Author Topic: Azimio presidential petition superthread  (Read 40285 times)

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2022, 01:11:40 PM »
The first Respondent has responded and disowned the election.  Ruto now needs to let go of this one.  Mambo kwisha.


IEBC Civil War. Who is to act for IEBC? Chebukati or Majority Commissioners?

I'd really hate to be the SCOK right now. I hope there's no SCOK civil war.

Also, Brian, are you sure this is real? Be wary of Kenyans. They spread a lot of fake docs on Twitter.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2022, 01:12:22 PM »
You mean the four rogue commissioners met and became IEBC.
The first Respondent has responded and disowned the election.  Ruto now needs to let go of this one.  Mambo kwisha.


Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2022, 01:19:29 PM »
Interesting week. I have dedicated the entire week to just watch the drama unfold. It will be historic.
The four rogue commissioners and Uhuru deep state definitely determine to create a constitutional crisis.

For Ruto I think he need to focus on getting 3 supreme court judges to sit it out  -  SCORK need a quorom of 5 judges.

 
The first Respondent has responded and disowned the election.  Ruto now needs to let go of this one.  Mambo kwisha.


IEBC Civil War. Who is to act for IEBC? Chebukati or Majority Commissioners?

I'd really hate to be the SCOK right now. I hope there's no SCOK civil war.

Also, Brian, are you sure this is real? Be wary of Kenyans. They spread a lot of fake docs on Twitter.

IEBC Civil War. Who is to act for IEBC? Chebukati or Majority Commissioners?

I'd really hate to be the SCOK right now. I hope there's no SCOK civil war.

Offline gout

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2022, 01:34:08 PM »
The cries about hacking, servers and systems have no place in presidential election as per the law. The physical Form 34As are the alpha and omega of the election.

The first Respondent has responded and disowned the election.  Ruto now needs to let go of this one.  Mambo kwisha.

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2022, 01:48:31 PM »
I am on page 15 of Chebukati petition - and already I dont think see how Azimio can survive this.

Chebukati has meticiously destroyed the deep state and raila - by tying their actions together.

Raila in his petitions is silent on the main partner - Uhuru kenyatta - the Azimio Chairman role in the whole fracas.

Offline audacityofhope

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2022, 02:25:46 PM »
Standard of proof will be the "balance of probabilities" ...

Offline bryan274

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2022, 02:27:55 PM »
My position on hacking is this:

1)  It is obvious that Chebukati allowed misuse of IT equipment by both his staff and strangers to the IEBC
2) Form 34As were doctored both at the polling station as well as along and all the way to Bomas. 

With this in mind:  I believe that the systems were NOT hacked, but the physical election was.  This is why the KKA crew do not want anyone to go back into the ballot boxes, or trace the form 34As back to the polling stations. 


The cries about hacking, servers and systems have no place in presidential election as per the law. The physical Form 34As are the alpha and omega of the election.

The first Respondent has responded and disowned the election.  Ruto now needs to let go of this one.  Mambo kwisha.


Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2022, 02:29:57 PM »
The first Respondent has responded and disowned the election.  Ruto now needs to let go of this one.  Mambo kwisha.

Bryan, where did you get this response? I'm not sure I believe its authenticity because the Chebukati team delivered docs/evidence yesterday on behalf of IEBC? Is SCOK accepting both? Well, I guess they can do that while waiting for the SCOK to decide on who is legitimately acting for IEBC. This reminds me of the crisis at the Law Society last year.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2022, 02:30:25 PM »
It would be nicer if you share the whole affidavit.
Standard of proof will be the "balance of probabilities" ...

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2022, 02:32:48 PM »
The most tortured argument of the day. I dont think it's practical to get ballot boxes from 290 warehouses and recount the ballots. Maybe to fish the sealed copy 34As - that still daunting task for a week. As for physical form 34As - the Supreme Court - have been given certified copies. They can order retallying. There were more than 15 independent tallies done - all came to same - Ruto had won by 50.05%.
My position on hacking is this:

1)  It is obvious that Chebukati allowed misuse of IT equipment by both his staff and strangers to the IEBC
2) Form 34As were doctored both at the polling station as well as along and all the way to Bomas. 

With this in mind:  I believe that the systems were NOT hacked, but the physical election was.  This is why the KKA crew do not want anyone to go back into the ballot boxes, or trace the form 34As back to the polling stations. 

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2022, 02:33:16 PM »
It would be nicer if you share the whole affidavit.
Standard of proof will be the "balance of probabilities" ...

Is that an affidavit or an amicus brief/opinion?

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2022, 02:36:01 PM »
Look like Amicus - I agree with on standard of proof (although the 14 days hearing definitely did not anticipate the supreme court examining thousands of documents and conducting a trial) - and also agree that Maina Kia settle that Chebukati job was simple - verify the authenticity of original form 34As and just add them up - note any discrepancy - but do nothing more than that. SIMPLE JOB chebukati had.
Is that an affidavit or an amicus brief/opinion?

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2022, 02:38:09 PM »
Can the four commissioner meet under a tree and conduct IEBC proceedings. I doubt. I think they are rules - CEO of secretariat is the secretary and takes minutes. They have to be proper meeting. So these are desperate measures to dirty the waters and make the work of SCORK impossible.
Bryan, where did you get this response? I'm not sure I believe its authenticity because the Chebukati team delivered docs/evidence yesterday on behalf of IEBC? Is SCOK accepting both? Well, I guess they can do that while waiting for the SCOK to decide on who is legitimately acting for IEBC. This reminds me of the crisis at the Law Society last year.

Offline audacityofhope

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2022, 02:53:13 PM »
Find it attached to my original post
It would be nicer if you share the whole affidavit.
Standard of proof will be the "balance of probabilities" ...

Offline audacityofhope

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2022, 02:55:39 PM »
Look like Amicus - I agree with on standard of proof (although the 14 days hearing definitely did not anticipate the supreme court examining thousands of documents and conducting a trial) - and also agree that Maina Kia settle that Chebukati job was simple - verify the authenticity of original form 34As and just add them up - note any discrepancy - but do nothing more than that. SIMPLE JOB chebukati had.
Is that an affidavit or an amicus brief/opinion?
Amicus brief.
I have attached the complete amicus brief to my original post.

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2022, 03:02:25 PM »
Can the four commissioner meet under a tree and conduct IEBC proceedings. I doubt. I think they are rules - CEO of secretariat is the secretary and takes minutes. They have to be proper meeting. So these are desperate measures to dirty the waters and make the work of SCORK impossible.
Bryan, where did you get this response? I'm not sure I believe its authenticity because the Chebukati team delivered docs/evidence yesterday on behalf of IEBC? Is SCOK accepting both? Well, I guess they can do that while waiting for the SCOK to decide on who is legitimately acting for IEBC. This reminds me of the crisis at the Law Society last year.

Their rules say they only need 3 for a meeting, 4 for Commission actions. But you need to read the regulations in full to know for sure (which I haven't, I only read it last week in part during quorum debate).

But this is not a simple technicality because of the unique circumstances of the moment, so the Court will have to rule on it.

Bottom line for me is that OUR CONSTITUTION is inadequately designed to resolve all these burgeoning crises. If Donald Korir is right, and that law he cites is still active, it means we also have no acting IG because even Uhuru cannot appoint Matiangi as Kipkorir is demanding, no matter what that law prescribes. SCOK is not Jesus, how are they supposed to resolve all these things? If I were them, I'd find a quick solution to the singular question of the disputed election declaration only. After that, let people take questions to lower courts to resolve the other Constitutional questions.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2022, 03:20:53 PM »
Thanks. I wonder why they want court to go back to decision settled in 2013 and 2017 on rejected/spoilt ballots...except that LSK are supporting Raila..and see opportunity to force a re-run using rejected ballots.

How would we know what is protest vote, what is ballot that wasnt stamped, or where someone vote twice, or etc.

And beside why didnt they go for advisory opinion long before this election - if indeed they are interested in rejected or spoilt vote.

 Standard of proof - this civil case - not a criminal trial  - so SCORK judges should restrict themselves to form 34As, ballots, counting and such arithmetics - and direct all the rest of fitinas from both camps be directed to relevant authoritizes.

On IEBC/Chebukati - joint duty doesnt mean IEBC commissioners - it means IEBC as a whole - from clerks, pos, cros, national tallying clerks and finally PO. IEBC commisioners have no specific role on election except on policy/guideline issues.


Find it attached to my original post

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2022, 03:27:14 PM »
The commission and the secretariat. The commission as far I can tell deal with policy issues. The secretariat deal with operation. How meetings are conducted, how lawyers are hired, and all that I guess is more complicated than four commissioners meeting under a tree, and deciding as the majority. I assume they are procedures for all that...including calling a formal meeting. I assume they are also powers that Chebukati has the chair has, power the CEO has, and then commissioners. Check and balance to avoid rogue people transacting IEBC business in a forest. I assume for example the Chairperson calls the meeting.

SCORK in 2017 dug their hole by going into IEBC processes - hence the petition are becoming more and more complicated and detailed - unlike 2013 where Mutunga nailed it.

SCORK have to go back to constitution and realize the 14 days were deliberate - presidential election are not stuff that are to played with - or annualing them should be rare very rare - unless it's TOTALLY MESSED UP - SCORK should have refused the invite to audit IEBC processes.

SCORK should focus on the real stuff - ballots, paper trail, agent copies, observer copies, open the ballots - like Mutunga did in 2013 - and avoid temptation to go into black hole without an end where people are making outrageous allegations - and you have 14 days to examine truck loads.

Election is simple...people went to their polling station and voted..votes counted...result submitted to Chebukati and CRO. Raila give us evidence of ALL POLLING STATIONS THAT WERE RIGGED. Chebukati bring all the forms where allegation are. Ruto bring your evidence only on those polling stations. If they are serious dispute - open ballots, summon POS, CROS - of specific pollign stations

In fact SCORK should issue a prescribed form - where Raila fills all the polling stations he is disputing their results -- he surely cannot dispute results in Luo Nyanza or maybe he will - let him indicate what the nature of dispute in those polling station are - numbers deducted- similar to IEBC error or discrepancy report.

The 2nd part of Uhuru temporary incumbency doesnt belong to this thread. It's clear Uhuru cannot appoint anybody now.


Their rules say they only need 3 for a meeting, 4 for Commission actions. But you need to read the regulations in full to know for sure (which I haven't, I only read it last week in part during quorum debate).

But this is not a simple technicality because of the unique circumstances of the moment, so the Court will have to rule on it.

Bottom line for me is that OUR CONSTITUTION is inadequately designed to resolve all these burgeoning crises. If Donald Korir is right, and that law he cites is still active, it means we also have no acting IG because even Uhuru cannot appoint Matiangi as Kipkorir is demanding, no matter what that law prescribes. SCOK is not Jesus, how are they supposed to resolve all these things? If I were them, I'd find a quick solution to the singular question of the disputed election declaration only. After that, let people take questions to lower courts to resolve the other Constitutional questions.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #78 on: August 28, 2022, 03:58:07 PM »

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #79 on: August 28, 2022, 04:01:47 PM »