Desperate NASA btw rock and hard place.

[vooke]

Us ONLY wants dialogue towards re-run not power sharing fantasies

[Nefertiti]

I see. NASA must be very careful not to dig themselves into a big hole... once mass action starts - they will start fighting with Sonko and Mutua - even Ngilu - who will ask them to stop scaring away investors from their towns. Don't even go down the secession route. Most Kenyans - after watching Somalia and South Sudan go down the drain - will abandon NASA in droves.

Option 2 is the most likely outcome - by writing formally to the IEBC - otherwise despite "boycott" the record will be 80% historic beating  in an election with international observers.

What leverage do they have for nusu-mkate. If they boycott elections - Uhuru will still win - either by default  - or winning more than half of votes & 25 counties - Uhuru already has super-majority in both houses of parliament, county gok as functioning and security forces seem on top of things.

In short without widespread violence - which NASA are incapable of pulling - the US don't give a rat arse about this - and will concentrate on North Korea & other serious stuff. NASA will try their mass action - but it will only fly in Kondele, Mathere and Kibera for 2 days before it fizzle out - while rest of the country will move on.

3) Play brinkman and force nusu mkate. Already the US is demanding them to cooperate/dialogue.

[patel]

What kind of high grade crack are you smoking miss little piggy?

I see. NASA must be very careful not to dig themselves into a big hole... once mass action starts - they will start fighting with Sonko and Mutua - even Ngilu - who will ask them to stop scaring away investors from their towns. Don't even go down the secession route. Most Kenyans - after watching Somalia and South Sudan go down the drain - will abandon NASA in droves.

Option 2 is the most likely outcome - by writing formally to the IEBC - otherwise despite "boycott" the record will be 80% historic beating  in an election with international observers.

What leverage do they have for nusu-mkate. If they boycott elections - Uhuru will still win - either by default  - or winning more than half of votes & 25 counties - Uhuru already has super-majority in both houses of parliament, county gok as functioning and security forces seem on top of things.

In short without widespread violence - which NASA are incapable of pulling - the US don't give a rat arse about this - and will concentrate on North Korea & other serious stuff. NASA will try their mass action - but it will only fly in Kondele, Mathere and Kibera for 2 days before it fizzle out - while rest of the country will move on.

3) Play brinkman and force nusu mkate. Already the US is demanding them to cooperate/dialogue.

[Kichwa]

Robina: Its obvious that you do not understand how fired up the base of NASA is.  People are already carrying the "new flag" to the rallies. Sonko, Mutua and Ngilu are the ones to be swept into the NASA movement and not the other way round. Secession talk is here to stay.  The only compromise to secession will be more money and autonomy to the counties, and an end to this winner take all presidency which Kalenjins and kikuyus want to use to dominate other tribes.

I see. NASA must be very careful not to dig themselves into a big hole... once mass action starts - they will start fighting with Sonko and Mutua - even Ngilu - who will ask them to stop scaring away investors from their towns. Don't even go down the secession route. Most Kenyans - after watching Somalia and South Sudan go down the drain - will abandon NASA in droves.

Option 2 is the most likely outcome - by writing formally to the IEBC - otherwise despite "boycott" the record will be 80% historic beating  in an election with international observers.

What leverage do they have for nusu-mkate. If they boycott elections - Uhuru will still win - either by default  - or winning more than half of votes & 25 counties - Uhuru already has super-majority in both houses of parliament, county gok as functioning and security forces seem on top of things.

In short without widespread violence - which NASA are incapable of pulling - the US don't give a rat arse about this - and will concentrate on North Korea & other serious stuff. NASA will try their mass action - but it will only fly in Kondele, Mathere and Kibera for 2 days before it fizzle out - while rest of the country will move on.

3) Play brinkman and force nusu mkate. Already the US is demanding them to cooperate/dialogue.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

It's obvious NASA believe they have no chance in an election that can be easily rigged.  They will be the first to tell you that.  I don't see the value of repeating something nobody is disputing.

[RV Pundit]

Nobody is buying that secession crap. First to secede they are two options 1) referendum 2) violent way - I don't think you have the numbers for 1) and the stomach for 2. So all this are just empty hollow desperate threats. You have one option - concede and live to fight another day.

Robina: Its obvious that you do not understand how fired up the base of NASA is.  People are already carrying the "new flag" to the rallies. Sonko, Mutua and Ngilu are the ones to be swept into the NASA movement and not the other way round. Secession talk is here to stay.  The only compromise to secession will be more money and autonomy to the counties, and an end to this winner take all presidency which Kalenjins and kikuyus want to use to dominate other tribes.

[RV Pundit]

We don't listen to words only; we also observe actions; which normally speak louder than words.

It's obvious NASA believe they have no chance in an election that can be easily rigged.  They will be the first to tell you that.  I don't see the value of repeating something nobody is disputing.

[RV Pundit]

I think they'll go for option 1 - and hope it ignite violence in their strongholds so international community can pressure Uhuru for deal (ala 2007-2008 or 2008 Zim deal)-where their supporters are trying to battle police and IEBC from conducting election. But like you say - if 2 people cast their votes for Uhuru out of 2  - that 100% score.

I see. NASA must be very careful not to dig themselves into a big hole... once mass action starts - they will start fighting with Sonko and Mutua - even Ngilu - who will ask them to stop scaring away investors from their towns. Don't even go down the secession route. Most Kenyans - after watching Somalia and South Sudan go down the drain - will abandon NASA in droves.

Option 2 is the most likely outcome - by writing formally to the IEBC - otherwise despite "boycott" the record will be 80% historic beating  in an election with international observers.

[Kadame7]

Nobody is buying that secession crap. First to secede they are two options 1) referendum 2) violent way - I don't think you have the numbers for 1) and the stomach for 2. So all this are just empty hollow desperate threats. You have one option - concede and live to fight another day.

Robina: Its obvious that you do not understand how fired up the base of NASA is.  People are already carrying the "new flag" to the rallies. Sonko, Mutua and Ngilu are the ones to be swept into the NASA movement and not the other way round. Secession talk is here to stay.  The only compromise to secession will be more money and autonomy to the counties, and an end to this winner take all presidency which Kalenjins and kikuyus want to use to dominate other tribes.

So relax. When Arab spring started everyone thought it was a joke. If this is a joke itll fizzle. But what I know. It used to be downright crazy talk. Not too long ago. Now, not anymore. It is more and more mainstream.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Nobody is buying that secession crap. First to secede they are two options 1) referendum 2) violent way - I don't think you have the numbers for 1) and the stomach for 2. So all this are just empty hollow desperate threats. You have one option - concede and live to fight another day.

Robina: Its obvious that you do not understand how fired up the base of NASA is.  People are already carrying the "new flag" to the rallies. Sonko, Mutua and Ngilu are the ones to be swept into the NASA movement and not the other way round. Secession talk is here to stay.  The only compromise to secession will be more money and autonomy to the counties, and an end to this winner take all presidency which Kalenjins and kikuyus want to use to dominate other tribes.

The reason secession is hard is not domestic but international.  Once recognition by major players comes in the rest is irrelevant.  If I want secession, I would try to push for US recognition, failure for that, EU etc.  After that maybe referendum in the territory that wants to secede.  The rest would fall into place once those two are attained.  Are they easy to get?  Nope.  But they are the real hurdles in a secession.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

We don't listen to words only; we also observe actions; which normally speak louder than words.

It's obvious NASA believe they have no chance in an election that can be easily rigged.  They will be the first to tell you that.  I don't see the value of repeating something nobody is disputing.

Well, then that should be easy.  The action thus far is that Jubilee did not win.

[Nefertiti]

You may have a point... although am actually a lukewarm NASA supporter... am not fired up. I guess I don't believe in change at all cost. IEBC was appointed with Raila's participation - for 2013 and 2017 - I don't believe the defeat last month was caused by massive cheating. NASA lost the elections and will lose the repeat. Reforms are a lifetime process and are called continuous improvement when there is no acrimony. Any new IEBC personnel will be called thieves after Oct 17th.

There are secession efforts in Spain(Catalonia), UK (Scotland, N.Ireland), etc - rich countries that have no electoral fraud. In N. Ireland it's bizarre catholic-protestant nonsense. Still in UK the Scots can't stomach the English tyranny of numbers... where Gordon Brown could not last 3yrs due to anti-Scot sentiment in England. Ours is driven by ukabila. Kikuyus wanted secession during Moi... if Raila wins Luos would suddenly trust the IEBC and don't be surprised to see Kikuyus calling for secession... Punda amechoka  Personally I think - with our tribal bile and mistrust - we need further devolution which should be pegged to internationally recognized optimal levels - considering Kenya is a tiny country. US, Germany have 40% devolution of national revenues.

Democracy like life has winners and losers. Let's be adult about it.

Robina: Its obvious that you do not understand how fired up the base of NASA is.  People are already carrying the "new flag" to the rallies. Sonko, Mutua and Ngilu are the ones to be swept into the NASA movement and not the other way round. Secession talk is here to stay.  The only compromise to secession will be more money and autonomy to the counties, and an end to this winner take all presidency which Kalenjins and kikuyus want to use to dominate other tribes.

I see. NASA must be very careful not to dig themselves into a big hole... once mass action starts - they will start fighting with Sonko and Mutua - even Ngilu - who will ask them to stop scaring away investors from their towns. Don't even go down the secession route. Most Kenyans - after watching Somalia and South Sudan go down the drain - will abandon NASA in droves.

Option 2 is the most likely outcome - by writing formally to the IEBC - otherwise despite "boycott" the record will be 80% historic beating  in an election with international observers.

[Kichwa]

Secession talk is real and has a very huge following.  The calculation of Ruto was that you steal elections, scare the people with police power, shoot a few luos and mambo kwisha. When Ndii started the secession talk some people laughed.  Now we have secession flags flying and folks going to court to litigate secession.  Kenya is not going back to the Moi/Kenyattaa days no matter how much money Ruto uses to buy people.  They have bought all the people they can buy, the remaining Kenyans are not for sale and there are enough of us left to give them pure hell.  The secession talk is just beginning. Its our bottom- line. If all fails then we secede. If you want to know how powerful this idea is, then just imagine that not too long ago, it was not even a political issue for discussion and within a month it has gained so much popularity in NASA strong holds.  That's nothing to sneeze at.  Meanwhile we will not accept another elections without reforms and if Jubilee think they can hold sham elections and swear in Ouru then they are in for one hell of political fight until  proper elections are held and a president who is properly elected is sworn in.  I do not think that president will be ouru or Ruto.

Nobody is buying that secession crap. First to secede they are two options 1) referendum 2) violent way - I don't think you have the numbers for 1) and the stomach for 2. So all this are just empty hollow desperate threats. You have one option - concede and live to fight another day.

Robina: Its obvious that you do not understand how fired up the base of NASA is.  People are already carrying the "new flag" to the rallies. Sonko, Mutua and Ngilu are the ones to be swept into the NASA movement and not the other way round. Secession talk is here to stay.  The only compromise to secession will be more money and autonomy to the counties, and an end to this winner take all presidency which Kalenjins and kikuyus want to use to dominate other tribes.

The reason secession is hard is not domestic but international.  Once recognition by major players comes in the rest is irrelevant.  If I want secession, I would try to push for US recognition, failure for that, EU etc.  After that maybe referendum in the territory that wants to secede.  The rest would fall into place once those two are attained.  Are they easy to get?  Nope.  But they are the real hurdles in a secession.

[RV Pundit]

That is just mere idle talk. Go ahead and secede already. I don't think anybody is losing sleep if Luo Nyanza secede today. Maybe it about time you test war the same way Kikuyu and Kalenjin tasted war during colonial and post-colonial period. There was secession by some fools in Coast - Pwani sio Kenya - how did that end?

My advice - concede and live to fight another day - anything else is bound to bring more misery, poverty and teeth-gnashing while rest of kenya move ahead.

Secession talk is real and has a very huge following.  The calculation of Ruto was that you steal elections, scare the people with police power, shoot a few luos and mambo kwisha. When Ndii started the secession talk some people laughed.  Now we have secession flags flying and folks going to court to litigate secession.  Kenya is not going back to the Moi/Kenyattaa days no matter how much money Ruto uses to buy people.  They have bought all the people they can buy, the remaining Kenyans are not for sale and there are enough of us left to give them pure hell.  The secession talk is just beginning. Its our bottom- line. If all fails then we secede. If you want to know how powerful this idea is, then just imagine that not too long ago, it was not even a political issue for discussion and within a month it has gained so much popularity in NASA strong holds.  That's nothing to sneeze at.  Meanwhile we will not accept another elections without reforms and if Jubilee think they can hold sham elections and swear in Ouru then they are in for one hell of political fight until  proper elections are held and a president who is properly elected is sworn in.  I do not think that president will be ouru or Ruto.

[Omollo]

You are so angry and your rage is denying you the capacity to look at things in their true perspective.

First of all you have to end living in denial by accepting that:L

a. Uhuru did not win the elections
b. Uhuru did not beat Raila
c. You have no way of knowing that Uhuru will win a fresh election
d. Jubilee lost the so called tyranny of numbers a long time ago and it has been proven to you multiple times

Now here are other simple facts you should try hard to absorb:

• NASA is NOT pushing for Nusu-Mkate: Uhuru is pushing for it (demand proof and you will be given)
• NASA has NOT said it will boycott elections: The mantra is No Elections. Try hard to understand the meaning and the difference between that and what you are alleging without proof
• What you are saying about Uhuru "winning" by default is founded on ignorance. I have no time to wisen you up but in time you will
• Please do not misrepresent the US. You statements run in head winds based on what is both publicly available and otherwise (see another thread)

What leverage do they have for nusu-mkate. If they boycott elections - Uhuru will still win - either by default  - or winning more than half of votes & 25 counties - Uhuru already has super-majority in both houses of parliament, county gok as functioning and security forces seem on top of things.

In short without widespread violence - which NASA are incapable of pulling - the US don't give a rat arse about this - and will concentrate on North Korea & other serious stuff. NASA will try their mass action - but it will only fly in Kondele, Mathere and Kibera for 2 days before it fizzle out - while rest of the country will move on.

3) Play brinkman and force nusu mkate. Already the US is demanding them to cooperate/dialogue.

[Omollo]

More evidence of Pundit having become more Muthamaki than Uthamaki: He thinks that Opposition is just wajaluo! You have no idea!

That is just mere idle talk. Go ahead and secede already. I don't think anybody is losing sleep if Luo Nyanza secede today.

[RV Pundit]

Here comes the sky is pink. Omollosque nonsense at it best. You live in your own universe. You have zero leverage that can make UhuRuto share power. Power is not just given. You got to fight hard and long enough for it. Ruto has earned his place in power.

You are so angry and your rage is denying you the capacity to look at things in their true perspective.

First of all you have to end living in denial by accepting that:L

a. Uhuru did not win the elections
b. Uhuru did not beat Raila
c. You have no way of knowing that Uhuru will win a fresh election
d. Jubilee lost the so called tyranny of numbers a long time ago and it has been proven to you multiple times

Now here are other simple facts you should try hard to absorb:

• NASA is NOT pushing for Nusu-Mkate: Uhuru is pushing for it (demand proof and you will be given)
• NASA has NOT said it will boycott elections: The mantra is No Elections. Try hard to understand the meaning and the difference between that and what you are alleging without proof
• What you are saying about Uhuru "winning" by default is founded on ignorance. I have no time to wisen you up but in time you will
• Please do not misrepresent the US. You statements run in head winds based on what is both publicly available and otherwise (see another thread)

[RV Pundit]

When Raila lost - nobody protested in Bungoma, Kakamega, Busia, Kisii,Kitui, Machakos, Mombasa or Garissa - it was clearly a luo affair - that fizzled out as soon as it started in Kondele, Kibera and Mathare. Again where is the leverage. You need to realize the Nusu-Mkate Raila got - Kalenjin warriors did a LOT of heavy lifting. Kibaki was never gonna just share power just because some luo were protesting - something they've been doing from 1966 all through Moi's regime. He shared power mainly because Kalenjin warriors made RV hell for his people.

You need to understand that power concede nothing. If you don't even have Mungiki - how do you hope to win power? Through slings and stones - where you burn and stone your town? Donge.

Show me one thing (leverage) that will force Uhuru to share power. Maybe a rogue judiciary.

More evidence of Pundit having become more Muthamaki than Uthamaki: He thinks that Opposition is just wajaluo! You have no idea!

[Omollo]

There are facts presented and not least by the apex court of the land.

When you talk of "defeat" upon what fact do you stand? Where do you pull those "facts" from? You have some cheap rotten ideas.

You may have a point... although am actually a lukewarm NASA supporter... am not fired up. I guess I don't believe in change at all cost. IEBC was appointed with Raila's participation - for 2013 and 2017 - I don't believe the defeat last month was caused by massive cheating. NASA lost the elections and will lose the repeat. Reforms are a lifetime process and are called continuous improvement when there is no acrimony. Any new IEBC personnel will be called thieves after Oct 17th.

There are secession efforts in Spain(Catalonia), UK (Scotland, N.Ireland), etc - rich countries that have no electoral fraud. In N. Ireland it's bizarre catholic-protestant nonsense. Still in UK the Scots can't stomach the English tyranny of numbers... where Gordon Brown could not last 3yrs due to anti-Scot sentiment in England. Ours is driven by ukabila. Kikuyus wanted secession during Moi... if Raila wins Luos would suddenly trust the IEBC and don't be surprised to see Kikuyus calling for secession... Punda amechoka  Personally I think - with our tribal bile and mistrust - we need further devolution which should be pegged to internationally recognized optimal levels - considering Kenya is a tiny country. US, Germany have 40% devolution of national revenues.

Democracy like life has winners and losers. Let's be adult about it.

[Omollo]

What was your source of information on the dearth of protests?

Bryan please post that video of Vofranga MPs being kicked out of a funeral in Bungoma for Pundit to see.

Again let me repeat may be it will get through: NASA is AGAINST Nusu Mkate. If you have beef with nusu mkate talk to Uhuru Kenyatta. He sent his lawyer to court to beg for it and has been sending pastors and Catholic priests to beg. NASA has NOT sent anybody.

When you get evidence of NASA begging for Nusu Mkate please share it. You anger against Nusu-Mkate must be directed at Uhuru Kenyatta not NASA. Pole

When Raila lost - nobody protested in Bungoma, Kakamega, Busia, Kisii,Kitui, Machakos, Mombasa or Garissa - it was clearly a luo affair - that fizzled out as soon as it started in Kondele, Kibera and Mathare. Again where is the leverage. You need to realize the Nusu-Mkate Raila got - Kalenjin warriors did a LOT of heavy lifting. Kibaki was never gonna just share power just because some luo were protesting - something they've been doing from 1966 all through Moi's regime. He shared power mainly because Kalenjin warriors made RV hell for his people.

You need to understand that power concede nothing. If you don't even have Mungiki - how do you hope to win power? Through slings and stones - where you burn and storn your town? Donge.

More evidence of Pundit having become more Muthamaki than Uthamaki: He thinks that Opposition is just wajaluo! You have no idea!