TIVET, FSE, etc. The borrow & build binge is a failed attempt to replicate Kibadinga without any foresight, creativity or analysis. Talk of incompetence - a project like Galana so basic and straight - dams wapi - yet the pigs already pocketed the kickbacks. Of the significant programs only the loss-mining SGR is visible. LAPSETT, Turkana oil - nothing.
We can be generous and award the inept duo a strong D+
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Laptop for kids not dead
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-05-06-second-phase-of-laptop-project-to-be-rolled-out-in-august/
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Yes, it is alive and kicking. :D :D :D :D
Now let us just wait for 15 years and our Kenyan born Bill Gates will arise. :o
Laptop for kids not dead
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-05-06-second-phase-of-laptop-project-to-be-rolled-out-in-august/
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Want to bet on that.
Yes, it is alive and kicking. :D :D :D :D
Now let us just wait for 15 years and our Kenyan born Bill Gates will arise. :o
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If it were that easy just supply kids with laptops and 20 years later an IT industry is created, many other countries with much more resources than Kenya would have done the same ages ago. I do not need to bet on that as I know I am right.
Btw, India has built a relative strong IT industry without distributing computers to schools. There is more to it than just having the gadgets.
Want to bet on that.
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Laptop for kids not dead
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-05-06-second-phase-of-laptop-project-to-be-rolled-out-in-august/
You need to read the stuff at your link ... past the headlines. Jubilee's "great idea" and claim was one laptop (later turned into a tablet) per kid. They were advised to go with labs instead, but they insisted on the boneheaded approach. That is now dead, and they are back to the lab idea. Here is what one finds at your link:
Under the second phase for the upper primary, (grades 4-6), which is set to run for five years, 24,000 schools will be targeted across the country, with each receiving 50 tablets and an extra one for the headteacher. The distribution will be staggered.
How does Jubilee see (that part of) an entire school---all students in those grades and all their teachers---working with just 50 tablets? Perhaps sharing them in a lab?
As for the notion of some Gates emerging from all this, let us start with what they are actually doing. Here is what the relevant ministry says:
Is DigiSchool introducing ICT as a learning subject in primary schools?
No, in this programme ICT will be used as a teaching and learning tool.
http://icta.go.ke/digischool/faqs/
Just another teaching and learning tool. That is, forget about things like learning how to build hardware, learning how to program, etc.
The ICTA (Digischool) organization that is spearheading this Great Technological Leap into the future is itself quite amusing: critical links on their webpages are broken; where links work the information seems hopelessly out of date; etc.
And there's the Kenyan Institute of Curriculum Development, which is supposedly responsible for the "content" on these tablets. Good luck finding out what exactly they do in that regard.
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You aim for the sun to reach the moon. The moon is pretty ambitious target. Schools got the tablets - acting like a lab - the tablets are stored in schools - and used by all classes. Each school also got a laptop for the teachers - and audio-visual devices.
What exactly is your complain now.
Jubilee managed to equip our dilapidated schools with the infrastructure, the training and the tablets.
Laptop for kids not dead
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-05-06-second-phase-of-laptop-project-to-be-rolled-out-in-august/
You need to read the stuff at your link ... past the headlines. Jubilee's "great idea" and claim was one laptop (later turned into a tablet) per kid. They were advised to go with labs instead, but they insisted on the boneheaded approach. That is now dead, and they are back to the lab idea. Here is what one finds at your link:
Under the second phase for the upper primary, (grades 4-6), which is set to run for five years, 24,000 schools will be targeted across the country, with each receiving 50 tablets and an extra one for the headteacher. The distribution will be staggered.
How does Jubilee see (that part of) an entire school---all students in those grades and all their teachers---working with just 50 tablets? Perhaps sharing them in a lab?
As for the notion of some Gates emerging from all this, let us start with what they are actually doing. Here is what the relevant ministry says:
Is DigiSchool introducing ICT as a learning subject in primary schools?
No, in this programme ICT will be used as a teaching and learning tool.
http://icta.go.ke/digischool/faqs/
Just another teaching and learning tool. That is, forget about things like learning how to build hardware, learning how to program, etc.
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You aim for the sun to reach the moon. The moon is pretty ambitious target. Schools got the tablets - acting like a lab - the tablets are stored in schools - and used by all classes.
Used for what exactly? To read .pdf files and look at .jpg images? I don't see how that is going to lead to a technological revolution, produce a Kenyan Gates, etc.
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Under the second phase for the upper primary, (grades 4-6), which is set to run for five years, 24,000 schools will be targeted across the country, with each receiving 50 tablets and an extra one for the headteacher. The distribution will be staggered.
How does Jubilee see (that part of) an entire school---all students in those grades and all their teachers---working with just 50 tablets? Perhaps sharing them in a lab?
I don't think they are doing labs. It's the usual disorganization. Maybe they now expect the kids to huddle around the "laptops".
As for the notion of some Gates emerging from all this, let us start with what they are actually doing. Here is what the relevant ministry says:
Is DigiSchool introducing ICT as a learning subject in primary schools?
No, in this programme ICT will be used as a teaching and learning tool.
http://icta.go.ke/digischool/faqs/ (http://icta.go.ke/digischool/faqs/)
Just another teaching and learning tool. That is, forget about things like learning how to build hardware, learning how to program, etc.
That is the most sensible use. Teaching tools. Learn how the world works. It's always amazing when I look at some of the learning tools today's kids(USA) have. But it requires a clear purpose. An understanding that ultimately they facilitate and add to, not replace, classroom learning. That is not to say it's what the Kenyans are doing. But it's a good way to use them beyond just "having a gadget".
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That is the most sensible use. Teaching tools. Learn how the world works. It's always amazing when I look at some of the learning tools today's kids(USA) have. But it requires a clear purpose. An understanding that ultimately they facilitate and add to, not replace, classroom learning. That is not to say it's what the Kenyans are doing. But it's a good way to use them beyond just "having a gadget".
That is fine. The problem is when people---the peddlers, those at the receiving end, and the cheerleaders in the middle---start to have and promote wild dreams of how all this will lead to some sort of technological revolution.
Further, I think that in a place like Kenya, there would be more to be had from improving the quality of teachers (and teaching), the physical plants, nutrition, ... instead of relying on gimmicks.
(https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/saturday/zsrclledsxe2mxyh5c7a841e734da.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DKcR6ttYMioFZrC5SEr4HoCUO_xEHrUb9lxzy2MDxMAUEc0_PsGyc5OLOCZCwzoLiV6jDUE-rLr8N1lwFoQ5Yvz1EbQ4=s512)
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That is the most sensible use. Teaching tools. Learn how the world works. It's always amazing when I look at some of the learning tools today's kids(USA) have. But it requires a clear purpose. An understanding that ultimately they facilitate and add to, not replace, classroom learning. That is not to say it's what the Kenyans are doing. But it's a good way to use them beyond just "having a gadget".
That is fine. The problem is when people---the peddlers, those at the receiving end, and the cheerleaders in the middle---start to have and promote wild dreams of how all this will lead to sort of technological revolution.
Further, I think that in a place like Kenya, there would be more to be had from improving the quality of teachers (and teaching), the physical plants, etc. instead of relying on gimmicks.
I think the importance of good teachers and direction, in today's world, is even greater. Especially in a situation where one could afford to just give every child a laptop and unlimited data. I can't think of a worse way to learn than being exposed to the WWW and the information overload.
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(https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/saturday/zsrclledsxe2mxyh5c7a841e734da.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DKcR6ttYMioFZrC5SEr4HoCUO_xEHrUb9lxzy2MDxMAUEc0_PsGyc5OLOCZCwzoLiV6jDUE-rLr8N1lwFoQ5Yvz1EbQ4=s512)
Many basics missing in those pictures that laptops CANNOT mitigate. I'd put a clinical officer to check out the kids in every school, before the laptops if those were the choices I had.
Papua New Guinea has some interesting lessons from their "laptop" program.
In 2011, a representative from the PNG government made a 1-hour stop on a chartered small plane in Oksapmin to celebrate the distribution of XOs to the schools. During his visit, he made a recommendation that the laptops be owned by children, to be taken home so that they would always be available to them. This was a core tenant of the global OLPC program – the laptop should be owned outright by the students.
This created a problem in the Oksapmin world, where sharing is traditionally a central value to the community, so if children, least powerful members of the community “owned” the laptop, it might well become the property of extended families and sold for cash. The three school headmasters reacted in different ways to this threat.
School Ownership: Tomianap’s headmaster disregarded the representative’s advice and retained the laptops at the school, though he did allow children to write their names on a computer and enter their name in the Sugar software, indicating that the laptop belonged to them.
Student Ownership: The headmasters of Mitiganap and Tekin allowed students to take a laptop home, and over time, fewer and fewer computers returned with students. Some computers were used as currency in trade with outsiders. Adults and older peers appropriated others. Solar panels also disappeared into the community. As a result Tekin and Mitiganap had insufficient hardware to support major use of laptops in classrooms.
https://www.ictworks.org/educational-laptops-papua-new-guinea/#.XNAcxXVKj8s
(https://i0.wp.com/www.ictworks.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/olpc-png.png?w=640&ssl=1)
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I think the importance of good teachers and direction, in today's world, is even greater. Especially in a situation where one could afford to just give every child a laptop and unlimited data.
Absolutely. For my kids' education (in this "information age") I devoted a great deal of time and effort, got involved in all sorts of things, looked into all sorts of this-and-that when it comes to learning, ... and I have grave doubts about any mindless belief in the power of technology. I'd first focus on the quality of teachers, nutrition (as in school meals, if necessary), pleasant or at least comfortable physical surroundings (certainly not rocks under a tree), exercises areas, etc.
I can't think of a worse way to learn than being exposed to the WWW and the information overload.
Unfortunately, there seems to be an increasing confusion between "access to more information" and real learning or even just the "acquisition of knowledge". And the confusion seems to be greatest among those least equipped to make the judgment.
Moreover, in a place like Kenya, even the information these kids have access to on their tablets is quite limited when compared to, say, a kid who has 24/7 high-speed access to the internet, along with access the digital contents of major libraries and all sorts of stuff like that. Not just limited, but also of questionable worth. Just what the Kenyan kids have on their tablets these days is not easy to determine, but when they started it looked like just a bunch of .pdf, .ppt, and that sort of files ... a mindless transfer from the stanrdard textbooks Just what fundamental difference that is supposed to make, beyond chalk wielded by a good teacher, is unclear.
I'm all for Kenyan kids getting into "high tech" early on in school. Technology can be helpful in learning, and there is something to be said having ready access to the treasure-trove of information that is the WWW. But the current laptops/tablets thing is little more than a bad (and, for Kenya, expensive) joke. An election gimmick taken too far. As for fuzzy predictions of technological wunderkinder populating Legoland Konza City (in its current form/conception, another bad joke) in 20 years, Kenyan tech colossi (with old Jubilee tablets under their arms) bestriding the earth, ... shall we focus on the "fuzzy"?
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Watch this video. Jubilee really tried. 1M devices is no joke - distributed all over the country. In our company - we have been trying to roll out 1,000 tablets to our field guys - and it's such a hassle & hardwork.
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Not a guarantee but is a fair bet for the investment. We have star athletes cause no innovation or adroit strategy is needed to run... on agric where some brain is needed subsector after sector has poofed with subsudies all over. Kenyans have been taking IT classes in private schools, homes or college - no sign of genius past Shem Ochuodho or Ndemo. Safaricom can barely make a chatbot :D
So I say it's a drop in the ocean chance worth taking.
Want to bet on that.
Yes, it is alive and kicking. :D :D :D :D
Now let us just wait for 15 years and our Kenyan born Bill Gates will arise. :o
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Right. I know Ruto has plucked a few fruits by copying Kibaki. It's why they score a mere D+.. Uhuru kind of incompetence would be plain F.
Implementation matters. All these ideas have been sitting on books for years. Nobody really has patent for these well known programs.What Jubilee did manage to achieve in their first term - was to get the job done. Look at road annuity program - Raila talked big about it 2004-2005 before he was fired - and they laid there - until Ruto took over it.
Jubilee collected a few hanging fruits they learned from Kibaki FPE. These free maternity, TIVET, FSE, etc. The borrow & build binge is a failed attempt to replicate Kibadinga without any foresight, creativity or analysis. Talk of incompetence - a project like Galana so basic and straight - dams wapi - yet the pigs already pocketed the kickbacks. Of the significant programs only the loss-mining SGR is visible. LAPSETT, Turkana oil - nothing.
We can be generous and award the inept duo a strong D+
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Watch this video. Jubilee really tried. 1M devices is no joke - distributed all over the country. In our company - we have been trying to roll out 1,000 tablets to our field guys - and it's such a hassle & hardwork.
I kind of like the Kapsabet Primary approach. It appears they have the gadgets in a specific place, call it a lab. It's an approach that can cut down the costs, make it sustainable while enhancing education. The kids then access them with guidance from the teacher to reinforce things they have learned, in this case filtration. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I would add an interactive session with the concept is worth a thousand pictures. That is a good argument to have this project but the purpose needs to be spelled out as such.
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I kind of like the Kapsabet Primary approach. It appears they have the gadgets in a specific place, call it a lab. It's an approach that can cut down the costs, make it sustainable while enhancing education. The kids then access them with guidance from the teacher to reinforce things they have learned, in this case filtration. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I would add an interactive session with the concept is worth a thousand pictures. That is a good argument to have this project but the purpose needs to be spelled out as such.
This has been happening for years in private schools and now the public ones with the Jubilee kindles. Of course I don't see any "revolution" from this - more like a progressive closing of the digital divide. The likes of Andela, Safaricom Academy, etc have been at it for a decade and there is nothing particularly inspiring about it. If you had talent in Kenya - on the scale of say India - big techs would have R&D labs and centers all over as they do in Israel or Russia, etc. Talent is abit more than education or training - it is cultural - the DNA that makes us is passed first from the evolutionary genes, early nurture, education, environment - samples out there of successful Kenyan models. Not Zuckerberg or Bill Gates.
About culture - Kenya's is obviously off by a mile. You find bright A kids - after Math or Eng or IT bachelors degree - postgrad they all go MBA or some nonsense like that. 10% STEM udnergrads becomes 0.1% STEM postgrad. Because employers, the government, the media, the people - the CULTURE does not encourage STEM advancement. We are yet to turn the corner from worshipping thieves to uplifting visionaries and intellectuals. But I don't mean to digress.
This elementary computer class is an OK thing - not revolutionary, innovative, experimental - nor any kind of superlative. Just organic, progressive digitization driven by necessity. Never mind the poor execution.
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I kind of like the Kapsabet Primary approach. It appears they have the gadgets in a specific place, call it a lab. It's an approach that can cut down the costs, make it sustainable while enhancing education. The kids then access them with guidance from the teacher to reinforce things they have learned, in this case filtration. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I would add an interactive session with the concept is worth a thousand pictures. That is a good argument to have this project but the purpose needs to be spelled out as such.
This has been happening for years in private schools and now the public ones with the Jubilee kindles. Of course I don't see any "revolution" from this - more like a progressive closing of the digital divide.
Maybe not even a closing of the digital divide but rather educational divide. Imagine kids moving from writing in the dust and imagining stuff to interacting directly with a model demonstrating the relationship between pressure and volume. Even if the digital divide remains, that is some serious progress.
The likes of Andela, Safaricom Academy, etc have been at it for a decade and there is nothing particularly inspiring about it. If you had talent in Kenya - on the scale of say India - big techs would have R&D labs and centers all over as they do in Israel or Russia, etc. Talent is abit more than education or training - it is cultural - the DNA that makes us is passed first from the evolutionary genes, early nurture, education, environment - samples out there of successful Kenyan models. Not Zuckerberg or Bill Gates.
About culture - Kenya's is obviously off by a mile. You find bright A kids - after Math or Eng or IT bachelors degree - postgrad they all go MBA or some nonsense like that. 10% STEM udnergrads becomes 0.1% STEM postgrad. Because employers, the government, the media, the people - the CULTURE does not encourage STEM advancement. We are yet to turn the corner from worshipping thieves to uplifting visionaries and intellectuals. But I don't mean to digress.
That's a tough one. I won't lie I know the answer. Microsoft, Google have the Silicon valley ecosystem. That is a super-massive system that extends beyond Silicon Valley into the general industrial economy of the US. There might be a chance if Kagame were handed iron fist control of the entire East African region. Gunia man Farouk Kibet and gang are not taking us there.
In general Application software development seems like the most readily accessible low hanging fruit that won't break the bank.
This elementary computer class is an OK thing - not revolutionary, innovative, experimental - nor any kind of superlative. Just organic, progressive digitization driven by necessity. Never mind the poor execution.
It's not revolutionary. But it's a good direction if well managed(I am not holding my breath). I'd like to see if there is a coherent process in place to shed some light on lessons learned. To me, just watching that video, it seems obvious the one "laptop" per child approach should be cast out in favor of the lab approach.
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The shifting of goals is hilarous. Robina you're a clown. When the economy grows - it cooked or copied from Kibaki. When Jubilee hack digital learning in schools including very basic one - it not revolutionary. Wait for 20yrs.If kenya kids were doing great with little resources like really torn books - imagine what tech can do - tech here is leveling the ground - and these kids will be as competitive as any in the world.
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Perhaps it's my English... too Ivy League for you :) - let me rephrase: imagine a smart man like yourself worshiping and singing praises for a brazen thug like William Ruto. What is to be expected of the regular village drunkard? Digital school is OK - just not revolutionary - a few more ingredients needed - culture in particular. Out here we worship Gates, Zuckerberg, Musk - not thieves, drug dealers and murderers - see the difference? US kids "learn" it's great to be an engineer or scientist or entrepreneur. What are the kids learning from Ruto in Kenya?
Digital class is ok... Phew! not all bad. Re-read until you understand.
The shifting of goals is hilarous. Robina you're a clown. When the economy grows - it cooked or copied from Kibaki. When Jubilee hack digital learning in schools including very basic one - it not revolutionary. Wait for 20yrs.If kenya kids were doing great with little resources like really torn books - imagine what tech can do - tech here is leveling the ground - and these kids will be as competitive as any in the world.
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Yeah English not my strongest point but sound arguments is alien to you. Who is comparing US (a developed country) with Kenya a third world country. Kenya already has a very good education (quality wise it ranks with mid-tier countries - self-ranked under 30s) - and stuff like digischool have the 'leapfrogging' ability to get Kenya direct into 'US' level in decade like M-pesa has done to banking and payment systems.
Perhaps it's my English... too Ivy League for you :) - let me rephrase: imagine a smart man like yourself worshiping and singing praises for a brazen thug like William Ruto. What is to be expected of the regular village drunkard? Digital school is OK - just not revolutionary - a few more ingredients needed - culture in particular. Out here we worship Gates, Zuckerberg, Musk - not thieves, drug dealers and murderers - see the difference? US kids "learn" it's great to be an engineer or scientist or entrepreneur. What are the kids learning from Ruto in Kenya?
Digital class is ok... Phew! not all bad. Re-read until you understand.
The shifting of goals is hilarous. Robina you're a clown. When the economy grows - it cooked or copied from Kibaki. When Jubilee hack digital learning in schools including very basic one - it not revolutionary. Wait for 20yrs.If kenya kids were doing great with little resources like really torn books - imagine what tech can do - tech here is leveling the ground - and these kids will be as competitive as any in the world.
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I don't mean to mock your UoN education.. it merely ranks 1000 globally. :)
But seriously "digischool" has been around for decades. If all the Kenyans who have attended the various IT or Computer Science classes, bootcamps or full diploma and degree courses were capable we would have seen our Gates or Zuckerberg by now. I gave you the example of other areas that are relatively even field West vs Third World - athletics and agric. It takes nothing to run but raw physical ability - so the Rudishas have been global stars forever - inspite of all the mismanagement, NOCK infighting, jokers like Wario and Echesa. Yet in agric where research & tech has progressed since mzungu - we swiftly sank to the bottom - the stone-age sugar, maize and coffee farmers who think Ruto or Raila has stolen their money.
Perhaps there is something unique about IT or software engineering - as bitmask thinks. But I don't see it. Of the hundreds of thousands already trained - no real super stars or inventions of note. Except MJ mzungu's M-Pesa. :) So I say there is a drop-in-the-ocean chance that a Gates or Google or such "revolution" results - 20 or 50 years from now. RV Pundit as a geek yourself yet you merely moonlight as small-time online hack. What great enterprise have you seen that points to say India-scale talent?
Nope, Digischool is ok - but merely progressive - DEFAULT organic step. Any regular fool could do it. Not new or revolutionary.
Yeah English not my strongest point but sound arguments is alien to you. Who is comparing US (a developed country) with Kenya a third world country. Kenya already has a very good education (quality wise it ranks with mid-tier countries - self-ranked under 30s) - and stuff like digischool have the 'leapfrogging' ability to get Kenya direct into 'US' level in decade like M-pesa has done to banking and payment systems.
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Exactly. Not sure how Pundit arrives at these pie-in-the-sky prophecies. 20 years from now so we can't ask for proof. What stop Kenyan farmers from shining - where the field was brutally leveled by mkoloni - yet we gradually sank to mkia? Is IT simpler than farming?
If it were that easy just supply kids with laptops and 20 years later an IT industry is created, many other countries with much more resources than Kenya would have done the same ages ago. I do not need to bet on that as I know I am right.
Btw, India has built a relative strong IT industry without distributing computers to schools. There is more to it than just having the gadgets.
Want to bet on that.
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Estonia already proved that a poor country if it embrace tech early in school - can leverage it. I don't know what you're arguing about but producing Bill Gates is hardly a yardstick - for measuring education outcomes.
I don't mean to mock your UoN education.. it merely ranks 1000 globally. :)
But seriously "digischool" has been around for decades. If all the Kenyans who have attended the various IT or Computer Science classes, bootcamps or full diploma and degree courses were capable we would have seen our Gates or Zuckerberg by now. I gave you the example of other areas that are relatively even field West vs Third World - athletics and agric. It takes nothing to run but raw physical ability - so the Rudishas have been global stars forever - inspite of all the mismanagement, NOCK infighting, jokers like Wario and Echesa. Yet in agric where research & tech has progressed since mzungu - we swiftly sank to the bottom - the stone-age sugar, maize and coffee farmers who think Ruto or Raila has stolen their money.
Perhaps there is something unique about IT or software engineering - as bitmask thinks. But I don't see it. Of the hundreds of thousands already trained - no real super stars or inventions of note. Except MJ mzungu's M-Pesa. :) So I say there is a drop-in-the-ocean chance that a Gates or Google or such "revolution" results - 20 or 50 years from now. RV Pundit as a geek yourself yet you merely moonlight as small-time online hack. What great enterprise have you seen that points to say India-scale talent?
Nope, Digischool is ok - but merely progressive - DEFAULT organic step. Any regular fool could do it. Not new or revolutionary.
Yeah English not my strongest point but sound arguments is alien to you. Who is comparing US (a developed country) with Kenya a third world country. Kenya already has a very good education (quality wise it ranks with mid-tier countries - self-ranked under 30s) - and stuff like digischool have the 'leapfrogging' ability to get Kenya direct into 'US' level in decade like M-pesa has done to banking and payment systems.
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There are countless billionaire techpreneurs in the West. No, they didn't do it by availing gadgets. We are debating about the Digischool program - is it a potential game-changer? Nope, the odds are 1-v-1M it's another sequent step infact lower in impact than say FPE. History, statistics, etc - disagree. The solo Estonia of course proves nothing - statistically - with different factors - cultural, geographical, political, etc.
But I agree here Ruto has done well - for a hare-brained Regular Joe that he is.
Estonia already proved that a poor country if it embrace tech early in school - can leverage it. I don't know what you're arguing about but producing Bill Gates is hardly a yardstick - for measuring education outcomes.
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Estonia GDP per capita $22,989 (nominal, 2018)
Kenya GDP per capita $1,991 (2019 est.)
If Estonis is poor, what is Kenya? :o
Estonia already proved that a poor country if it embrace tech early in school - can leverage it. I don't know what you're arguing about but producing Bill Gates is hardly a yardstick - for measuring education outcomes.
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Estonia was poor in 90s when they embarkedon digital revolution..Kenya has proven itself with Mpesa and these kids will leapfrog us.
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You can only compare jubilee with previous regimes and her conterparts in the region .That you can pull silicon valley card shows your desperation and jubilee great accomplishment.Kenya already made her name in Mpesa and digischool is the perfect investment to position Kenya as the tech leader.These are revolutionary ideas that can help skips years of investment like we have done in banking and telcoms
There are countless billionaire techpreneurs in the West. No, they didn't do it by availing gadgets. We are debating about the Digischool program - is it a potential game-changer? Nope, the odds are 1-v-1M it's another sequent step infact lower in impact than say FPE. History, statistics, etc - disagree. The solo Estonia of course proves nothing - statistically - with different factors - cultural, geographical, political, etc.
But I agree here Ruto has done well - for a hare-brained Regular Joe that he is.
Estonia already proved that a poor country if it embrace tech early in school - can leverage it. I don't know what you're arguing about but producing Bill Gates is hardly a yardstick - for measuring education outcomes.
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RV Pundit amen to that. Holding our breaths here - for 20 years - waiting for the revolution.
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Pundit seeing nobody shares your visions here at nipate - save maybe for GeeMail - just like we asked for the SGR, get us just one credible person who believes Digischool is revolutionary. Just one. You can't because there is none.
You can only compare jubilee with previous regimes and her conterparts in the region .That you can pull silicon valley card shows your desperation and jubilee great accomplishment.Kenya already made her name in Mpesa and digischool is the perfect investment to position Kenya as the tech leader.These are revolutionary ideas that can help skips years of investment like we have done in banking and telcoms
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Pundit, Estonia got its independence from USSR in 1991. You cannot even compare the level of education and infrastructure of Estonia in 1991 to the Kenya of today. Also it is foolsome to believe that only the digital revolution improved the living standards in Estonia.
I hope Kenya does not keep on mentioning Mpesa 20 years from now as the biggest digital revolution Kenya gave to the world. The digital world moves in a fast pace and the technology of today can be out even faster than we know it.
Estonia was poor in 90s when they embarkedon digital revolution..Kenya has proven itself with Mpesa and these kids will leapfrog us.
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Nicholas Negroponte of one Child one laptop did that 14yrs ago in 2005. Why would you want me to justify basic self-evident stuff. If you want to read more Seymour Papert did all the research you need done in 1980s.
Pundit seeing nobody shares your visions here at nipate - save maybe for GeeMail - just like we asked for the SGR, get us just one credible person who believes Digischool is revolutionary. Just one. You can't because there is none.
You can only compare jubilee with previous regimes and her conterparts in the region .That you can pull silicon valley card shows your desperation and jubilee great accomplishment.Kenya already made her name in Mpesa and digischool is the perfect investment to position Kenya as the tech leader.These are revolutionary ideas that can help skips years of investment like we have done in banking and telcoms
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Estonia were poor to afford to go digital...but they did. They were not rich like their neighbour Finland. Kenya economy is going digital and we need to prepare our kids for a digital world. The world in 20yrs will be completely different. The brick-mortar business models will be out. Kenyan kids will not be inventing facebook or twitter...they hopefully will be inventing appropriate solutions to deal with day to day problems in their communities.
Pundit, Estonia got its independence from USSR in 1991. You cannot even compare the level of education and infrastructure of Estonia in 1991 to the Kenya of today. Also it is foolsome to believe that only the digital revolution improved the living standards in Estonia.
I hope Kenya does not keep on mentioning Mpesa 20 years from now as the biggest digital revolution Kenya gave to the world. The digital world moves in a fast pace and the technology of today can be out even faster than we know it.
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M-PESA is MZUNGU-made, owned & run. MJ and Vodafone. Pundit fiddles with facts and statistics - how does one country's success prove something works? -vs all the failures. Besides all the day-&-night differences btwn Estonia and Kenya.
He started these apple & mango analogies with China, then Chile and Indonesia. Now he is onto Estonia.
Pundit, Estonia got its independence from USSR in 1991. You cannot even compare the level of education and infrastructure of Estonia in 1991 to the Kenya of today. Also it is foolsome to believe that only the digital revolution improved the living standards in Estonia.
I hope Kenya does not keep on mentioning Mpesa 20 years from now as the biggest digital revolution Kenya gave to the world. The digital world moves in a fast pace and the technology of today can be out even faster than we know it.
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Anyone who backs the actual Digischool program? The way SGR has been sliced & diced and found wanting. Not historical research. Ngumu sana. The transformational nature is not obvious - going by the debate here. Of course you can be snide and quote ancient philosophers.
Nicholas Negroponte of one Child one laptop did that 14yrs ago in 2005. Why would you want me to justify basic self-evident stuff. If you want to read more Seymour Papert did all the research you need done in 1980s.
Pundit seeing nobody shares your visions here at nipate - save maybe for GeeMail - just like we asked for the SGR, get us just one credible person who believes Digischool is revolutionary. Just one. You can't because there is none.
You can only compare jubilee with previous regimes and her conterparts in the region .That you can pull silicon valley card shows your desperation and jubilee great accomplishment.Kenya already made her name in Mpesa and digischool is the perfect investment to position Kenya as the tech leader.These are revolutionary ideas that can help skips years of investment like we have done in banking and telcoms
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That sounds as insane as saying your hero behind Telsa is a south african invention. M-pesa is more than simple USSD menu - it about the ecosystem, about kenyans including gov wonks embracing and about kenya innovating along it. The original M-pesa was micro-finance app - the m-pesa we have now is a whole m-commerce and payment system.
M-PESA is MZUNGU-made, owned & run. MJ and Vodafone. Pundit fiddles with facts and statistics - how does one country's success prove something works? -vs all the failures. Besides all the day-&-night differences btwn Estonia and Kenya.
He started these apple & mango analogies with China, then Chile and Indonesia. Now he is onto Estonia.
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I just gave you two people who backs it - MIT proffesors- who were advocating for this a two decade ago. How obtuse can you get? If by economists - you mean Dr Ndii - then you're lost. Gov of Kenya and China have economists too - including Rotich and Dr. Thugge - gov team with so many economists - who deal with public investment and have advocated for this - for years now.
Anyone who backs the actual Digischool program? The way SGR has been sliced & diced and found wanting. Not historical research. Ngumu sana. The transformational nature is not obvious - going by the debate here. Of course you can be snide and quote ancient philosophers.
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M-pesa is owned and MANAGED by mzungu. Any stupidness to localize Safcom management - by replacing Collymore with a Kikuyu or Kalenjin - utaona KQ nyingine. Hatujafika hapo - we have a one-off outlier Dr Mwangi - nothing consistent of MJ caliber. Plain reality.
If you doubt - the most innovative startups are mzungu- owned and run. These are the Safcoms or Googles in the horizon. One Acre Fund, M-kopa, Sun Culture, name it.
See this 2 startups named "Genius Companies" 2018 by Time Magazine. For being super innovative. Ona (medtech) and BRCK (internet hardware). Of course they are mzungu companies.
We need to fix our culture along with Digischool and infrastructure. In short, Ruto needs to stop teaching the youth it's ok to steal. With his omnipresence that looting message is so loud noone can hear a thing about digital. The cultural corner - who n what we worship, who are the role models - is a very big missing ingredient in the development broth.
We differed on OUTPUTS the other day - guess we are stuck there. Face the hard truth about the ineptitude of Kenya's finest mind being a literal BIG THIEF - how would any good come of that? His Digischool or SGR is one step forward, two backwards.
Ona, BRCK among innovative companies changing the world
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001298009/kenya-tech-firms-in-top-50-genius-list
That sounds as insane as saying your hero behind Telsa is a south african invention. M-pesa is more than simple USSD menu - it about the ecosystem, about kenyans including gov wonks embracing and about kenya innovating along it. The original M-pesa was micro-finance app - the m-pesa we have now is a whole m-commerce and payment system.
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I think it's the ostrich approach to think you can entrench corruption in successive generations and reap anything but evil, suffering and death. Kenya will leapfrog cause SGR and Digischool? Eating nutritious foods while the tumor explodes. Capisce?
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Mwafrika IQ, behavior and CULTURE - is still way below par. It's why you have no Gates or Jobs, not lack of laptops. Fix the culture and mindset first or at least in tandem with the other sectors. Of course you can't do that by praising or electing a Brazen, Ungroomed Moneybag like Ruto.
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There you go pulling the race card. The likes of cellulant valued at 10B (100M) were started and owned by Kenyans -last year they got 47M equity financing. Seven Seas? There are so many kenyan owned tech start ups. Obviously US(silicon valley) - not every mzungu - are far ahead in the game - which is why we are investing in the next generation. The current generation are hobbled - look at me - I started using a computer in my university computer science class.
M-pesa is owned and MANAGED by mzungu. Any stupidness to localize Safcom management - by replacing Collymore with a Kikuyu or Kalenjin - utaona KQ nyingine. Hatujafika hapo - we have a one-off outlier Dr Mwangi - nothing consistent of MJ caliber. Plain reality.
If you doubt - the most innovative startups are mzungu- owned and run. These are the Safcoms or Googles in the horizon. One Acre Fund, M-kopa, Sun Culture, name it.
See this 2 startups named "Genius Companies" 2018 by Time Magazine. For being super innovative. Ona (medtech) and BRCK (internet hardware). Of course they are mzungu companies.
We need to fix our culture along with Digischool and infrastructure. In short, Ruto needs to stop teaching the youth it's ok to steal. With his omnipresence that looting message is so loud noone can hear a thing about digital. The cultural corner - who n what we worship, who are the role models - is a very big missing ingredient in the development broth.
We differed on OUTPUTS the other day - guess we are stuck there. Face the hard truth about the ineptitude of Kenya's finest mind being a literal BIG THIEF - how would any good come of that? His Digischool or SGR is one step forward, two backwards.
Ona, BRCK among innovative companies changing the world
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001298009/kenya-tech-firms-in-top-50-genius-list
That sounds as insane as saying your hero behind Telsa is a south african invention. M-pesa is more than simple USSD menu - it about the ecosystem, about kenyans including gov wonks embracing and about kenya innovating along it. The original M-pesa was micro-finance app - the m-pesa we have now is a whole m-commerce and payment system.
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All that we are fixing - IQ is improving, behaviour and culture will change - don't make it look like everything is about Ruto. You'll find me praising Kibaki or Moi achievements. There is no doubt that Moi for all his ills - set us on a educational edge that we posses compared to countries at our level of development. Kibaki went further and re-funded social programs including free education. Jubilee has gone further to finance tablets. If there is a sector we are not doing badly it's education - we just need to deal with teacher absentism and ensure there are serious quality controls to ensure teachers are teaching - in public school - otherwise you cannot compare a kenyan graduate to TZ or Ug or Eth - Kenyans are so miles ahead.Kenya beat even South Africa in quality of education - only Mauritus is better than us.
This is our edge. We don't have any minerals. But we are 100B economy by end of this year. That is only possible because kenya gov has really invested in education and hopefully we can keep investing in them - we need to invest in contemporary equipments - like tablets - and stop talking books - when you have e-books - labs when you have e-labs - they don't cost much - and they achieve the same if not better results - e-voting - e-gov - e- whatever - m-pesa - this is where the world is heading - and kenya is one of the leader of that future.
We have to seize the moment.
Mwafrika IQ, behavior and CULTURE - is still way below par. It's why you have no Gates or Jobs, not lack of laptops. Fix the culture and mindset first or at least in tandem with the other sectors. Of course you can't do that by praising or electing a Brazen, Ungroomed Moneybag like Ruto.
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(https://www.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/5107990/highRes/2338312/-/maxw/600/-/kq14by/-/Computers.jpg)
https://www.nation.co.ke/counties/taita-taveta/ICT-transforms-learning-Taita-Taveta/1183326-5107732-10dqfmf/index.html