Engineering courses suspended in 22 Kenyan public universities

[mya88]

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http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Engineering-courses-in-Kenya-public-universities-suspended-/-/1056/2517024/-/10pdx0f/-/index.html

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

It would be interesting if they could highlight some of the quality problems. 

Is it just a certification test that they failed? 

Is this something reflected in their work(for the tiny minority with work experience)?

Are they saying they have civil engineers who cannot design a road?  Or electronics engineers who don't know what a capacitor is?

It seems like a very vague statement by EBK.

[mya88]

Vice-chancellors and the EBK would meet this week to determine the next move for KU, JKUAT, Egerton University, Technical University of Mombasa, Maseno University and all colleges offering engineering courses

I dont think its the certification, given how long you need to get it. They are being really vague about the discrepancies. I just cannot understand how all 22 facilities can be affected at the same time. That speaks volume about the overall quality of education in public universities. Right now we only know of engineering, but how many other courses are currently being offered. The whole university education system needs to be closely scrutinized

[RV Pundit]

This is nonsense.When do a professional body like EB controls education?. They should only control membership to that body. The course should be vet by CHE (Commission of higher education). We should have normal engineers..and engineers certified by EB. The same way you have lawyers [degree holders] and advocates[who passes some extra exams].

Not every kenyan trained engineer wants to be "Registered Engineer" or practising. Most of them in fact arm themselves with engineering degree but end up in IT (esp Telcoms) , some go to MBAS and become business managers, some of them proceed to further education and join academia, some of them proceed abroad and work toward qualifying for those countries EB...in short education has wider mandate than professional concerns of EB.

This is a cartel trying to stifle education. That way you have a few overfed 2,000 engineers all mostly working for gov in country of 45M people.

[Georgesoros]

Yes but they can only practice if they belong to the board, right?

[mya88]

This is nonsense.When do a professional body like EB controls education?. They should only control membership to that body. The course should be vet by CHE (Commission of higher education). We should have normal engineers..and engineers certified by EB. The same way you have lawyers [degree holders] and advocates[who passes some extra exams].

Not every kenyan trained engineer wants to be "Registered Engineer" or practising. Most of them in fact arm themselves with engineering degree but end up in IT (esp Telcoms) , some go to MBAS and become business managers, some of them proceed to further education and join academia, some of them proceed abroad and work toward qualifying for those countries EB...in short education has wider mandate than professional concerns of EB.

This is a cartel trying to stifle education. That way you have a few overfed 2,000 engineers all mostly working for gov in country of 45M people.

[RV Pundit]

They can practice..but on certain projects where say gov or city council demand one must be registered engineer they would pass..but definitely a person with engineering degree should be free to open his juakali and design something.

Yes but they can only practice if they belong to the board, right?

[RV Pundit]

People get degrees for all sort of reasons. Not everyone of them want to become a registered engineer.Some of them just study to broaden their knowledge and end up in completely different careers.

EB is a professional body..with professional exam and requirement. They should stick to that. They should be able to register an engineer who trained in Uganda or US....as long as they can pass exam and requirement. They cannot go round the world demanding that universities abide by XYZ. That is NOT their mandate. That is mandate of CHE. Commission of HIGHER EDUCATION. EB should ensure the certification process is foolproof so any graduate from funny university in India or River road...will automatically fail.

Universities job is to offer education[wider]...not to train professionals...ready to start work on day one. That is unrealistic. That would restrict university role.

EB is quite obviously a cartel trying to ensure fewer and fewer engineers are joining their lucrative trade...where they sit at several gov ministries...approving stuff...after heavy bribe.

Heck what is the last innovative thing that a registered kenyan engineer ever did....apart from getting kick backs to approve substandard work.

EB should worry more about ETHICS of their engineers..and less about their academic qualification.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

They can practice..but on certain projects where say gov or city council demand one must be registered engineer they would pass..but definitely a person with engineering degree should be free to open his juakali and design something.

Yes but they can only practice if they belong to the board, right?

I am sympathetic to this point of view.  Outside certain areas like medicine, drugs etc...I favor an open field. 

Most professions tend to box people into pidgeonholes.  It is great for running things that already work.  The system trains robots and puts them to work.

But it hinders innovation.  There will always be outliers that venture into areas "they have no business venturing" and in the process creating new things.

[mya88]

People get degrees for all sort of reasons. Not everyone of them want to become a registered engineer.Some of them just study to broaden their knowledge and end up in completely different careers.

EB is a professional body..with professional exam and requirement. They should stick to that. They should be able to register an engineer who trained in Uganda or US....as long as they can pass exam and requirement. They cannot go round the world demanding that universities abide by XYZ. That is NOT their mandate. That is mandate of CHE. Commission of HIGHER EDUCATION. EB should ensure the certification process is foolproof so any graduate from funny university in India or River road...will automatically fail.

Universities job is to offer education[wider]...not to train professionals...ready to start work on day one. That is unrealistic. That would restrict university role.

EB is quite obviously a cartel trying to ensure fewer and fewer engineers are joining their lucrative trade...where they sit at several gov ministries...approving stuff...after heavy bribe.

Heck what is the last innovative thing that a registered kenyan engineer ever did....apart from getting kick backs to approve substandard work.

EB should worry more about ETHICS of their engineers..and less about their academic qualification.

[MOON Ki]

People get degrees for all sort of reasons. Not everyone of them want to become a registered engineer.Some of them just study to broaden their knowledge and end up in completely different careers.

In a poor country like Kenya, I doubt that there are many who go to university "just study to broaden their knowledge".   The majority see it as the start of a way to make a decent living, and that is especially true in areas like engineering, law, and medicine.

The fact that people end up working in an area other than what they initially studied is not proof that they never intended to have a career in the area of study.   Few people start out by saying "I really want to work in Area A but instead of studying that, I will study in Area B."

[MOON Ki]

That speaks volume about the overall quality of education in public universities. Right now we only know of engineering, but how many other courses are currently being offered. The whole university education system needs to be closely scrutinized

Visit some of the Kenyan universities that purport to teach engineering courses.   You will find hopelessly  outdated equipment, libraries that bordered on jokes, and lecturers who are so busy with outside non-professional activities that it is unlikely they have read a book since graduating.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

That speaks volume about the overall quality of education in public universities. Right now we only know of engineering, but how many other courses are currently being offered. The whole university education system needs to be closely scrutinized

Visit some of the Kenyan universities that purport to teach engineering courses.   You will find hopelessly  outdated equipment, libraries that bordered on jokes, and lecturers who are so busy with outside non-professional activities that it is unlikely they have read a book since graduating.

MOON Ki,

That may be true.  Yet when you look at Kenya's needs.  They need engineers to work on elementary civil projects.  A road here, an irrigation canal there, a borehole yonder etc. Things that the Romans did just fine millennia ago without high-tech universities.  Some of whose works are still standing. They may also need factory and power plant managers etc. 

While they may be equipped like a 60s college in the west, I am thinking Kenya barely uses a fraction of what its engineering graduates should be capable of.  Most of the electronics engineers I personally know in Kenya wound up in the telecoms side of IT as mentioned elsewhere...short of leaving the country, they are not going to be designing microcontrollers in that locale for sometime.

A need for more chemical engineers is on the horizon once oil exploitation begins.  These people are not going to be building space stations, calculating orbital insertion and docking and what have you. 

Kenya just needs folks with appropriate technology.  A fellow that can light up a village or two.  Design a water system for a village..etc etc.  Like these guys that win CNN awards but on an industrial scale.

To be fair, without knowing what the EBK is complaining about, I can't make any meaningful critique on that subject.

[MOON Ki]

Terminator:

Yes, the digging of trenches, latrines, and wells would make a huge difference.    But none of that requires that people be sent to university and at enormous expense.   I think it is a waste, for all, to invest in university education if it cannot be done properly and if the graduates are simply going to end up doing work that does not require that sort of education.   It does happen that some people end up in that situation, but that is never their goal, and it should not be society's.   It certainly is a poor situation if, after all that time and expense, the universities produce "engineers" who are fit for only jua-kali work; and that is an entirely different issue from that of the value of jua-kali products.

Another aspect has to do with where the country wishes to go.  I keep hearing that the plan is to be an industrialized country (by 2030?).    In the 21st century, I don't see that happening with sub-standard training of engineers and technicians.

[bittertruth]

I had a damnable experience.  As far as I can remember, a professor would just come straight to the blackboard or overhead projector and scribble out equations for an hour without uttering a single sentence to create some excitement.  Its not encouraging at all.

Also you find most of these Professors and Doctors leave most of their work to a teaching assistants. Its not clear whether its because they are busy with other things or whether its lack of interest for what they are paid for.

As far as I know it, what an engineering student knows best is the theory. Diploma guys are more practical than graduates and that's a fact in Kenya.

[vooke]

negro, what did you just say? 

MOON Ki,

That may be true.  Yet when you look at Kenya's needs.  They need engineers to work on elementary civil projects.  A road here, an irrigation canal there, a borehole yonder etc. Things that the Romans did just fine millennia ago without high-tech universities.  Some of whose works are still standing. They may also need factory and power plant managers etc. 

While they may be equipped like a 60s college in the west, I am thinking Kenya barely uses a fraction of what its engineering graduates should be capable of.  Most of the electronics engineers I personally know in Kenya wound up in the telecoms side of IT as mentioned elsewhere...short of leaving the country, they are not going to be designing microcontrollers in that locale for sometime.

A need for more chemical engineers is on the horizon once oil exploitation begins.  These people are not going to be building space stations, calculating orbital insertion and docking and what have you. 

Kenya just needs folks with appropriate technology.  A fellow that can light up a village or two.  Design a water system for a village..etc etc.  Like these guys that win CNN awards but on an industrial scale.

To be fair, without knowing what the EBK is complaining about, I can't make any meaningful critique on that subject.

[RV Pundit]

I hold the point of view that higher education should concentrate more on theoretical fundamental basic stuff and leave proffesional or techie stuff for on-job training or professional training. An engineer trained in 1960s...should have about the same knowledge as an engineer trained in 1990s...and 2000s. What should differ really is their work life.Our main problem lies in the fact that we see higher education as an end to itself; instead of being a bridge for us to pursue professional training, on job training and life-long knowledge acquisition in our area of trade. There is no way university can train us to become expert engineers in every possible field. If you end up being electrical energy in geothermal field...you should invest in that field.

[mya88]

[mya88]

I had a damnable experience.  As far as I can remember, a professor would just come straight to the blackboard or overhead projector and scribble out equations for an hour without uttering a single sentence to create some excitement.  Its not encouraging at all.

Also you find most of these Professors and Doctors leave most of their work to a teaching assistants. Its not clear whether its because they are busy with other things or whether its lack of interest for what they are paid for.

As far as I know it, what an engineering student knows best is the theory. Diploma guys are more practical than graduates and that's a fact in Kenya.

[RV Pundit]

Who is saying our education standards are sub-par?. When COMMISSION OF HIGHER EDUCATION says so...i will accept them. Engineer Board to me is more a proffesional body with their own exams. Are kenyan graduate being rejected in postgrad outside this country. No.