Author Topic: Kiunjuri v Uhuru  (Read 10054 times)

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2020, 12:39:26 AM »
Pundit it funny how Uhurutopia is not over until it's over despite all the signs. I could regurgitate all the events but no need. But "the ground is hostile" on what evidence? Show us at least a video of raia being vetted. Such a thing would be all over YouTube like that Moses Kuria manhandled in Kitui meme. The only evidence we have is Ruto MPs being forcefully ejected from Uhuru meetings. Apparently he is so unpopular they are dying for photo ops with him. You are arguing just for sakes to concede nothing.

Ruto cannot dare a direct confrontation with Uhuru for an obvious reason : he would alienate Mt Kenya. Otherwise ALL REDLINES HAVE BEEN CROSSED. He is not consulted, his crew been fired or demoted, his minions been hammered or impeached, he himself been locked out of official meetings and his official house in Mombasa. Is there a new redline I missed?

Your spin is overboard now. You don't make sense. There is no "ground following" for Ruto in Mt Kenya. The governors and most senators have abandoned him. Nay even most MCAs. Only mlolongo MPs are with Tangatanga. Rigged in folks don't represent the ground. Not even Kiunjuri can dare attack Uhuru directly instead Raila caused the rain. No rat can bell the cat.
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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2020, 10:03:23 AM »
Talk is Cheap. Like BBI - that you parrot - and yet it has nothing on the parliamentary system or executive PM. What I follow is major events  - like BBI - Uhuru showed his hands there - otherwise as for drama - that is just drama. Uhuru has a problem with mt kenya because  he lost the ground game.

Folks say Uhuru and Ruto have parted ways - then they meet for hours - Ruto men are still in gov - right or wrong - and Raila men are out of gov - right or wrong - BBI is pro-Ruto - right or wrong. So again whose reality is inverted.

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1223521622432387072&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytrends.co.ke%2Fjournalists-members-of-the-public-chased-out-of-uhurus-function-in-kirinyaga%2F
Pundit it funny how Uhurutopia is not over until it's over despite all the signs. I could regurgitate all the events but no need. But "the ground is hostile" on what evidence? Show us at least a video of raia being vetted. Such a thing would be all over YouTube like that Moses Kuria manhandled in Kitui meme. The only evidence we have is Ruto MPs being forcefully ejected from Uhuru meetings. Apparently he is so unpopular they are dying for photo ops with him. You are arguing just for sakes to concede nothing.

Ruto cannot dare a direct confrontation with Uhuru for an obvious reason : he would alienate Mt Kenya. Otherwise ALL REDLINES HAVE BEEN CROSSED. He is not consulted, his crew been fired or demoted, his minions been hammered or impeached, he himself been locked out of official meetings and his official house in Mombasa. Is there a new redline I missed?

Your spin is overboard now. You don't make sense. There is no "ground following" for Ruto in Mt Kenya. The governors and most senators have abandoned him. Nay even most MCAs. Only mlolongo MPs are with Tangatanga. Rigged in folks don't represent the ground. Not even Kiunjuri can dare attack Uhuru directly instead Raila caused the rain. No rat can bell the cat.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2020, 01:24:10 PM »
So this is the new redline - all Ruto men must be fired? And BBI revised. It doesn't matter if he is kicked out of his official house? Am sure Ruto could be relieved of his official motorcade and you would spin it as some plot to play Raila.

All semblance of Uhuruto partnership has long been breached. Now Uhuru is calling him a hyena and saying he is not his principal assitant. Your spin is that Ruto will grace baby showers. :)

Talk is Cheap. Like BBI - that you parrot - and yet it has nothing on the parliamentary system or executive PM. What I follow is major events  - like BBI - Uhuru showed his hands there - otherwise as for drama - that is just drama. Uhuru has a problem with mt kenya because  he lost the ground game.

Folks say Uhuru and Ruto have parted ways - then they meet for hours - Ruto men are still in gov - right or wrong - and Raila men are out of gov - right or wrong - BBI is pro-Ruto - right or wrong. So again whose reality is inverted.

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1223521622432387072&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailytrends.co.ke%2Fjournalists-members-of-the-public-chased-out-of-uhurus-function-in-kirinyaga%2F
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2020, 01:25:32 PM »
Ruto atanyang'anywa bibi and we will be assured Uhurutopia is still intact.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2020, 07:06:28 PM »
Time will tell.
So this is the new redline - all Ruto men must be fired? And BBI revised. It doesn't matter if he is kicked out of his official house? Am sure Ruto could be relieved of his official motorcade and you would spin it as some plot to play Raila.

All semblance of Uhuruto partnership has long been breached. Now Uhuru is calling him a hyena and saying he is not his principal assitant. Your spin is that Ruto will grace baby showers. :)

Offline Garliv

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2020, 03:24:37 PM »
Robina,
Has it occurred to you that all these madharau and belittling Ruto is actually endearing him to voters? The real people whose support matters? The ones who will troop to polling Stations from 4am to 6pm or even at night?
Let me get philosophical and spiritual and point out that to be a leader you must also be ready to be led. Must also be ready to follow and obey. Even the Holy Bible has such lessons (read King David story). That is what (in my opinion) denied Raila State House after Kibaki. And thereafter too. He was not ready to be led or to follow. He always wanted to be exalted and to recognized and eventually people got fed up with him. That's why it was really easy and obvious for Mt. Kenya residents to abandon him and yet they had labelled him Jamba (the Brave One) for his role in end of Moi's Kanu.

Ruto is playing it opposite. Being a "mjinga" and letting his Boss take credit even when he can justifiably chest thump. That aspect alone makes people like him more. Those who want to "cheat him" have a hard time explaining to the masses WHY.  They see "a nice hardworking person mwenye hajasumbua (He's been loyal)" so even when political propaganda claim Ruto been abusing the President they aren't convincing and no one believes it.

So your celebration of Nyahunyo is one nail into BBI coffin.


Ruto atanyang'anywa bibi and we will be assured Uhurutopia is still intact.

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2020, 04:43:26 PM »
Robina,
Has it occurred to you that all these madharau and belittling Ruto is actually endearing him to voters? The real people whose support matters? The ones who will troop to polling Stations from 4am to 6pm or even at night?
Let me get philosophical and spiritual and point out that to be a leader you must also be ready to be led. Must also be ready to follow and obey. Even the Holy Bible has such lessons (read King David story). That is what (in my opinion) denied Raila State House after Kibaki. And thereafter too. He was not ready to be led or to follow. He always wanted to be exalted and to recognized and eventually people got fed up with him. That's why it was really easy and obvious for Mt. Kenya residents to abandon him and yet they had labelled him Jamba (the Brave One) for his role in end of Moi's Kanu.

Ruto is playing it opposite. Being a "mjinga" and letting his Boss take credit even when he can justifiably chest thump. That aspect alone makes people like him more. Those who want to "cheat him" have a hard time explaining to the masses WHY.  They see "a nice hardworking person mwenye hajasumbua (He's been loyal)" so even when political propaganda claim Ruto been abusing the President they aren't convincing and no one believes it.

So your celebration of Nyahunyo is one nail into BBI coffin.


Ruto atanyang'anywa bibi and we will be assured Uhurutopia is still intact.

But it's not endearing him to IEBC.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2020, 02:22:58 AM »
Garliv, am afraid being humble or turning the other cheek is not enough to win power in Zamunda. Such "principles" along with integrity, etc amount to nothing. The tribe is factor numero uno that determines the winner. This is why it is laughable that Mt Kenya would pick Ruto over Uhuru. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
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Offline Garliv

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2020, 02:30:27 PM »
History shows Moi and Kibaki became presidents by being humble. And being underrated. Uhuru case is that of a reluctant youngster being pushed to assume Presidency. Sometimes things are deeper than they seem.
But now that he (Uhuru) himself is scheming to be Executive PM he gets no support. At best mixed support and rejection being the bigger share.
Jomo Kenyatta/Jaramogi were defined by colonialism: that is different circumstances.

Seriously though, TRIBE is a factor especially among the 5 big tribes. And when tribe rejects one of their own then he doesn't go far. Uhuru is not going far.
And yes, whilst it's taken as guarantee that Mt. Kenya always support their own, no one has tried to seriously play alternative game. Ruto is playing that game. And I tell majority are asking "why should we abandon Ruto?" Uhuru and his henchmen have even turned to pure, open intimidation but it isn't working. When did that ever happen in Mt. Kenya that one of their own has had to use force/intimidation?



Garliv, am afraid being humble or turning the other cheek is not enough to win power in Zamunda. Such "principles" along with integrity, etc amount to nothing. The tribe is factor numero uno that determines the winner. This is why it is laughable that Mt Kenya would pick Ruto over Uhuru. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2020, 03:44:31 PM »
To understand Ruto's following you have to consider the mlolongo cheating. Look up the video of Waititu explaining his support for Ruto. The MPs praising him are not legit. There is no miracle Ruto has performed so he can be a Mt Kenya prince. That is impossible unless he can convert to a Kikuyu ala Islam. If Uhuru was going home it would be possible to beat Raila but Uhuru 2.0 ni ngumu sana. Gema will vote Uhuru and even if Ruto stepped aside for Kiunjuri they would be routed by Raila in non-Gema. Ruto has not managed to supplant Raila in non-Gema so plus machinery people see Uhuru as the clear winning horse.

Kiunjuri is as stupid as Waititu. He should be pushing Uhuru 2.0 and positioning himself as the heir. Uhuru did this with Kibaki - path of least resistance. His strategy now is anti-gravity because Uhuru will finish him off by the time he is done.

History shows Moi and Kibaki became presidents by being humble. And being underrated. Uhuru case is that of a reluctant youngster being pushed to assume Presidency. Sometimes things are deeper than they seem.
But now that he (Uhuru) himself is scheming to be Executive PM he gets no support. At best mixed support and rejection being the bigger share.
Jomo Kenyatta/Jaramogi were defined by colonialism: that is different circumstances.

Seriously though, TRIBE is a factor especially among the 5 big tribes. And when tribe rejects one of their own then he doesn't go far. Uhuru is not going far.
And yes, whilst it's taken as guarantee that Mt. Kenya always support their own, no one has tried to seriously play alternative game. Ruto is playing that game. And I tell majority are asking "why should we abandon Ruto?" Uhuru and his henchmen have even turned to pure, open intimidation but it isn't working. When did that ever happen in Mt. Kenya that one of their own has had to use force/intimidation?
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2020, 04:10:38 PM »
This... listen towards the end

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Offline Garliv

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2020, 05:15:15 PM »
I have listened. It doesn't support your contention at all. He says or rather implies that he had to support Ruto because he is the one who helped him when he had been rigged. Does that support your mlolongo narrative?
Second, Waititu made that speech when he had been ordered not to get into his Governor office. He also said Jubilee iko pamoja coz Uhuru and Ruto are all in jubilee and no one is leaving. In short a typical political speech for all to be pleased or annoyed by it.

Finally, Uhuru is not going for any seat. He rather expect his coalition with Raila will win MOST PARLIAMENTARY SEATS so that he can be Executive PM. As time goes on, am almost concurring with Pundit that it's a pipe dream. It won't happen. No one supports Uhuru claim to be Executive PM. He will be putting himself at the mercy of Raila. He will not win in Mt. Kenya. He simply won't! Even diehards Uhuru disciples don't understand this Executive PM thing and how Uhuru will win it..

Therefore it's not a question of Ruto vs Uhuru. Mt. Kenya have mentally and psychologically moved on to the next leader or search for one. They have reconciled that this time they cannot present anyone for President but they can provide Ruto with a Deputy. All the rest "ni Raila na zile tricks zake..." (quote from BodaBoda rider).. In short, it's Ruto's time.



This... listen towards the end


Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2020, 06:15:29 PM »
That is politic for mlolongo ... "Ruto helped me win". Unless you are incapable or unwilling to read between the lines. The fact he felt beholden to Ruto enough to hang for it. There are ample other off-the-cuff remarks by Nyanja et al about mlolongo. That leaked Tuju tape of "Ruto aliweka watu yake". When someone expects privacy and spouts things there is good reason to believe them.

Where do you get the factual narrative of what Gema want? A bodaboda rider :) There are enough Gema who have not forgotten Kiambaa and you cannot rely on an individual's opinion to pass judgement. All those Gema leaders who have been peeling off the Ruto bandwagon - governors, senators, MPs, MCAs - are indicative of the wider trend as Uhuru intentions become clear. Ruto's appeal was pegged on next-in-line.  See now how non-Gema are realigning. Where have you seen him raiding Raila turf recently? Raila is raiding him. Around April 2018 Ruto had Kingi and a sizeable Coast following. Where are they now?

We have a reliable history of "Njamba" getting dumped. 2012 we heard the same thing about Kenya cannot stomach another Gema presidency then what happened? Ruto showed up with "inasemekana ati nyinyi hamwezi pigia mtu mwingine kura." Pundit warned noone else would trust Gema if they betrayed Ruto. But we have Raila and non-Gema lining up for a fresh deal. Only the present interests matter.

I have listened. It doesn't support your contention at all. He says or rather implies that he had to support Ruto because he is the one who helped him when he had been rigged. Does that support your mlolongo narrative?
Second, Waititu made that speech when he had been ordered not to get into his Governor office. He also said Jubilee iko pamoja coz Uhuru and Ruto are all in jubilee and no one is leaving. In short a typical political speech for all to be pleased or annoyed by it.

Finally, Uhuru is not going for any seat. He rather expect his coalition with Raila will win MOST PARLIAMENTARY SEATS so that he can be Executive PM. As time goes on, am almost concurring with Pundit that it's a pipe dream. It won't happen. No one supports Uhuru claim to be Executive PM. He will be putting himself at the mercy of Raila. He will not win in Mt. Kenya. He simply won't! Even diehards Uhuru disciples don't understand this Executive PM thing and how Uhuru will win it..

Therefore it's not a question of Ruto vs Uhuru. Mt. Kenya have mentally and psychologically moved on to the next leader or search for one. They have reconciled that this time they cannot present anyone for President but they can provide Ruto with a Deputy. All the rest "ni Raila na zile tricks zake..." (quote from BodaBoda rider).. In short, it's Ruto's time.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2020, 06:18:23 PM »
Ps - it is not just the Kikuyu who are dumping Ruto - he has been haemorrhaging support countrywide. NFD, Coast, Western, name it. Likes of ole Lenku dumped him for Handshake.
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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2020, 07:41:23 PM »
Dumping part is easy. Supporting Raila is the hard part. That is why we voted UhuRuto despite ICC. I have told you for many years now as LONG AS RUTO MAIN OPPONENT IS JADOUNG RAILA - RUTO IS SLEEPWALKING MOONWALKING JAYWALKING TO STATEHOUSE.The fear and mistrust of Raila FAR SUPERSEDE RUTO. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
Ps - it is not just the Kikuyu who are dumping Ruto - he has been haemorrhaging support countrywide. NFD, Coast, Western, name it. Likes of ole Lenku dumped him for Handshake.

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2020, 08:03:56 PM »
Non-Gema have voted Raila before so your narrative doesn't wash. NFD, Matusa and Gusii voted him 2007. Mijikenda and Luhya have stuck wifh him since 2007.

Gema and some Lenkus are dumping Ruto but remaining with Uhuru. It is Raila vs Ruto in non-Gema and Uhuru vs Ruto in Gema. Raila remain the non-Gema king.

Dumping part is easy. Supporting Raila is the hard part. That is why we voted UhuRuto despite ICC. I have told you for many years now as LONG AS RUTO MAIN OPPONENT IS JADOUNG RAILA - RUTO IS SLEEPWALKING MOONWALKING JAYWALKING TO STATEHOUSE.The fear and mistrust of Raila FAR SUPERSEDE RUTO. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2020, 09:42:03 PM »
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Offline Garliv

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2020, 11:21:31 PM »
1. I am on the ground. And more and more frequent I get invite to explain to some meeting what's this BBI is all about and why there is hullabaloo yet "no one is opposing it..." So i pretty much have the feel on the ground. And yes, such a boda boda rider can actually represent a more accurate picture of "how the ground is..." than some lawyer or pseudo intellectual sitting at Java over third rate coffee. Have you actually ever campaigned or ever been involved in political mobilisation? If you ever do, then you'd realise the illiterate looking villager may represent true feelings..

2. Njamba was easy to dump. Indeed honeymoon for Njamba didn't even last 2yrs. And all that acrimonious relationship with Kibaki still haunts Raila support in Mt. Kenya. That is a fact. Therefore when Uhuru brings Raila as new found political bride, there is simply dread. Believe it or not.

3. I have intimate knowledge of 2012/2013 attempt to have MaDVD as presidential candidate. In brief, Kibaki and his thinkers led by Wanjui and others thought another Kikuyu should not succeed Kibaki. And they also wanted to shape political leadership in their own image. Fyi, Jezebel was also then at the centre. So they approach MaDVD and he agreed under proviso that he would be able to bring in Luhya Nation with him. They formed UDF. I was recruited as a member. And they started mobilisation, meetings and getting influencers to market UDF and MaDVD. To cut long story short, as they were doing that they also engaged private pollsters like Synovate and also compared with NIS research on whether MaDVD can actually deliver Luhya Nation. At his peak, MaDVD had about 24% support. Then Raila and his political machine in Luhya land started dismissing MaDVD as a sellout to Kikuyu or insults like Kikuyu biiitch. His support plummeted to around 8%. By then the country was nearing election time. So some group split from Kibaki and his intellectuals and argued that "we" are going "to fall" (be defeated at the poll) to Raila by supporting MaDVD who has no home backing. They reasoned it was better to "have your own whether you win or lose". And from then on more people abandoned MaDVD and UDF. They hatched a plan to first get Uhuru to run whether he wanted or not. I have first hand knowledge so i can tell you much more including when Uhuru made his "mademoni speech". He agreed and then search for alliance begun. First was Kalonzo who was considered but he made some demands which did not correspond with his numbers. His Ukambani base was considered good but didn't have "the punch that was needed to beat 50% mark". Thereafter a deal was made with Ruto and the rest is history.
My point, things are more than they seem! So it was not a question of dismissing Raila or MaDVD just because they are not Kikuyus.

Finally, yes should Mt. Kenya abandon Ruto without justifiable reason then there would not any reason for anyone else to ever form an alliance with Mt. Kenya. Absolutely none. And you better believe it, even that bodaboda or mama soko will tell you something like this.. "Kama hatukua na Ruto 2017 hii inchi ingekua baya..." They refer to election, then annulment of that election then another election and Kenya didn't descend into chaos. Yes, NASA protested but it could have been worse.
Therefore for Uhuru's Alliance with Raila to be solid and acceptable, people must be told why they have "to abandon Ruto and embrace Raila.." That is something each time Uhuru is asked he gets angry.



That is politic for mlolongo ... "Ruto helped me win". Unless you are incapable or unwilling to read between the lines. The fact he felt beholden to Ruto enough to hang for it. There are ample other off-the-cuff remarks by Nyanja et al about mlolongo. That leaked Tuju tape of "Ruto aliweka watu yake". When someone expects privacy and spouts things there is good reason to believe them.

Where do you get the factual narrative of what Gema want? A bodaboda rider :) There are enough Gema who have not forgotten Kiambaa and you cannot rely on an individual's opinion to pass judgement. All those Gema leaders who have been peeling off the Ruto bandwagon - governors, senators, MPs, MCAs - are indicative of the wider trend as Uhuru intentions become clear. Ruto's appeal was pegged on next-in-line.  See now how non-Gema are realigning. Where have you seen him raiding Raila turf recently? Raila is raiding him. Around April 2018 Ruto had Kingi and a sizeable Coast following. Where are they now?

We have a reliable history of "Njamba" getting dumped. 2012 we heard the same thing about Kenya cannot stomach another Gema presidency then what happened? Ruto showed up with "inasemekana ati nyinyi hamwezi pigia mtu mwingine kura." Pundit warned noone else would trust Gema if they betrayed Ruto. But we have Raila and non-Gema lining up for a fresh deal. Only the present interests matter.

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2020, 07:16:27 AM »
Uhury sells BBI in DC

which version of the BBI..the one we have or the one we will have.

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Re: Kiunjuri v Uhuru
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2020, 08:13:29 AM »
Uhury sells BBI in DC

which version of the BBI..the one we have or the one we will have.

Parliamentary. Uhuru's intentions are rather clear.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels