The Lord's Day

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I have noticed that every Sunday, a sermon is posted here ending with a line like 'have a happy Lord's Day.' But what is the Lord's Day? The assumption is that the Lord's Day is Sunday, and that Sunday is the Sabbath day of worship.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Sunday is neither the Sabbath nor the Lord's Day. Next time somebody comes here to post happy Lord's Day, let him or her know that the truth lies elsewhere. Read more here. http://www.truthontheweb.org/cthlcmrr.htm

[vooke]

Am glad you Worship on Sunday

I have noticed that every Sunday, a sermon is posted here ending with a line like 'have a happy Lord's Day.' But what is the Lord's Day? The assumption is that the Lord's Day is Sunday, and that Sunday is the Sabbath day of worship.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Sunday is neither the Sabbath nor the Lord's Day. Next time somebody comes here to post happy Lord's Day, let him or her know that the truth lies elsewhere. Read more here. http://www.truthontheweb.org/cthlcmrr.htm

[GeeMail]

Excerpts.
"Numerically considered, the Seventh-day Adventists form an insignificant portion of the Protestant population of the earth, but, as the question is not one of numbers, but of truth, fact, and right, a strict sense of justice forbids the condemnation of this little sect without a calm and unbiased investigation: this is none of our funeral."

"Let the Bible decide whether Saturday or Sunday be the day enjoined by God. One of the two bodies must be wrong, and , whereas a false position on this all-important question involves terrible penalties, threatened by God Himself, against the transgressor of this "perpetual covenant," we shall enter on the discussion of the merits of the arguments wielded by both sides. Neither is the discussion of this paramount subject above the capacity of ordinary minds, nor does it involve extraordinary study. It resolves itself into a few plain questions easy of solution:

1st. Which day of the week does the Bible enjoin to be kept holy?

2nd. Has the New Testament modified by precept or practice the original command?

3rd. Have Protestants, since the sixteenth century, obeyed the command of God

by keeping "holy" the day enjoined by their infallible guide and teacher, the Bible? and if not, why not?

To the above three questions, we pledge ourselves to furnish as many intelligent answers, which cannot fail to vindicate the truth and uphold the deformity of error."

[vooke]

The Lord's Day is the First day of the Week

Your assignment for the week is to study the use of this phrase in the entire scriptures (hint: it is used ONCE) and outside for the first 500 years of Christendom. If it has EVER been used to refer to ANY other day apart from Sunday, I will leave this place for good 

You can start here;
http://m.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/the-lords-day.html
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1469-lords-day-the
https://www.gci.org/law/sabbath/hanson

Excerpts.
"Numerically considered, the Seventh-day Adventists form an insignificant portion of the Protestant population of the earth, but, as the question is not one of numbers, but of truth, fact, and right, a strict sense of justice forbids the condemnation of this little sect without a calm and unbiased investigation: this is none of our funeral."

"Let the Bible decide whether Saturday or Sunday be the day enjoined by God. One of the two bodies must be wrong, and , whereas a false position on this all-important question involves terrible penalties, threatened by God Himself, against the transgressor of this "perpetual covenant," we shall enter on the discussion of the merits of the arguments wielded by both sides. Neither is the discussion of this paramount subject above the capacity of ordinary minds, nor does it involve extraordinary study. It resolves itself into a few plain questions easy of solution:

1st. Which day of the week does the Bible enjoin to be kept holy?

2nd. Has the New Testament modified by precept or practice the original command?

3rd. Have Protestants, since the sixteenth century, obeyed the command of God

by keeping "holy" the day enjoined by their infallible guide and teacher, the Bible? and if not, why not?

To the above three questions, we pledge ourselves to furnish as many intelligent answers, which cannot fail to vindicate the truth and uphold the deformity of error."

[GeeMail]

If you're referring to Rev 1:10, you had better sign a will on your way out. But you need not do so, just accept that your belief is mistaken. Show from scripture that Sunday is indeed the Lord's Day. Then show how that means it is the Sabbath.

In Rome's challenge, Catholics have rightly shown that from Genesis to Revelation there is an express command followed by Jesus, the disciples and the early church to keep the Sabbath holy. The Sabbath never changed from Saturday. Only they changed it to Sunday with no biblical basis. Read the document (ordinary minds can comprehend the argument). It says if you are protestant and claim to follow the Bible, become Seventh day Adventist or simply quit and become Catholic.

[GeeMail]

More excerpts from Rome's challenge (these guys were thorough).

"Examining the New Testament from cover to cover, critically, we find the Sabbath referred to sixty-one times. We find, too, that the Saviour invariably selected the Sabbath (Saturday) to teach in the synagogues and work miracles. The four Gospels refer to the Sabbath (Saturday) fifty-one times.

In one instance the Redeemer refers to Himself as "the Lord of the Sabbath," as mentioned by Matthew and Luke, but during the whole record of His life, whilst invariably keeping and utilizing the day (Saturday). He never once hinted at a desire to change it. His apostles and personal friends afford to us a striking instance of their scrupulous observance of it after His death, and, whilst His body was yet in the tomb, Luke (23:56) informs us: "And they returned and prepared spices and ointments and rested on the Sabbath day according to the commandment." "But on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came, bringing the spices they had prepared Good Friday evening, because the Sabbath drew near." Verse 54. This action on the part of the personal friends of the Saviour, proves beyond contradiction that after His death they kept "holy" the Saturday and regarded the Sunday as any other day of the week. Can anything, therefore, be more conclusive than that the apostles and the holy women never knew any Sabbath but Saturday, up to the day of Christ's death?"

[vooke]

Sunday is not Saturday, hallo
Sunday is Lord's Day.
We can shift the burden till Investigative Judgement is over. Prove it is NOT

If you're referring to Rev 1:10, you had better sign a will on your way out. But you need not do so, just accept that your belief is mistaken. Show from scripture that Sunday is indeed the Lord's Day. Then show how that means it is the Sabbath.

In Rome's challenge, Catholics have rightly shown that from Genesis to Revelation there is an express command followed by Jesus, the disciples and the early church to keep the Sabbath holy. The Sabbath never changed from Saturday. Only they changed it to Sunday with no biblical basis. Read the document (ordinary minds can comprehend the argument). It says if you are protestant and claim to follow the Bible, become Seventh day Adventist or simply quit and become Catholic.

[vooke]

Saturday is and has always been Saturday whereas Sunday has always remained Sunday. Who said that Saturday changed to Sunday?

Sabbath was observed on Saturday. Why should it be observed on any other day ?

More excerpts from Rome's challenge (these guys were thorough).

"Examining the New Testament from cover to cover, critically, we find the Sabbath referred to sixty-one times. We find, too, that the Saviour invariably selected the Sabbath (Saturday) to teach in the synagogues and work miracles. The four Gospels refer to the Sabbath (Saturday) fifty-one times.

In one instance the Redeemer refers to Himself as "the Lord of the Sabbath," as mentioned by Matthew and Luke, but during the whole record of His life, whilst invariably keeping and utilizing the day (Saturday). He never once hinted at a desire to change it. His apostles and personal friends afford to us a striking instance of their scrupulous observance of it after His death, and, whilst His body was yet in the tomb, Luke (23:56) informs us: "And they returned and prepared spices and ointments and rested on the Sabbath day according to the commandment." "But on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came, bringing the spices they had prepared Good Friday evening, because the Sabbath drew near." Verse 54. This action on the part of the personal friends of the Saviour, proves beyond contradiction that after His death they kept "holy" the Saturday and regarded the Sunday as any other day of the week. Can anything, therefore, be more conclusive than that the apostles and the holy women never knew any Sabbath but Saturday, up to the day of Christ's death?"

[GeeMail]

Please show from scripture how Sunday became the Lord's day and where scripture tells believers to observe Sunday. Do you want to make a suicidal argument?

Further excerpt.
"Having disposed of every text to be found in the New Testament referring to the Sabbath (Saturday), and to the first day of the week (Sunday); and having shown conclusively from these texts, that, so far, not a shadow of pretext can be found in the Sacred Volume for the Biblical substitution of Sunday for Saturday; it only remains for us to investigate the meaning of the expressions "Lord's Day," and "day of the Lord," to be found in the New Testament, which we propose to do in our next article, and conclude with apposite remarks on the incongruities of a system of religion which we shall have proved to be indefensible, self-contradictory, and suicidal."

[GeeMail]

Further excerpting (these Catholics were serious!)
"The eighth text, 2 Peter 3:12; "Waiting for and hastening unto the coming of the day of the Lord, by which the heavens being on fire, shall be dissolved." etc. This day of the Lord is the same referred to in the previous text, the application of both of which to Sunday next would have left the Christian world sleepless the next Saturday night.

We have presented to our readers eight of the nine texts relied on to bolster up by text of Scripture the sacrilegious effort to palm off the "Lord's day" for Sunday, and with what result? Each furnishes prima facie evidence of the last day, referring to it directly, absolutely, and unequivocally.

The ninth text wherein we meet the expression "the Lord's day," is the last to be found in the apostolic writings. The Apocalypse, or Revelation, chapter 1:10, furnishes it in the following words of St. John: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day;" but it will afford no more comfort to our Biblical friends than its predecessors of the same series. Has St. John used the expression previously in his Gospel or Epistles?--Emphatically, No. Has he had occasion to refer to Sunday hitherto?--Yes, twice. How did he designate Sunday on these occasions? Easter Sunday was called by him (John 20:1) "The first day of the week."

[vooke]

Sunday is the Lord's Day. Prove it is not or prove what OTHER day has ever been referred to by that. We be juggling burden of proof till White resurrects to her damnation


What do you mean by 'observe Sunday'?

Please show from scripture how Sunday became the Lord's day and where scripture tells believers to observe Sunday. Do you want to make a suicidal argument?

Further excerpt.
"Having disposed of every text to be found in the New Testament referring to the Sabbath (Saturday), and to the first day of the week (Sunday); and having shown conclusively from these texts, that, so far, not a shadow of pretext can be found in the Sacred Volume for the Biblical substitution of Sunday for Saturday; it only remains for us to investigate the meaning of the expressions "Lord's Day," and "day of the Lord," to be found in the New Testament, which we propose to do in our next article, and conclude with apposite remarks on the incongruities of a system of religion which we shall have proved to be indefensible, self-contradictory, and suicidal."

[vooke]

Confusion galore

Revelation 1:10 (KJV)
 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

Can we therefore conclude that the DAY OF THE LORD happened in ~96AD?

Further excerpting (these Catholics were serious!)
"The eighth text, 2 Peter 3:12; "Waiting for and hastening unto the coming of the day of the Lord, by which the heavens being on fire, shall be dissolved." etc. This day of the Lord is the same referred to in the previous text, the application of both of which to Sunday next would have left the Christian world sleepless the next Saturday night.

We have presented to our readers eight of the nine texts relied on to bolster up by text of Scripture the sacrilegious effort to palm off the "Lord's day" for Sunday, and with what result? Each furnishes prima facie evidence of the last day, referring to it directly, absolutely, and unequivocally.

The ninth text wherein we meet the expression "the Lord's day," is the last to be found in the apostolic writings. The Apocalypse, or Revelation, chapter 1:10, furnishes it in the following words of St. John: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day;" but it will afford no more comfort to our Biblical friends than its predecessors of the same series. Has St. John used the expression previously in his Gospel or Epistles?--Emphatically, No. Has he had occasion to refer to Sunday hitherto?--Yes, twice. How did he designate Sunday on these occasions? Easter Sunday was called by him (John 20:1) "The first day of the week."

[GeeMail]

Further excerpting.
"Nor are the strongest intrinsic grounds wanting to prove that this like its sister texts, contains the same meaning, St. John (Rev. 1:10) says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day;" but he furnishes us the key to this expression, chapter four, first and second verses; "After this I looked and behold a door was opened in heaven." A voice said to him; "Come up hither, and I will show you the things which must be hereafter," Let us ascend in spirit with John. Whither?--through that "door in heaven," to heaven. a And what shall we see?--"The things that must be hereafter," Chapter four, first verse. He ascended in spirit to heaven. He was ordered to write, in full, his vision of what is to take place antecedent to and concomitantly with, "the Lord's day," or the day of judgment; the expression "Lords day" being confined in Scripture to the day of judgment, exclusively."

Broken down. John was in the spirit on the Lord's day (no indication of it being Sunday as alleged by 'Protestants' today). In Rev 4, we see him taken before the throne of judgment. So, following the script, believers appear before the judgment throne every Sunday (assuming it was indeed the day John was taken up)?

Where is your proof that Sunday is the Lord's day referred to here? You deride Catholics, but here they provide solid proof that Sunday is not that day. I'll slowly watch as you shift your suicidal argument.

[vooke]

Lord's Day=Day of the Lord=96AD....Lord Have Mercy

Unless no until you wriggle out of that, I have no more Wisdom for you

Further excerpting.
"Nor are the strongest intrinsic grounds wanting to prove that this like its sister texts, contains the same meaning, St. John (Rev. 1:10) says: "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day;" but he furnishes us the key to this expression, chapter four, first and second verses; "After this I looked and behold a door was opened in heaven." A voice said to him; "Come up hither, and I will show you the things which must be hereafter," Let us ascend in spirit with John. Whither?--through that "door in heaven," to heaven. a And what shall we see?--"The things that must be hereafter," Chapter four, first verse. He ascended in spirit to heaven. He was ordered to write, in full, his vision of what is to take pla

[GeeMail]

Most Christians worship on Sunday, every Sunday, thinking it is the scriptural Sabbath (or to stretch the argument, the Lord's day). No scriptural basis whatsoever. To argue that the Lord's Day refers to Sunday because the expression has not been used to refer to any other day is a cyclical argument in a vacuum. The argument is suicidal considering that the Bible has ample proof that the Sabbath is Saturday, from OT to NT.

Rome's challenge is a big threat to Protestantism as we know it today from two major arguments. First, protestants argue that the Bible is their only basis for doctrine. The popular doctrine of Sunday worship has no scriptural basis. None, nada.

Second, the proponent of the challenge is the Catholic church. Not only has the Catholic church changed the numbering of the commandments (the Sabbath commandment is third in their arrangement) but they have authoritatively and unequivocally claimed the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and clearly saying they have done it without scriptural backing. To observe Sunday like they do is to accept papal or Catholic authority over the church, hence no basis for claiming to be protestant. Stating it from their own words, it is extremely hypocritical to worship on Sunday while pretending to protest against the Catholic church. For consistency, either become Catholic or Adventist.

[Ka-Bella]

@Daily Bread, I have no interest in this debate but I registered this latest handle just to clarify something. I confess to not having read all your excerpts but am I right in thinking that you are claimimng that the Catholic Church says/teaches that Sunday is NOT the Lord's day, the one referred to in Revelation? That would be news to me since that is exactly what I was taught (Sunday is "the Lord's day" of Revelation). Please refer to this encyclical by the late Pope John Paul II: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html  Note: The title itself (Dies Domini) is latin for "the Lord's day" and refers to Sunday in that letter. I also found the same information in the official Catholic Catechism (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm ), the online Encyclopedia from 1911 (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13287b.htm   AND  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm ) and EWTN too.

So I am quite shocked by this claim that the Catholic Church supports the Adventist denial of the Lord's day being Sunday. When did this convergence of opinion occur? That article you site is supposed to be from the late 19th century and its tone is highly polemical and not academic at all, not to mention it's an article presumably by one person on a newspaper, hardly authoritative by any means, assuming it is what it claims to be, that is, (an article by a Catholic and not an Adventist apologist arguing against Protestants who dont do the saturday thing)...Who is its author, for example?

By all indications, Sunday was called "the Lord's day" in the earliest Christian centuries on account of Christ having risen on that day. There is also no confusion of the Jewish Sabbath and the Christian "Lord's day" which is the day of the resurrection. They are understood as marking different truths/events. The sabbath celebrates God's first great work (creation) while Sunday celebrates the second (redemption of that creation after it was fallen).

The history of how early Jewish Christians came to stop attending Synagogue on Saturday is long, but in summary, they were excommunicated for blasphemy (claiming Jesus is God and Messiah) by their fellow Jews sometime in the late first century and stopped attending Synagogue with them. There ended Christianity's formal marking of the Sabbath. Before then, ONLY Christian Jews (not Christian gentiles) had gone to Synagogue on Saturday with the other non-Christian Jews, just like they had always done since before they became Christian. On Sunday, they met with other Christians, a chunk of whom were not Jewish and who never ever went to Synagogue on Saturday like their Jewish brethren.

Having clarified that, and given links, I will take my leave.

[GeeMail]

Ka-Bella, that article in the Catholic Mirror is authentic. There are numerous sources of "Rome's Challenge" all over the web and none challenge its authenticity. Indeed, the references made in the article are historical events (like the boycott of the World's Fair that led to it's publication). Gibbons (1834-1921) referred to also existed as a Catholic official at the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gibbons.

It is not surprising that you are shocked by what the articles say. Catholic doctrine on the Sabbath has shifted with time. At the time of writing the article (they are three of them in Rome's Challenge), the Catholic church spoke with certainty that the Sabbath was changed. The church no longer referred to Saturday as the Sabbath but to Sunday. Pope John Paul II referred to Sunday as the Sabbath numerous times in his encyclicals. Popes after him do the same. Trace the change from the Nicene Council (320s) and the Roman emperor who joined Christians at that time.

So what was the point of writing the article in the 1830s? It was to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the protestants who reject papal authority while imbibing in its Sunday doctrine. The Catholic church clearly says that without scriptural authority, it transferred solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. The point was that the Catholic church has authority to change God's law (erroneous of course), and sola scriptura is a strawman because Protestants accept Sunday worship which is nowhere mandated in the Bible. The Catholic Mirror shows that contrarywise, Saturday is the Sabbath and has remained so over the course of time, as demonstrated by the unbroken link of Jewish Sabbath keeping.

Many Catholics do not know that their church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Many protestants are also in ignorance of that fact.

As to what the early church fathers believed or practiced, a lot can be said. Apostles kept Saturday as the Sabbath (the Catholic Mirror articles state as much, and they quote several verses). The popular adoption of Sunday as the Lord's Day was at first a reference to the resurrection and then to John's vision (which again the Catholic Mirror rightly shows is erroneous). Those who oppose the keeping of the Sabbath commandment have drawn all sorts of defenses but the Catholic Mirror article shows the folly with solid scriptural backing.

If you follow the posts here, no scriptural backing for Sunday worship is offered except the spurious claim that the Lord's Day is Sunday. The Catholic Mirror thoroughly debunks that claim. There is simply no scriptural backing.

In effect, having changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, the Catholic church popularized Sunday worship. At some point in history, people worshiped on Saturday and Sunday. Afterwards, they shifted the debate and started calling Sunday the Sabbath. That is the position that retains to date.

The articles in the Catholic Mirror show there was no confusion about what the true Sabbath was. It refutes your argument in the last para about Jews and the formal marking of the Sabbath.

Adventists have ample proof of the sanctity of the Sabbath (Saturday) and the falsity of Sunday worship. We quote Catholic documents like the Catholic Mirror to avoid unnecessary controversy over sources and authenticity.

Google "Who Changed the Sabbath Day" for more answers. One of them is here.
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-resources/article-library/id/916/catholic-church-admits-they-made-the-change

[GeeMail]

Having made the point about the origin of Sunday worship and that majority of Christians have no idea, I want to say that knowing which is the true Sabbath is not enough. You must make a choice. Many Sabbath keepers may still miss the heavenly kingdom just like the Sabbath-keeping Pharisees rejected Christ. In the same manner, many Sunday keepers may be in heaven because they obeyed God in the light they had.

Luke 12
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

God calls us to faithful obedience with the light that we have. Now that you know which is the true Sabbath, the choice is yours to make. Either follow the traditions and suppositions of men, or what the Lord says.

[Ka-Bella]

@Daily Bread,

Its being "authentic" still means very little as far as your claim that "the Catholic Church" taught. What is your authority for such a claim? I assure you the Catholic church does not teach through newspapers or debates or apologia. The tone of that article is highly polemical, showing that it was an article by a catholic apologist (polemicist) at best intended to donothing more than chide Protestants. To state from that "the Catholic Church" taught whatever is to be seriously misled. You want to know what the catholic church taught "at that time" you dont look forrandom writings of lay apologists trying to score a point against their protestant rivals on informal sources. Please observe debates AMONG catholics (against each other) to know what exactlly it means to make such claims (that the Church has taught something). You want to know what the Church has taught at any time, look for catechisms, encyclicals, and documents of ecumenical councils, even SOME writings of Bishops and doctors of the church (fathers too, of course) are a much better source (where there is unanimity). For example, you say "it's authentic", but who is its author? That may mean little to you but to a catholic it's the difference between a rumour of the broken telephone game and an established fact. You realize that article is no more than a 19th century version of a nipate debate between you and myself?

[Ka-Bella]

Also, you say no scriptural backing exists for sunday worship when the New Testament records Christians meeting daily for Eucharist and on Sunday too when they are told to collect money for the poor. Moreover, St. Paul whom you cite blatantly rubishes the fixation with keeping those feasts and explicilty mentions sabbath. In his travels, in Acts, St. Paul only went to the Synagogue in every new city (mission) to present the Gospel. When they refused, he stopped going and concentrated on the gentiles who didnt care for the Jewish sabbath. That shows clearly his sole interest in going to the synagogue on saturday was to convert Jews, not attending the Sabbath, just like when he went to the Temple later on and circumcised Timothy.

You also say there was no explicit order to change it from Saturday in scripture, but when was it ESTABLISHED for Christians in scripture in the first place, in order for it to be switched, as you claim? When were Christians commanded to worship like the Jews? The Apostles sat down in a council whose proceedings are summarily recorded in Acts 15, discussing the whole matter of which aspects of Jewish law were required to be kept by Gentiles who became Christians. They came up with no more than four rules for Gentile Christians to follow as a must...nothing there about going to church on Saturday, something which gentiles would have certainly required explicit instruction in, seeing as it was not at all their custom but a Jewish custom, just like circmcision? Later, the Apostles give them further instruction (and even contradicted some of these rules of the Jerusalem council) on christian life, morals and worship through epistles and oral teachings, nothing there at all about a duty of Christians to worship on Saturday, either. How come?