Author Topic: Azimio presidential petition superthread  (Read 40315 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2022, 03:30:53 PM »

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2022, 04:02:56 PM »
I dont think that act is constitutional - and I expect it will become part of the big challenge here.

Only IEBC can declare someone elected. I remember there was a recount done that found MP had won - but I dont know how far it went - but eventually either it was quashed or new election ordered.

The point is SCORK has limited powers. It cannot order IEBC on how to do their job - or say Chebukati cannot run elections. That is parliament job.

So most of orders AZIMIO are asking are overreaching. They are asking SCORK to do parliament, president, criminal court and worse kenyan jobs - they are asking for a civilian coup.

Constitution talks about - annulling presidential election and 60 days of new elections. This is NOT MCA or MP election. This presidential election petititon that is heard and determined in 14 days. I dont think acts of parliament can help anyone here.

COK2010 is clear - two options here - 1) Uphold as valid 2) Invalidate and order a re-run in 60 days - there are no IFFS or BUTTS - they cannot even order it done in 100 days.

No election Court can make anyone PORK/MP/MCA etc. But they can, upon a recount of ballots showing a clear winner, order the IEBC to issue the election certificate to the rightful winner. That does not mean this will happen in this case, obviously: Because merely showing that the court has the power to correct a wrongful declaration is not the same thing as showing that a wrongful declaration was made.

I'm willing to let the Court grapple with this and the other constitutional question about the IEBC quorum. The Constitution says if the election is invalid, a fresh election will be conducted. Question for the Court is whether the election as a whole is invalid if any part of it at all is invalid, even the tail-end, or a substantial part of it. Imagine a case where someone gets 7.5 million, no. 2 gets 6.5 million, and IEBC under a Moi-like president just outright declares no. 2 the winner. Would the court force a new election when the declaration is manifestly wrong as opposed to just quash that one and order the IEBC to issue the requisite certificate to the rightful winner?

Seems both Azimio and KK are quick to throw away statutes when they don't favor them. Azimio are doing it when it comes to IEBC quorum and KK when it comes to the powers of SCOK in correcting wrongful IEBC declarations. The truth is, the Constitution only quashes Acts of Parliament that have been shown to contradict it. So if a statute exists, it's up to both Azimio and KK (in their respective arguments) to prove in what way they're contradictory as opposed to merely filling gaps.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2022, 04:07:11 PM »
The petition is full of innuendo and half truth - claiming Itumbi hacked, some Koech laptop, Logistic Venezuelan.

I remember Othaya analysis was done by Elijah K recently. Azimio are claiming only 41k - presidential votes - while in reality it's 61k - similar to senate/governorship


Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2022, 04:09:48 PM »
I think presidential petition is special one. It heard once - and in record 14 days. The limits are in the constitution. The rest can be applied in MCA or etc. In fact there is barely enough time to do a recount even if SCORK wanted. Chebukati took 7 days. Now imagine a court ordered process...can it be done in 14 days - including today when time has started ticking. It cannot. So basically it's either valid or invalid.

Reading through Azimio badly done petition it sounds very political - they are asking for DCI to investigate IEBC - count election - do magic in all the 14 days -?

The reality is - Supreme Court - will sit in a day or two - for pre-conference - after consolidating all the 4-6 petitions.

All these respondents will have to file their own response with evidences - more truck loads of evidence - perhaps in usual 4 days.

So you see - we then have one week - for hearing and determination.

Even simple stuff like getting server access last time were time-barred.

So SCORK presidential petition is limited - and SCORK powers very limited - to 1) Valid or 2) Invalid - mostly prima-facia - or intuitively. Asking for SCORK to order recount or investigation is playing politics.

What they can do is get a sample of problematic forms - and use that to make inference - to either validate or invalidate.

And they cannot order IEBC how to conduct elections - they can give guidelines - but IEBC will do it's job. They cannot remove Chebukati - that has to be done via parliament - where Azimio will need a petition and tribunal - etc et.

I'm willing to let the Court grapple with this and the other constitutional question about the IEBC quorum. The Constitution says if the election is invalid, a fresh election will be conducted. Question for the Court is whether the election as a whole is invalid if any part of it at all is invalid, even the tail-end, or a substantial part of it. Imagine a case where someone gets 7.5 million, no. 2 gets 6.5 million, and IEBC under a Moi-like president just outright declares no. 2 the winner. Would the court force a new election when the declaration is manifestly wrong as opposed to just quash that one and order the IEBC to issue the requisite certificate to the rightful winner?

Seems both Azimio and KK are quick to throw away statutes when they don't favor them. Azimio are doing it when it comes to IEBC quorum and KK when it comes to the powers of SCOK in correcting wrongful IEBC declarations. The truth is, the Constitution only quashes Acts of Parliament that have been shown to contradict it. So if a statute exists, it's up to both Azimio and KK (in their respective arguments) to prove in what way they're contradictory as opposed to merely filling gaps.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2022, 04:27:40 PM »
Reading through the entire thing.
1) Chebukati - they allege all manner of crimes - SCORK is not a criminal court - this election petition.
2) DCI Kinoti - fingerprints and footprints are all over - making all manner of allegations - and wanting to be given opportunity to official file more lies...on Venezuelans and Itumbis.
3) Conman George of East Africa Data handlers -> Claims of hacking -  Laptop of Koech Geoffrey/ Itumbi from affidavit of John Githongo (same Githongo?)
4) The difference btw presidential and other ballots - this is expected but should be very small - stray ballots.
5) Turnout  - Chebukati kept giving us different turnout.
6) Some random Prof Walter who run analysis and alleges rigging.
7)  Why did they switch off the TV display? The last 20 odd constitutuency were never verified? Chebukati logged himself out.

What they avoid totally is mention of any observer reports or their own agents (except in Bomet/Kiambu) or parrallel tallying or the media tallying centers.

This should be easy
1) Chebukati need to bring a detailed affidavit.
2) Itumbi-Koech need their own affidavit.
3) IEBC need to lays the facts on elections.  Most of nonsense AZIMIO have put there are laughable - like Othaya case where they false claim 41K presidential votes instead of 61k.
4) UDA should demonstrate that their own agent systems/parrellel tallying/ matches IBC
5) Sink the renegade 1) their nature of appointment 2) them announcing fake results that were then latched onto 3) their 0.1% mazematics 4) trying to force Chebukati to moderate results.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2022, 05:51:58 PM »

Offline gout

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2022, 06:17:00 PM »
Looks a fishing expedition.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine

Offline patel

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2022, 07:11:44 PM »
Raila has no case...classic case of scatter gun approach. Whatever sticks...

Offline RV Pundit

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Offline GeeMail

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2022, 08:50:45 PM »
Look like farmer intentionally placed dead goat in path of Hyena and painted it with red paint. Now Hyena is belching and threatening everyone, buying goats and sheep and happily explaining how restaurant served him red paint.
Celebratory violence: 2017 crime invented to justify killings to prevent Raila from becoming PORK. http://www.nipate.com/download/file.php?id=4244

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2022, 08:54:21 PM »
Yeah I am sure Raila had all this planned - lose then have SCORK make him PORk - how wonderful to be a moron like some of you.
Look like farmer intentionally placed dead goat in path of Hyena and painted it with red paint. Now Hyena is belching and threatening everyone, buying goats and sheep and happily explaining how restaurant served him red paint.

Offline GeeMail

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2022, 08:57:53 PM »
Belching Hyena with red lip of red paint seeing how other animals are moron.
Celebratory violence: 2017 crime invented to justify killings to prevent Raila from becoming PORK. http://www.nipate.com/download/file.php?id=4244

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2022, 09:03:26 PM »
Supreme court doesnt have powers to give those orders. . . .   It also cannot make Raila PORK

No election Court can make anyone PORK/MP/MCA etc. But they can, upon a recount of ballots showing a clear winner, order the IEBC to issue the election certificate to the rightful winner. That does not mean this will happen in this case, obviously: Because merely showing that the court has the power to correct a wrongful declaration is not the same thing as showing that a wrongful declaration was made.

Quote
Elections Act, Cap 24 of 2011

80. Powers of election court

(4) An election court may by order direct the Commission to issue a certificate of election to a President, a member of Parliament or a member of a county assembly

Are there any potential circumstances where they may have the power to bar someone from running in a subsequent election?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2022, 09:18:02 PM »
It world first to see someone with backing of deep state, systems and name all hyenas crying that their goat was eaten by a lion. Maybe you should not be hunting. Consider eating grass like a donkey you're.
Belching Hyena with red lip of red paint seeing how other animals are moron.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2022, 09:20:04 PM »
There are - but after a criminal trial - that starts with investigation & full criminal trial - and all that.  Then IEBC can disallow someone from partcipating.

Azimio are asking SCORK to allow their own DCI with their own ready files to investigate in a week, come up with evidence, and SCORK to convict all within a week. How silly? Even a Kangaroo court cannot do that.

Most of those allegations and counter-allegations will be ignored. They will be forwarded to DPP for action.

SCORK will concentrate on what they can do. That is stuff about numbers, %,  four commissioners versus Chebukati role as Pres RO, form 34A - sample of them, processes. Hacking & other IT heavy stuff are beyond the SCORK mandate...those criminal allegations that requires investigation and whole of it.

Are there any potential circumstances where they may have the power to bar someone from running in a subsequent election?

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2022, 09:38:51 PM »
Supreme court doesnt have powers to give those orders. . . .   It also cannot make Raila PORK

No election Court can make anyone PORK/MP/MCA etc. But they can, upon a recount of ballots showing a clear winner, order the IEBC to issue the election certificate to the rightful winner. That does not mean this will happen in this case, obviously: Because merely showing that the court has the power to correct a wrongful declaration is not the same thing as showing that a wrongful declaration was made.

Quote
Elections Act, Cap 24 of 2011

80. Powers of election court

(4) An election court may by order direct the Commission to issue a certificate of election to a President, a member of Parliament or a member of a county assembly

Are there any potential circumstances where they may have the power to bar someone from running in a subsequent election?

Well, the Constitution bars people (from vying) who have committed an election offence in the preceding 5 years (the test for being an eligible voter). But that would then apply upon proof of such offence. The SCOK at most would, I believe, direct that matter be pursued by DPP in the lower courts. But I'll look at the Elections Offences Act & Elections Act to be sure I'm not missing something (later).

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2022, 02:56:20 PM »
Mwango Capital guys have done well.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1expu7ozXYYDidv_jpekOn9ajC4cqSz9j

With a compromised media, new outlets will emerge. The national internet framework should be a priority.


Offline bryan274

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2022, 01:01:45 PM »
The first Respondent has responded and disowned the election.  Ruto now needs to let go of this one.  Mambo kwisha.


Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Azimio presidential petition superthread
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2022, 01:10:34 PM »
Looking at the Chebukati affidavit - I think main issues should really be on 27 const whose tallies were not announced in Bomas of Kenya. That is where focus should be- the last day of BOMAS.