We cannot fix poverty in Africa without destroying the environment - Pundit

[RV Pundit]

Europe environmental degradation before recovery

[Dear Mami]

In USA even after reclaiming the forests, the ecological damage is irreversible. In my state chemical companies did what you are advocating and pollutted all big rivers. Our largest river is so polluted that they have fisheries guards partolling it to prevent fishing as fish in the river is contaminated. You do not know shit pundit about pollution in the west. Anway you are still a villager so trying to convince you about my lived exprience is not gonna work for you

Dupont had to dump its chemical company as the liabilities from 100 of years of polluting the enviroment almost bankrupted the company. Two years ago they settled a civil lawsuit in ohio for 1.6 billion. They have other cases that they will have to settle for about 2 to 6 billion dollars. The damage in ohio and west virginia is irrevesible. Tell someone who kid was born with no limbs that we need to pollute to be rich.

That's genuinely awful! But I see a difference btw industries/corporations polluting and our current problem of squatters. The two need different solutions. If the problem is squatters, we must ask why they are doing that, then resolve those factors in a serious way. We must also innovate ways to generate SERIOUS mullah from our natural forests that are compatible with conservation. S. African tourism is very seriously done.

[Dear Mami]

Europe destroyed Europe - then went on to destroy America, Asia and Africa - and Oceania. They had population explosion more extreme than Africa.

That tracks. Everything I've read about the origin and evolution of capitalism tells me Capitalism is cancerous. A system that nurtures greed and puts ZERO brakes on it. We must eventually find a different way to live. But now that it was exported everywhere, we can't lock those most screwed from bettering themselves in that system. The shift from capitalism has to be whole-scale/universal/everywhere. But it should start with those who've already developed.

Bezos recently set up a fund for finding environmental solutions. I wonder if such Capitalists wouldn't be open (for PR points) to funding projects like reclamation and repurchasing land back from squatters  for conservation/restoration + resettlement in places like Kwinya? 

I used to wonder why people like the Kenyattas never get satisfied. I thought it was some sort of "rich" curse. After reading about capitalism, I fully understand what's up with them. This thing is all about more, more, more . . . forever! Thats why it went from England, to the rest of Europe, colonies etc. It's now trying to go to space. It's INSATIABLE!

[RV Pundit]

Yes that evil part of capitalism. The great part - no other system has eliminated extreme poverty like capitalism has done. Capitalism encourage and rewards hardwork and innovation. But it need serious gov regulation to ensure for example damage against the environment. That is why we have NEMA and all these enviromental agencies..

The problem in Africa is not really capitalism - informal sector is like 80% - so the problem is poverty.

Once everyone is formal, legal, registered and accountable - it easy to enforce rules,policies and order.

Europe destroyed Europe - then went on to destroy America, Asia and Africa - and Oceania. They had population explosion more extreme than Africa.

That tracks. Everything I've read about the origin and evolution of capitalism tells me Capitalism is cancerous. A system that nurtures greed and puts ZERO brakes on it. We must eventually find a different way to live. But now that it was exported everywhere, we can't lock those most screwed from bettering themselves in that system. The shift from capitalism has to be whole-scale/universal/everywhere. But it should start with those who've already developed.

Bezos recently set up a fund for finding environmental solutions. I wonder if such Capitalists wouldn't be open (for PR points) to funding projects like reclamation and repurchasing land back from squatters  for conservation/restoration + resettlement in places like Kwinya? 

I used to wonder why people like the Kenyattas never get satisfied. I thought it was some sort of "rich" curse. After reading about capitalism, I fully understand what's up with them. This thing is all about more, more, more . . . forever! Thats why it went from England, to the rest of Europe, colonies etc. It's now trying to go to space. It's INSATIABLE!

[Dear Mami]

My view is we have both problems: small/local capitalists/cartels capturing the state and enormous poverty (because the former often act as obstacles to the resolution of the later via state instruments/good policies). However, I have long given up any hope of removing the small capitalists from their capture/position as a solution to the poverty problem. I focus my energies on what else can be done given we are where we are. Are there ideas that can be pursued around or even within our politics and its mess? These things/initiatives are small and already happening and I hope they get big enough to receive the support or at least protection/non-hinderance from the state.

[RV Pundit]

Everyone should do something about it.
Individual - poor - should do something about it -  Get less kids/work hard/avoid alcohol drug abuse - get saved /educate their kids.
Gov - should continue with pro-poor policies - and social investment (in education/health).
Non-Gov - NGOS and donors have their spaces.
Private sector - should see the poor or the bottom as viable investment - if you consider the SCALE - there are few rich men - but  billion poor people - so you're likely to make money if you invest in bottom pyramid.

In Areas of Environment - Find means and ways to commercialize it - people understand one language - MONEY - if it pays to grow trees - they will grow so many trees.

Ultimately this is going to take long time - maybe 50yrs - so be patient. Don't kill yourself.

My view is we have both problems: small/local capitalists/cartels capturing the state and enormous poverty (because the former often act as obstacles to the resolution of the later via state instruments/good policies). However, I have long given up any hope of removing the small capitalists from their capture/position as a solution to the poverty problem. I focus my energies on what else can be done given we are where we are. Are there ideas that can be pursued around or even within our politics and its mess? These things/initiatives are small and already happening and I hope they get big enough to receive the support or at least protection/non-hinderance from the state.

[gout]

Europe barbarians killed each other; that was not enough they killed animals; destroyed the environment; then proceeded to Africa, Asia and America to do worse. They now turn to mwafrika to go easy on trees and elephants which we have co existed with till they pushed us out of our lands. It is not that Finlays, Brookebond, Kakuzi, Delmonte found some special agriclutural farms set aside by they barbarian gods around here.

The destruction of coffee bushes in Kiambu has improved milk production and opened up useless bushes such as Kitengela.

The romantic view of coming to see maasais jumping with herds of cows only producing a cup of milk is madness. While even the beadsa nd shukas are from China as they don't want county government to give land to investors/ chinese who can set up say tanneries.

The recent chinese sweatshops model also shows you have to bulldoze out of this romantic climate change nonsense when you are dirty poor.

[RV Pundit]

100% endorsed your views. Nyar from Kisumo should read this again and again.

Europe barbarians killed each other; that was not enough they killed animals; destroyed the environment; then proceeded to Africa, Asia and America to do worse. They now turn to mwafrika to go easy on trees and elephants which we have co existed with till they pushed us out of our lands. It is not that Finlays, Brookebond, Kakuzi, Delmonte found some special agriclutural farms set aside by they barbarian gods around here.

The destruction of coffee bushes in Kiambu has improved milk production and opened up useless bushes such as Kitengela.

The romantic view of coming to see maasais jumping with herds of cows only producing a cup of milk is madness. While even the beadsa nd shukas are from China as they don't want county government to give land to investors/ chinese who can set up say tanneries.

The recent chinese sweatshops model also shows you have to bulldoze out of this romantic climate change nonsense when you are dirty poor.

[Dear Mami]

Why can't we help our people do this all over the semi-arid areas we have? These be Kenyans. And young.

[RV Pundit]

It not cheap - for average kenyan - such water system will cost 1M shs plus. Therefore the Maasai down there cannot afford it. That is why gov has to do MEGA dams - and give everyone cheap water.

Why can't we help our people do this all over the semi-arid areas we have? These be Kenyans. And young.

[KenyanPlato]

Big deal. Nairobi river is polluted as hell. Get off your high horse and comeback to Githunguri where your own mother is cooking with firewood.

In USA even after reclaiming the forests, the ecological damage is irreversible. In my state chemical companies did what you are advocating and pollutted all big rivers. Our big largest live is so polluted that they have fisheries guards partoling it to prevent fishing as fish in the river is contamknated. You do not know shit pundit about pollution in the west. Anway you are still a villager so trying to convince you about my lived exprience is not gonna work for you

You want to,export nairobi pollution to kericho. You such a character. You never think before you post. If kenya cannot figure out latrines you thin they will figure out landslides. No wonder kipisigis are wandering in rv like zombies. There is already milllion acres of land that no one is farming.