Zimbabwe will appreciate Mugabe for claiming land from white settler

[RVtitem]

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Mugabe was a brave wise man, no doubt about it. Meriad sunctions only let his regime suffer on last years.

If Zimbabwe manage to be stable, then it will surpass south Africa with their fake African prosperity. He layed a proper Foundation for the future.

I Disagree

[Kadudu]

Just like Kenya, the former white owned land is now in the hands of black settlers who have no idea about farming. The irony is that Mugabe's daughter threw out the veterans who had taken over a white farm. It is now hers and the veterans who did the dirty job are landless.

[Nefertiti]

SA should absolutely not borrow Mugabe's failed script. They should use progressive empowerment of the blacks, not Mugabe's madness. Otherwise their economy will spin to basket case which is already happening. They really need the wisdom to balance majority black rights and the economic benefit of the white minority. Like Zim, they can't have their cake and eat it too.

[Kadudu]

Mugabe chose that route just to save his dwindling presidency way back in 2000. That was after being 20 years in power and he had no new ideas for Zimbabwe. SA can hardly go that way since even a dunderhead like Zuma is confined to two terms. Zuma would had been the perfect Mugabe for SA had he the unlimited stay as president.

SA should absolutely not borrow Mugabe's failed script. They should use progressive empowerment of the blacks, not Mugabe's madness. Otherwise their economy will spin to basket case which is already happening. They really need the wisdom to balance majority black rights and the economic benefit of the white minority. Like Zim, they can't have their cake and eat it too.

[RV Pundit]

Land distribution is required.But not forceful seizures.SA has to do this.

[Nefertiti]

How do you see that working out? Will the redistributed farms remain as productive? By the way it's not just the land but the entire economy is white dominated. Say in the mining industry they have been giving workers shares as a benefit based on years as service - but this form of empowerment has folks quite impatient. How for example do you redustribute huge banks owned by white people? Do you seize them? Charge them more taxes? How do you avoid the investor exodus? Affirmative action is a tough nut when the marginalized group is the supermajority. SA may just have to suck it up and accept the rich whites as "investors".

Land distribution is required.But not forceful seizures.SA has to do this.

[Georgesoros]

Just like Kenya, the former white owned land is now in the hands of black settlers who have no idea about farming. The irony is that Mugabe's daughter threw out the veterans who had taken over a white farm. It is now hers and the veterans who did the dirty job are landless.

I disagree

[RV Pundit]

Kenya smallhilder farming is proof enough that it can work

How do you see that working out? Will the redistributed farms remain as productive? By the way it's not just the land but the entire economy is white dominated. Say in the mining industry they have been giving workers shares as a benefit based on years as service - but this form of empowerment has folks quite impatient. How for example do you redustribute huge banks owned by white people? Do you seize them? Charge them more taxes? How do you avoid the investor exodus? Affirmative action is a tough nut when the marginalized group is the supermajority. SA may just have to suck it up and accept the rich whites as "investors".

Land distribution is required.But not forceful seizures.SA has to do this.

[Nefertiti]

They are self-made farmers. They have beat the odds over the years to emerge top. The trouble with redistribution is lack of merit. You just distribute stuff to the hoi polloi and hope a few serious ones sustain it. The odds are stuck! The reality is that anyone suffering because their great grandpa lost land to kaburu is not enterprising. It's a much safer bet to let the proven owners run them and find other reparations.

Kenya smallhilder farming is proof enough that it can work

How do you see that working out? Will the redistributed farms remain as productive? By the way it's not just the land but the entire economy is white dominated. Say in the mining industry they have been giving workers shares as a benefit based on years as service - but this form of empowerment has folks quite impatient. How for example do you redustribute huge banks owned by white people? Do you seize them? Charge them more taxes? How do you avoid the investor exodus? Affirmative action is a tough nut when the marginalized group is the supermajority. SA may just have to suck it up and accept the rich whites as "investors".

Land distribution is required.But not forceful seizures.SA has to do this.

[Georgesoros]

They are self-made farmers. They have beat the odds over the years to emerge top. The trouble with redistribution is lack of merit. You just distribute stuff to the hoi polloi and hope a few serious ones sustain it. The odds are stuck! The reality is that anyone suffering because their great grandpa lost land to kaburu is not enterprising. It's a much safer bet to let the proven owners run them and find other reparations.

Kenya smallhilder farming is proof enough that it can work

How do you see that working out? Will the redistributed farms remain as productive? By the way it's not just the land but the entire economy is white dominated. Say in the mining industry they have been giving workers shares as a benefit based on years as service - but this form of empowerment has folks quite impatient. How for example do you redustribute huge banks owned by white people? Do you seize them? Charge them more taxes? How do you avoid the investor exodus? Affirmative action is a tough nut when the marginalized group is the supermajority. SA may just have to suck it up and accept the rich whites as "investors".

Land distribution is required.But not forceful seizures.SA has to do this.

They'll get the land and subdivide it into 50x100 and sell it, and in twenty years, no food. Remember NKR ADC.. Its no more.

[RV Pundit]

Robina..two things..one historical injustice..and secondly majority poor people without skills best bet is farming...farming require few skills.Rich South African farmers can move elsewhere.Dutch are great farmers running nearly all serious farming worldwide and south africa are lucky due to that dutch connection....but surely the poor desperate south african deserve land to forage on.

[MOON Ki]

Always a lovely and inspirational story.  Small-scale farmer pulls himself up by the bootstraps and succeeds.   More should get into it.

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/1056-3264078-6ilpaoz/index.html

Tomorrow evening: attending an event organized by UN-related types on food aid to East Africa (including Kenya).   Has now become an a very regular event. Will pass on the good news from here.

[Nefertiti]

No the poor African does not deserve the land to forage. I recommend a good state-served education. Afforded by the excellent tax-paying farmer. If schooling does not uplift him sorry he shouldn't get to subdivide the land. It's for his own good. In any case there is massive acreage unocccupied which he will not convert into useful farmland while hankering for what is already taken. The sustaibable economy is much more useful than the temporary humanitarianism. Those white farmers are the reason SA is not a food begger.

Can you draw a parallel to Kenya? Those herders invading the ranches and acting like it only rains at the ranch. The massive lands outside the ranch they overwhelm with the large herds of cattle then act so righteous and bereaved. Give them the ranch and there would be nothing in a short while. Bye bye to the tourism too. The reason for the herders' suffering is their own backwardness not "historical injustice". This applies to the massive desert that is the entire Ukambani, the upper coast and NFD.

Robina..two things..one historical injustice..and secondly majority poor people without skills best bet is farming...farming require few skills.Rich South African farmers can move elsewhere.Dutch are great farmers running nearly all serious farming worldwide and south africa are lucky due to that dutch connection....but surely the poor desperate south african deserve land to forage on.

[RV Pundit]

Of course you'll never ran out of negative news if you keenly look for them. Kenya smallholder coffee produce some of the highest quality beans everywhere in planet. It been in turmoil the last few years - but since the first smallholder was allowed to plant coffee around late 1950- till around 2000 - that whopping 50 years - small holder coffee - propped the kenyan economy and proved small holder farming was viable and profitable.

Always a lovely and inspirational story.  Small-scale farmer pulls himself up by the bootstraps and succeeds.   More should get into it.

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/1056-3264078-6ilpaoz/index.html

Tomorrow evening: attending an event organized by UN-related types on food aid to East Africa (including Kenya).   Has now become an a very regular event. Will pass on the good news from here.

[RV Pundit]

1) SA or Zim situation is just obnoxious - where white farmers own 90% of arable land - which they acquired through violent means. That cannot be allowed to stand anywhere. Historical injustice 101. Historical affarmative action 101.
2) Productivity will not fall with small holder farming - case in point - kenya's tea,horticulture and coffee. We've proven that productivity - both in quality & quantity - doesn't reduce but actually dramatically increased compared to large scale production.
3) Laikipia is like RSA - there is need for some solution - one or two large scale farmers is okay - but having the whole county occupied by few ranches is not good - my suggestion is for gov to buy out some of the ranches and land be given to herders.
4) Herders - pastoralist - we need to focus on them - they need to individually own land - right now that whole part of kenya is community land - so nobody is responsible for anything. GoK should really work on giving every herder a titledeed - and they will start fencing it off & doing responsible management.

Laikipia and RSA were always ticking time bombs. They will explode.

So don't worry about white farmers - they will be fine - don't worry about productivity - small holders can be organized to produce more !

Just see Netherlands - very tiny country - but second producer of food after USA - which is 270 times bigger.

No the poor African does not deserve the land to forage. I recommend a good state-served education. Afforded by the excellent tax-paying farmer. If schooling does not uplift him sorry he shouldn't get to subdivide the land. It's for his own good. In any case there is massive acreage unocccupied which he will not convert into useful farmland while hankering for what is already taken. The sustaibable economy is much more useful than the temporary humanitarianism. Those white farmers are the reason SA is not a food begger.

Can you draw a parallel to Kenya? Those herders invading the ranches and acting like it only rains at the ranch. The massive lands outside the ranch they overwhelm with the large herds of cattle then act so righteous and bereaved. Give them the ranch and there would be nothing in a short while. Bye bye to the tourism too. The reason for the herders' suffering is their own backwardness not "historical injustice". This applies to the massive desert that is the entire Ukambani, the upper coast and NFD.

[Empedocles]

1) SA or Zim situation is just obnoxious - where white farmers own 90% of arable land - which they acquired through violent means. That cannot be allowed to stand anywhere. Historical injustice 101. Historical affarmative action 101.
2) Productivity will not fall with small holder farming - case in point - kenya's tea,horticulture and coffee. We've proven that productivity - both in quality & quantity - doesn't reduce but actually dramatically increased compared to large scale production.
3) Laikipia is like RSA - there is need for some solution - one or two large scale farmers is okay - but having the whole county occupied by few ranches is not good - my suggestion is for gov to buy out some of the ranches and land be given to herders.
4) Herders - pastoralist - we need to focus on them - they need to individually own land - right now that whole part of kenya is community land - so nobody is responsible for anything. GoK should really work on giving every herder a titledeed - and they will start fencing it off & doing responsible management.

Laikipia and RSA were always ticking time bombs. They will explode.

So don't worry about white farmers - they will be fine - don't worry about productivity - small holders can be organized to produce more !

Just see Netherlands - very tiny country - but second producer of food after USA - which is 270 times bigger.

No the poor African does not deserve the land to forage. I recommend a good state-served education. Afforded by the excellent tax-paying farmer. If schooling does not uplift him sorry he shouldn't get to subdivide the land. It's for his own good. In any case there is massive acreage unocccupied which he will not convert into useful farmland while hankering for what is already taken. The sustaibable economy is much more useful than the temporary humanitarianism. Those white farmers are the reason SA is not a food begger.

Can you draw a parallel to Kenya? Those herders invading the ranches and acting like it only rains at the ranch. The massive lands outside the ranch they overwhelm with the large herds of cattle then act so righteous and bereaved. Give them the ranch and there would be nothing in a short while. Bye bye to the tourism too. The reason for the herders' suffering is their own backwardness not "historical injustice". This applies to the massive desert that is the entire Ukambani, the upper coast and NFD.

You lost me here.

[MOON Ki]

Of course you'll never ran out of negative news if you keenly look for them. Kenya smallholder coffee produce some of the highest quality beans everywhere in planet. It been in turmoil the last few years - but since the first smallholder was allowed to plant coffee around late 1950- till around 2000 - that whopping 50 years - small holder coffee - propped the kenyan economy and proved small holder farming was viable and profitable.

That's great.   So it is a real pity that people cannot eat tea or coffee.  Other than the endless begging for food---regular bad news that one doesn't have to look for---take a look at Kenya's annual non-aid imports of maize, wheat, and  rice.

[MOON Ki]

1) SA or Zim situation is just obnoxious - where white farmers own 90% of arable land - which they acquired through violent means. That cannot be allowed to stand anywhere. Historical injustice 101. Historical affarmative action 101.
2) Productivity will not fall with small holder farming - case in point - kenya's tea,horticulture and coffee. We've proven that productivity - both in quality & quantity - doesn't reduce but actually dramatically increased compared to large scale production.
3) Laikipia is like RSA - there is need for some solution - one or two large scale farmers is okay - but having the whole county occupied by few ranches is not good - my suggestion is for gov to buy out some of the ranches and land be given to herders.
4) Herders - pastoralist - we need to focus on them - they need to individually own land - right now that whole part of kenya is community land - so nobody is responsible for anything. GoK should really work on giving every herder a titledeed - and they will start fencing it off & doing responsible management.

Laikipia and RSA were always ticking time bombs. They will explode.

So don't worry about white farmers - they will be fine - don't worry about productivity - small holders can be organized to produce more !

Just see Netherlands - very tiny country - but second producer of food after USA - which is 270 times bigger.

Your made-up "facts" keep getting more and more bizarre.   

[Nefertiti]

1) SA or Zim situation is just obnoxious - where white farmers own 90% of arable land - which they acquired through violent means. That cannot be allowed to stand anywhere. Historical injustice 101. Historical affarmative action 101.
2) Productivity will not fall with small holder farming - case in point - kenya's tea,horticulture and coffee. We've proven that productivity - both in quality & quantity - doesn't reduce but actually dramatically increased compared to large scale production.
3) Laikipia is like RSA - there is need for some solution - one or two large scale farmers is okay - but having the whole county occupied by few ranches is not good - my suggestion is for gov to buy out some of the ranches and land be given to herders.
4) Herders - pastoralist - we need to focus on them - they need to individually own land - right now that whole part of kenya is community land - so nobody is responsible for anything. GoK should really work on giving every herder a titledeed - and they will start fencing it off & doing responsible management.

Laikipia and RSA were always ticking time bombs. They will explode.

So don't worry about white farmers - they will be fine - don't worry about productivity - small holders can be organized to produce more !

Just see Netherlands - very tiny country - but second producer of food after USA - which is 270 times bigger.

Your made-up "facts" keep getting more and more bizarre.   

This appears to be a true fact actually.

https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-Netherlands-the-second-largest-food-exporter

[MOON Ki]

1) SA or Zim situation is just obnoxious - where white farmers own 90% of arable land - which they acquired through violent means. That cannot be allowed to stand anywhere. Historical injustice 101. Historical affarmative action 101.
2) Productivity will not fall with small holder farming - case in point - kenya's tea,horticulture and coffee. We've proven that productivity - both in quality & quantity - doesn't reduce but actually dramatically increased compared to large scale production.
3) Laikipia is like RSA - there is need for some solution - one or two large scale farmers is okay - but having the whole county occupied by few ranches is not good - my suggestion is for gov to buy out some of the ranches and land be given to herders.
4) Herders - pastoralist - we need to focus on them - they need to individually own land - right now that whole part of kenya is community land - so nobody is responsible for anything. GoK should really work on giving every herder a titledeed - and they will start fencing it off & doing responsible management.

Laikipia and RSA were always ticking time bombs. They will explode.

So don't worry about white farmers - they will be fine - don't worry about productivity - small holders can be organized to produce more !

Just see Netherlands - very tiny country - but second producer of food after USA - which is 270 times bigger.

Your made-up "facts" keep getting more and more bizarre.   

This appears to be a true fact actually.

https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-Netherlands-the-second-largest-food-exporter

That says "second largest exporter", not "second largest producer".    A significant difference.

Kenya's biggest problem is basic production ... enough to properly feed its people.   So whatever one wishes to make of the Netherlands---and they do well in food production---to simply say "oh, look at the Netherlands (or wherever), Kenya can do it" is not good enough.   Other than the fact that the Netherlands is a sort of exception, if Kenya can do it, then when will it get to doing it?

The other thing I would look at is what Kenyans need, in terms of basic food,  and how best to produce it in large volumes.    At the top of the list, I would put maize, rice, and wheat.   So, how does the fantastic Netherlands do in, say,  maize production?. It imports millions of tonnes each year, way more than it produces.    Wheat?  Imports millions of tonnes per year, substantially more than it produces.  Rice? Zero production and imports hundreds of tonnes per year.   Obviously their great farming methods don't apply to those things; so it questionable to start using the Netherlands as a "model" for how to feed Kenyans.

On the idea of using the Netherlands as a "model" for the promotion of land division and small-scale farming, there's this:

by 2008 there were 70% fewer farms than in 1960. Further expansion of farm size and scale is expected to continue in the future.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1573521413000183