Kenya's Mobile money marches on....

[RV Pundit]

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http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/Mobile-money-moves-Sh3-35trn-on-rising-phone-based-loans-uptake/539552-3830516-7mrs5n/index.html

[Globalcitizen12]

How do we invest ? My safari shares are still down

[gout]

[RV Pundit]

This is income per person. The international poverty line is 2usd per day per person. That comes to 60 dollars a month. So one man family can meet his basic needs with 200shs per day. Typical kenyan family with 5 members requires kshs 30,000 to barely survive.

[MOON Ki]

For vulnerable urban poor in slums like Kibera, Korogocho, Majengo and the uncaptured peasants in the rural areas this amount means living large. It is enough for school fees, clothing and medicine for a family of up to six.

Typical kenyan family with 5 members requires kshs 30,000 to barely survive

Living large in the slums doesn't seem to be an especially convincing sales line for an economic plan.  Nor does bare survival.   What is needed is a plan that will deliver much more. 

Interesting figures.    I'll skip questions about the quality of the accommodation, and, for simplicity, I'll assume a single person.    After rent for his spacious apartment, he has Sh. 2000 left for the month.   What are his costs for transportation, utilities, etc.?   What can he afford to spend leisure?   Etc.

[bryan275]

Android Pay, Samsung Pay , Apple pay and bitcoin will blow mpesa right out of the water.  Mpesa is too "localised" for today's connected world. 

[MOON Ki]

Android Pay, Samsung Pay , Apple pay and bitcoin will blow mpesa right out of the water.  Mpesa is too "localised" for today's connected world. 

MPESA looks great for countries with under-developed banking systems---of which there are many---and I don't see how these other systems would do much there.    Besides, taking something like Samsung Pay, what real advantage is there in being able to "tap" with a phone instead of a much thinner piece of plastic?

[bryan275]

For me the advantage is in consolidation of all my expenses to the dedicated expense account regardless of location.  It is quite pointless for me to register a simcard and an Mpesa account for the fortnight that I spend in Kenya every so often.  I have to consciously run down the account before departure just in case some Kamiti person empties it whilst I am away.

I run android pay locally and a prepaid mastercard whilst traveling abroad, both are topped up/charged to a bitcoin wallet.   All these are automated and Mpesa will be the last mile for me.   A trusted relative holds a prepaid KSH denominated mastercard that I can transfer bitcoint into avoiding the transfer fees and exchange rates to a degree.

Mpesa is only good for local transactions... we all need to look outwards...

[MOON Ki]

For me the advantage is in consolidation of all my expenses to the dedicated expense account regardless of location.  It is quite pointless for me to register a simcard and an Mpesa account for the fortnight that I spend in Kenya every so often.  I have to consciously run down the account before departure just in case some Kamiti person empties it whilst I am away.

But, surely, you can do all that with one plastic card.

I run android pay locally and a prepaid mastercard whilst traveling abroad, both are topped up/charged to a bitcoin wallet.   All these are automated and Mpesa will be the last mile for me.   A trusted relative holds a prepaid KSH denominated mastercard that I can transfer bitcoint into avoiding the transfer fees and exchange rates to a degree.

I assume "locally" is where you are, not Kenya.   What's the special advantage there of Android Pay?

Yes, to a degree; I'm not sure that exchange rates can be completely avoided with electronic transactions.   My way of dealing with exchange rates is to regularly monitor them and buy (and stock) currency when the rates are in my favour.   

I don't see how having a trusted relative hold a prepaid card for you is helps with the argument that Android pay and Bitcoin are especially useful.    More details, please. 

(I have never tried Bitcoin, and, after that Mt. Gox business, I won't until accounts come with hefty insurance.) 

[RV Pundit]

The winner will be payment platform that is as ubiquitous as cash. M-pesa is the nearest you've got at least in Kenya. Plastic cards or Android pay do not work everywhere including in UK or USA. People still have to carry cash. M-pesa I think it just few years from replacing the need to have cash at least in Kenya.

[hk]

The apple pay, paypal and the rest are just electronic credit cards as in they are connected to either debit or credit card. Mpesa is standalone platform that at least in Kenya one can operate without cash. A merchant has to wait for at least 24hrs for payment to be deposited while Mpesa Lipa na Mpesa its instant. And not to mention merchant fee for credit cards is at least 3% while Mpesa 1%. This are some of the advantages of Mpesa.
Bitcoin or a distributed ledger type system I suspect might do well in ERP systems. Exporters of produce in kenya can get their suppliers to key in data at every stage of production (from chemicals and fertilizer used) that would help in traceability EU regulations, as an example.

[MOON Ki]

The winner will be payment platform that is as ubiquitous as cash. M-pesa is the nearest you've got at least in Kenya. Plastic cards or Android pay do not work everywhere including in UK or USA. People still have to carry cash. M-pesa I think it just few years from replacing the need to have cash at least in Kenya.

There doesn't seem to be much to support that view.   This is from last year:

Despite the 87 per cent mobile penetration in Kenya and the widely acclaimed use of M-Pesa across major sectors of the economy, cash is still the main means of transactions, according to the latest survey.

Business people made 95 per cent of their transactions in cash while a similar percentage of casual labourers received payments in cash, the Finaccess survey shows.

Agriculture which comprises over 30 per cent of household incomes nationally had 93 per cent of transactions done in cash in the period under review.

http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/smartcompany/Most-Kenyans-still-use-cash-to-transact-Survey/-/1226/3088980/-/view/printVersion/-/k48kxw/-/index.html

Compare that with this:

Welcome to Sweden - the most cash-free society on the planet

Four out of five purchases are now made electronically in Sweden.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/11/welcome-sweden-electronic-money-not-so-funny

Or this:

Canadians use cash for only 10% of consumer payments and that figure is falling

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/economy/canada-is-ready-for-the-end-of-cash/

[RV Pundit]

Those % may not tell the whole story. Lipa na M-pesa once it become accepted by everyone - we will see the start of cashless society in kenya. Personally I use lipa na m-pesa for most transactions but have to keep some little cash for some few places that don't accept it. It would be interesting to see the growth of lipa na m-pesa...I have seen figures of 30% year on year...I can bet in 10yrs time...this may become the default payment.

The winner will be payment platform that is as ubiquitous as cash. M-pesa is the nearest you've got at least in Kenya. Plastic cards or Android pay do not work everywhere including in UK or USA. People still have to carry cash. M-pesa I think it just few years from replacing the need to have cash at least in Kenya.

There doesn't seem to be much to support that view.   This is from last year:

Despite the 87 per cent mobile penetration in Kenya and the widely acclaimed use of M-Pesa across major sectors of the economy, cash is still the main means of transactions, according to the latest survey.

Business people made 95 per cent of their transactions in cash while a similar percentage of casual labourers received payments in cash, the Finaccess survey shows.

Agriculture which comprises over 30 per cent of household incomes nationally had 93 per cent of transactions done in cash in the period under review.

http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/smartcompany/Most-Kenyans-still-use-cash-to-transact-Survey/-/1226/3088980/-/view/printVersion/-/k48kxw/-/index.html

Compare that with this:

Welcome to Sweden - the most cash-free society on the planet

Four out of five purchases are now made electronically in Sweden.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/11/welcome-sweden-electronic-money-not-so-funny

Or this:

Canadians use cash for only 10% of consumer payments and that figure is falling

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/economy/canada-is-ready-for-the-end-of-cash/

[bryan275]

Android pay and the tap and pay wireless debit card tap and pay system is convenient and fast.   Crucially, all transactions are recorded including small change sandwich buys etc. 

I can confidently say that my expenditure is 98% cashless.  I have more Kenyan shillings  and dollars at home than I have Sterling.

The advantage of the prepaid mastercard especially the one I travel with is that I can define multiple currencies (normally local to the country I am traveling to) and pay using local rates.  The main exchange rate will be the prevailing bitcoin exchange rate.  When I get back I just switch back to bit coin and wait for the next trip and do the same again.

The tap and pay contactless payments facilitated by android pay and now mastercard etc is that it negates the minimum transaction requirement, and authorisation is almost instant.  I now do not need to carry change for incidentals, not even car parking.

Generally speaking Bitcoin is my unoiversal currency and I switch to whatever currency as I please.  Also, due to the Mt Gox issues, I have a hardware bitcoin wallet (as USB dongle really) that is not connected to the internet, and only transfer out enough bitcoin as needed.  It is akin to keeping my bitcoins chini ya mattress.

MPesa, although a novel idea, is much too localised in Kenya for my liking.  Besides, the price increase in bitcoin has made it the best performing currency of 2016.  I wonder what interest if any Safcom pay to Mpesa account holders, last I heard they were hoarding 5 bob from everyone...




 

For me the advantage is in consolidation of all my expenses to the dedicated expense account regardless of location.  It is quite pointless for me to register a simcard and an Mpesa account for the fortnight that I spend in Kenya every so often.  I have to consciously run down the account before departure just in case some Kamiti person empties it whilst I am away.

But, surely, you can do all that with one plastic card.

I run android pay locally and a prepaid mastercard whilst traveling abroad, both are topped up/charged to a bitcoin wallet.   All these are automated and Mpesa will be the last mile for me.   A trusted relative holds a prepaid KSH denominated mastercard that I can transfer bitcoint into avoiding the transfer fees and exchange rates to a degree.

I assume "locally" is where you are, not Kenya.   What's the special advantage there of Android Pay?

Yes, to a degree; I'm not sure that exchange rates can be completely avoided with electronic transactions.   My way of dealing with exchange rates is to regularly monitor them and buy (and stock) currency when the rates are in my favour.   

I don't see how having a trusted relative hold a prepaid card for you is helps with the argument that Android pay and Bitcoin are especially useful.    More details, please. 

(I have never tried Bitcoin, and, after that Mt. Gox business, I won't until accounts come with hefty insurance.) 

[MOON Ki]

Android pay and the tap and pay wireless debit card tap and pay system is convenient and fast.   Crucially, all transactions are recorded including small change sandwich buys etc. 

I can confidently say that my expenditure is 98% cashless.  I have more Kenyan shillings  and dollars at home than I have Sterling.

Mine too is close to that.   But it doesn't require Android Pay, Samsung Pay, or any other kind of Pay. In almost all places, a debit card will do.    That's why I don't understand your complicated system of this-and-that-Pay, Mastercard, and Bitcoin thrown in for good measure.   Seems unnecessarily complicated.     

The advantage of the prepaid mastercard especially the one I travel with is that I can define multiple currencies (normally local to the country I am traveling to) and pay using local rates.  The main exchange rate will be the prevailing bitcoin exchange rate.  When I get back I just switch back to bit coin and wait for the next trip and do the same again.

I'm not convinced that there is necessarily a benefit there.     Let's say you buy your prepaid thing or bitcoin thing at a rate of US$1 = KSH 100.   At the time you arrive in Nyalunga, the rate is US$1 = KSH 120.  Would you have been better off just carrying dollars in your pocket?  The fact that the prepaid is in the local currency and that things are paid for in the local currency does not make one immune to the vagaries of exchange rates.  Am I missing something here?

The tap and pay contactless payments facilitated by android pay and now mastercard etc is that it negates the minimum transaction requirement, and authorisation is almost instant.  I now do not need to carry change for incidentals, not even car parking.

I don't understand why you are so focused on Android Pay and Mastercard when it comes to tap-and-pay contactless (or with contact) payment.    What so special bout  them?   Almost all places with a good banking system have tap-and-pay  for just about any kind of card, and cards don't come more basic than the good, old-fashioned debit card.   

I also don't understand this "minimum transaction requirement"".   Retailers are free to impose whatever they like, but I  don't see it as something to do with the card itself.

Generally speaking Bitcoin is my universal currency and I switch to whatever currency as I please. 

Fair enough.  But are you sure that somebody is not taking a slice (however small) off the top when you switch currencies?  And are you sure that you are really ahead of those who rely on more traditional methods for currency changes?

MPesa, although a novel idea, is much too localised in Kenya for my liking. 

True.   But it looks great for Kenya and places with similar banking systems. (RV Pundit is quite right---MPESA has been fantastic in Kenya---although he over-estimates its worth and confuses the convenience of easy money transfers with the need for solutions to more fundamental problems.)

Besides, the price increase in bitcoin has made it the best performing currency of 2016. 

Looks like it.   And how much of the world's currency is in bitcoins?    The world is full of money-hungry people.   How many are rushing into "the best performing currency"?   

To my mind, the best thing---and probably the only thing of real lasting value---of bitcoins is the idea of "crypto-currency".   That will be taken up by many others, but my guess is that Bitcoin is too "damaged" for that (Mt. Gox).

[Empedocles]

Safaricom shouldn't just vehemently deny the allegations. Sonko bragged about it: 

Ok, maybe not a quarter. 

KRA customs uses mpesa to receive bribes. They give, depending on the amount agreed upon, different numbers where the bribe can be sent in batches. These guys own tons of number, each "properly" registered with a different name.

Anyone remember this, from the police vetting: . The guy earns a KShs.45k monthly salary.