India meet the naija pimp and her kenyan brothel. The curry man is payiny

[KenyanPlato]

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Strelize all fertile poor women in kenya. This business of having kids ovyo ovyo leads to no good but misery.

The roti man is thirsty of that kenyan nyap

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Strelize all fertile poor women in kenya. This business of having kids ovyo ovyo leads to no good but misery.

The roti man is thirsty of that kenyan nyap

Bwana KP, you get it! You mentioned in the Zimbabwe thread too. I strongly support population control measures. The onus shouldn't just fall on women, vasectomy is extremely effective and simple procedure. The greatest act of kindness is availing free sterilization to the poor. Feeding and providing for 5 million people is easier than providing for 55 million. We add like a million new people every year to this country. That is insane and wildly unsustainable. Talking of misery, we ain't seen nothing yet, Africa will be the epicenter of Malthusian horror story the likes of which the world has never seen if the population explosion taking place is not contained. It will make the suffering of the trans Atlantic slave trade look like a cake walk. 

Antibiotics, Haber process, green revolution paradoxically have been extremely harmful, they tipped the natural scales. Before there was lots of mortality which canceled out the high birth rates.


 

[RV Pundit]

Brave woman. Africa gov should provide more opportunities for it's people. People should also do their part including having fewer kids.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Strelize all fertile poor women in kenya. This business of having kids ovyo ovyo leads to no good but misery.

The roti man is thirsty of that kenyan nyap

Bwana KP, you get it! You mentioned in the Zimbabwe thread too. I strongly support population control measures. The onus shouldn't just fall on women, vasectomy is extremely effective and simple procedure. The greatest act of kindness is availing free sterilization to the poor. Feeding and providing for 5 million people is easier than providing for 55 million. We add like a million new people every year to this country. That is insane and wildly unsustainable. Talking of misery, we ain't seen nothing yet, Africa will be the epicenter of Malthusian horror story the likes of which the world has never seen if the population explosion taking place is not contained. It will make the suffering of the trans Atlantic slave trade look like a cake walk. 

Antibiotics, Haber process, green revolution paradoxically have been extremely harmful, they tipped the natural scales. Before there was lots of mortality which canceled out the high birth rates.


 

This seems to be your diagnosis of everything that is wrong.  Hitler tried population control of undesirables.  How did that go? 

The real question is what to do about those already here.  They are already here and sterilization does not address their problem.

There are places with ten people per square mile that are hell holes even as high density areas thrive.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

This seems to be your diagnosis of everything that is wrong.  Hitler tried population control of undesirables.  How did that go? 

The real question is what to do about those already here.  They are already here and sterilization does not address their problem.

There are places with ten people per square mile that are hell holes even as high density areas thrive.

Hyperbole.

Hitler was engaged in eugenics, totally different topic.

You obviously haven't heard of carrying capacity.

This is my area of expertise, that is why I'm passionate about it. My alarmist tone stems from knowledge of the facts.

Anyone who is not alarmed by the rate of population growth in Sub Saharan Africa is deeply unserious or asleep.

It is the moral issue of our time.

If you care about human welfare and the environment run away population growth should worry you greatly.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

This seems to be your diagnosis of everything that is wrong.  Hitler tried population control of undesirables.  How did that go? 

The real question is what to do about those already here.  They are already here and sterilization does not address their problem.

There are places with ten people per square mile that are hell holes even as high density areas thrive.

Hyperbole.

Hitler was engaged in eugenics, totally different topic.

You obviously haven't heard of carrying capacity.

This is my area of expertise, that is why I'm passionate about it. My alarmist tone stems from knowledge of the facts.

Anyone who is not alarmed by the rate of population growth in Sub Saharan Africa is deeply unserious or asleep.

It is the moral issue of our time.

If you care about human welfare and the environment run away population growth should worry you greatly.

Eugenics only differs superficially.  Without splitting hairs, the point is, you are deciding who should and shouldn't get to have descendants.  Grace already has kids(or at least one, from what I can see).  Malthusian theories are nice and dandy, but they are not going to feed her kids(who are already here).

That aside, I love David Attenborough's voice.  An all time favorite.  He and Morgan Freeman are unmatched.  Very powerful, even if totally misguided in this case IMO.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Eugenics only differs superficially.  Without splitting hairs, the point is, you are deciding who should and shouldn't get to have descendants.  Grace already has kids(or at least one, from what I can see). Malthusian theories are nice and dandy, but they are not going to feed her kids(who are already here).

That aside, I love David Attenborough's voice.  An all time favorite.  He and Morgan Freeman are unmatched.  Very powerful, even if totally misguided in this case IMO.

Nope. We are are not talking about coerced sterilizations of the Reich here, most of the poor with proper counsel and access to contraceptive services would have chosen to either not have kids or 1 or 2 kids.

...Malthusian theories are nice and dandy, but they are not going to feed her kids(who are already here).


What? Why do we make policies then? To address something that already happened, right? We don't just shrug and get on with it. If abolitionists had that mindset, slavery might be with us today. Grace has the potential to have many more kids, voluntary sterilization would prevent more kids being born into hellish existence.

...That aside, I love David Attenborough's voice.  An all time favorite.  He and Morgan Freeman are unmatched.  Very powerful, even if totally misguided in this case IMO.

The sheer gall! Africans are very stubborn to facts

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Eugenics only differs superficially.  Without splitting hairs, the point is, you are deciding who should and shouldn't get to have descendants.  Grace already has kids(or at least one, from what I can see). Malthusian theories are nice and dandy, but they are not going to feed her kids(who are already here).

That aside, I love David Attenborough's voice.  An all time favorite.  He and Morgan Freeman are unmatched.  Very powerful, even if totally misguided in this case IMO.

Nope. We are are not talking about coerced sterilizations of the Reich here, most of the poor with proper counsel and access to contraceptive services would have chosen to either not have kids or 1 or 2 kids.

I know this might be difficult for you to grok, but some people literally want children, no matter what.  So the notion that you know what she would have chosen is just projection.  But I concede you are not pushing eugenics.

...Malthusian theories are nice and dandy, but they are not going to feed her kids(who are already here).


What? Why do we make policies then? To address something that already happened, right? We don't just shrug and get on with it. If abolitionists had that mindset, slavery might be with us today. Grace has the potential to have many more kids, voluntary sterilization would prevent more kids being born into hellish existence.

...That aside, I love David Attenborough's voice.  An all time favorite.  He and Morgan Freeman are unmatched.  Very powerful, even if totally misguided in this case IMO.

The sheer gall! Africans are very stubborn to facts

I am not so much against policies as being against a one size fits all kind of thing.  You have a hammer and suddenly you want hammer away at every problem like a nail.  I am sure you can winkle a case for population control in this instance, but I think there are better reasons for Grace's situation.  She has left a lower population region to go India after all.

You are on record for saying that life is a mistake for what it's worth.  So I am hesitant to buy into some of your ideas, even though they may sound plausible, because I detect a tautological underpinning at best and nihilism at worst.  But you make interesting points.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

I know this might be difficult for you to grok, but some people literally want children, no matter what.  So the notion that you know what she would have chosen is just projection. But I concede you are not pushing eugenics.

Social conditioning, pronatal cultural values, religious indoctrination, looking at children as old age pension and security asset, and other retrogressive reasons are to blame. In the enlightened parts of the world, fertility is dropping rapidly, educated and urbane  want to self actualize not spend away their life in a biological ponzi scheme.

I am not so much against policies as being against a one size fits all kind of thing.  You have a hammer and suddenly you want hammer away at every problem like a nail.  I am sure you can winkle a case for population control in this instance, but I think there are better reasons for Grace's situation.  She has left a lower population region to go India after all.

You still don't get it. Bwana Bitmask it is not that complicated, read this story about a poor mother of 8 in Mau, who regrets not using contraceptives, her story is typical:

Lily Sigilai arrives home with a pile of firewood on her back.She drops it on the ground with a thud and sighs heavily from the exhaustion of hauling it this far. A smile plays on her mouth, which has started showing early wrinkles, as her delighted children rush to embrace her. The youngest one, who is months old, is visibly hungry and proceeds to breastfeed. The rest congregate around her in anticipation of a meal which, sadly, she has to head off to find as soon as the baby is fed. Sigilai lives in Olmekenyu in Narok South. She is only 34, but her haggard look shows a woman whose youth is long past her. Poor, homeless, illiterate and shouldering the burden of feeding eight children, two of whom have special needs, life couldn't have dealt her a worse card. That she is married doesn't make much difference. She says it was not her wish to have eight children, especially considering that she and her husband can barely feed and clothe them, but because of cultural dictates she ended up with eight girls "trying to get at least one boy".

https://allafrica.com/stories/202003300140.html

^^ I urge you to read the rest, that story plays out in village after village in Sub Saharan, unremitting suffering and hopelessness largely due to unplanned families and fertility rates that strain meager incomes. This is not frivolous BBI Ruto political games, it is life and death.

You are on record for saying that life is a mistake for what it's worth.  So I am hesitant to buy into some of your ideas, even though they may sound plausible, because I detect a tautological underpinning at best and nihilism at worst.  But you make interesting points.

I'm an anti natalist, that doesn't diminish an iota the validity of my population control views. Compassion moves me not nihilism, I hate to see needless suffering. 

[RV Pundit]

Population planning is good but not an end in itself.You stop having kids and soon you have ageing problem.Optimum number of people in earth will be determined by nature.
Empower people to make rational decision by educating them...so they can make sound decisions including number of kids and when to have them.Nobody should impose their ideas especially on really personal decisions like how many kids to have...the universe is infinite

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Population planning is good but not an end in itself.You stop having kids and soon you have ageing problem.Optimum number of people in earth will be determined by nature.
Empower people to make rational decision by educating them...so they can make sound decisions including number of kids and when to have them.Nobody should impose their ideas especially on really personal decisions like how many kids to have...the universe is infinite

Get down from the ivory tower my fren. There is nothing infinite on earth, land, resources, water, grasslands, arable land, fisheries, etc, every resource is finite. The universe is useless as far as we are concerned because we will never be able to settle and exploit any other planet, no oxygen, inhospitable etc. We have but just this planet, only those parts your tiny ethnic group calls home.

We decide optimum number of people, we are not animals at the mercy of nature, we control our destiny, we have the know how to voluntary control our numbers if we act rationally and not like baboons in breeding frenzy.

[RV Pundit]

Scarcity mentality. Humans are capable of using technology to produce more food, they can build skyscrapers to fix housing issues, they can irrigate the huge part of the world that is now deserts; we are yet to even explore 10% of the earth.

In the future even food will not be produced in farms - but in labs or industries - in very few hours. Maybe we will have machines that you can press - food - and it's grows it - and cooks it for you.

Please understand human brain and it's infinite capacity to innovate and think.

Get down from the ivory tower my fren. There is nothing infinite on earth, land, resources, water, grasslands, arable land, fisheries, etc, every resource is finite. The universe is useless as far as we are concerned because we will never be able to settle and exploit any other planet, no oxygen, inhospitable etc. We have but just this planet, only those parts your tiny ethnic group calls home.

We decide optimum number of people, we are not animals at the mercy of nature, we control our destiny, we have the know how to voluntary control our numbers if we act rationally and not like baboons in breeding frenzy.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Scarcity mentality.

Unless you are a politician in a banana republic like our chieftain Bill Ruto, scarcity will always be with you. In fact, the whole discipline of economics revolves around studying scarcity.

Humans are capable of using technology to produce more food, they can build skyscrapers to fix housing issues, they can irrigate the huge part of the world that is now deserts; we are yet to even explore 10% of the earth.

In the future even food will not be produced in farms - but in labs or industries - in very few hours. Maybe we will have machines that you can press - food - and it's grows it - and cooks it for you.

Please understand human brain and it's infinite capacity to innovate and think.

 

Grow up, science fiction is not real.