NKAISSERY is Dead!!!

[Globalcitizen12]

It must been a massive heart attack.  I called it ..the doctor who declined to speculate on waht killed him wanted to wait till for post mortem.

[Georgesoros]

It must been a massive heart attack.  I called it ..the doctor who declined to speculate on waht killed him wanted to wait till for post mortem.

The best thing to do in such cases is to give the individual strong coffee. It will vasolidate the arteries so that the patient can survive long enough to make it to hospital. A dose of aspirin will also improve survival chances. Of course CPR will help too.

[MOON Ki]

I largely agree with what you are saying.  Also I think there is something to be said for the mwananchi who believes in foul play each time with or without evidence.  Part of this psyche is informed by the fact that in Kenya's history the government has a shabby record of solving high profile murders let alone denying actual known murders(Ouko comes to mind).  That coupled with the belief that a big man cannot die of natural causes leaves the Kenyan stuck in that mindset.

Then there is the general level of violent crime that would provide a reliable cover for any would-be assassins.  An actual assassination can exploit this situation and be convincingly buried in the background noise of random violent crime, even if it is not random. 

My opinion that there is no foul play in Nkaissery's death is only because I haven't seen any evidence.  Therefore something like the tweet shared by vooke doesn't sway me one way or the other.

I totally agree with you, especially in the "background noise" bit; I suspect, without any solid evidence, that there's probably quite a bit of that (at all levels) in places like Nairobi.   Until we have some serious reforms, I doubt that we can rely on the police, forensics, etc. .... the witch-doctors might even be better, in that success in their trade requires a pretty good understanding of people and the environment.  [Of course, killing people and that sort of thing---albinos!---is beyond the pale, but just telling stories and waving twigs around ...]

Do I care about Nkaiserry's death or how he died?   Not really.   As I see it, the real problem with is not that he died----I doubt that many Kenyans will miss him--but  that he died at an "awkward" moment.  Had he died in, say, November, the reaction would probably have been quite different.   

[vooke]

On Nkaissery,the hospital initially dismissed reports that he had died of cardiac arrest. This drove theorists wild. What kills like a heart attack but is not? The poisons I know don't mimic heart attack; they induce one. If he came into contact with any, say cyanide at Bomas at the latest 2100H when he left, it must have been in such low dosage to let him get home, have supper before its effects showed up. But if you want to take him out not too fast but far away from you when he's comfortably at home, you got to factor in how fast he can get help. He lived quite near Karen Hospital and this means that's likely to be the first place they rush to.

Now, supposing you struck the next day when he was airborne or well into Kajiado  in another village. He's least likely to get help so you succeed. This is my thinking.

In a nutshell. it's hard to see anything in his death that suggested foul play, and am glad the post mortem results almost agree with me

Fair enough.   The following is largely for my amusement.     

Maybe the killers are smart guys.  Like you.  So they figure the best place to finish him is at home.   Then when the smart guys do their reasoning, they will decide that it couldn't possibly have been done at home, because dot, dot, dot, etc. Smart killers doing smart thinking or something.   They figure the local line will be "struck the next day when he was airborne or well into Kajiado  in another village. He's least likely to get help so you succeed.".  Or something.  The "reverse psychology" thing.

As to the poisons ... one of the greatest History books I have ever read is "The Annals of Imperial Rome" by Tacitus.   Great, entertaining stuff ... not the way we learned history: this one discovered that at such-and-such date, and that one did blah on whatever date.  Imperial Rome was full of all sorts of skulduggery and debauchery: just about everyone is busy fighting and (especially in the higher echelons)  drinking and feasting and f**king and killing everyone else (to and with everyone, including family members).     There is a great deal there about poisons, how long they to take effect, what the effects are, and so on.   

If you have read Taictus, then you will recall, for example,  the specialized and subtle skills used by Agrippina to poison her husband, the emperor Claudius, in contrast with those used to finish his sidekicks.  Your statements reminded me that in that case the poison-lady, highly regarded for her skills had to take into   account such things as "who", "what time", "distance to doctor", "low dosage", "after supper", etc.   [If I recall correctly some of the parameters the poison-lady had to work with were off , and on the first attempt, at supper,  Claudius had such a good time--intended to make him lower his guard--- that he got drunk and vomited everything, and it probably didn't help that initially  there had been a slight miscalculation in the distance-to-doctor, but that had nothing to do with the physical distance.  Minor adjustment were them made.].   So, there are poisons, and then there are poisons.  I doubt that we are, with a reliance on  technology, ahead of those Romans.  But I would not be surprised to learn that some of our kienyeji doctors are well up there and among those who are making a killing in this season.

As to the present case, I have little medical knowledge, so I have been doing a bit of Googling: "how long does it take to die from a heart attack?", "how to induce a heart attack", "how to make death look like a heart attack", etc.    [American TV is actually full of relevant "real-life" stories ... husband murders wife, police finds record of recent computer searches, etc.]  From what I have gathered so far, it seems possible to mimic a hear attack to within an accuracy of under 5 minutes.

So, then.   Was Nkaiserry finished or what?  I don't know, but I doubt it.   Still, I have found the what-if, figuring-out exercise to be an interesting and educational one; and I would be interested to "hear" of other's views.

We have postmortem and advanced medicine. Killing is very easy; getting away with it is not

[patel]

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

[Georgesoros]

Yes that can happen but I think this was coronary induced rather than pulmonary. Heart muscles dont die if its cyanide induced, rather the heart goes into a fibrilation making it imposible to breath.

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

[MOON Ki]

We have postmortem and advanced medicine. Killing is very easy; getting away with it is not

In Kenya?

[MOON Ki]

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough.   Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.

[vooke]

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

We have espionage fiction fan here. Fixed/landlines are extinct or just about there. So if that is possible, it can only be a cellphone.

The CAUSE is heart attack due to high blood pressure. That's all the postmortem did
The CAUSE of the CAUSE is what will be determined by toxicological tests which take weeks

[patel]

I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.

   

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough.   Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.

[patel]

I don't know you or where you live that national security issues are discussed kienyeji style through unsecured personal cellphone lines...
 

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

We have espionage fiction fan here. Fixed/landlines are extinct or just about there. So if that is possible, it can only be a cellphone.

The CAUSE is heart attack due to high blood pressure. That's all the postmortem did
The CAUSE of the CAUSE is what will be determined by toxicological tests which take weeks

[MOON Ki]

I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.

Yes, that obvious aspect never occurred to me.  I have no knowledge of such matters, but I am intrigued by the fact that the phone has to be red.   

Anyways, back to the mechanics of the delivery, where too my knowledge is limited.    The two standard methods seem to be swallowing an appropriate chemical form or breathing some gaseous form.   It seems reasonable to assume that he did not swallow anything via phone, so I did some Googling on the gas stuff.    it appears that the required amounts and concentration has to be quite high, and I can't imagine how it could be achieved via phone.   

People who inhale significant concentrations of cyanide gas "are dead within minutes . . . basically, the person internally suffocates," said Dr. Marc Bayer, chief of toxicology at Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.

Bayer said that within a short time of breathing large amounts of the gas, "the person should be rendered unconscious."

Hydrogen cyanide gas can take longer to work on an adult such as Harris than an elderly person or an infant. It also takes time for the concentration of the gas to build up in a chamber. In Arizona this week, it took 10 minutes, 31 seconds to put to death a 43-year-old man convicted of killing three businessmen.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-11/news/mn-180_1_hydrogen-cyanide-gas

I'm not saying that Nkaiserry couldn't have been offed in that manner, but, as a matter of curiosity, I'd be interested to "hear" you "theories" on how it might have been delivered.  Actually, I'm also keen to know why you think it must have been cyanide delivered by phone.

As for the family, they should be able to check the basics of your "theory" in a simple way: since Nkaiserry has, I imagine, been answering that phone without dying (until yesterday), the first thing they should do is look into when they last had a phone "repairman" in the house

[vooke]

I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.

   

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough.   Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.

You believe in one too many things. They use satellite phones.

[vooke]

I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.

Yes, that obvious aspect never occurred to me.  I have no knowledge of such matters, but I am intrigued by the fact that the phone has to be red.   

Anyways, back to the mechanics of the delivery, where too my knowledge is limited.    The two standard methods seem to be swallowing an appropriate chemical form or breathing some gaseous form.   It seems reasonable to assume that he did not swallow anything via phone, so I did some Googling on the gas stuff.    it appears that the required amounts and concentration has to be quite high, and I can't imagine how it could be achieved via phone.   

People who inhale significant concentrations of cyanide gas "are dead within minutes . . . basically, the person internally suffocates," said Dr. Marc Bayer, chief of toxicology at Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.

Bayer said that within a short time of breathing large amounts of the gas, "the person should be rendered unconscious."

Hydrogen cyanide gas can take longer to work on an adult such as Harris than an elderly person or an infant. It also takes time for the concentration of the gas to build up in a chamber. In Arizona this week, it took 10 minutes, 31 seconds to put to death a 43-year-old man convicted of killing three businessmen.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-11/news/mn-180_1_hydrogen-cyanide-gas

I'm not saying that Nkaiserry couldn't have been offed in that manner, but, as a matter of curiosity, I'd be interested to "hear" you "theories" on how it might have been delivered.  Actually, I'm also keen to know why you think it must have been cyanide delivered by phone.

As for the family, they should be able to check the basics of your "theory" in a simple way: since Nkaiserry has, I imagine, been answering that phone without dying (until yesterday), the first thing they should do is look into when they last had a phone "repairman" in the house

Thuraya

[patel]

On the phone headset receiver all you have is 4 wires (red, black, green, white) speaker and the microphone and may be few electronics depending on where volume adjuster is installed so you have a lot of real estate to install electronic air diffuser which can be triggered either by ring tone when you pick the phone or be triggered by voice when you answer the phone...microphone converts sound to electrical signal. Electronic air diffusers is more like electronic air fresheners installed on public bathrooms which are triggered by motion, smell or set on timer........I hope that helps 

I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.

Yes, that obvious aspect never occurred to me.  I have no knowledge of such matters, but I am intrigued by the fact that the phone has to be red.   

Anyways, back to the mechanics of the delivery, where too my knowledge is limited.    The two standard methods seem to be swallowing an appropriate chemical form or breathing some gaseous form.   It seems reasonable to assume that he did not swallow anything via phone, so I did some Googling on the gas stuff.    it appears that the required amounts and concentration has to be quite high, and I can't imagine how it could be achieved via phone.   

People who inhale significant concentrations of cyanide gas "are dead within minutes . . . basically, the person internally suffocates," said Dr. Marc Bayer, chief of toxicology at Olive View Medical Center in Sylmar.

Bayer said that within a short time of breathing large amounts of the gas, "the person should be rendered unconscious."

Hydrogen cyanide gas can take longer to work on an adult such as Harris than an elderly person or an infant. It also takes time for the concentration of the gas to build up in a chamber. In Arizona this week, it took 10 minutes, 31 seconds to put to death a 43-year-old man convicted of killing three businessmen.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-11/news/mn-180_1_hydrogen-cyanide-gas

I'm not saying that Nkaiserry couldn't have been offed in that manner, but, as a matter of curiosity, I'd be interested to "hear" you "theories" on how it might have been delivered.  Actually, I'm also keen to know why you think it must have been cyanide delivered by phone.

As for the family, they should be able to check the basics of your "theory" in a simple way: since Nkaiserry has, I imagine, been answering that phone without dying (until yesterday), the first thing they should do is look into when they last had a phone "repairman" in the house

[patel]

I understand you are one of those termagant contributor .......do you have any evidence regarding satellite phones. 

I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.

   

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough.   Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.

You believe in one too many things. They use satellite phones.

[MOON Ki]

On the phone headset receiver all you have is 4 wires (red, black, green, white) speaker and the microphone and may be few electronics depending on where volume adjuster is installed so you have a lot of real estate to install electronic air diffuser which can be triggered either by ring tone when you pick the phone or be triggered by voice when you answer the phone...microphone converts sound to electrical signal. Electronic air diffusers is more like electronic air fresheners installed on public bathrooms which are triggered by motion, smell or set on timer........I hope that helps 

Thanks.   Actually my question was not so much about the physics and electronics as it was about the volume of gas ... noting that "gas chambers" used to execute criminals in the USA were (relatively) quite large and had to be filled properly in order to be quickly  effective.   

[Georgesoros]

My friend you can be an athlete and still have a heart attack..
BP has nothing to do with heart attack.
You can go into Afib and have a heart attack.
My guess is his was a coronary heart disease. Too much buildup of cholesterol in the artery that lead to sudden heart failure.

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

We have espionage fiction fan here. Fixed/landlines are extinct or just about there. So if that is possible, it can only be a cellphone.

The CAUSE is heart attack due to high blood pressure. That's all the postmortem did
The CAUSE of the CAUSE is what will be determined by toxicological tests which take weeks

[patel]

Volume and concentration is definitely a factor but in a gas chamber remember you are trying to fill a whole room with gas and the subject is a ware so they can hold their breath for quite sometime.  With the phone the subject is not aware and most likely the microphone is right at your mouth and nostrils consuming all the fumes...that would not take much before you get dizzy. 

On the phone headset receiver all you have is 4 wires (red, black, green, white) speaker and the microphone and may be few electronics depending on where volume adjuster is installed so you have a lot of real estate to install electronic air diffuser which can be triggered either by ring tone when you pick the phone or be triggered by voice when you answer the phone...microphone converts sound to electrical signal. Electronic air diffusers is more like electronic air fresheners installed on public bathrooms which are triggered by motion, smell or set on timer........I hope that helps 

Thanks.   Actually my question was not so much about the physics and electronics as it was about the volume of gas ... noting that "gas chambers" used to execute criminals in the USA were (relatively) quite large and had to be filled properly in order to be quickly  effective.   

[vooke]

I understand you are one of those termagant contributor .......do you have any evidence regarding satellite phones. 

I believe all CS and CJ have a secure land line red phone installed in their house only for receiving calls from statehouse. Off course only appointed official is supposed to pick that phone when it rings.

   

The family seems OK with his death if they think heart attack cannot be induced using cyanide placed on the phone headset next to the microphone triggered once you pick the phone good for them. Bare minimum would have been an inquiry

Delivering cyanide via a phone head-set seems tricky enough.   Knowing who in the household will pick up the phone seems even more challenging.

You believe in one too many things. They use satellite phones.

As little as you have for your 'secure landlines'