?s=19This is what Paul Gicheru is accused of in the case against William Ruto and Joshua Sang. pic.twitter.com/fxU1y1D5a0
— Oliver Mathenge (@OliverMathenge) November 2, 2020
I see some arguing about case terminated (Uhuru) versus Ruto case dismissed.
Uhuru case was never heard and determined. It was suspended mid-air. It easy to restart. If you have new evidence.
Ruto case was heard and dismissed mid-way. Ruto case will have to start a fresh - like it never existed - if you have new evidence - right from pre-trial.
So Ruto basically had no case to answer. Prosecutor basically lost the case without the defendant having to defend themselves. You lose on your own half of the field. Ocampo was that incompetent. So even if you go with evidence...you have to start basically from the scratch.
Uhuru was never charged. There was no evidence basically to charge. Ocampo lost before the whistle was blown. He asked the court to terminate proceedings until evidence become available. It easier to restart Uhuru case.
A judgment on Ruto case was deliverd - NOT guilty. Uhuru case did not proceed to full hearing.
I see some arguing about case terminated (Uhuru) versus Ruto case dismissed.
Uhuru case was never heard and determined. It was suspended mid-air. It easy to restart. If you have new evidence.
Ruto case was heard and dismissed mid-way. Ruto case will have to start a fresh - like it never existed - if you have new evidence - right from pre-trial.
So Ruto basically had no case to answer. Prosecutor basically lost the case without the defendant having to defend themselves. You lose on your own half of the field. Ocampo was that incompetent. So even if you go with evidence...you have to start basically from the scratch.
Uhuru was never charged. There was no evidence basically to charge. Ocampo lost before the whistle was blown. He asked the court to terminate proceedings until evidence become available. It easier to restart Uhuru case.
A judgment on Ruto case was deliverd - NOT guilty. Uhuru case did not proceed to full hearing.
You're probably right about the termination of the cases. The issue here is that Paul Gicheru is charged with interfering with Mobutu case not Uhuru's. If Gicheru cuts a deal it would only hang Mobutu but not his ex-twin.
For administration of justice charge (a misdemeanor) - yes - for Crimes Against Humanity no. That would require those witneses intimidated or bribed to comeback and be willing testify - so Bensauda can re-build a case a fresh. Ruto has no pending business in ICC...his case was heard and No guilty (no need to defend) yourself verdict returned. It was that horrible.
So If Gicheru provide evidence that he acted for Ruto. Ruto will be charged with Administration of Justice (or Contempt of Court) offence. Max jail term 5yrs.
For Paul Gicheru - this is a very short trial. If Bensauda doesn't have evidence as always - it will be swift - Administration of Justice - will be heard by one judge and can be dispensed in max 3 months in my view. So for Paul Gicheru - it doesn't make sense to be a fugitive for such 'small' offence - and pretty much live in the shadows. It's like he is being charged for crimes against humanity or genocide.You're probably right about the termination of the cases. The issue here is that Paul Gicheru is charged with interfering with Mobutu case not Uhuru's. If Gicheru cuts a deal it would only hang Mobutu but not his ex-twin.
Well 5 years in winter is not a joke. Ask Slobodan Milosevic who froze to death there. I think the pertinent issue here is why has Gichure surrendered now after 5 years? Is it politically instigated and by who?
I have no idea. That is one theory. Another theory - he has suffered for nothing in 5yrs - he would have finished his jail by now - if he was guilty - and he will remain a fugitive for the rest of life. It was a wrong move from get go. He should have gone to ICC and got done with it. He is being charged for contempt of court - not for big ones - genocide, CAH, and persecution.Well 5 years in winter is not a joke. Ask Slobodan Milosevic who froze to death there. I think the pertinent issue here is why has Gichure surrendered now after 5 years? Is it politically instigated and by who?
Gicheru motivation is crucial. He was obviously well incentivized to interfere with Mobutu case at personal risk - I doubt it was entirely upto him whether or when to surrender to ICC. The timing of surrender is suspect with Uhuruto fallout - because I read somewhere ICC crew were on ground in Kenya to tie the strings in Mobutu case. GoK is now cooperative? 8)
Yes this is pure theory until we learn more.I have no idea. That is one theory. Another theory - he has suffered for nothing in 5yrs - he would have finished his jail by now - if he was guilty - and he will remain a fugitive for the rest of life. It was a wrong move from get go. He should have gone to ICC and got done with it. He is being charged for contempt of court - not for big ones - genocide, CAH, and persecution.Well 5 years in winter is not a joke. Ask Slobodan Milosevic who froze to death there. I think the pertinent issue here is why has Gichure surrendered now after 5 years? Is it politically instigated and by who?
Ruto case did not fail for lack of gov cooperation. Uhuru case failed for lack of gov cooperation. Please understand basic facts. It's tiring. Kibaki and his gov provided all the evidence against Ruto - NIS reports - name them. It was all fake of course. But Uhuru was protected - and gov refused to co-operate.
Ruto case only collapsed when charlatan at ICC protection realized they could not testify on oath - and stop cooperating - and they were in Europe already.
When Ocampo realized - he came for the remnants - he was desperately trying to shore his case - and came for Yebei (rip) and remainder - those rejected in the first round.
It's very likely Ruto interfered at that point. He clearly knew if he let them again - he would have to clear himself at great cost and time - so I cannot stand and say Ruto didn't kill Yebei..it very likely he did it. Yebei was organizing the 2nd lot to replace the reluctant first lot. He was murdered in cold blood and body dumped in Tsavo...all evidence for me point at Daktari Ruto.
So would Ruto be worried - of course - but at worse - he is worried about CAJ - not CAH - where he enjoys double jeopardy now - and in any case Bensauda cannot go for Kenya cases again unless she has the smoking gun.
Uhuru started killing Mungiki long ago. The Kingaga with poor Odhiambo. Many Mungiki who had met Uhuru or could testity were shot in cold blood.Gicheru motivation is crucial. He was obviously well incentivized to interfere with Mobutu case at personal risk - I doubt it was entirely upto him whether or when to surrender to ICC. The timing of surrender is suspect with Uhuruto fallout - because I read somewhere ICC crew were on ground in Kenya to tie the strings in Mobutu case. GoK is now cooperative? 8)
Yes this is pure theory until we learn more.I have no idea. That is one theory. Another theory - he has suffered for nothing in 5yrs - he would have finished his jail by now - if he was guilty - and he will remain a fugitive for the rest of life. It was a wrong move from get go. He should have gone to ICC and got done with it. He is being charged for contempt of court - not for big ones - genocide, CAH, and persecution.Well 5 years in winter is not a joke. Ask Slobodan Milosevic who froze to death there. I think the pertinent issue here is why has Gichure surrendered now after 5 years? Is it politically instigated and by who?
Bottomline the paused cases are a good deterrent against PEV 2 - which obviously benefits Raila.
The game changed. Next PEV won't be tribal - it will be a class war. GEMA don't need a beating - they are committed and ready. Those who should worry are the dynasties. The peasant have realized that they want to be used as pawns...they saw how GEMA elite have recklessly tried to endanger their lives and properties by almost inciting a war with kalenjin damn the consequences- and they've flipped the coin..told Ruto not to worry but leave it to us :)Pundit, so basically everyone who doesn't agree with Ruto and is wealthy will be targeted? There are alot of people in the rural areas especially in central who're wealthy who haven't benefited from government, such people won't sit around and watch their life's work be destroyed. Once the monster is unleashed it might consume everyone, militia will be formed to defend property.
Don't be suprised the next PEV will target kenyattas for example - led by own Kikuyu people. Warriors will handle the Mois. That will be Rwanda catastrophe...<b>because every village has some dynasties that people will attack and eat their cows :)..if they dare stop Ruto from distributing wheelbarrows in 2023 :)</b>
You're just too slow. In 2007 - it was 41 versus 1 - anti-kikuyu propaganda - that targetted kibaki for re-establishing kikuyu hegemony.
This one is Hustler Nation.Bottomline the paused cases are a good deterrent against PEV 2 - which obviously benefits Raila.
The best defense is to ensure free will and democracy prevails anything else will end in tears. Once the genie is out of the box, you cannot bottle it up.The poor that you depend to defend you properties will feast on it first. All it will take is for a few to starts - and then a wave of attack on dynasties will begin - and the definition will be hazy. It's like 2007 - when they were done with Kikuyus - they went for Gusiis - then they went for PNU supporters - then they went for prov admin (chiefs and sub chiefs). Then they started now going for everyone by charging roadblock fees. This is the scenario where Ruto wins but is brazenly rigged out. I don't think it will happen....but people need to be aware.Kikuyus are more aware of the consequences of class warfare than other tribes. We had mungiki, which started by demanding fees from the rich since they're few they had to charge almost everyone. What squashed mungiki was local vigilantes especially in areas like kirinyaga. The hustler "movement" risk being branded as new mungiki and that'll make most kikuyus especially 30yrs and older recoil. I am yet to understand wheelbarrow economics as it pertains to economic policy. Pro poor economic policy would be less government, less regulations, liberalization, low taxes, empowering of informal kadogo economy etc.
The best defense is to ensure free will and democracy prevails anything else will end in tears. Once the genie is out of the box, you cannot bottle it up.The poor that you depend to defend you properties will feast on it first. All it will take is for a few to starts - and then a wave of attack on dynasties will begin - and the definition will be hazy. It's like 2007 - when they were done with Kikuyus - they went for Gusiis - then they went for PNU supporters - then they went for prov admin (chiefs and sub chiefs). Then they started now going for everyone by charging roadblock fees. This is the scenario where Ruto wins but is brazenly rigged out. I don't think it will happen....but people need to be aware.Kikuyus are more aware of the consequences of class warfare than other tribes. We had mungiki, which started by demanding fees from the rich since they're few they had to charge almost everyone. What squashed mungiki was local vigilantes especially in areas like kirinyaga. The hustler "movement" risk being branded as new mungiki and that'll make most kikuyus especially 30yrs and older recoil. I am yet to understand wheelbarrow economics as it pertains to economic policy. Pro poor economic policy would be less government, less regulations, liberalization, low taxes, empowering of informal kadogo economy etc.
Hk
Pundit lost his mind. He is too deep in Ruto's cult to reason. He thinks kikuyus are stupid robots that they can use in their kalenjin nationalism
:) Murathe, Kamanda and Warugurus are already demonizing hustler as Mungiki radicalisation of Gema. The first to bolt are women, farmers, and anybody who owns anything even a wheelbarrow :) Basically ANY WHIFF of violence make RV diaspora shiver cause they know it won't stop with "dynasties" but swiftly morph into tribe and clan. Start inciting violence and see Kiambaa Nazi gas chambers all over YouTube. People may start with class but default to tribal DNA in the end - before they become raw beast and eat their kids.
PEV MOAS are very very bad for Mobutu.
Kikuyus are more aware of the consequences of class warfare than other tribes. We had mungiki, which started by demanding fees from the rich since they're few they had to charge almost everyone. What squashed mungiki was local vigilantes especially in areas like kirinyaga. The hustler "movement" risk being branded as new mungiki and that'll make most kikuyus especially 30yrs and older recoil. I am yet to understand wheelbarrow economics as it pertains to economic policy. Pro poor economic policy would be less government, less regulations, liberalization, low taxes, empowering of informal kadogo economy etc.
How do you proscribe a mass movement. Uhuru has tried with security council and they ended having to block and tear-gas churches. And it didn't work. Hustlers are all over. This is not Mungiki - a gang. This is mass hustler movement. Moi tried all tricks with NARC revolution and it' didn't work.There's a world of difference between dismantling privileges and cronyism and class warfare. Almost everyone would support dismantling privileges and cronyism. But inciting war between the haves vs have-nots irrespective of how wealth was acquired would lead to complete catastrophe. Dynasty now seems to mean anyone who has acquired wealth, and therein lies the danger. If hustler is a movement then the way to proscribe it is to brand it as mungiki in central. The solution to inequalities in Kenya is less government and bureaucrats influence in the economy. Simple things like street food in Kenya are banned while in Asia street foods is huge and now its even a tourist attraction.
The Hustler Nation is not Mungiki - a sect - it's a formative stage of class mass revolution. If mishandled it could be bad. If handled well - it could lead to good things.Kikuyus are more aware of the consequences of class warfare than other tribes. We had mungiki, which started by demanding fees from the rich since they're few they had to charge almost everyone. What squashed mungiki was local vigilantes especially in areas like kirinyaga. The hustler "movement" risk being branded as new mungiki and that'll make most kikuyus especially 30yrs and older recoil. I am yet to understand wheelbarrow economics as it pertains to economic policy. Pro poor economic policy would be less government, less regulations, liberalization, low taxes, empowering of informal kadogo economy etc.
There's a world of difference between dismantling privileges and cronyism and class warfare. Almost everyone would support dismantling privileges and cronyism. But inciting war between the haves vs have-nots irrespective of how wealth was acquired would lead to complete catastrophe. Dynasty now seems to mean anyone who has acquired wealth, and therein lies the danger. If hustler is a movement then the way to proscribe it is to brand it as mungiki in central. The solution to inequalities in Kenya is less government and bureaucrats influence in the economy. Simple things like street food in Kenya are banned while in Asia street foods is huge and now its even a tourist attraction.
Let me tell you a little story about 2007. Nobody was planning violence. People were planning huge celebratory parties. They knew ODM was winning big. By day one Raila had nearly a million gap - I personally went to celebrate in the bar -:) - and then kidogo kidogo - I heard from someone sitting next to me - that Transmara there were fightings - Ngong won and Maasai had started war - then kidogo kidogo - the mood of people change to sombre - except for my dad. I went home for lunch - and I see my father is only happy one - telling everyone - I told you so :) :) - and I rushed to watch the TV - I see shell-shocked Raila, Ruto and company :) The gap had reduced overnight from nearly 1M to 200K - and Kibaki strongholds had not started coming in - what followed was quick descend into anarchy - Kibaki got sworned in 6-7pm - my friend from Olessos Nandi calls me - and says he sees 1,000 plus warrior heading to Burnt Forest - the next morning my father calls me - and tell me my cousin who had a taxi in litein town had been shot by cops - after violence - and then by mid-day we hear of Kiambaa church. The descend was so fast.
The hustler nation are not even aware that violence is going to happen. They are on a winning streak
Even Hutu-Tutsi all was great until the plane got shot down.
If you think you'll see a revolution or war coming - then you have my IQ.
Most of the time it will happen so "fast" - but it was already out there - and just needed a trigger. You don't know what the trigger will be - but trust me there is no time to organize and strategize.
2022 - we have two possibilities - tribal or class warfare or both - if Uhuru mismanages his transition - by blocking the popular Ruto from taking over. When will it happen - nobody knows. It will just be one trigger.
I agree with the premise of revolution - with your usual blinkers and jaundiced twists
1. Narrative: No, Mobutu hustler does not have a "winning streak" - what are you smoking? Straight from Kibra dog-beating to Jubilee and parliament rout. Now they are totally sidelined in BBI as Naivasha sneak in few "editorial" changes - for disabled senators to appease Isaac Mwauras. I been telling you to show-case something in Murang'a, Naivasha, Murang'a by-eletions. Instead your darling MK is confused, shadow-boxing and MIA - anything but shoring up his clout. Hustler has not won anything except in your echo chamber.
2. Battle of wits: Revolution usually happen with Kibaki kind of fool vs foxy Raila - you don't have this now cause Raila has outsmarted Mobutu. With tribal DNA fissures sealed - Mobutu only path is class - but BBI blank cheque is running away with youth, women, MCA and whatnot. Now Gema have more seats, imperial PORK pretty intact, .. - maybe Mobutu can incite cops for not being independent :)
3. Numbers: Mobutu is being skinned fair & square - long before any machinery properly kick in. If they rig it will be Magufuli- style. There is no violence in TZ because the majority are happy or so-so - only few Chadema diehards are whining in pressers and twitter.
4. Last and most importantly: Robina iQ is twice Pundit's iQ... donge? I can see as giraffe there will be no revolution soon. Except usual PEV Kalenjin warriors vs diaspora - with very bad outcome for Mobutu. Kalenjin are as entitled to power as Gema - minus the numbers- strategy- calm to execute - expect usual Nazi madness and maybe ICC.Let me tell you a little story about 2007. Nobody was planning violence. People were planning huge celebratory parties. They knew ODM was winning big. By day one Raila had nearly a million gap - I personally went to celebrate in the bar -:) - and then kidogo kidogo - I heard from someone sitting next to me - that Transmara there were fightings - Ngong won and Maasai had started war - then kidogo kidogo - the mood of people change to sombre - except for my dad. I went home for lunch - and I see my father is only happy one - telling everyone - I told you so :) :) - and I rushed to watch the TV - I see shell-shocked Raila, Ruto and company :) The gap had reduced overnight from nearly 1M to 200K - and Kibaki strongholds had not started coming in - what followed was quick descend into anarchy - Kibaki got sworned in 6-7pm - my friend from Olessos Nandi calls me - and says he sees 1,000 plus warrior heading to Burnt Forest - the next morning my father calls me - and tell me my cousin who had a taxi in litein town had been shot by cops - after violence - and then by mid-day we hear of Kiambaa church. The descend was so fast.
The hustler nation are not even aware that violence is going to happen. They are on a winning streak
Even Hutu-Tutsi all was great until the plane got shot down.
If you think you'll see a revolution or war coming - then you have my IQ.
Most of the time it will happen so "fast" - but it was already out there - and just needed a trigger. You don't know what the trigger will be - but trust me there is no time to organize and strategize.
2022 - we have two possibilities - tribal or class warfare or both - if Uhuru mismanages his transition - by blocking the popular Ruto from taking over. When will it happen - nobody knows. It will just be one trigger.
That hustler koolaid we need to see in Msambweni not rallies. Matiba, Besigye, Tsivangirai and Tundu Lissu are sterling samples.
You dismissed MCA byelections - and MPs/influencers - as inconsequnetial or cowed. I dismiss crowds because BBI is more solid strategy.
Can we agree to compare notes after Msambweni? Or are there no hustlers down there?