He wasn't young. Must have been a sudden heart attack
Shocking; must be heart attack.
He was as late as 9.30 last night discussing issues pertaining to peace, unity in Kenya with President Uhuru Kenyatta.
Karen Hospital has ruled out any possibilities of heart attack as the cause of CS Nkaissery's death.
A senior manager at the hospital told the Star on Saturday that doctors who received the late have every reason to believe it was not a heart attack.
The manager who sought anonymity said by the time the Nkaisserry arrived at the hospital he was already dead.
He further dismissed claims that the late had driven himself to the hospital for check up terming the claims as mere rumors.
"The doctors received the late at around 1am and he was already dead. Since our profession does not allow doctors to assume, they run all the emergency procedures amid efforts to resuscitate him but unfortunately he was already past that," the manager said.
The source further said in doctors assessment Nkaissery had no signs of sickness.
Asked if it was poisoning, the manager said, "Doctors will not look foolish to say it was poisoning or heart attack only for postmortem to say otherwise".
In their quest to establish what might have transpired, the manager said even his wife confirmed that the late CS had no signs of sickness.
"The doctors tried to interrogate her wife but she said the late arrived in the house at around 10pm. Had a little conversation and planned that they would leave the house at around 9am the following day for usual activities before they retired to bed at 11pm," he said.
The source said, Nkaisserry 67, was brought at the hospital in company of his wife, security and two friends whom the wife said had spent the entire day together.
Dectives have so far commenced investigations into the sudden death.
The officers have cordoned off the CS's Nairobi home in Hardy, Karen estate and Bomas of Kenya.
The two places are being swept clean seeking to collect any evidence that may be linked to his death.
Read:Police cordon Nkaissery's home, Bomas of Kenya as probe begins
Nkaissery served in the military for 29 years where he ascended to the rank of Major General before he joined politics in 2002.
In November 2014, President Uhuru Kenyatta appointed Nkaissery as Interior CS to replace Joseph Lenku who was sacked for failing to secure the country following two massacres by the al Shabaab.
Follow the money...internal docket is the main bastion of kick backs and all kind of corruption, main generator of campaign funds for the government in power and the main fulcrumHe is the Third Internal Security Minister with Maa connection to die in or out of office.
for rigging.
The information doing rounds on social media is that Nkaissery was informed he would be fired on Monday and Matiangi interviewed for his job. Stupid of Uhuru not to know that the Interior CS has more access to intelligence than President.Bullshiet, lets see between NASWA and JP who makes the most and best of his death.
He tried to go to State House to plead and no information if he entered. It is believed he was not allowed in. He tried to meet Uhuru at Uhuru park during saba saba but his security would not allow the Maa close enough.
He then knew it was all over. At Uhuru Park, there are photos of him fraternizing with his former ODM people - but his Jubilee folks seem to have got orders to isolate him. He even hi-fived Kidero and others. He is supposed to have been waiting for his car to go home.
Apparently he developed difficulties either on the way or at home and had to be rushed to Karen hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival. The story about him having gone to the hospital for a check up, got admitted and then died is an Itumbi, Manoa Esipisu crap that will haunt them for ever. The state cannot tell a single lie about the death of a VIP. Better shut up - like Moi seemed to ignore the death of his pimp - Echakara when his dick was cut off by Moi's other Ugandan friend and owner of Mugoya. When the state tells a lie, it gives fodder to conspiracy theories.
Am I saying he was killed by Jubilee as the latest theory goes? No. I think nobody can be that stupid.
I think he became a victim of a vicious rumor perhaps by a cartel that needs to vacuum clean his ministry before elections. Interior is the best placed to be in transition and elections! The budget is unlimited and no controls because you can even lock up the Auditor General accusing him of endangering national security and no newspaper would dare publish!
Otherwise I think it was a heart attack - the massive type. A massive attack better get you inside a ICU where you will have 50% chance of recovery. The chances become 0 the moment it takes 10 minutes to get you hooked on those things. I have witnessed a few of these while in Europe at a time when there was an epidemic and I never saw anybody attacked at home or office survive.
Lastly, Nkaissery had dictatorial tendencies and his rhetoric would have seen Kenya get in to a real war. Like any tyrant, he is loved by his family and close friends but cause fear in the entire country - even from those who share his political views.
He broke the law with impunity campaignbing for Jubilee and issuinbg partisan edicts and decrees directed at the opposition at exacvtlxy the time his neutrality or appearance of it was most needed. He simply trashed the fact that ministers were not supposed to participate in partisan politics.
He issued threats to opposition figures and purported to issue orders to the police - something he cannot legally do. His role is limited to policy and cannot be likened to that of the DPP under the constitution. He was a man who did not unbderstand the law and whenever he did, chose to disagree with its provisions about his role.
He pushed for the Draconian Security Laws that saw the courts strike out a host of them. He nevertheless continued to act as if those laws were not struck down.
I think he was put in place for his rhetoric and willingness to allow Kikuyu cartels to steal without abandon. They have now identified another useful idiot in the name of Matiang'i to facilitate their midnight robbery of the state as we proceed to elections.
Follow the money...internal docket is the main bastion of kick backs and all kind of corruption, main generator of campaign funds for the government in power and the main fulcrumHe is the Third Internal Security Minister with Maa connection to die in or out of office.
for rigging.
The only poison I know the tt can kill that quickly is a choline based poison used in surgery. It has to be injected though.
unless you have full timeline of his movement through out the day then its difficult to rule out poisoning through ingestion. How difficult is it to obtain his medical records?
NASA principals should beef up their security as we get down to the home stretch.The only poison I know the tt can kill that quickly is a choline based poison used in surgery. It has to be injected though.
. If its intestinal poisoning you'll see lots of vomiting as the body tries to get rid of the poison even hours post death.
Looks like police were notified of a murder, so they cordoned off all areas they know he visited.unless you have full timeline of his movement through out the day then its difficult to rule out poisoning through ingestion. How difficult is it to obtain his medical records?
NASA principals should beef up their security as we get down to the home stretch.The only poison I know the tt can kill that quickly is a choline based poison used in surgery. It has to be injected though.
It's alleged Nkaiserry bitterly disagreed with Statehouse operatives last night IEBC appealing against yesterdays court rulling.
— Abdullahi Musa (@AbdullahiRasmi) July 8, 2017
Here is the timeline
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Joseph-Nkaissery-death-the-timeline/1056-4006246-g60wdz/index.html
why is Nation peddling false timeline?????
Here is Nkaissery closest friend Mugambi who was with Nkaissery confirming the same timeline I gave.
remember how karisa maitha was taken out. poison laced phoneHere is the timeline
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Joseph-Nkaissery-death-the-timeline/1056-4006246-g60wdz/index.html
uhuru tone during his speach wasn't okay. At some point it looked like he was making threats e.g. "we will not allow for any lapse of security".Uhunye is an addict and his behavior lines up with that
He also hurriedly came up with nkaisery replacement, as if it cs matiangi was nkaisery vp and automatic heir for internal security ministry
Quote from: patel link=topic=4666.msg33860#msg3386h0 date=1499559587why is Nation peddling false timeline?????
Here is Nkaissery closest friend Mugambi who was with Nkaissery confirming the same timeline I gave.
remember how karisa maitha was taken out. poison laced phoneHere is the timeline
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Joseph-Nkaissery-death-the-timeline/1056-4006246-g60wdz/index.html
You are pathetic. Karisha maitha died of heart attack after taking Viagra having abandoned a government personal assistant that was managing his failing heart. He took a mistress to Germany instead the rest is detsils. If you have ever studied criminal justice you will find why eye witnesses and friends are the most unreliable when it comes to matter of identification and alibi. Dn timeline lineup with what is known so far .. remember in matters like this no one is recording time ..if you think you were with him at 9 it may have been 8 or 10
uhuru tone during his speach wasn't okay. At some point it looked like he was making threats e.g. "we will not allow for any lapse of security".Uhunye is an addict and his behavior lines up with that
He also hurriedly came up with nkaisery replacement, as if it cs matiangi was nkaisery vp and automatic heir for internal security ministry
disagreeing on an issue is not uncommon in the cabinet. I bet you Uhuru called him because he wanted to hear a different view. Plus at that time Uhuru as usual would be dead drunk so it would be interesting conversation between the two.
It is independent. Cabinet can discuss this matter as they are an interested party. I do not think Uhuru would be telling minister of justice to pick the red phone and call iebc but he could direct him or her to protest to iebc
It is independent. Cabinet can discuss this matter as they are an interested party. I do not think Uhuru would be telling minister of justice to pick the red phone and call iebc but he could direct him or her to protest to iebc
The putative State House discussion and position would be in opposition to public participation in the ballot tender though. Githu Muigai is opposed to the court ruling. Just putting this out.
Omollo
Do you have proof? You become a rumour monger.
Windy
This just political grand standing by jubilee. They may be interested in appealing if 1) they want save face after losing twice to NASA challenge 2) intended to influence ballot printer or corrupt the printing process.
Remember this politics and trickery deciet is part of the game.
NASA is sealing rigging loopholes and jubilee intends to unseal them ..iiebc is a referee appointed to oversee this duel. It is tricky business for iebc. Even in USA elections are litigated heavily
National Intelligence Service (NIS) boss Phillip Kameru’s brother was among two people killed on Saturday night in a car crash on Kiandu-Othaya road in Nyeri County.
Mr Augustine Mathenge was killed together with a friend who was travelling with him when the car rolled and plunged into Gura River at around 10PM. The crash happened about a kilometre from their home.
Police records showed that the NIS boss’ brother was behind the wheel at the time of the crash and the passenger was identified as Patrick Kibue.
Mr Mathenge was also the director of Nyeri based security company, Lichi Security.
Mr Augustine Mathenge was killed together with a friend who was travelling with him when the car rolled and plunged into Gura River at around 10PM. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
The two are said to have been headed to Mr Mathenge’s home in Othaya from Kiandu in Tetu a few minutes to 10PM.
Police said that the vehicle appeared to have veered off the road and rolled for over 100 metres down a cliff before landing into Gura River.
Area residents recalled hearing a loud bang and seeing the Toyota Hilux double cabin rolling from the road.
Mr James Wachira, a local, told the Nation that the passenger in the vehicle was thrown out as the car rolled but Mathenge remained inside until the pickup landed in the river.
Efforts to rescue the two were unsuccessful as they died on the spot. It is however unclear what led to the accident. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
“We saw lights rolling downhill and then a loud bang. When we rushed we found the driver lying by the car in the river. The passenger was thrown out,” said Mr Wachira.
Efforts to rescue the two were unsuccessful as they died on the spot. It is however unclear what led to the accident.
Nyeri South Divisional Police Commander Joseph Mwika while confirming the identity of the occupants of the vehicle said that investigations are underway to identify the cause of the crash.
A rescue team from the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) pulls the wreckage from the river on Sunday. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
“Both the driver and the passenger died on the spot. The cause of the crash is still unclear but investigations have begun,” said Mr Mwika.
A rescue team from the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) was on Sunday called in to pull the wreckage of the vehicle from the river
The Ethnic Rag (http://mobile.nation.co.ke/counties/nyeri/NIS-boss-brother-killed-in-road-crash/3112264-4007124-item-1-qnc0ayz/index.html)QuoteNational Intelligence Service (NIS) boss Phillip Kameru’s brother was among two people killed on Saturday night in a car crash on Kiandu-Othaya road in Nyeri County.
Mr Augustine Mathenge was killed together with a friend who was travelling with him when the car rolled and plunged into Gura River at around 10PM. The crash happened about a kilometre from their home.
Police records showed that the NIS boss’ brother was behind the wheel at the time of the crash and the passenger was identified as Patrick Kibue.
Mr Mathenge was also the director of Nyeri based security company, Lichi Security.
Mr Augustine Mathenge was killed together with a friend who was travelling with him when the car rolled and plunged into Gura River at around 10PM. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
The two are said to have been headed to Mr Mathenge’s home in Othaya from Kiandu in Tetu a few minutes to 10PM.
Police said that the vehicle appeared to have veered off the road and rolled for over 100 metres down a cliff before landing into Gura River.
Area residents recalled hearing a loud bang and seeing the Toyota Hilux double cabin rolling from the road.
Mr James Wachira, a local, told the Nation that the passenger in the vehicle was thrown out as the car rolled but Mathenge remained inside until the pickup landed in the river.
Efforts to rescue the two were unsuccessful as they died on the spot. It is however unclear what led to the accident. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
“We saw lights rolling downhill and then a loud bang. When we rushed we found the driver lying by the car in the river. The passenger was thrown out,” said Mr Wachira.
Efforts to rescue the two were unsuccessful as they died on the spot. It is however unclear what led to the accident.
Nyeri South Divisional Police Commander Joseph Mwika while confirming the identity of the occupants of the vehicle said that investigations are underway to identify the cause of the crash.
A rescue team from the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) pulls the wreckage from the river on Sunday. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
“Both the driver and the passenger died on the spot. The cause of the crash is still unclear but investigations have begun,” said Mr Mwika.
A rescue team from the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) was on Sunday called in to pull the wreckage of the vehicle from the river
Omollo
To be honest with you I do not know which ministries jubilee govt has. I have no interest to know as I hold jubiled with a lot of contempt
You have no proof of Uhuru calling iebc official or instructing them so we can take your statements as hearsay and opinions that are not of NASA. As a supporter of Nasa I would hope you can offer your own opinions here without purpoting to be speak of NASA.
Anything I write here is my opinion and not that of Uhuru or NASA ..I try to be objective
What is the conspiracy on this? Seems like a drunk driving case and carelessness of not wearing seat belts..are you seeing ghosts everywhere ..
More condolences continue to pour in as Kenyans come to terms with the shocking death of Interior Cabinet Secretary Joseph Nkaissery as questions are raised over his demise.
The National Super Alliance (Nasa) has also raised questions over the CS’s death.
The Opposition outfit has called for thorough investigations into the death of Maj-Gen (rtd) Nkaissery asking “how such a healthy person can drop dead in a matter of hours”.
“We hope the promised speedy investigations by government takes off, are genuine and will not be mired in deliberate mix-ups that could lead to cover-ups.
“The country, and more so, the family stands to benefit from knowing how such a healthy person can drop dead in a matter of hours,” said Nasa co-principal Musalia Mudavadi in a statement.
Mr Mudavadi said that it was his hope and that of the opposition that the death of Maj-Gen (rtd) Nkaissery was natural and not by the “…hand by evil forces intent on destabilising the country, especially during this election period,” he said.
Mr Mudavadi who is also the chairman of Nasa National Campaign Committee described the late as a man who believed that public service was a duty and a calling to serve at the best of his ability.
Nkaissery: Questions raised over his death
He added that his military training also instilled in him a high sense of discipline and patriotism for the country.
Mr Mudavadi in various interactions with Mr Nkaissery, he said, it was well known to him that deep-down, the CS was a very jovial and approachable person who cared a lot about a stable Kenya.
“We have always held the late Nkaissery in high esteem despite our various run-ins with him over his abrasiveness. We have however taken the rough streak in him in stride.
KENYA IS SAFE
“His work ethic was that of discipline and the scaling down of high insecurity in the last two years can be attributed to his methodical approach to tackling insecurity in the country,” said Mr Mudavadi.
On Saturday, during his address following the sudden death of the CS, President Uhuru Kenyatta reassured the country that Kenya was safe.
This came even as a team of detectives launched investigations into the death of the CS.
He died on Saturday morning after he was rushed to Karen Hospital in Nairobi.
The Ethnic Rag (http://mobile.nation.co.ke/counties/nyeri/NIS-boss-brother-killed-in-road-crash/3112264-4007124-item-1-qnc0ayz/index.html)QuoteNational Intelligence Service (NIS) boss Phillip Kameru’s brother was among two people killed on Saturday night in a car crash on Kiandu-Othaya road in Nyeri County.
Mr Augustine Mathenge was killed together with a friend who was travelling with him when the car rolled and plunged into Gura River at around 10PM. The crash happened about a kilometre from their home.
Police records showed that the NIS boss’ brother was behind the wheel at the time of the crash and the passenger was identified as Patrick Kibue.
Mr Mathenge was also the director of Nyeri based security company, Lichi Security.
Mr Augustine Mathenge was killed together with a friend who was travelling with him when the car rolled and plunged into Gura River at around 10PM. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
The two are said to have been headed to Mr Mathenge’s home in Othaya from Kiandu in Tetu a few minutes to 10PM.
Police said that the vehicle appeared to have veered off the road and rolled for over 100 metres down a cliff before landing into Gura River.
Area residents recalled hearing a loud bang and seeing the Toyota Hilux double cabin rolling from the road.
Mr James Wachira, a local, told the Nation that the passenger in the vehicle was thrown out as the car rolled but Mathenge remained inside until the pickup landed in the river.
Efforts to rescue the two were unsuccessful as they died on the spot. It is however unclear what led to the accident. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
“We saw lights rolling downhill and then a loud bang. When we rushed we found the driver lying by the car in the river. The passenger was thrown out,” said Mr Wachira.
Efforts to rescue the two were unsuccessful as they died on the spot. It is however unclear what led to the accident.
Nyeri South Divisional Police Commander Joseph Mwika while confirming the identity of the occupants of the vehicle said that investigations are underway to identify the cause of the crash.
A rescue team from the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) pulls the wreckage from the river on Sunday. PHOTO | JOSEPH KANYI | NATION MEDIA GROUP
“Both the driver and the passenger died on the spot. The cause of the crash is still unclear but investigations have begun,” said Mr Mwika.
A rescue team from the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) was on Sunday called in to pull the wreckage of the vehicle from the river
Nkaissery's wife discharged from hospital, to attend evening service https://t.co/Wj5yrokKbh pic.twitter.com/cD2COETYED
— TheStarKenya (@TheStarKenya) July 9, 2017
Curious to know why family(if at all they did coz we know the media) opted to call Boinnet 1st instead of rushing mzee to hosp&call in way pic.twitter.com/UqEdqqa1JV
— Kenya West (@KinyanBoy) July 9, 2017
Invalid Tweet ID
why are you cheapening this site by posting this kind of trash?
You just cheapening this site. You are a virus everywhere you go you destroy and then leave in a huff.. It is like you bi=-polar and once you go maniac you cannot dial down.. bloody nugu
You should go back. You are greatly missed by other urchins.
Njamlik licked you good you still want to back to your Cyber Daddy
This is a developing story so media houses are bound to get some stuff wrong...happens all the times. Look at Europe terror attacks, Mara it was a lone attacker, Mara he was in company, had a machete, knife,shot gun,backpack...
So in a rush to be the first to inform, they will trip here and there. Speculate all you wish but Nkaiserry was not assassinated.
POST-MORTEM results show the late Joseph Nkaissery suffered a heart attack; pathologists say no evidence of foul play. pic.twitter.com/JXDlONJO5j
— CapitalFM Breaking News (@BreakingNewsKE) July 10, 2017
In Kenya, a "big man" can never, ever die just like that---from an accident, ill health, old age, etc. If one digs deeply enough, there is always a Someone behind the death. And especially with elections just around the corner ... witch-doctors are making a killing. Even with many "small people", there's always a Someone; e.g, in my home-home village, almost every death---regardless of how, or when, or where it occurred---can be attributed to a Someone whose hatred for the departed was always known, even if it was hidden, with no public record of animosity.
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/03/how-politicians-are-enriching-witch-doctors_c1588654 (http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/03/how-politicians-are-enriching-witch-doctors_c1588654)
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/21/video-lazy-opposition-importing-witch-doctors-to-blind-samburu-voters_c1584133 (http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/21/video-lazy-opposition-importing-witch-doctors-to-blind-samburu-voters_c1584133)
What's more all the details are always known. In the old days the facts would learned from bars, the streets, women doing laundry, etc.; e.g., I have heard of the details of Ouko's death, right up to his last words to his killers. These days we have "social media" for a speedier dissemination.
The truth is out there.
Yep. The situation is not helped by the sterling track record of Kenya police and resolving murders.
This is a developing story so media houses are bound to get some stuff wrong...happens all the times. Look at Europe terror attacks, Mara it was a lone attacker, Mara he was in company, had a machete, knife,shot gun,backpack...
So in a rush to be the first to inform, they will trip here and there. Speculate all you wish but Nkaiserry was not assassinated.POST-MORTEM results show the late Joseph Nkaissery suffered a heart attack; pathologists say no evidence of foul play. pic.twitter.com/JXDlONJO5j
— CapitalFM Breaking News (@BreakingNewsKE) July 10, 2017
Where on earth is it written that heart attacks can't be induced?
But think, Whats the success rate in inducing one some hundreds on meters away from a top hospital?
Where on earth is it written that heart attacks can't be induced?
But think, Whats the success rate in inducing one some hundreds on meters away from a top hospital?
No idea. Would there be a connection between the purely chemical/medical aspect of the "inducement" and the distance to anything?
Yes, if pros were involved, he was going to some remote place the next day. That would have been the best place to strikeWhere on earth is it written that heart attacks can't be induced?
But think, Whats the success rate in inducing one some hundreds on meters away from a top hospital?
No idea. Would there be a connection between the purely chemical/medical aspect of the "inducement" and the distance to anything?
Yes, if pros were involved, he was going to some remote place the next day. That would have been the best place to strike
Yes, if pros were involved, he was going to some remote place the next day. That would have been the best place to strike
Sorry, I'm slow on this one ... don't know how these things work these days in Kenya. Not that I ever have. What is the "connection", and why would the "remote place the next day" be the best?
On Nkaissery,the hospital initially dismissed reports that he had died of cardiac arrest. This drove theorists wild. What kills like a heart attack but is not? The poisons I know don't mimic heart attack; they induce one. If he came into contact with any, say cyanide at Bomas at the latest 2100H when he left, it must have been in such low dosage to let him get home, have supper before its effects showed up. But if you want to take him out not too fast but far away from you when he's comfortably at home, you got to factor in how fast he can get help. He lived quite near Karen Hospital and this means that's likely to be the first place they rush to.
Now, supposing you struck the next day when he was airborne or well into Kajiado in another village. He's least likely to get help so you succeed. This is my thinking.
In a nutshell. it's hard to see anything in his death that suggested foul play, and am glad the post mortem results almost agree with me
On Nkaissery,the hospital initially dismissed reports that he had died of cardiac arrest. This drove theorists wild. What kills like a heart attack but is not? The poisons I know don't mimic heart attack; they induce one. If he came into contact with any, say cyanide at Bomas at the latest 2100H when he left, it must have been in such low dosage to let him get home, have supper before its effects showed up. But if you want to take him out not too fast but far away from you when he's comfortably at home, you got to factor in how fast he can get help. He lived quite near Karen Hospital and this means that's likely to be the first place they rush to.
Now, supposing you struck the next day when he was airborne or well into Kajiado in another village. He's least likely to get help so you succeed. This is my thinking.
In a nutshell. it's hard to see anything in his death that suggested foul play, and am glad the post mortem results almost agree with me
Fair enough. The following is largely for my amusement. :D
Maybe the killers are smart guys. Like you. So they figure the best place to finish him is at home. Then when the smart guys do their reasoning, they will decide that it couldn't possibly have been done at home, because dot, dot, dot, etc. Smart killers doing smart thinking or something. They figure the local line will be "struck the next day when he was airborne or well into Kajiado in another village. He's least likely to get help so you succeed.". Or something. The "reverse psychology" thing.
As to the poisons ... one of the greatest History books I have ever read is "The Annals of Imperial Rome" by Tacitus. Great, entertaining stuff ... not the way we learned history: this one discovered that at such-and-such date, and that one did blah on whatever date. Imperial Rome was full of all sorts of skulduggery and debauchery: just about everyone is busy fighting and (especially in the higher echelons) drinking and feasting and f**king and killing everyone else (to and with everyone, including family members). There is a great deal there about poisons, how long they to take effect, what the effects are, and so on.
If you have read Taictus, then you will recall, for example, the specialized and subtle skills used by Agrippina to poison her husband, the emperor Claudius, in contrast with those used to finish his sidekicks. Your statements reminded me that in that case the poison-lady, highly regarded for her skills had to take into account such things as "who", "what time", "distance to doctor", "low dosage", "after supper", etc. [If I recall correctly some of the parameters the poison-lady had to work with were off , and on the first attempt, at supper, Claudius had such a good time--intended to make him lower his guard--- that he got drunk and vomited everything, and it probably didn't help that initially there had been a slight miscalculation in the distance-to-doctor, but that had nothing to do with the physical distance. Minor adjustment were them made.]. So, there are poisons, and then there are poisons. I doubt that we are, with a reliance on technology, ahead of those Romans. But I would not be surprised to learn that some of our kienyeji doctors are well up there and among those who are making a killing in this season.
As to the present case, I have little medical knowledge, so I have been doing a bit of Googling: "how long does it take to die from a heart attack?", "how to induce a heart attack", "how to make death look like a heart attack", etc. [American TV is actually full of relevant "real-life" stories ... husband murders wife, police finds record of recent computer searches, etc.] From what I have gathered so far, it seems possible to mimic a hear attack to within an accuracy of under 5 minutes.
So, then. Was Nkaiserry finished or what? I don't know, but I doubt it. Still, I have found the what-if, figuring-out exercise to be an interesting and educational one; and I would be interested to "hear" of other's views.
It must been a massive heart attack. I called it ..the doctor who declined to speculate on waht killed him wanted to wait till for post mortem.The best thing to do in such cases is to give the individual strong coffee. It will vasolidate the arteries so that the patient can survive long enough to make it to hospital. A dose of aspirin will also improve survival chances. Of course CPR will help too.
I largely agree with what you are saying. Also I think there is something to be said for the mwananchi who believes in foul play each time with or without evidence. Part of this psyche is informed by the fact that in Kenya's history the government has a shabby record of solving high profile murders let alone denying actual known murders(Ouko comes to mind). That coupled with the belief that a big man cannot die of natural causes leaves the Kenyan stuck in that mindset.
Then there is the general level of violent crime that would provide a reliable cover for any would-be assassins. An actual assassination can exploit this situation and be convincingly buried in the background noise of random violent crime, even if it is not random.
My opinion that there is no foul play in Nkaissery's death is only because I haven't seen any evidence. Therefore something like the tweet shared by vooke doesn't sway me one way or the other.
We have postmortem and advanced medicine. Killing is very easy; getting away with it is notOn Nkaissery,the hospital initially dismissed reports that he had died of cardiac arrest. This drove theorists wild. What kills like a heart attack but is not? The poisons I know don't mimic heart attack; they induce one. If he came into contact with any, say cyanide at Bomas at the latest 2100H when he left, it must have been in such low dosage to let him get home, have supper before its effects showed up. But if you want to take him out not too fast but far away from you when he's comfortably at home, you got to factor in how fast he can get help. He lived quite near Karen Hospital and this means that's likely to be the first place they rush to.
Now, supposing you struck the next day when he was airborne or well into Kajiado in another village. He's least likely to get help so you succeed. This is my thinking.
In a nutshell. it's hard to see anything in his death that suggested foul play, and am glad the post mortem results almost agree with me
Fair enough. The following is largely for my amusement. :D
Maybe the killers are smart guys. Like you. So they figure the best place to finish him is at home. Then when the smart guys do their reasoning, they will decide that it couldn't possibly have been done at home, because dot, dot, dot, etc. Smart killers doing smart thinking or something. They figure the local line will be "struck the next day when he was airborne or well into Kajiado in another village. He's least likely to get help so you succeed.". Or something. The "reverse psychology" thing.
As to the poisons ... one of the greatest History books I have ever read is "The Annals of Imperial Rome" by Tacitus. Great, entertaining stuff ... not the way we learned history: this one discovered that at such-and-such date, and that one did blah on whatever date. Imperial Rome was full of all sorts of skulduggery and debauchery: just about everyone is busy fighting and (especially in the higher echelons) drinking and feasting and f**king and killing everyone else (to and with everyone, including family members). There is a great deal there about poisons, how long they to take effect, what the effects are, and so on.
If you have read Taictus, then you will recall, for example, the specialized and subtle skills used by Agrippina to poison her husband, the emperor Claudius, in contrast with those used to finish his sidekicks. Your statements reminded me that in that case the poison-lady, highly regarded for her skills had to take into account such things as "who", "what time", "distance to doctor", "low dosage", "after supper", etc. [If I recall correctly some of the parameters the poison-lady had to work with were off , and on the first attempt, at supper, Claudius had such a good time--intended to make him lower his guard--- that he got drunk and vomited everything, and it probably didn't help that initially there had been a slight miscalculation in the distance-to-doctor, but that had nothing to do with the physical distance. Minor adjustment were them made.]. So, there are poisons, and then there are poisons. I doubt that we are, with a reliance on technology, ahead of those Romans. But I would not be surprised to learn that some of our kienyeji doctors are well up there and among those who are making a killing in this season.
As to the present case, I have little medical knowledge, so I have been doing a bit of Googling: "how long does it take to die from a heart attack?", "how to induce a heart attack", "how to make death look like a heart attack", etc. [American TV is actually full of relevant "real-life" stories ... husband murders wife, police finds record of recent computer searches, etc.] From what I have gathered so far, it seems possible to mimic a hear attack to within an accuracy of under 5 minutes.
So, then. Was Nkaiserry finished or what? I don't know, but I doubt it. Still, I have found the what-if, figuring-out exercise to be an interesting and educational one; and I would be interested to "hear" of other's views.
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
We have postmortem and advanced medicine. Killing is very easy; getting away with it is not
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough. Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
We have espionage fiction fan here. Fixed/landlines are extinct or just about there. So if that is possible, it can only be a cellphone.
The CAUSE is heart attack due to high blood pressure. That's all the postmortem did
The CAUSE of the CAUSE is what will be determined by toxicological tests which take weeks
I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.
People who inhale significant concentrations of cyanide gas "are dead within minutes . . . basically, the person internally suffocates," said Dr. Marc Bayer, chief of toxicology at Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-11/news/mn-180_1_hydrogen-cyanide-gas
Bayer said that within a short time of breathing large amounts of the gas, "the person should be rendered unconscious."
Hydrogen cyanide gas can take longer to work on an adult such as Harris than an elderly person or an infant. It also takes time for the concentration of the gas to build up in a chamber. In Arizona this week, it took 10 minutes, 31 seconds to put to death a 43-year-old man convicted of killing three businessmen.
I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.You believe in one too many things. They use satellite phones.
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough. Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.
ThurayaI believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.
Yes, that obvious aspect never occurred to me. I have no knowledge of such matters, but I am intrigued by the fact that the phone has to be red.
Anyways, back to the mechanics of the delivery, where too my knowledge is limited. The two standard methods seem to be swallowing an appropriate chemical form or breathing some gaseous form. It seems reasonable to assume that he did not swallow anything via phone, so I did some Googling on the gas stuff. it appears that the required amounts and concentration has to be quite high, and I can't imagine how it could be achieved via phone.QuotePeople who inhale significant concentrations of cyanide gas "are dead within minutes . . . basically, the person internally suffocates," said Dr. Marc Bayer, chief of toxicology at Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-11/news/mn-180_1_hydrogen-cyanide-gas
Bayer said that within a short time of breathing large amounts of the gas, "the person should be rendered unconscious."
Hydrogen cyanide gas can take longer to work on an adult such as Harris than an elderly person or an infant. It also takes time for the concentration of the gas to build up in a chamber. In Arizona this week, it took 10 minutes, 31 seconds to put to death a 43-year-old man convicted of killing three businessmen.
I'm not saying that Nkaiserry couldn't have been offed in that manner, but, as a matter of curiosity, I'd be interested to "hear" you "theories" on how it might have been delivered. Actually, I'm also keen to know why you think it must have been cyanide delivered by phone.
As for the family, they should be able to check the basics of your "theory" in a simple way: since Nkaiserry has, I imagine, been answering that phone without dying (until yesterday), the first thing they should do is look into when they last had a phone "repairman" in the house
I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.
Yes, that obvious aspect never occurred to me. I have no knowledge of such matters, but I am intrigued by the fact that the phone has to be red.
Anyways, back to the mechanics of the delivery, where too my knowledge is limited. The two standard methods seem to be swallowing an appropriate chemical form or breathing some gaseous form. It seems reasonable to assume that he did not swallow anything via phone, so I did some Googling on the gas stuff. it appears that the required amounts and concentration has to be quite high, and I can't imagine how it could be achieved via phone.QuotePeople who inhale significant concentrations of cyanide gas "are dead within minutes . . . basically, the person internally suffocates," said Dr. Marc Bayer, chief of toxicology at Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-11/news/mn-180_1_hydrogen-cyanide-gas
Bayer said that within a short time of breathing large amounts of the gas, "the person should be rendered unconscious."
Hydrogen cyanide gas can take longer to work on an adult such as Harris than an elderly person or an infant. It also takes time for the concentration of the gas to build up in a chamber. In Arizona this week, it took 10 minutes, 31 seconds to put to death a 43-year-old man convicted of killing three businessmen.
I'm not saying that Nkaiserry couldn't have been offed in that manner, but, as a matter of curiosity, I'd be interested to "hear" you "theories" on how it might have been delivered. Actually, I'm also keen to know why you think it must have been cyanide delivered by phone.
As for the family, they should be able to check the basics of your "theory" in a simple way: since Nkaiserry has, I imagine, been answering that phone without dying (until yesterday), the first thing they should do is look into when they last had a phone "repairman" in the house
I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.You believe in one too many things. They use satellite phones.
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough. Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.
On the phone headset receiver all you have is 4 wires (red, black, green, white) speaker and the microphone and may be few electronics depending on where volume adjuster is installed so you have a lot of real estate to install electronic air diffuser which can be triggered either by ring tone when you pick the phone or be triggered by voice when you answer the phone...microphone converts sound to electrical signal. Electronic air diffusers is more like electronic air fresheners installed on public bathrooms which are triggered by motion, smell or set on timer........I hope that helps
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
We have espionage fiction fan here. Fixed/landlines are extinct or just about there. So if that is possible, it can only be a cellphone.
The CAUSE is heart attack due to high blood pressure. That's all the postmortem did
The CAUSE of the CAUSE is what will be determined by toxicological tests which take weeks
On the phone headset receiver all you have is 4 wires (red, black, green, white) speaker and the microphone and may be few electronics depending on where volume adjuster is installed so you have a lot of real estate to install electronic air diffuser which can be triggered either by ring tone when you pick the phone or be triggered by voice when you answer the phone...microphone converts sound to electrical signal. Electronic air diffusers is more like electronic air fresheners installed on public bathrooms which are triggered by motion, smell or set on timer........I hope that helps
Thanks. Actually my question was not so much about the physics and electronics as it was about the volume of gas ... noting that "gas chambers" used to execute criminals in the USA were (relatively) quite large and had to be filled properly in order to be quickly effective.
I understand you are one of those termagant contributor .......do you have any evidence regarding satellite phones.As little as you have for your 'secure landlines'I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.You believe in one too many things. They use satellite phones.
The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry
Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough. Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.