A National Unity Government Is Not A Bad Idea

[RV Pundit]

Omollo,
SCOK ordered IEBC to hold repeat election. IEBC have been holding repeat elections for MPs or Governors or Senator. Wetangula did have his election annulled and he won again. You cannot have your cake and eat it. You have to agree with Maraga that IEBC should hold election in 60 days - Maraga did not find evidence enough to disband IEBC; assuming he had such powers.

IEBC will hold election. You guys are already trembling because you know NASA used technical excuses to have the election that everyone reckons was free and fair to be annualed.

Uhuru win will be confirmed. I have no doubt about that. Nobody has presented any evidence that Uhuru rigged the poll. We just had bumbling and fumbling IEBC failing to sign forms & do the basics.

[Kadame7]

Omollo,
SCOK ordered IEBC to hold repeat election. IEBC have been holding repeat elections for MPs or Governors or Senator. Wetangula did have his election annulled and he won again. You cannot have your cake and eat it. You have to agree with Maraga that IEBC should hold election in 60 days - Maraga did not find evidence enough to disband IEBC; assuming he had such powers.

IEBC will hold election. You guys are already trembling because you know NASA used technical excuses to have the election that everyone reckons was free and fair to be annualed.

Uhuru win will be confirmed. I have no doubt about that. Nobody has presented any evidence that Uhuru rigged the poll. We just had bumbling and fumbling IEBC failing to sign forms & do the basics.

Even if Uhuru wins again, I find yours and kina Robina's arguments that this was just innocent fumbling borderline naive: Could you give me an innocent explanation you can come up with that proper forms were dumped and replaced by so many officers, over 40,000 polling stations did not communicate to the server all that data we were seeing on 8th usiku, and Chebukati announced the result without all the 34 Bs and thousands of 34 As still out? How were the 34Bs even compiled by the respective R.O.s?

[RV Pundit]

We have asked for simplest the basic of evidence. In whole of Gusii region which you think was rigged - find us the correct Form 34As. Surely someone must have the copy of the original FORM 34As. I mean people sat and counted the votes - so people say in your local primary - knows the results - and what later turned up in Nairobi is different. Please kindly prove this.

Show us one single form 34A that was original agreed and signed by NASA agents - and was later altered. You have 41k polling stations.

Maraga and the other judges who trusted NASA will looked like ICC judges who trusted Maina Kia - I mean everyone in RV (all DCS, DOS,) including yours truly saw the spontaneous violence erupt but some fools claimed Ruto was planning violence since 2005!. They will look stupid as Uhuru win is confirmed. They would have wasted 40B Kshs.

Even if Uhuru wins again, I find yours and kina Robina's arguments that this was just innocent fumbling borderline naive: Could you give me an innocent explanation you can come up with that proper forms were dumped and replaced by so many officers, over 40,000 polling stations did not communicate to the server all that data we were seeing on 8th usiku, and Chebukati announced the result without all the 34 Bs and thousands of 34 As still out? How were the 34Bs even compiled by the respective R.O.s?

[Kadame7]

We have asked for simples the basic of evidence. In whole of Gusii region which you think was rigged - find us the correct Form 34As. Surely someone must have the copy of the original FORM 34As. I mean people sat and counted the votes - so people say in your local primary - knows the results - and what later turned up in Nairobi is different. Please kindly prove this.

Maraga and the other judges who trusted NASA will looked like ICC judges who trusted Maina Kia. They will look stupid as Uhuru win is confirmed. They would have wasted 40B Kshs.

Even if Uhuru wins again, I find yours and kina Robina's arguments that this was just innocent fumbling borderline naive: Could you give me an innocent explanation you can come up with that proper forms were dumped and replaced by so many officers, over 40,000 polling stations did not communicate to the server all that data we were seeing on 8th usiku, and Chebukati announced the result without all the 34 Bs and thousands of 34 As still out? How were the 34Bs even compiled by the respective R.O.s?

So even you can't find a good explanation for any of this. I hope you can appreciate then, why any fair judge would nullify this joke of an election even inspite of Ahmednassir's and Murkomen's night visits to their home. 

[RV Pundit]

When did the pendulum swing to me. You made rigging allegation - proof it. on 17th October after the repeat - we will find out who is right. As of now - I am happy we have a date to meet again.

So even you can't find a good explanation for any of this. I hope you can appreciate why any fair judge would nullify this joke of an election then, even inspite of Ahmednassir's and Murkomen's night visits to their home. 

[Kadame7]

When did the pendulum swing to me. You made rigging allegation - proof it. on 17th October after the repeat - we will find out who is right. As of now - I am happy we have a date to meet again.

So even you can't find a good explanation for any of this. I hope you can appreciate why any fair judge would nullify this joke of an election then, even inspite of Ahmednassir's and Murkomen's night visits to their home. 

I already did that. Rigging is interference/manipulation: I can find no credible reason for all this to happen innocently. That's why I asked if you could think of one....

[RV Pundit]

If errors were intended to favour Uhuru it would show. The forms without signatures were mostly in Mombasa - Raila stronghold. You know after Maina Kiai rulling I predict this is exactly what was gonna happen. Normally IEBC at HQ would clean things up - make sure RO has signed & dotted all the ts. You ran around saying - IEBC at Const would be as meticilous as Chebukati. But now it bloody chaos. We will see a lot of mess. Those ROS just end up spoiling Chebukati name.

I already did that. Rigging is interference/manipulation: I can find no credible reason for all this to happen innocently. That's why I asked if you could think of one....

[MOON Ki]

If errors were intended to favour Uhuru it would show. The forms without signatures were mostly in Mombasa - Raila stronghold.

I don't know who did what or why.   But, as a matter of simple logic, there are at least two way in which to "favour" Uhuru:

(1) Add bogus votes to Uhuru's count.
(2) Lose legitimate votes that belong to Raila.

And one way to do (2) is to work in Raila's strongholds and replace proper forms with funny, unsigned forms.   (Note that I am not stating that that is what happened.)

[Kichwa]

RV-you are still stuck in the numbers argument. whether the anomaly occurred in Raila's stronghold or Ouru's stronghold is immaterial.  The whole idea was for Jubilee to misstate the numbers by such a huge margin then insist that the court cannot overturn the election until NASA can prove that all those votes were stolen.  Jubilee lived and died with that argument.  The  argument which won the day was that the process gives life to the numbers.   IEBC should therefore focus on the process in the re-rerun and let the chips fall where they may.  Do not again call the elections until you have all 34A's and make sure that Nyando and Tana river votes are included in the 34C before you read who the winner is even if you think it will not make a difference.

If errors were intended to favour Uhuru it would show. The forms without signatures were mostly in Mombasa - Raila stronghold.

I don't know who did what or why.   But, as a matter of simple logic, there are at least two way in which to "favour" Uhuru:

(1) Add bogus votes to Uhuru's count.
(2) Lose legitimate votes that belong to Raila.

And one way to do (2) is to work in Raila's strongholds and replace proper forms with funny, unsigned forms.   (Note that I am not stating that that is what happened.)

[MOON Ki]

RV-you are still stuck in the numbers argument. whether the anomaly occurred in Raila's stronghold or Ouru's stronghold is immaterial.  The whole idea was for Jubilee to misstate the numbers by such a huge margin then insist that the court cannot overturn the election until NASA can prove that all those votes were stolen.  Jubilee lived and died with that argument.  The  argument which won the day was that the process gives life to the numbers.   IEBC should therefore focus on the process in the re-rerun and let the chips fall where they may.  Do not again call the elections until you have all 34A's and make sure that Nyando and Tana river votes are included in the 34C before you read who the winner is even if you think it will not make a difference.

Try and read what I write with a bit more care.   The point I was making is actually not about numbers; it is about logic.     Simply put, it is this: a thing or an event or whatever can be interpreted in more than one way.    Now, please calm down.   

[Kadame7]

RV-you are still stuck in the numbers argument. whether the anomaly occurred in Raila's stronghold or Ouru's stronghold is immaterial.  The whole idea was for Jubilee to misstate the numbers by such a huge margin then insist that the court cannot overturn the election until NASA can prove that all those votes were stolen.  Jubilee lived and died with that argument.  The  argument which won the day was that the process gives life to the numbers.   IEBC should therefore focus on the process in the re-rerun and let the chips fall where they may.  Do not again call the elections until you have all 34A's and make sure that Nyando and Tana river votes are included in the 34C before you read who the winner is even if you think it will not make a difference.

Try and read what I write with a bit more care.   The point I was making is actually not about numbers; it is about logic.     Simply put, it is this: a thing or an event or whatever can be interpreted in more than one way.    Now, please calm down.   

He was talking to RV Pundit. I think he quoted the wrong post.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The numbers argument resurrected.  I mention elsewhere, the jubilant cannot let it go.  Because it overturns their entire world view.

[Kichwa]

I was not responding to you and I am very calm. RV= pundit and not Moon ki. 

RV-you are still stuck in the numbers argument. whether the anomaly occurred in Raila's stronghold or Ouru's stronghold is immaterial.  The whole idea was for Jubilee to misstate the numbers by such a huge margin then insist that the court cannot overturn the election until NASA can prove that all those votes were stolen.  Jubilee lived and died with that argument.  The  argument which won the day was that the process gives life to the numbers.   IEBC should therefore focus on the process in the re-rerun and let the chips fall where they may.  Do not again call the elections until you have all 34A's and make sure that Nyando and Tana river votes are included in the 34C before you read who the winner is even if you think it will not make a difference.

Try and read what I write with a bit more care.   The point I was making is actually not about numbers; it is about logic.     Simply put, it is this: a thing or an event or whatever can be interpreted in more than one way.    Now, please calm down.   

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

A Rwanda/Somali is the inevitable conclusion of polarized tribal politics. But I don't see how a fake unity called a govt of national unity is the solution. If that is the talk within NASA, I will tell you right now its gonna be badly received. You might as well just admit defeat right now. I for one see no reason why I should support a party seeking nusu mkate. Are we for structural changes or securing positions for NASA principals and others? If its the positions they want they can look for them on their own. No need to take us all along for the ride.

Pope Francis' wishy washy "spirituality" has set me and many on a path of spiritual confusion/crisis/rethinking our association with the Catholic Church because it makes you question whether you were sold an empty bag of hot air in the first place. Look, you must be able to show people that you yourself believe the claims you have sold your followers if you want them to follow your leadership.

Many of us support Raila consistently because we GENUINELY believe certain things: like the fact that he has been treated unfairly by a no-good shadowy elite of one group. We want fairness and we also believe that the enmity from these cartels are indication that Raila himself can be trusted to take us closer to rather than further away from the functional institutionalized integral governance we seek than others, even if he only does so simply by respecting institutions and not interfering. I can see civil society and other focusses of important structural change thrive rather than merely survive under his tenure, if nothing else.

If this nusu mkate business starts, it will show us more than anything that NASA themselves don't believe they won the election or that they are capable of winning it. Please, if this are ideas coming from within tell them they are going to lose far more support than they can gain advantages.

I know this is about siasa.  But just curious why you think Pope Francis comes across that way.  To me, he behaves like I would imagine Jesus would actually have behaved.  The Jesus I knew was not a judgmental kind of guy, put the pharisees in their place, embraced all sorts of taboo characters.  Francis comes across as genuine saintly material.

[MOON Ki]

I was not responding to you and I am very calm. RV= pundit and not Moon ki. 

In that case, you should write with a bit more care.   The quoted "post" was from MOON Ki (not Moon Ki, by the way).    And the response starts with "RV-you", which suggests a combination of "RV" and "you".

Otherwise, I'm happy to hear that you are calm.   We need all the calmness we can get.

[vooke]

If there were real rigging, the full judgement will reveal that. If the judgement is silent, the re-run will without doubt expose it.

Absence of any forms contradicting IEBC's compels me to banish rigging claims to the same heap of bs I discarded antivaccers,chemtrails....I hope I'm wrong

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

If errors were intended to favour Uhuru it would show. The forms without signatures were mostly in Mombasa - Raila stronghold.

I don't know who did what or why.   But, as a matter of simple logic, there are at least two way in which to "favour" Uhuru:

(1) Add bogus votes to Uhuru's count.
(2) Lose legitimate votes that belong to Raila.

And one way to do (2) is to work in Raila's strongholds and replace proper forms with funny, unsigned forms.   (Note that I am not stating that that is what happened.)

Another way for number (2) is to openly rig with something like 110% turnout shown on the forms in Raila's strongholds.  As kichwa would say, there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Because of that, rigging comes in forms only limited by the imagination.  Conversely, there are very few ways of getting it right.

[Kadame7]

I know this is about siasa.  But just curious why you think Pope Francis comes across that way.  To me, he behaves like I would imagine Jesus would actually have behaved.  The Jesus I knew was not a judgmental kind of guy, put the pharisees in their place, embraced all sorts of taboo characters.  Francis comes across as genuine saintly material.

Hmm...this is a very personal and painful topic for me and I'd rather not discuss it, but....Yes, I understand how/why you would have that view and I respect him but for someone who was as invested in the truthfulness of the teachings of the Catholic Church above all as I was, Pope Francis has been as near a disaster as they come. Look, the pope is a nice chap. But he is also much more a politician than he is a Bishop. And he has around himself a group of cardinals who are what I can call PR geniuses with long-standing ties to the media who have made sure the pope remains a darling, which I don't mind at all. I don't want the pope needlessly attacked simply for being Catholic.

But the pope speaks with one end of his mouth to one audience and swiftly pulls another appearance when he is talking to an audience of Orthodox Catholics. Besides ancient people I only read about in historical accounts (with the attendant psychological distance that provides), pope Francis has honestly behaved in the most political ways as I have witnessed a pope do in my life time. He is not above underhanded tactics like setting up essentially fake discussions groups of Bishops to discuss a church issue and then using minions to deftly and in a very UN-transparent way attempt to manipulate the outcome in a manner I have only associated with politicians (and not those I consider the most honest), and then upon failure, essentially lashing out at those whose 'honest views' were requested but apparently not really desired. It also came out that his rise to the papacy was very dishonest, straight from the mouth of those cardinals who did that dishonesty so that not an insignificant number began to doubt that his papacy was legitimate.

Look, I am the last person who would accuse a pope of anything bad, being as invested as I am in my faith, especially one as jolly as Pope Francis who has essentially managed to stem to an extent, the flow of extremely negative PR about the Catholic Church since the breakout of the abuse scandal. But honestly, I have only managed to remain Catholic by willfully ignoring all Catholic news especially that involves the shenanigans at the Vatican.

Here is my view: Intellectual inconsistency is my lie-detector. However nice a person seems. I don't believe God would require me to sacrifice reason for truth and the Church has always said as much. But this pope unabashedly demands that. With this pope, I have come dangerously close to the fideism I used to despise in order to retain the faith I love. I was gonna become Buddhist since its the only non-Christian religion that would allow me to retain my conviction in the specialness of Jesus (which is why I was Christian at all) without blowing up my brain with intellectual self-contradictions. I couldn't bring myself to do that though. Anyway, this has been a real crisis for me for a while now and you will not catch me involved in those religious debates any more. Not even to defend the Church from what I know to be lies told/believed by many about her, which are abundant. Pope Francis' reign put a crack in my world view and I think I have become those "little ones" who must believe without being "clever": essentially, blindly. It's the best I can do for now, but it also allows me not to think any other views are "clearly" wrong.

Anyway, hiyo tu. Please lets not have a debate about this. It's a very personal experience.

[Nefertiti]

Pundit,

Omollo already answered this: NASA agents were scared of Matiang'i... despite the presence of local & international press & observers... so they did not do their work They discarded their brand new camera phones and hoped the elections would be clean Many people are also certain Uhuru rigged the elections... as if Raila could not have done the same. The logic here is that Uhuru is the incumbent and was declared the winner. Short of a Chiloba confession how does anyone know this for sure? The ruling actually expressly absolved Uhuru. That Uhuru's lawyers sided with IEBC and opposed IT audit... as if he should have worked to undermine his own win. Commonsense for Uhuru was to side with the status quo... but to Kadame this apparently proves he rigged.

My surmise is that the polls were simply flawed - not rigged - and that NASA does in fact have images/copies of these same flawed forms in their custody which they cannot release to maintain the rigging propaganda. Orengo had 5K of these forms in court but none here has seen them. If they backed rigging claims they would be all over the net. Stories in the media about judges being offered bribes... all sources are anonymous

I could be wrong of course. I must wait for the detailed ruling to see what the judges think.

Show us one single form 34A that was original agreed and signed by NASA agents - and was later altered. You have 41k polling stations.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I know this is about siasa.  But just curious why you think Pope Francis comes across that way.  To me, he behaves like I would imagine Jesus would actually have behaved.  The Jesus I knew was not a judgmental kind of guy, put the pharisees in their place, embraced all sorts of taboo characters.  Francis comes across as genuine saintly material.

Hmm...this is a very personal and painful topic for me and I'd rather not discuss it, but....Yes, I understand how/why you would have that view and I respect him but for someone who was as invested in the truthfulness of the teachings of the Catholic Church above all as I was, Pope Francis has been as near a disaster as they come. Look, the pope is a nice chap. But he is also much more a politician than he is a Bishop. And he has around himself a group of cardinals who are what I can call PR geniuses with long-standing ties to the media who have made sure the pope remains a darling, which I don't mind at all. I don't want the pope needlessly attacked simply for being Catholic.


But the pope speaks with one end of his mouth to one audience and swiftly pulls another appearance when he is talking to an audience of Orthodox Catholics. Besides ancient people I only read about in historical accounts (with the attendant psychological distance that provides), pope Francis has honestly behaved in the most political ways as I have witnessed a pope do in my life time. He is not above underhanded tactics like setting up essentially fake discussions groups of Bishops to discuss a church issue and then using minions to deftly and in a very UN-transparent way attempt to manipulate the outcome in a manner I have only associated with politicians (and not those I consider the most honest), and then upon failure, essentially lashing out at those whose 'honest views' were requested but apparently not really desired. It also came out that his rise to the papacy was very dishonest, straight from the mouth of those cardinals who did that dishonesty so that not an insignificant number began to doubt that his papacy was legitimate.


Look, I am the last person who would accuse a pope of anything bad, being as invested as I am in my faith, especially one as jolly as Pope Francis who has essentially managed to stem to an extent, the flow of extremely negative PR about the Catholic Church since the breakout of the abuse scandal. But honestly, I have only managed to remain Catholic by willfully ignoring all Catholic news especially that involves the shenanigans at the Vatican.


Here is my view: Intellectual inconsistency is my lie-detector. However nice a person seems. I don't believe God would require me to sacrifice reason for truth and the Church has always said as much. But this pope unabashedly demands that. With this pope, I have come dangerously close to the fideism I used to despise in order to retain the faith I love. I was gonna become Buddhist since its the only non-Christian religion that would allow me to retain my conviction in the specialness of Jesus (which is why I was Christian at all) without blowing up my brain with intellectual self-contradictions. I couldn't bring myself to do that though. Anyway, this has been a real crisis for me for a while now and you will not catch me involved in those religious debates any more. Not even to defend the Church from what I know to be lies told/believed by many about her, which are abundant. Pope Francis' reign put a crack in my world view and I think I have become those "little ones" who must believe without being "clever": essentially, blindly. It's the best I can do for now, but it also allows me not to think any other views are "clearly" wrong.


Anyway, hiyo tu. Please lets not have a debate about this. It's a very personal experience.

I guess you see him as some sort of celebrity pope.  My intention was not to debate, but just to understand what's up, given what I knew about your faith.  Thanks for sharing.