Mandatory NHIF - very welcomed - monthly 500shs

[RV Pundit]

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If you cannot fork out 500 per month - then police should arrest you and send you to jail - where gov will take care of you in exchange of labour.

Medical insurance should be a must - so we don't end up with sick people unable to treat themselves.

https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/economy/every-adult-nhif-sh6-000-in-health-bill-3406838

The review of law, which is currently before Parliament, will target more than 16 million adult Kenyans who are not covered by the NHIF.

Official data shows more than 25.36 million Kenyans are above 18 years and NHIF has 8.898 million members.

[RV Pundit]

And forget about UHC - public hospitals will not have the drugs - let everyone just be insured by NHIF - and let them choose decent public or private or mission hospital they would like to attend - that charges reasonably well.

[KenyanPlato]

You love big government. Everything about you screams a welfare. You are nipate's welfare queen.

[Kadudu]

Pundit, this sounds more like hut tax that was introduced by the colonialists to tame the locals.
Will not work unless the counties jump in to pay for their people. More than 50% of the Kenyans will not pay this new taxation. 500 Ksh per month is a lot of money for people deep in Samburu and other remote places.

[RV Pundit]

Obamcare is mandatory.You cannot pay..you go in

[RV Pundit]

You love big government. Everything about you screams a welfare. You are nipate's welfare queen.

gov has huge role to play..to fight poverty..500shs to ensure you get quality healthcare is great

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

You love big government. Everything about you screams a welfare. You are nipate's welfare queen.

gov has huge role to play..to fight poverty..500shs to ensure you get quality healthcare is great

"The essential notion of a capitalist society … is voluntary cooperation, voluntary exchange. The essential notion of a socialist society is force." – Milton Friedman pic.twitter.com/SnjdNgmjOW

— Steve Hanke (@steve_hanke) May 20, 2021

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

In low trust cultures/countries like ours, you want to shrink the size of the government for obvious reasons. Make it small as possible, what some call night watchman state: "a state that is limited and minimal, whose only functions are to act as an enforcer of the non-aggression principle by providing citizens with the military, the police and courts, thereby protecting them from aggression, theft, breach of contract, fraud and enforcing property laws."

Those who advocate for an expansive state hope a time comes when their kinfolk ascend to power so they can pilfer public coffers, get preferential treatment in tenders, bend the rules to rape the national commons. 

[RV Pundit]

It long be determined that pure capitalism has no space in modern world - we need to think about a social safety net for the poor - and NHIF or Obamacare- is one such.

You love big government. Everything about you screams a welfare. You are nipate's welfare queen.

gov has huge role to play..to fight poverty..500shs to ensure you get quality healthcare is great

"The essential notion of a capitalist society … is voluntary cooperation, voluntary exchange. The essential notion of a socialist society is force." – Milton Friedman pic.twitter.com/SnjdNgmjOW

— Steve Hanke (@steve_hanke) May 20, 2021

[Dear Mami]

Ngilu had a great idea back in NARC days that passed parliament but got killed by Kibaki. I support NHIF for all but not like this: it has to be subsidized by the govt in some form. Once Huduma is fully operationalized, what I think needs to happen is something like HELB loan, where the govt pays for all over 18s who can't pay and then it turns into a loan that can be pursued some other way.

Another thing the govt must do is MPesa the elder people's support. It's so crudely done that I know two relatives over 70 who have never gotten their money because of petty fights with sub-chiefs and whatnot.

[Dear Mami]

In low trust cultures/countries like ours, you want to shrink the size of the government for obvious reasons. Make it small as possible, what some call night watchman state

Tea Party nonsense. We need better governance systems, not "smaller govt." Can you name me one country that has lifted its population out of poverty in the last 100 years without INTENSIVE govt intervention? Not even the USA got its people through the great depression without HEAVY govt intervention in the welfare of ordinary people. If it was some Tea Party-like nut and not FDR in charge back then, the US might've experienced a second revolutionary war.

[KenyanPlato]

Yeah welfare in resource poor country will lead to more poverty

[mankind]

 Exactly what I thought.  I  shudder to hear anyone repeating the neoconservatives bullshit who are themselves millionaires  from military contracts building weapons to fight stupid wars with countries that cannot fight back.  Like Donald Rumsfeld once remarked, it doesn't make sense dropping a 500 pound bomb on a 100 pound emaciated guy. Unfortunately most of the folks repeating that crap don't see the well fare state in such programs but are quick to call help for the poor welfare.  Pure capitalism has no place in modern societies.  The rich get richer by all sorts including tax evasion everywhere including third world countries.  Ask yourself what fun there is when you are rich surrounded by poor folks when you have to erect electric fences and fortify homes like you live in Colombia or Mexican states ran by drug lords!  Why is it that Scandinavian people have a better life on average than even the US?  So repeating tea party bullshit while 90 % of those folks are on food stamps, section 8 housing and medicaid programs is really dumb.  Pay according to ability and get help according to one's need  like  Canada does.  And please don't bring in the tired argument of wait times for simple procedures because their health care is better than the US.  I went to college in Michigan and saw it first hand Michigan folks crossing over for treatment all the time.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

It long be determined that pure capitalism has no space in modern world - we need to think about a social safety net for the poor - and NHIF or Obamacare- is one such.

Socialism has never worked in a low trust society, a safety net won't work in Kenya. Odumbocare is one big failure further proving socialism is impractical, government coercion doesn't work. Voluntary exchange is the way.

[RV Pundit]

Precisely. Gov has it make capital investment in roads; must also make social investment. Ngilu NHIF was good except it was forcing private insurers to be part of it or something like that. NHIF should be compulsory primary insurance...with the rich paying more..and the poor can pay as low as even 100shs per month. I know in my place...tea farmers all get NHIF - they pay I think 300shs per month. And this has huge impact in fighting povety.

Ngilu had a great idea back in NARC days that passed parliament but got killed by Kibaki. I support NHIF for all but not like this: it has to be subsidized by the govt in some form. Once Huduma is fully operationalized, what I think needs to happen is something like HELB loan, where the govt pays for all over 18s who can't pay and then it turns into a loan that can be pursued some other way.

Another thing the govt must do is MPesa the elder people's support. It's so crudely done that I know two relatives over 70 who have never gotten their money because of petty fights with sub-chiefs and whatnot.

[RV Pundit]

Totally agree.

Most people denigrate social investment as socialism or communism. They see gov investing in people's education, health, social safety net - targetting the poor - as wasted money - and go into long diatribe about communism.

Most people are okay when gov invests in capital goods - build roads, infrastructure, airports - and this infrastructure beyond the memo that it's a public good - is really only used by the middle and rich class - poor people do not need airports.

Just like the rich need fancy airports - the poor need their healthcare is taken care of when they fall sick ( which is quite often - from an easily preventable disease like diarhoea).

Exactly what I thought.  I  shudder to hear anyone repeating the neoconservatives bullshit who are themselves millionaires  from military contracts building weapons to fight stupid wars with countries that cannot fight back.  Like Donald Rumsfeld once remarked, it doesn't make sense dropping a 500 pound bomb on a 100 pound emaciated guy. Unfortunately most of the folks repeating that crap don't see the well fare state in such programs but are quick to call help for the poor welfare.  Pure capitalism has no place in modern societies.  The rich get richer by all sorts including tax evasion everywhere including third world countries.  Ask yourself what fun there is when you are rich surrounded by poor folks when you have to erect electric fences and fortify homes like you live in Colombia or Mexican states ran by drug lords!  Why is it that Scandinavian people have a better life on average than even the US?  So repeating tea party bullshit while 90 % of those folks are on food stamps, section 8 housing and medicaid programs is really dumb.  Pay according to ability and get help according to one's need  like  Canada does.  And please don't bring in the tired argument of wait times for simple procedures because their health care is better than the US.  I went to college in Michigan and saw it first hand Michigan folks crossing over for treatment all the time.

[RV Pundit]

As always regurgitating popular polemics and sloganeering. Modern societies or economies are split into gov (social by it's nature) and private sector.

At worst the gov will take 30% of the GDP - leaving 70% in the private sector where capitalism rules.

The problem only arises when gov - forces the private sector to become socialist or communist - through say state-owned monopolies like Kenya Power or even public hospitals.

It's about gov ensuring that at least 30% of the economy - is socially shared equitably.

For example in this NHIF - nobody is saying don't get your own expensive private insurance and go to expensive hospitals for plastic surgey - but at minimum, the poor too need to go half-decent hospital.

We know already that gov cannot effectively run public hospitals - so for me - the future is gov get out of public hospitals - and focus on universal health insurance. This way you UNLOCK PRIVATE SECTOR investment in the health care sector - and capitalism kick in.

You trust gov to run PUBLIC HOSPITALS (complicated operation) but have a PROBLEM WITH NHIF providing universal health cover so people can go to decent mission, university and private hospitals.

In fact these kind of public hospitals we have in Kenya and Africa do not exist in the modern world - most hospitals out there - are private or owned by universities - and those countries provide universal health insurance.

Invest in NHIF as universal primary health insurer - and divest in public sector funded and run hospitals. Turn KNH into Nairobi University Hospital - and same for the rest. Counties like national gov have proven impossible to run even basic dispenaries...so sell it to universities, private sector and missions...with promise that nobody will ever miss health insurance cover from gov.

Socialism has never worked in a low trust society, a safety net won't work in Kenya. Odumbocare is one big failure further proving socialism is impractical, government coercion doesn't work. Voluntary exchange is the way.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Ngilu had a great idea back in NARC days that passed parliament but got killed by Kibaki. I support NHIF for all but not like this: it has to be subsidized by the govt in some form. Once Huduma is fully operationalized, what I think needs to happen is something like HELB loan, where the govt pays for all over 18s who can't pay and then it turns into a loan that can be pursued some other way.

Another thing the govt must do is MPesa the elder people's support. It's so crudely done that I know two relatives over 70 who have never gotten their money because of petty fights with sub-chiefs and whatnot.

THIS, is how ladies and gentleman leftwing/socialist/commie economics destroys nations. Venezuela is a prime example. Hugo Chavez - their big mouthed fanatically socialist president promised them all goodies under the sun, free housing, wage increases, free food, free medical care etc. They got it none of what he promised, instead they are economic refugees flooding into Colombia because they are starving. They failed a basic test of maturity, there is no free lunch in life, you can't believe charlatans promising manna from heaven. In nature you have to earn your keep that is how it has been since life evolved. Sadly lefties have indoctrinated a large part of third world populations that big government got them covered they don't have to worry, that cornucopia will materialize if we make the state bigger. I call it serikali saidia mentality or in another parlance learned helplessness. It is very comforting for certain types - the lazy, the feckless and the envious, they like nothing more than a nanny state will provide for their whims. Don't fall for it. Grit and hustling is the natural order of things, not government hand outs. Remember government programs 100% end in failure of the time without exception, mandatory NHIF  will not be different. Big government = big taxes, onerous regulations and red tape.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Tea Party nonsense. We need better governance systems, not "smaller govt." Can you name me one country that has lifted its population out of poverty in the last 100 years without INTENSIVE govt intervention? Not even the USA got its people through the great depression without HEAVY govt intervention in the welfare of ordinary people. If it was some Tea Party-like nut and not FDR in charge back then, the US might've experienced a second revolutionary war.

A smaller government is invariably a better government. Singapore is a prime example of minimal night watchman state. Hong Kong is another. FDR's intervention didn't end the great depression. Left wingers love to delude themselves. Obama's trillion dollar stimulus likewise didn't jack for the US economy, all they did was subsidize failures like Solyndra. We are light years ahead of you in economics, don't feel yourself.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Exactly what I thought.  I  shudder to hear anyone repeating the neoconservatives bullshit who are themselves millionaires  from military contracts building weapons to fight stupid wars with countries that cannot fight back.  Like Donald Rumsfeld once remarked, it doesn't make sense dropping a 500 pound bomb on a 100 pound emaciated guy. Unfortunately most of the folks repeating that crap don't see the well fare state in such programs but are quick to call help for the poor welfare.

Wrong label, my views are libertarian or neoclassical.

Pure capitalism has no place in modern societies.  The rich get richer by all sorts including tax evasion everywhere including third world countries.

You are referring to crony capitalism and oligarchies. No one wants that.

Ask yourself what fun there is when you are rich surrounded by poor folks when you have to erect electric fences and fortify homes like you live in Colombia or Mexican states ran by drug lords!  Why is it that Scandinavian people have a better life on average than even the US?  So repeating tea party bullshit while 90 % of those folks are on food stamps, section 8 housing and medicaid programs is really dumb.  Pay according to ability and get help according to one's need  like  Canada does.  And please don't bring in the tired argument of wait times for simple procedures because their health care is better than the US.  I went to college in Michigan and saw it first hand Michigan folks crossing over for treatment all the time.

Nordic countries are high trust homogenous societies with a rule of law, they are also market economies that have social programs. Third world socialists and big government advocates don't understand markets. They can't be trusted, so government needs to be lean as possible.