Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: KenyanPlato on March 04, 2020, 06:57:14 AM
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I would vote for trump before I vote for Biden or anyone associated with that fraud Obama
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Lol. I mailed in for Sanders too. But I don't think Obama is a fraud... the Establishment is scared Sanders's radical ideas would tank them in Congress. That's a miscalculation imho.
The DNC clearly missed the Clinton lesson where they rigged her in and Sanders's base boycotted while some went for Trump. I see a very likely repeat of that in November.
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In 2016 the DNC would send Clinton advanced copies of the debate questions... it was brazen rigging. Dems lost everything - WH, Congress, most states. I don't know what wisdom justifies their shenanigans today. They are peddling the same down-ballot narrative. Or like Kadame says they simply don't care and prefer Trump over Sanders.
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What is the definition of a fraud to you? Kindly use words you understand.
You can be against his policies, but do not get personal on a man who run the US for 8 years and not even one scandal can be associated with his term in office.
I would vote for trump before I vote for Biden or anyone associated with that fraud Obama
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They will lose of course
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
We can see through you fake concern.
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
Trump is good for business bad for leeches.
We can see through you fake concern.
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Trump is good for business bad for leeches.
There you have it folks :D
Amejitoa mwenyewe hadharani
Bernie is a socialist so you should have been relieved by the primary results like the rest of America.
Black skin, white mask
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
We can see through you fake concern.
You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
We can see through you fake concern.
You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
The amount of information they hide from him daily is staggering. They don't want to tell him many things because he will destroy USA with his impulsivity. So far he is borrrowing to the tune of $1.5 trillion a year. Bad for middle class and long term viability of USA. Imagine another 4yrs.... Dept of Injustice, Homeland Insecurity....Trump house not White House...Of course FBI will be full of cronies....just like congress and now the Supreme Court.
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Too bad for you bro. Biden is the next President that's why Trump is scared of him. When American people look at both of them standing side by side, who do you think they are going to pick. They are about the same height, one is yellow and obese, they other one is a thin and lean white man. Trump was just lucky he ran against Hilary who was a woman and unpopular. This time Biden is going to get all women, minorities plus a few moderate to progressive white men. Trump will only get those stupid white nationalists. Obama is the right there with Lincoln and Geroge Washington.
I would vote for trump before I vote for Biden or anyone associated with that fraud Obama
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You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
The American people have made it clear they don't want a REVOLUTION. Things are going good for majority of Americans.
It has never been better economically in the States; young & old, white & black, educated & uneducated, everyone is doing well. So what is exactly Bernie offering ? More taxes for shit we don't want. Sorry
Healthcare issue won't be solved by creating medicare for all, it is way too simplistic a liberal trope. The real issue is healthcare in this country costs way too much. The problem is one of COST, and it keeps growing. It will bankrupt the government eventually. Employers keep raising premiums every year, I experienced it. America is too big and complex for a government run healthcare.
Biden is no war hawk, America is tired of wars. Trump is more racist what are you going to do, Trump is mentally ill witness his twitter tirades, so you can't deceive us. Most of you want Trump to win, that is why Biden surge caused you heartburn.
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The amount of information they hide from him daily is staggering. They don't want to tell him many things because he will destroy USA with his impulsivity. So far he is borrrowing to the tune of $1.5 trillion a year. Bad for middle class and long term viability of USA. Imagine another 4yrs.... Dept of Injustice, Homeland Insecurity....Trump house not White House...Of course FBI will be full of cronies....just like congress and now the Supreme Court.
Agreed. And they want to risk a weak socialist candidate against Trumpf. They are secret Trump lovers, only way to explain their Bernie love. Kenyanplato is open about it.
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Too bad for you bro. Biden is the next President that's why Trump is scared of him. When American people look at both of them standing side by side, who do you think they are going to pick. They are about the same height, one is yellow and obese, they other one is a thin and lean white man. Trump was just lucky he ran against Hilary who was a woman and unpopular. This time Biden is going to get all women, minorities plus a few moderate to progressive white men. Trump will only get those stupid white nationalists. Obama is the right there with Lincoln and Geroge Washington.
I would vote for trump before I vote for Biden or anyone associated with that fraud Obama
Don't bother with that old fool it is that okuyu reflexive Jaluo hatred/fear that is rearing its ugly head. :D
Anything involving Jaluo and they can't function or think straight. They are petrified of Luos. Uthamaki are weak people.
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
We can see through you fake concern.
You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
So in your mind, unless you vote for Bernie, it means you are okay with Trump? I think you can like Bernie and still see reasons why his ticket is a losing one in the general election. IMO Democrats don't have a viable option of extremism that Republicans have. It's a party built on inclusion, while the Republican party has perfected exclusion. Just look at any Congressional pictures of the two parties.
The idea that Joe Biden was once a racist is hilarious. Not a single racist bone in that guy's body.
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
We can see through you fake concern.
You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
So in your mind, unless you vote for Bernie, it means you are okay with Trump? I think you can like Bernie and still see reasons why his ticket is a losing one in the general election. IMO Democrats don't have a viable option of extremism that Republicans have. It's a party built on inclusion, while the Republican party has perfected exclusion. Just look at any Congressional pictures of the two parties.
The idea that Joe Biden was once a racist is hilarious. Not a single racist bone in that guy's body.
Where did you get that notion from what I said, though? Literally just said the opposite, so I'm confused.
Biden worked with segregationists to prevent bussing integration, it's one of the things Kamala went after him for. If you don't believe he has a problem, cognitively, then he has also lied that he was arrested for Mandela: likely only to counter Bernie's being arrested in the civil rights movement. Is he a Black hater? No. That's why I said he has a racist past, not that he's racist today. It's a minus against him in my books when comparing him to others. Does it mean I think he's worse than Trump? Of course not. Again, I literally just said I'll support him in that scenario. I'd support anyone else except Bloomberg.
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The amount of information they hide from him daily is staggering. They don't want to tell him many things because he will destroy USA with his impulsivity. So far he is borrrowing to the tune of $1.5 trillion a year. Bad for middle class and long term viability of USA. Imagine another 4yrs.... Dept of Injustice, Homeland Insecurity....Trump house not White House...Of course FBI will be full of cronies....just like congress and now the Supreme Court.
Agreed. And they want to risk a weak socialist candidate against Trumpf. They are secret Trump lovers, only way to explain their Bernie love. Kenyanplato is open about it.
You are a typical establishment shill. You don't even know Biden's record on war: enuff said. I'll support Stacey Abrams or his VP. Otherwise, support for him from me--not that I can cast a ballot anyway, but my family can--is just to prevent Trump from deporting dreamers as far as I'm concerned; not a vote for Biden but against Trump.
Also, this:
Healthcare issue won't be solved by creating medicare for all, it is way too simplistic a liberal trope. The real issue is healthcare in this country costs way too much. The problem is one of COST, and it keeps growing. It will bankrupt the government eventually. Employers keep raising premiums every year, I experienced it. America is too big and complex for a government run healthcare.
is frankly nonsense. The COST is due (1) to the premiums/co-pays/deductibles--basically profits for shareholders of the insurance companies and admin costs of up to 40%: both of them would be eliminated in a single payer scheme where the govt is the insurer, and (2) pharmaceutical companies setting the prices of drugs as they please because the U.S. is the only Western govt that doesn't negotiate drug prices: Americans pay 10 times for drugs as much as other people.
All that is resolved by having one insurer who is the govt and who the pharms MUST negotiate with.
You are just giving a far-right argument better argued by people like Ron Paul and Ted Cruz who oppose such a program on a philosophy of selfishness rather than economics. Yale doctors/researchers just recently published in the lancet a study that shows Med4all would decrease costs of healthcare. The only credible argument against this is that u think law-makers would block it--their donors are exactly those corporations that are now profiting off of this system at everyone else's expense, but to give this right-wing talking point is ridiculous.
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
We can see through you fake concern.
You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
The amount of information they hide from him daily is staggering. They don't want to tell him many things because he will destroy USA with his impulsivity. So far he is borrrowing to the tune of $1.5 trillion a year. Bad for middle class and long term viability of USA. Imagine another 4yrs.... Dept of Injustice, Homeland Insecurity....Trump house not White House...Of course FBI will be full of cronies....just like congress and now the Supreme Court.
Exactly! He ran a fake populist campaign in 2016, but once in, ended up serving the same master. He's gone on overdrive with the culture thing, being super anti-immigrant, because he gives the poor nothing. That's the establishment mode of operation. They call social programs nuts but are quite happy to throw money at unnecessary wars and tax cuts for those who don't need extra money. Tis amazing.
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You all secretly want Trump to win :D :D you are disappointed coz you thought Bernie would steamroll through, and hand over the presidency on a platter to Trumpf ;)
We can see through you fake concern.
You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
So in your mind, unless you vote for Bernie, it means you are okay with Trump? I think you can like Bernie and still see reasons why his ticket is a losing one in the general election. IMO Democrats don't have a viable option of extremism that Republicans have. It's a party built on inclusion, while the Republican party has perfected exclusion. Just look at any Congressional pictures of the two parties.
The idea that Joe Biden was once a racist is hilarious. Not a single racist bone in that guy's body.
Where did you get that notion from what I said, though? Literally just said the opposite, so I'm confused.
Biden worked with segregationists to prevent bussing integration, it's one of the things Kamala went after him for. If you don't believe he has a problem, cognitively, then he has also lied that he was arrested for Mandela: likely only to counter Bernie's being arrested in the civil rights movement. Is he a Black hater? No. That's why I said he has a racist past, not that he's racist today. It's a minus against him in my books when comparing him to others. Does it mean I think he's worse than Trump? Of course not. Again, I literally just said I'll support him in that scenario. I'd support anyone else except Bloomberg.
I totally misread your post and conflated it with some other stuff you mentioned about the Dem establishment willing to lose to Trump than let Bernie win on another thread. One reason I prefer one thread-one topic. I take that back.
Biden opposing school busing because black kids shouldn't be with white kids in the same school? I haven't looked into that Kamala Harris claim but I am sure there is a less offensive and more plausible explanation for whatever vote he took.
On a separate note, Kamala Harris is among the least qualified to talk about concern for minorities. I know you enjoy reading. When you get chance google Kevin Cooper whose ass is still on death-row in a California prison. I cannot stand that woman.
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Kamala is a witch, ye! Btw her and Bloomberg, Idk who's worse. I guess her sociopathic actions were motivated by sheer ambition whereas Bloomberg is an uncomplicated, old-style racist. However, Biden did oppose bussing, lies abt Mandela/Apartheid (though I still insist this is confusion rather than lying, putting everything in context) and pushed for the 90s crime bill/drugs stuff that decimated the AA community, along with Hillary. I honestly believe the only reason Black pple feel comfortable with him is his association with Obama, but Obama chose him in 2008 to win over Whites who would otherwise feel uncomfortable voting for a Black guy. I absolutely do not think he's racist, I just don't believe that he ever gave two cents abt Black pple. It's better than Trump, Bloomberg etc. It just doesn't inspire my enthusiastic support. He's also libertarian. Virtually no diff btw him and say, George Bush Jr.
I see the DNC as the bonafide Republican, conservative party whereas the RNC has turned fascist-ish. There's no Left party in the U.S.
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Kamala is a witch, ye! Btw her and Bloomberg, Idk who's worse. I guess her sociopathic actions were motivated by sheer ambition whereas Bloomberg is an uncomplicated, old-style racist. However, Biden did oppose bussing, lies abt Mandela/Apartheid (though I still insist this is confusion rather than lying, putting everything in context) and pushed for the 90s crime bill/drugs stuff that decimated the AA community, along with Hillary. I honestly believe the only reason Black pple feel comfortable with him is his association with Obama, but Obama chose him in 2008 to win over Whites who would otherwise feel uncomfortable voting for a Black guy. I absolutely do not think he's racist, I just don't believe that he ever gave two cents abt Black pple. It's better than Trump, Bloomberg etc. It just doesn't inspire my enthusiastic support. He's also libertarian. Virtually no diff btw him and say, George Bush Jr.
I see the DNC as the bonafide Republican, conservative party whereas the RNC has turned fascist-ish. There's no Left party in the U.S.
Good, let America remain a beacon of free market economics and laissez faire capitalism. Not every country has to follow the failed leftist socialist model. Leftist inspired socialism is what has made Venezuela and other Latin American countries into basket cases.
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Kamala is a witch, ye! Btw her and Bloomberg, Idk who's worse. I guess her sociopathic actions were motivated by sheer ambition whereas Bloomberg is an uncomplicated, old-style racist. However, Biden did oppose bussing, lies abt Mandela/Apartheid (though I still insist this is confusion rather than lying, putting everything in context) and pushed for the 90s crime bill/drugs stuff that decimated the AA community, along with Hillary. I honestly believe the only reason Black pple feel comfortable with him is his association with Obama, but Obama chose him in 2008 to win over Whites who would otherwise feel uncomfortable voting for a Black guy. I absolutely do not think he's racist, I just don't believe that he ever gave two cents abt Black pple. It's better than Trump, Bloomberg etc. It just doesn't inspire my enthusiastic support. He's also libertarian. Virtually no diff btw him and say, George Bush Jr.
I see the DNC as the bonafide Republican, conservative party whereas the RNC has turned fascist-ish. There's no Left party in the U.S.
Biden rode the train to Washington for 30yrs, when serving Delaware. A very humble guy.
Even Bloomberg rode the train some mornings when he was mayor of NYC. He made NYC what it is now after 911. One of the bst mayors for 12yrs
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Biden rode the train to Washington for 30yrs, when serving Delaware. A very humble guy.
Even Bloomberg rode the train some mornings when he was mayor of NYC. He made NYC what it is now after 911. One of the best mayors for 12yrs
What do you make of his willful targetting of Brown/Black people in the stop and frisk thing? I really don't see how he could be defended if you listen to his audios. He sounds like a straight-up, bonafide old-style racist who doesn't so much 'hate' non-Whites as just frankly sees them as/fully believes they are inferior, roho safi tu. He knew the effects but was ok with it because he sees criminality as inherent in Black/Brown DNA but not White DNA.
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Kamala is a witch, ye! Btw her and Bloomberg, Idk who's worse. I guess her sociopathic actions were motivated by sheer ambition whereas Bloomberg is an uncomplicated, old-style racist. However, Biden did oppose bussing, lies abt Mandela/Apartheid (though I still insist this is confusion rather than lying, putting everything in context) and pushed for the 90s crime bill/drugs stuff that decimated the AA community, along with Hillary. I honestly believe the only reason Black pple feel comfortable with him is his association with Obama, but Obama chose him in 2008 to win over Whites who would otherwise feel uncomfortable voting for a Black guy. I absolutely do not think he's racist, I just don't believe that he ever gave two cents abt Black pple. It's better than Trump, Bloomberg etc. It just doesn't inspire my enthusiastic support. He's also libertarian. Virtually no diff btw him and say, George Bush Jr.
I see the DNC as the bonafide Republican, conservative party whereas the RNC has turned fascist-ish. There's no Left party in the U.S.
Biden's opposition to busing as far I can tell was about methods of desegregation rather than any meaningful disagreement with desegregation. His crime bill legislation was just that. Tough on crime. The communities most affected by crime were black. You can have a well intended bill, that turns out to be a disaster in practice. The outcome is at odds with the intention. Having followed Biden since the 90s in real time, way before anyone knew of Obama, I am inclined to go with the more innocent explanations.
The "Mandela lies" are fact-checked here https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/biden-admits-he-was-stopped-not-arrested-in-south-africa/. It seems like a lot of ado about semantics and embellishments.
Biden, Feb. 28: And here’s the deal, I was with a black delegation, the CBC, the Congressional Black Caucus. They had me get off a plane. The Afrikaners got on in their short pants and their guns, let me off for — led me off first and moved me in a direction totally different. I turned around and everybody — the entire black delegation was going another way. I said, I’m not going to go in that door that says white only. I’m going with them. They said, you’re not. You can’t move.
You can’t go with them. And they — and they kept me there until finally I decided they were clear I wasn’t going to move. And so what they finally did, they said, OK, they’ll not going to make the congressional delegation go through the black door. They’re not going to make me go through the white door. They went — took us out — if my memory serves me, through a baggage claim area up to a restaurant and they cleared out a restaurant.
I felt strongly about apartheid. One of the reasons we were there. And after — long after this, when Nelson Mandela was freed and came to the United States, he came in my office. He was one of the most incredible men I ever met. He sat down in my office and thanked me — thanked me for trying to — all the work I did on apartheid.
And so that’s — that’s the context of it. When I said arrested, I meant I was not able to — I was not able to move. Cops, Afrikaners, would not let me go with them. Made me stay where I was. I guess I wasn’t arrested, I was stopped. I was not able to move where I wanted to go.
As a campaign dig, a racist tag on Biden, whether current or past, just seems like scraping at the bottom.
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Biden rode the train to Washington for 30yrs, when serving Delaware. A very humble guy.
Even Bloomberg rode the train some mornings when he was mayor of NYC. He made NYC what it is now after 911. One of the best mayors for 12yrs
What do you make of his willful targetting of Brown/Black people in the stop and frisk thing? I really don't see how he could be defended if you listen to his audios. He sounds like a straight-up, bonafide old-style racist who doesn't so much 'hate' non-Whites as just frankly sees them as/fully believes they are inferior, roho safi tu. He knew the effects but was ok with it because he sees criminality as inherent in Black/Brown DNA but not White DNA.
Bloomberg is probably just a regular white person. He has racial bias but is not conscious of it. Once he becomes aware of it, he works to tamp it down. That is not necessarily racist, but simply being a product of his environment. Because even black people have it against fellow black people. So his racial insensitivity could be misconstrued for racism.
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Biden rode the train to Washington for 30yrs, when serving Delaware. A very humble guy.
Even Bloomberg rode the train some mornings when he was mayor of NYC. He made NYC what it is now after 911. One of the best mayors for 12yrs
What do you make of his willful targetting of Brown/Black people in the stop and frisk thing? I really don't see how he could be defended if you listen to his audios. He sounds like a straight-up, bonafide old-style racist who doesn't so much 'hate' non-Whites as just frankly sees them as/fully believes they are inferior, roho safi tu. He knew the effects but was ok with it because he sees criminality as inherent in Black/Brown DNA but not White DNA.
If you lived in NYC at that time, youll understand. He did not do it out of racism, rather community demanded it. The number of gun related murders committed by young people was staggering. Community wanted strong reaction, and soon there were few guns related murders. Problem is that he did not stop it soon enough. Bloomberg is a pragmatist, not an ideologue.
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Biden rode the train to Washington for 30yrs, when serving Delaware. A very humble guy.
Even Bloomberg rode the train some mornings when he was mayor of NYC. He made NYC what it is now after 911. One of the best mayors for 12yrs
What do you make of his willful targetting of Brown/Black people in the stop and frisk thing? I really don't see how he could be defended if you listen to his audios. He sounds like a straight-up, bonafide old-style racist who doesn't so much 'hate' non-Whites as just frankly sees them as/fully believes they are inferior, roho safi tu. He knew the effects but was ok with it because he sees criminality as inherent in Black/Brown DNA but not White DNA.
Bloomberg is probably just a regular white person. He has racial bias but is not conscious of it. Once he becomes aware of it, he works to tamp it down. That is not necessarily racist, but simply being a product of his environment. Because even black people have it against fellow black people. So his racial insensitivity could be misconstrued for racism.
EXACLY!!!
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That version you quoted came after Biden was fact-checked after telling that story several times; the media found no records and people with him to back it up, and the US Ambassador in SA at the time expressed extreme doubt that anything like that could've happened to an American congressman. Then the explanation came, it wasnt arrest, but something else. I'm ok with the idea that happened and Biden exaggerated it to make it look like he was a similar civil rights-type fighter for Blacks back then. PS: He said he was arrested trying to visit Mandela and mentioned Soweto and Robben Island; none of the details made sense.
Bloomberg's is worse. We're not talking 30/40 years ago but just a short while ago in New York of all places. It's much more likely his recent shift when running a national election campaign is just saving face, and only after the audios were released online. I don't know regular White people who say things like he was saying apart from people I argue with from the alt-right. They'd be more cautious, unless we were talking 30 years ago. He is in his 70s, just a regular old-style racist who never changed his mind. Hate him? No. But I don't see how he's any better than Trump.
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This is what Biden said be4:
Mr Biden - at the time a senator for Delaware - said he had been visiting the country with a delegation of American officials, and had planned to visit Mandela in prison.
But during the trip, Mr Biden said he had "had the great honour of being arrested with our UN ambassador on the streets of Soweto" while trying to reach the civil rights leader on Robben Island. The town of Soweto is more than 760 miles (1,223km) from Robben Island.
At a black history awards brunch in Las Vegas last week, he also said Mandela had thanked him for his efforts.
"He threw his arms around me and said, 'I want to say thank you,'" Mr Biden told onlookers. "I said, 'What are you thanking me for, Mr President?' He said: 'You tried to see me. You got arrested trying to see me.'"
That's def not the same story: And how would Mandela know/say this if Biden never actually got arrested for him? Apparently no one else in S.A. or the U.S. knew abt this but Mandela and Biden.
Mr Biden's account of what happened has been rebuffed by Andrew Young, the US ambassador to the UN at the time, who says he travelled with Mr Biden to South Africa.
Local media have also failed to find any evidence of an arrest being made.
Fact-checkers at the Washington Post called the claim "ridiculous" on Tuesday as they awarded it four Pinocchios.
On Tuesday Mr Biden's deputy campaign manager, Kate Bedingfield, told reporters Mr Biden had been referring to an incident when "he was separated from his party at Johannesburg airport".
When a journalist noted that being separated did not equate with an arrest, Ms Bedingfield repeated that it had been a "separation".
"They, he was not allowed to go through the same door that the - the rest of the party he was with," said Ms Bedingfield. "Obviously, it was apartheid South Africa. There was a white door, there was a black door. He did not want to go through the white door and have the rest of the party go through the black door. He was separated."
I don't know how going through a separate door from Black people at an airport 760 miles away from Robben Island, in a country with racial segregation policies, could possibly be described as "I was arrested with the UN Ambassador trying to see Mandela on the streets of Soweto."
The best way to see that is genuine confusion due to his cognitive issue. Otherwise, he made up a story for S. Carolina to counter Bernie's arrest marching with Dr. King during the civil rights movement.
The version you quoted is more similar to what Biden told in 2013 when he was completely fine, which was brought up to his campaign in the fact-check, as a challenge to the story he was telling:
The account echoes earlier comments made by Mr Biden, but a statement he made in 2013 gives a different account of his trip.
"When I exited the plane I was directed to one side of the tarmac, while the African American congressmen travelling with me were sent to the other side," said Mr Biden. "I refused to break off, and the officials finally relented."
He has faced scrutiny for his verbal gaffes and his long and sometimes controversial political career, including his vote in favour of the Iraq war.
Republicans have been hammering away at him for his son's lucrative board position with a Ukrainian natural gas firm when he was vice-president and in charge of American-Ukrainian relations. The issue was central to the Trump impeachment case.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51648166
So it's only after all this fact-checking^^^ of him that Biden finally told the version you were quoting which is likely closer to what actually happened (though this time adding he was stopped/intimidated and whatnot). Ima stick to he genuinely mixed stuff up in his head as it aligns with him mixing other stuff up like claiming to negotiate the climate deal with a Chinese leader who died in 1997. That 2013 version is in Biden's statement on Mandela's death. He mentions entering Soweto:
When I tried to enter Soweto township with Congressmen Andrew Young of Atlanta and Charles Diggs of Detroit, I remember their tears of anger and sadness.
But given he came up with it just one month ago while campaigning in S. Carolina, it's still very possible he simply made it up.
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What do you know? Even that story/version in the quote that he told after the fact (in which he was separated from Black congressmen and refused) seems to be fake.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/25/bidens-ridiculous-claim-he-was-arrested-trying-see-mandela/
Update, Feb. 26: Biden communications director Kate Bedingfield offered a puzzling explanation to reporters after the tenth Democratic debate. “He was separated from the [Congressional Black Caucus] members he was traveling with at the airport, when he landed,” she said, in trying to explain the supposed arrest. “It was a separation. He was not allowed to go through the same door as the rest of the party he was with. Obviously, this was apartheid South Africa. There was a white door. There was a black door. He did not want to go through the white door, and have the rest of the party go to the black door. He was separated." As we noted above, congressional delegations at the time did not land in South Africa but in Lesotho, a kingdom that achieved independence in 1966.
Update, Feb. 28: Biden himself was finally asked about this alleged incident, during an interview with CNN, and acknowledged he was not arrested: “I wasn’t arrested, I was stopped. I was not able to move where I wanted to go." He repeated a convoluted explanation about being stopped by South Africans, even though he was traveling to Lesotho:
“They had me get off a plane -- the Afrikaners got on in the short pants and their guns. Lead me off first and moved me in a direction totally different. I turned around and everybody, the entire black delegation, was going another way. I said, ‘I’m not going to go in that door that says white only. I’m going with them.’ They said, ‘You’re not, you can’t move, you can’t go with them.’ And they kept me there until finally I decided that it was clear I wasn’t going to move.”
After Biden’s remarks to CNN, The Fact Checker reached a white member of the mostly-black congressional delegation -- then Rep. Don Bonker (D-Wash.). Bonker, who said he strongly supports Biden for president, said he had “no recollection at all" of such an incident at the airport. “We had no problem with airports at any of the countries we visited,” he said, noting Biden "wasn’t the only white guy on the trip.” (Four of the 11 members of the delegation flying on an Air Force jet were white, according to news reports.) Bonker also said such a confrontation was unlikely in Lesotho because it was an African-run country that did not have apartheid.
The Pinocchio Test
Biden has never been shy about tooting his own horn. So it’s pretty surprising that on the eve of a primary critical to his election hopes, he suddenly recalls being arrested in South Africa — and being thanked by Mandela for being arrested. There is no evidence for either claim; neither appears remotely credible. Biden earns Four Pinocchios.
As I said, kindest way to see this is he got everything badly mixed up. But it def looks like he made it up for political reasons given timing. Even this story he told CNN is false: Afrikaaners wouldn't have been harassing him at a Lesotho airport, nor would Black congressmen have made to go through a separate door, as those who accompanied him attest- they also recall never experiencing anything like that (being separated from Blacks based on race at an airport). The UN Ambassador recalls being stopped once in Lesotho on one occasion in 76, but it had nothing to do with Apartheid S.A.
Biden has also mentioned being thanked (along with others) by Mandela before for his work in a Foreign Committee (I believe at Congress) that was in charge of sanctioning Apartheid South Africa. But this story about a private meeting in which Mandela emotionally hugged him for being arrested for trying to see him is either a clear lie or evidence of serious confusion.
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I don't know what the Mandela angle is supposed to accomplish. As far I can see there is enough meat on the story for either side to stick to their version. Especially if there was a separation from his colleagues. It just doesn't seem politically relevant.
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I don't know what the Mandela angle is supposed to accomplish. As far I can see there is enough meat on the story for either side to stick to their version. Especially if there was a separation from his colleagues. It just doesn't seem politically relevant.
It was a Lesotho airport and there was no separation. It just never happened.
You don't think it's at least ugly to make up a false 'civil rights hero' story? He never suffered for Black people and is now pretending he did. If he's confused, that's forgivable, but not if he's making it up.
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I don't know what the Mandela angle is supposed to accomplish. As far I can see there is enough meat on the story for either side to stick to their version. Especially if there was a separation from his colleagues. It just doesn't seem politically relevant.
It was a Lesotho airport and there was no separation. It just never happened.
You don't think it's at least ugly to make up a false 'civil rights hero' story?
Of course it's unbecoming. But these guys are not saints. And in 2020, where the oval office occupant tells a demonstrable lie every time he opens his mouth, a fib about an event decades in the past is not going to hurt Biden.
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I don't know what the Mandela angle is supposed to accomplish. As far I can see there is enough meat on the story for either side to stick to their version. Especially if there was a separation from his colleagues. It just doesn't seem politically relevant.
It was a Lesotho airport and there was no separation. It just never happened.
You don't think it's at least ugly to make up a false 'civil rights hero' story?
Of course it's unbecoming. But these guys are not saints. And in 2020, where the oval office occupant tells a demonstrable lie every time he opens his mouth, a fib about an event decades in the past is not going to hurt Biden.
Well sure, it doesn't make him worse than Trump but it does justify my critique of him which you guys were protesting. I've also read up on his busing history and it doesn't seem innocent; just convenient/pragmatic and something he did out of pressure from his racist White constituents. Again, is he worse than Trump? Nope. But certainly no one I'd consider a friend to Black people in any special way beyond being VP to a Black President.
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I don't know what the Mandela angle is supposed to accomplish. As far I can see there is enough meat on the story for either side to stick to their version. Especially if there was a separation from his colleagues. It just doesn't seem politically relevant.
It was a Lesotho airport and there was no separation. It just never happened.
You don't think it's at least ugly to make up a false 'civil rights hero' story?
Of course it's unbecoming. But these guys are not saints. And in 2020, where the oval office occupant tells a demonstrable lie every time he opens his mouth, a fib about an event decades in the past is not going to hurt Biden.
Well sure, it doesn't make him worse than Trump but it does justify my critique of him which you guys were protesting. I've also read up on his busing history and it doesn't seem innocent; just convenient/pragmatic and something he did out of pressure from his racist White constituents. Again, is he worse than Trump? Nope. But certainly no one I'd consider a friend to Black people in any special way beyond being VP to a Black President.
If your critique is he has a racist past, I disagree. There was pressure from some racists. But it's possible to disagree with busing because you think a different approach to ending segregation is more appropriate.
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Ok, we can agree to disagree: To me, Biden was someone friendly with segregationists and more sympathetic to the concerns of his White constituents who did not want to integrate than Black people--so much he became their champion (those opposed). He also strongly dismissed the idea of reparations in the same terms the right does, "It's not my responsibility, sorry," (paraphrased), a champion of a bill that decimated Black people, and even today is not above making up stories abt the most revered Black heroes. I'm comfortable seeing him as a typical man of his day: One who strongly went along with racist agendas for political reasons: that qualifies as a racist past to me. He aint Trump, yes, only Bloomberg is comparable to Trump: i.e with a proud prejudiced attitude. But I just don't see a single reason to support him (Biden) besides, 'He's not Trump', and indeed that's my only reason for telling my family to vote 4 him. In addition his is a libertarian philosophy.
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I think being cognitive dissonant is worse than lying. Because leadership is about judgement more than honesty. Biden's incoherence and dubious past will be exposed at the next debate with Sanders. Sanders should hammer him hard for his Congressional record of NAFTA, Iraq and anti-welfare.
Is it true he recently mixed up his wife and sister? :) Trump will have a ball with the bloke.
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Is it true he recently mixed up his wife and sister? :)
He did but only for a split second, On watching it for myself, yesterday, I thought he may have just forgotten who was where as they were behind him rather than mixed them up per se. But Biden has mixed up a TON of things the past few months, in general. People keep calling them his typical 'gaffes' but old Joe gaffes were more about saying inappropriate/awkward things without thinking through ramifications. Never did they indicate he was somehow 'lost'/confused like this latest ones. I saw an interview he did on Sanders in 2016 during the Hillary stuff and I forgot abt the reason I was watching in the first place: He was just so present/sharp. It's not the same guy now running. It's possible he's just tired, though. I've heard someone on an interview say he's gotten sharper/energized since S. Carolina, but I don't buy it: the Declaration of Independence thing was just the other day. We'll see. Just watch for his VP pick, that's who matters most, IMO.
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Bernie had a literal heart attack. But that’s not why he’d lose in a general. He is an uncompromising ideologue. And apparently a dipshit who can’t even secure Elizabeth Warren’s endorsement. Think about that. And I know he has good heart(not the literal one duh).
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A dead president is easily replaced. No one knows what to do with a senile one: Read abt Reagan's decline in the 80s. Its a crisis in the making. I'll take a heart condition any day over dementia. People recover from heart problems, not dementia. My dad had Alzheimers and it's plain irresponsible to put that in charge of the country. They can't even be left alone and worse, it increases with stress which campaigning certainly involves.
Call Bernie dips* all you want, his civil rights creds are not in question, nor did he collude with segregationists nor try to cut social security over and over again, nor push/support a war that devastated countless people. His actions vouch for him.
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Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.
That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.
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Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.
That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.
That’s a possibility. Endorse Bernie and she is out of Biden VP stakes for instance. But she didn’t have much good to say about Bernie. A guy whose policies are identical to hers(minus actual plans). Just saying something good about him can’t possibly damage her potential deals elsewhere.
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You can tell who is a troll on this, tis crazy how deep Russian paid posters and alt right racists have infiltrated African boards. I caught a Chinese 50 cent army shit poster red handed yesterday when he broke cover. you can tell here how hard they go against Biden, Trumptards have id'ed as Joe as the most serious challenge to the Fuhrer so they are amplifying Sanders who is their ideal candidate to face in November.
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You can tell who is a troll on this, tis crazy how deep Russian paid posters and alt right racists have infiltrated African boards. I caught a Chinese 50 cent army shit poster red handed yesterday when he broke cover. you can tell here how hard they go against Biden, Trumptards have id'ed as Joe as the most serious challenge to the Fuhrer so they are amplifying Sanders who is their ideal candidate to face in November.
Conspiracy_Dreamer, is that what you're doing - hyping the hapless Biden so Trump can win? We can't all faithfully bow to your DNC idol... this is America not North Korea. It's called debating okay? Welcome to freedom.
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Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.
That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.
I doubt she would. She seems to have beef with Bernie, ever since she tried to #metoo him in Jan and no one believed her, lol, even Morning Joe on MSNBC was like c'mon. She's been bitter ever since and piled more easily debunked lies on him. Maybe she wanted Bernie to get behind her when she surged at around the time of his heart thing? Idk. In any case, I really doubt it'd help Bernie now: Might've been helpful be4 Super Tuesday as the Amy crew was gathering behind Biden. I think now it's 90% chance Biden is the nominee. If I were Bernie, I'd build a third party. Not to run for 2020 presidency necessarily but for other seats as well as to have an independent voice that can actually negotiate with the DNC to adopt its important agendas in exchange for support in the general. After all, the DNC keeps saying he's not really a Democrat, he might as well go all the way. It'd draw in a lot of independents too, and independent-leaning Republicans who favor economic populism. If progressives don't start their own party, they will be forever a voiceless footstool who are told point-blank that even if they win the votes they won't get the nomination.
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Lol. I mailed in for Sanders too. But I don't think Obama is a fraud... the Establishment is scared Sanders's radical ideas would tank them in Congress. That's a miscalculation imho.
The DNC clearly missed the Clinton lesson where they rigged her in and Sanders's base boycotted while some went for Trump. I see a very likely repeat of that in November.
Obama is part of establishment. He lobbied all the candidates to drop out and endorse Biden. What a fraud! Obama is fake. When he came to kenya instead of giving us more trade he started demanding we respect gays. Uhuru was right to tell him that homosexuality was a non issue in Kenya. By the way Africans have this philosophy that a kid born cannot be discarded and so it has to be given the ability to live even when it has traits that are not in norm. A lot of Kikuyus families have gay men that allowed to live their life underground. Binyanyanya wainana parents knew he was gay as hell but they let him be. my childhood friend uncle was gay and he lived in Mombasa. he would come home during christmas with a earing on his ear. His family would welcome him happily and feast him. He was our beloved uncle from Mombatha.. So for that son of gun to come and tell us as kikuyus to respect gays was insulting our people. he didn't know what the the fuck he was talking about. In kenya malayas and other social misfits are allowed to live without being harrassed by cops. In USA a whore will be arrested and harrassed by cops. African Americans are the most homophobic arseholes in the whole world. In Washington DC they are killing transgender Men like flies. Obama should first deal with shit in his own hood before he tries to talk shit about our kenyan culture. Fuck him again and again
Anyway fuck Obama, Fuck that havard uneducated disrespectful motherfucker.
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You can tell who is a troll on this, tis crazy how deep Russian paid posters and alt right racists have infiltrated African boards. I caught a Chinese 50 cent army shit poster red handed yesterday when he broke cover. you can tell here how hard they go against Biden, Trumptards have id'ed as Joe as the most serious challenge to the Fuhrer so they are amplifying Sanders who is their ideal candidate to face in November.
Conspiracy_Dreamer, is that what you're doing - hyping the hapless Biden so Trump can win? We can't all faithfully bow to your DNC idol... this is America not North Korea. It's called debating okay? Welcome to freedom.
:D :D I got my eyes on you now. There is a reason for Biden's extraordinary rise, Americans have realized he is the best democratic candidate to beat Trumpf in the general. Voters, pundits, markets, polls, all agree. You, Trumpf, Republicans & Neo Nazis want Sanders the socialist in the general 8) I wonder why.
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Looks like Biden was a Nigger-lover from way back.
The furor about Joe Biden’s race politics started as soon as he decided to run for office. As a candidate for the New Castle County Council in 1970, he made expanding public housing central to his campaign. Angry white residents, worried that poor black families would become their neighbors, gave Biden a derisive nickname.
“The first time the phone rang and someone said, ‘You nigger lover, you want them living next to you,’ I was shocked,’’ Biden told the Wilmington News Journal at the time.
On the black side of Wilmington, residents weren’t surprised. They had been using that provocative phrase to describe Biden for years, but as a term of affection.
“Joe was one of us,” recalled Richard Smith, 71, a black resident whom everyone here knows as “Mouse.” “We helped make him who he was.”
As Biden makes his third run for the presidency, he is once again trying to navigate the tricky terrain of race. His Democratic opponents have accused him of being on the wrong side of busing and crime legislation, as well as being overly accommodating to segregationist senators.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-a-wilmington-pool-pranks-nicknames-and-the-racial-education-of-joe-biden/2019/07/12/29fcc8fc-a191-11e9-b732-41a79c2551bf_story.html
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Obama is part of establishment. He lobbied all the candidates to drop out and endorse Biden. What a fraud! Obama is fake. When he came to kenya instead of giving us more trade he started demanding we respect gays. Uhuru was right to tell him that homosexuality was a non issue in Kenya. By the way Africans have this philosophy that a kid born cannot be discarded and so it has to be given the ability to live even when it has traits that are not in norm. A lot of Kikuyus families have gay men that allowed to live their life underground. Binyanyanya wainana parents knew he was gay as hell but they let him be. my childhood friend uncle was gay and he lived in Mombasa. he would come home during christmas with a earing on his ear. His family would welcome him happily and feast him. He was our beloved uncle from Mombatha.. So for that son of gun to come and tell us as kikuyus to respect gays was insulting our people. he didn't know what the the fuck he was talking about. In kenya malayas and other social misfits are allowed to live without being harrassed by cops. In USA a whore will be arrested and harrassed by cops. African Americans are the most homophobic arseholes in the whole world. In Washington DC they are killing transgender Men like flies. Obama should first deal with shit in his own hood before he tries to talk shit about our kenyan culture. Fuck him again and again
Anyway fuck Obama, Fuck that havard uneducated disrespectful motherfucker.
Lol that's alot of vitriol Plato. LGBTQ are human beings that need to be respected and protected from hypocritical psycos who think they speak for God. God created everyone in his own wisdom. Live and let leave, donge? At least that's my attitude to these matters.
Now onto the topic at hand - lobbying people to quit and back Biden is not fraud. It is legit politics. You can say Obama acted poorly and should have waited for the nominee to back him- instead of picking favorites. Judgement and choices. Fraud is like forwarding debate questions in advance to Hillary - mwakenya - happened for real in 2016. Also using superdelegates to crown a loser is fraudulent in a way. Hii ingine ni siasa tu ya kawaida.
Sanders must expose the unfairness of the DNC/establishment... and their corporate and MSM allies. Biden needs to be called out for his dubious record and logical incoherence. It will tank him if not now in the general elections.
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Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.
That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.
I doubt she would. She seems to have beef with Bernie, ever since she tried to #metoo him in Jan and no one believed her, lol, even Morning Joe on MSNBC was like c'mon. She's been bitter ever since and piled more easily debunked lies on him. Maybe she wanted Bernie to get behind her when she surged at around the time of his heart thing? Idk. In any case, I really doubt it'd help Bernie now: Might've been helpful be4 Super Tuesday as the Amy crew was gathering behind Biden. I think now it's 90% chance Biden is the nominee. If I were Bernie, I'd build a third party. Not to run for 2020 presidency necessarily but for other seats as well as to have an independent voice that can actually negotiate with the DNC to adopt its important agendas in exchange for support in the general. After all, the DNC keeps saying he's not really a Democrat, he might as well go all the way. It'd draw in a lot of independents too, and independent-leaning Republicans who favor economic populism. If progressives don't start their own party, they will be forever a voiceless footstool who are told point-blank that even if they win the votes they won't get the nomination.
I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.
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Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.
That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.
I doubt she would. She seems to have beef with Bernie, ever since she tried to #metoo him in Jan and no one believed her, lol, even Morning Joe on MSNBC was like c'mon. She's been bitter ever since and piled more easily debunked lies on him. Maybe she wanted Bernie to get behind her when she surged at around the time of his heart thing? Idk. In any case, I really doubt it'd help Bernie now: Might've been helpful be4 Super Tuesday as the Amy crew was gathering behind Biden. I think now it's 90% chance Biden is the nominee. If I were Bernie, I'd build a third party. Not to run for 2020 presidency necessarily but for other seats as well as to have an independent voice that can actually negotiate with the DNC to adopt its important agendas in exchange for support in the general. After all, the DNC keeps saying he's not really a Democrat, he might as well go all the way. It'd draw in a lot of independents too, and independent-leaning Republicans who favor economic populism. If progressives don't start their own party, they will be forever a voiceless footstool who are told point-blank that even if they win the votes they won't get the nomination.
I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.
Elizabeth Warren seems to be doing just fine as a progressive Democrat though. Bernie also caucuses with Democrats in congress. I suspect mostly because he can't help it. I mean the other option would be to support the Nazis. Does he have any plan on how to put his policies in place?
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I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.
Yes, the danger of running as a third-party in the general is that you're most likely going to help the pple farthest removed from your ideas/agenda. That's why I don't think they should necessarily run a presidential candidate of their own, except maybe as a threat only: "Give us a little something, like Med4all, and we throw our full weight behind you—Compromise, compromise."
The benefits of a bonafide American Labour Party that runs independently of the DNC is, of course, organizing and mobilizing which makes negotiations possible: You really can better control who your people back. When they're under a group with a very different agenda, they are fractured and voiceless: Weak. In addition, I think with the grassroots work done by Bernie in 2016 and now, it would be much better positioned than Gary Johnson, the Green Party etc. They simply don't have the level of recognition and support Bernie does: they'll prolly join his Labor Party if he forms it--Jill Stein would, not sure of Johnson. There is a significant chunk of Right-leaning pple who are into economic populism too: they just don't like the woke stuff. So if Bernie forms that party, you might just see a similarly significant thing start happening on the Right, i.e. another Party breaking away from the RNC: the RNC and DNC both maintain their choke-holds over huge swathes of the population by making each other the fearsome boogieman and selling this to their constituents 247 using their various MSMs. Or, maybe a chunk of Right economic populists may just join Bernie's party even if they dislike some stuff. It's either this or rolling over for the establishment for good, IMHO. It's worth a shot.
Bernie has a plan for every single social program he has proposed: How to fund it, how to take care of workers dependent on the old system who would be left out, and how to use the bully-pulpit of POTUS to push individual law-makers into supporting it for their own political survival. That's exactly how powerful lobies have been keeping them in line; they make it a matter of survival for them: "Support me or I'll fund your opponent." But POTUS can be used powerfully to campaign in these very states/districts: if these guys are exposed to their immediate constituents, showing them the relationship btw how their particular chosen law-maker votes and WHO funds them, in a 1:1 relationship, it puts them in a precarious situation. It's only if they have to choose btw survival and their donors that they'll tell their donors to screw off for a minute. Then pass laws to publicly fund campaigns and kill the relationship between private money and who gets into office.
There's a reason they are terrified of him and it's not 'He'll lose to Trump'.
PS: Elizabeth's 'plan' for Med4all is to wait until Republicans retake the houses before asking for single-payer, lmao. There's a reason her support plummetted the moment she came out with her "plans", pple saw right through them which made her look like a fake/planted progressive to huge chunks of her supporters.
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I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.
Yes, the danger of running as a third-party in the general is that you're most likely going to help the pple farthest removed from your ideas/agenda. That's why I don't think they should necessarily run a presidential candidate of their own, except maybe as a threat only: "Give us a little something, like Med4all, and we throw our full weight behind you—Compromise, compromise."
The benefits of a bonafide American Labour Party that runs independently of the DNC is, of course, organizing and mobilizing which makes negotiations possible: You really can better control who your people back. When they're under a group with a very different agenda, they are fractured and voiceless: Weak. In addition, I think with the grassroots work done by Bernie in 2016 and now, it would be much better positioned than Gary Johnson, the Green Party etc. They simply don't have the level of recognition and support Bernie does: they'll prolly join his Labor Party if he forms it--Jill Stein would, not sure of Johnson. There is a significant chunk of Right-leaning pple who are into economic populism too: they just don't like the woke stuff. So if Bernie forms that party, you might just see a similarly significant thing start happening on the Right, i.e. another Party breaking away from the RNC: the RNC and DNC both survive by making each other the fearsome boogieman and selling this to their constituents 247 using their various MSMs. Or, maybe even a chunk of Right economic populists may join Bernie's party even if they dislike some stuff. It's either this or rolling over for the establishment for good, IMHO. It's worth a shot.
Bernie has a plan for every single social program he has proposed: How to fund it, how to take care of workers dependent on the old system who would be left out, and how to use the bully-pulpit of POTUS to push individual law-makers into supporting it for their own political survival. There's a reason they are terrified of him and it's not 'He'll lose to Trump'. Elizabeth's 'plan' for Med4all is to wait until Republicans retake the houses before asking for single-payer, lmao. There's a reason her support plummetted the moment she came out with her "plans", pple saw right through them which made her look like a fake/planted progressive to huge chunks of her supporters.
Where and how does he plan to get the votes for for medicare for all to pick just one? Bully pulpit?
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Warren has permanently lost her base to Sanders but the suburban soccer moms core. She is a fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.
Pushing reforms from within is a slow but steady strategy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates voting window back to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and did little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.
Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.
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Warren has permanently her base but the suburban soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.
Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.
Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.
He would have made the blue states bluer. Which was not Hillary’s problem. His support can boost someone in a primary. But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal. He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.
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Warren has permanently her base but the suburban soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.
Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.
Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.
He would have made the blue states bluer. Which was not Hillary’s problem. His support can boost someone in a primary. But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal. He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.
Sanders has an appeal to the fringe of hippies and students who will never show up even for Biden. Same as Trump's deplorables. These group is everywhere including purple states - where part of them indeed voted Trump to scorn the DNC. Especially students or young voters. But also Latinos - Arizona, Kansas, Wisconsin, Indiana. These purple states went Trump marginally.
Trump's strength is not the centrist/independent vote but the deplorables. I bet he will spruce up a new "build the wall" rallying cry. Biden with his charisma of a dump rag will have little to match.
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Warren has permanently her base but the suburban soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.
Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.
Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.
He would have made the blue states bluer. Which was not Hillary’s problem. His support can boost someone in a primary. But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal. He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.
Sanders has an appeal to the fringe of hippies and students who will never show up even for Biden. Same as Trump's deplorables. These group is everywhere including purple states - where part of them indeed voted Trump to scorn the DNC. Especially students or young voters. But also Latinos - Arizona, Kansas, Wisconsin, Indiana. These purple states went Trump marginally.
Trump's strength is not the centrist/independent vote but the deplorables. I bet he will spruce up a new "build the wall" rallying cry. Biden with his charisma of a dump rag will have little to match.
I agree that Trump’s appeal is not to moderates. But it is standard Republican fare in its appeal to racists. The dog whistle approach tweaked by a MAGA bullhorn.
With few exceptions, that appeal resonates with the same crowd. Those poor folks have always voted Republican not because of economics, but in spite of it, because the GOP is a vehicle for putting the Negro in his place.
IMO the lesson in Trump’s wafer thin EC victory is there is still one or two last hurrahs, as opposed to zero, left in that approach. Not some unmatchable charisma by a man who can barely string together a coherent sentence. It is still gradually losing its viability despite the distortion of the noise that often accompanies winning.
I believe Trump benefitted from Hillary’s historical unpopularity - they both were historically unpopular nominees - to eke out a victory in the Electoral College. Biden is not that way. I also think he can appeal to those who dumped the GOP after Trump. But more importantly, he can excite the relevant demographics in the Midwest and PA that Hillary failed to get.
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The Establishment is the definition of tribalism. Sanders doesn't demonize voters from the Right or supporters of his competitors. It's from the establishment you get such nuggets as 'deplorables', 'brown shirts' 'Bernie bros' 'Obama boys' and all the other epithets that target voters rather than politicians. You will not find any such thing from Bernie. Even when he attacks competitors he keeps it policy, never personal; even when he doesn't get the same courtesy, to the chagrin of his supporters. Tribalism is literally the survival MO of the DNC and RNC establishments. Russiagate, conspiracy theories, and demonizing the other side 247 to keep their base in line even while they ultimately serve the same masters. It's from progressives that I've found nuanced analyses and a genuine attempt to understand Trump voters, for example. The 'establishment' are content to reduce their motive to 'racism' and be satisfied with their own perceived moral superiority. No one is more tribal than the Establishment.
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The Establishment is the definition of tribalism. Sanders doesn't demonize voters from the Right or supporters of his competitors. It's from the establishment you get such nuggets as 'deplorables', 'brown shirts' 'Bernie bros' 'Obama boys' and all the other epithets that target voters rather than politicians. You will not find any such thing from Bernie. Even when he attacks competitors he keeps it policy, never personal; even when he doesn't get the same courtesy, to the chagrin of his supporters. Tribalism is literally the survival MO of the DNC and RNC establishments. Russiagate, conspiracy theories, and demonizing the other side 247 to keep their base in line even while they ultimately serve the same masters. It's from progressives that I've found nuanced analyses and a genuine attempt to understand Trump voters, for example. The 'establishment' are content to reduce their motive to 'racism' and be satisfied with their own perceived moral superiority. No one is more tribal than the Establishment.
How about hinting that everybody that doesn't sing from the same script is a corporate shill or "the establishment"? Would that count in this definition of tribalism?
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How about hinting that everybody that doesn't sing from the same script is a corporate shill or "the establishment"? Would that count in this definition of tribalism?
Your use of 'hinting' indicates you're not referring to anything I actually said. You will not find anything I said that was aimed at denigrating the Dem voting base.
"Trump-lover" as a response to a critique of a candidate or the DNC/MSM/Corporate machinery...Now that sounds like the kind of thing that screams tribal mentality. Yes, 'establishment shill' is an accurate description of someone who can only bring that to a debate. I'm also sure 'establishment' never refers to laypeople/voters/base and my use of the term has not blurred that anywhere.
In any case, if I gave that impression, I assure you that's not what I think or what I meant. I draw sharp distinctions btw the machinery and regular folk.
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You are wrong. I absolutely want Bernie to win, not just the nomination but the election: It comes down to whether you see Trump as the problem or a symptom, as I've heard it put. Middle class people can afford to see him as the problem; they long for a return to the Obama years, they think things were basically ok then. But young pple facing a hard economic situation and poor people don't see Trump as the problem but rather a result of the problem, which is a decades old problem getting worse; so they want REAL change, not just a 'normal president', but change to their lives. I have absolutely no interest in a Biden presidency: He is a war hawk, has a racist past, and is libertarian, actually wanted to cut social security, has no interest in Med4all, and has early onset dementia os sthing like that. BUT, as I said, I'd support it because another 4 years of Trump means lots of immigrants are seriously screwed.
Maybe this is what is being referred to^^ but it absolutely is not a critique of middle-class Democrats; to me, it's a more accurate way of understanding what the MSM calls 'moderates' vs 'progressives'. In fact, 'moderates' by a large majority are pro Med4all and many of the 'progressive' issues, both from regular polls and exit polls in the primaries. It's why I don't believe such lanes exist. Instead, the difference is btw those who want Trump gone for the sake of a return to normalcy as their main issue; and people who want him gone so that progressive agendas can be implemented because they're seen as urgent. They're therefore not going to go for someone who can beat Trump but maintain the status quo. I don't think the first are 'establishment shills'. I don't even criticize them. I just note that, in general, they have a different sense of priority and generally trust the establishment news sources, which progressives don't. Because of their sense of priority, they fall in line behind whoever is signaled by trusted sources as 'best placed to beat Trump': it's their number one issue this election cycle. They want the last three years erased like a bad dream, hating Trump's uncouthness, the normalization of prejudiced talk etc and what they've been told is dangerous about Trump. That's not an insult on my part, to simply note this, it's not even criticism; it's just my understanding of what the lanes really are versus the un-nuanced 'moderates' vs 'progressives/radicals'. Majority Dem voters want robust social programs; it's among the ranks of the establishment that you'll find right-wing philosophies thriving.
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Warren has permanently her base but the suburban soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.
Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.
Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.
He would have made the blue states bluer. Which was not Hillary’s problem. His support can boost someone in a primary. But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal. He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.
Sanders has an appeal to the fringe of hippies and students who will never show up even for Biden. Same as Trump's deplorables. These group is everywhere including purple states - where part of them indeed voted Trump to scorn the DNC. Especially students or young voters. But also Latinos - Arizona, Kansas, Wisconsin, Indiana. These purple states went Trump marginally.
Trump's strength is not the centrist/independent vote but the deplorables. I bet he will spruce up a new "build the wall" rallying cry. Biden with his charisma of a dump rag will have little to match.
I agree that Trump’s appeal is not to moderates. But it is standard Republican fare in its appeal to racists. The dog whistle approach tweaked by a MAGA bullhorn.
With few exceptions, that appeal resonates with the same crowd. Those poor folks have always voted Republican not because of economics, but in spite of it, because the GOP is a vehicle for putting the Negro in his place.
IMO the lesson in Trump’s wafer thin EC victory is there is still one or two last hurrahs, as opposed to zero, left in that approach. Not some unmatchable charisma by a man who can barely string together a coherent sentence. It is still gradually losing its viability despite the distortion of the noise that often accompanies winning.
I believe Trump benefitted from Hillary’s historical unpopularity - they both were historically unpopular nominees - to eke out a victory in the Electoral College. Biden is not that way. I also think he can appeal to those who dumped the GOP after Trump. But more importantly, he can excite the relevant demographics in the Midwest and PA that Hillary failed to get.
You really underrate Trump - he is flhent and fairly smart. He is also quite charismatic and a crowd puller in contrast to Biden. It is a false diagnostic that Hillary lost only on account of unpopularity. Yes it was sexism (aka "unlikability"), coupled with a dubious record of blunders and incompetence, lack of an exciting vision with Obama 2.0 ideas despite the fullterm fatigue. But most importantly the brazen fraud/cheating by the DNC turned off Bernie Bros.
If Trump's strength is exciting the deplorables - who are a fringe ala Bernie Bros - why did Hillary lose the purple states? Boycott by the Bernie Bros is the key cause. Deplorables are a fringe - no they don't always respond to the same tribal message if ever. Generally there are 3 kinds of elections:
1. Post-GOP - say after Bush Sr or Bush Jr - there is a GOP fatigue and it is easiest for a Dem to win. Obama's big landslide. There is a Left-> Right-> Left-> pendulum.
2. Post-Dem - liberal fatigue makes it easy for GOP to win. Bush Jr, Trump, etc - coming after a Dem full-term at WH.
3. Incumbent - what you have now or 1996, 2004, 2012. It is always tough to dethrone an incumbent. Because they have coalesced their forces while the opposition faces divisive primaries. The DNC vs Sanders situation obviously benefits Trump. Usually the opposition has been reciting some false- and half- truths about the incumbent without asking why despite his glaring flaws he occupies the WH? "Trump is a racist. He is a sexist. He is a this, he is a that. He is a science denier.. ."
We are at 3 now and the Dems are statistically disadvantaged. You need a very strong change mesage that Joe Obama II Biden does not have. Nostalgia works for the core base in Illinois or California you ironically peg on Sanders. Not in the purples... because, well, they are purple! They have no love lost for either party and vote on the issues of the day. These issues of the day resonate in the progressives much better than the retrospectives.
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The Establishment is the definition of tribalism. Sanders doesn't demonize voters from the Right or supporters of his competitors. It's from the establishment you get such nuggets as 'deplorables', 'brown shirts' 'Bernie bros' 'Obama boys' and all the other epithets that target voters rather than politicians. You will not find any such thing from Bernie. Even when he attacks competitors he keeps it policy, never personal; even when he doesn't get the same courtesy, to the chagrin of his supporters. Tribalism is literally the survival MO of the DNC and RNC establishments. Russiagate, conspiracy theories, and demonizing the other side 247 to keep their base in line even while they ultimately serve the same masters. It's from progressives that I've found nuanced analyses and a genuine attempt to understand Trump voters, for example. The 'establishment' are content to reduce their motive to 'racism' and be satisfied with their own perceived moral superiority. No one is more tribal than the Establishment.
Very correct.
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Indeed, remember them trying to bully/shame voters into supporting Hillary mindlessly i.e. just because of her sex? They weaponized civil-rights/intersectionality in such a repulsive way: Men who didn't want Hillary were misogynists and women? Well, who can forget former secretary of state Madeline Albright declaring, "There's a special place in hell for women who don't support Hillary"??? Imagine the sheer entitlement in lecturing rather than wooing/convincing voters.
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How about hinting that everybody that doesn't sing from the same script is a corporate shill or "the establishment"? Would that count in this definition of tribalism?
Your use of 'hinting' indicates you're not referring to anything I actually said. You will not find anything I said that was aimed at denigrating the Dem voting base.
"Trump-lover" as a response to a critique of a candidate or the DNC/MSM/Corporate machinery...Now that sounds like the kind of thing that screams tribal mentality. Yes, 'establishment shill' is an accurate description of someone who can only bring that to a debate. I'm also sure 'establishment' never refers to laypeople/voters/base and my use of the term has not blurred that anywhere.
In any case, if I gave that impression, I assure you that's not what I think or what I meant. I draw sharp distinctions btw the machinery and regular folk.
Interesting.
I was using tribalism in the context of Left and Right as is generally understood in the US. So hard Left and hard Right are tribalism. It's viable for Republicans. But suicidal for Democrats, because they are built on inclusivity.
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Warren has permanently her base but the suburban soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.
Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.
Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.
He would have made the blue states bluer. Which was not Hillary’s problem. His support can boost someone in a primary. But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal. He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.
Sanders has an appeal to the fringe of hippies and students who will never show up even for Biden. Same as Trump's deplorables. These group is everywhere including purple states - where part of them indeed voted Trump to scorn the DNC. Especially students or young voters. But also Latinos - Arizona, Kansas, Wisconsin, Indiana. These purple states went Trump marginally.
Trump's strength is not the centrist/independent vote but the deplorables. I bet he will spruce up a new "build the wall" rallying cry. Biden with his charisma of a dump rag will have little to match.
I agree that Trump’s appeal is not to moderates. But it is standard Republican fare in its appeal to racists. The dog whistle approach tweaked by a MAGA bullhorn.
With few exceptions, that appeal resonates with the same crowd. Those poor folks have always voted Republican not because of economics, but in spite of it, because the GOP is a vehicle for putting the Negro in his place.
IMO the lesson in Trump’s wafer thin EC victory is there is still one or two last hurrahs, as opposed to zero, left in that approach. Not some unmatchable charisma by a man who can barely string together a coherent sentence. It is still gradually losing its viability despite the distortion of the noise that often accompanies winning.
I believe Trump benefitted from Hillary’s historical unpopularity - they both were historically unpopular nominees - to eke out a victory in the Electoral College. Biden is not that way. I also think he can appeal to those who dumped the GOP after Trump. But more importantly, he can excite the relevant demographics in the Midwest and PA that Hillary failed to get.
You really underrate Trump - he is flhent and fairly smart. He is also quite charismatic and a crowd puller in contrast to Biden. It is a false diagnostic that Hillary lost only on account of unpopularity. Yes it was sexism (aka "unlikability"), coupled with a dubious record of blunders and incompetence, lack of an exciting vision with Obama 2.0 ideas despite the fullterm fatigue. But most importantly the brazen fraud/cheating by the DNC turned off Bernie Bros.
If Trump's strength is exciting the deplorables - who are a fringe ala Bernie Bros - why did Hillary lose the purple states? Boycott by the Bernie Bros is the key cause. Deplorables are a fringe - no they don't always respond to the same tribal message if ever. Generally there are 3 kinds of elections:
1. Post-GOP - say after Bush Sr or Bush Jr - there is a GOP fatigue and it is easiest for a Dem to win. Obama's big landslide. There is a Left-> Right-> Left-> pendulum.
2. Post-Dem - liberal fatigue makes it easy for GOP to win. Bush Jr, Trump, etc - coming after a Dem full-term at WH.
3. Incumbent - what you have now or 1996, 2004, 2012. It is always tough to dethrone an incumbent. Because they have coalesced their forces while the opposition faces divisive primaries. The DNC vs Sanders situation obviously benefits Trump. Usually the opposition has been reciting some false- and half- truths about the incumbent without asking why despite his glaring flaws he occupies the WH? "Trump is a racist. He is a sexist. He is a this, he is a that. He is a science denier.. ."
We are at 3 now and the Dems are statistically disadvantaged. You need a very strong change mesage that Joe Obama II Biden does not have. Nostalgia works for the core base in Illinois or California you ironically peg on Sanders. Not in the purples... because, well, they are purple! They have no love lost for either party and vote on the issues of the day. These issues of the day resonate in the progressives much better than the retrospectives.
To be fair, different people have come away with different lessons from his victory. So their prescriptions for how to win will be different. If you think the blacks in Philly, Detroit and Milwaukee, who demonstrably did not show up in numbers for Hillary, made the difference, you have a different solution than someone with a different take. I think the guy got a lucky bounce. A few thousand votes the other way and we'd be inundated with stories of what a joke his campaign was.
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You really underrate Trump - he is fluent and fairly smart. He is also quite charismatic and a crowd puller in contrast to Biden.
:s_laugh: :s_laugh:
What!
I'm beginning to think you are one of those Russia algorithms.
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You really underrate Trump - he is fluent and fairly smart. He is also quite charismatic and a crowd puller in contrast to Biden.
:s_laugh: :s_laugh:
What!
I'm beginning to think you are one of those Russia algorithms.
If you see no problem with Biden's gaffes maybe you are just a DNC troll.
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If you see no problem with Biden's gaffes maybe you are just a DNC troll.
:29:
Maan, technology has come a long way, just marvel at how this algorithm named Robina deceived us into thinking we were debating a real person.
That filthy old kikuyu pervert has several alts here too. What shambles!
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If you see no problem with Biden's gaffes maybe you are just a DNC troll.
:29:
Maan, technology has come a long way, just marvel at how this algorithm named Robina deceived us into thinking we were debating a real person.
That filthy old kikuyu pervert has several alts here too. What shambles!
I don't understand some of these emojis. Maybe use words to communicate? Or better tell us something about the subject of the debate. We can discuss Russian bots on another thread.
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This dude doesn't belong here. He has nothing to add except juvenile yo mamma non-contributions. Reminds me of the old nipate.
He's also soft in the head: Imagine joining a forum and accusing it's years-long membership of being Russian bots, lmao. Apparently, the Russians are such geniuses they invested years in advance on Kenyan sites to influence an American election :D
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Another weakness for Bernie is, fairly or not, he is generally seen as race neutral or worse unconcerned, by many black voters. He goes hard on many left issues, but is very generic or lukewarm when addressing their issues often conflating them with race neutral economic problems. While this seems ideal, because economics are indeed a problem for them,, for African Americans, it’s more than just that. That’s why, even though he was arrested protesting racism, many blacks feel like Biden knows them better.
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Me? The only disadvantage I see is a relentless anti-Bernie MSM campaign coupled with coverup for Biden. Biden benefits from association with Obama; He was VP to the first Black President, all within living memory of all voters. Its a psychological thing where we go: A friend of our first president is a friend to Black people. But there's nothing he does for Black people that Bernie does not do or say. Also, he benefits from older people voting. Bernie gets support from young Black people. Biden authored the most devastating bill to black people in decades. I honestly believe theres no way hed be getting majority Black support if the media were not running interference for him 247.
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Joe Biden's coherence problem has now gone from independent media to Fox to International media. I wonder how long CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of establishment media can go on hiding it. I even saw Mehdi Hassan as a guest on MSNBC embarrassing them on their coverage of Joe Biden. I hear they're trying to switch the debate into a town hall because they know Joe cant go 1 on 1 against anyone; where he cant hide in a crowded stage of bickering candidates. This entire week theyve hidden him from the public except for one or two 7-minute speeches where he still couldnt go all the way without the confusion coming through. There's no way these pple are serious about defeating Trump. They're serious about killing Sanders only. Unless theyre gonna do a switcheroo at the convention where Biden resigns and gives his delevates to Amy or sthing, I don't see how they plan to win. Many pple will not vote for someone with obvious dementia no matter how much they drum that Trump is senile: it's obvious he's not.
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Me? The only disadvantage I see is a relentless anti-Bernie MSM campaign coupled with coverup for Biden. Biden benefits from association with Obama; He was VP to the first Black President, all within living memory of all voters. Its a psychological thing where we go: A friend of our first president is a friend to Black people. But there's nothing he does for Black people that Bernie does not do or say. Also, he benefits from older people voting. Bernie gets support from young Black people. Biden authored the most devastating bill to black people in decades. I honestly believe theres no way hed be getting majority Black support if the media were not running interference for him 247.
Bernie Sanders voted for it. But I wouldn't go as far as to suggest it reveals anti-black animus.
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Bernie was vigorously critical of it for years though, his positions are the same. He voted for it only as a compromise because it gave a lot of money to combat violence against women. There are videos of his speeches and his position is the same and even then constantly railed against mass incarceration. Biden's soeeches are diff. Rem, Biden authored and willfully owned it, nicknaming it the Biden Bill. Sanders saw it as bad but did not want to let the initiative to protect women embedded in it go. I see these two positions as very different.
Btw, I have not said anywhere that Biden has anti-Black animus. In fact, Im p sure Ive said he did not. Just didnt care for Blacks in any special way; has done nothing to earn the 'friends to Black people' moniker. In fact he has blunders there, not pluses.
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As you people are making noise about the Dems, Trump in the meantime now has an opponent he cannot tweet away in the name of corana virus. The stocks are going down, the price of oil also heading south. Trump's management of the coming crisis is being tested and he still believes to know more than the CDC scientists on how to manage such a scourge.
The man might not need an democrat to defeat himself.
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Bernie was vigorously critical of it for years though, his positions are the same. He voted for it only as a compromise because it gave a lot of money to combat violence against women. There are videos of his speeches and his position is the same and even then constantly railed against mass incarceration. Biden's soeeches are diff. Rem, Biden authored and willfully owned it, nicknaming it the Biden Bill. Sanders saw it as bad but did not want to let the initiative to protect women embedded in it go. I see these two positions as very different.
Btw, I have not said anywhere that Biden has anti-Black animus. In fact, Im p sure Ive said he did not. Just didnt care for Blacks in any special way; has done nothing to earn the 'friends to Black people' moniker. In fact he has blunders there, not pluses.
That sounds like he supported “mass incarceration“ because of money to combat violence against women. That this money to combat violence against women was part of the package is consistent with the notion that the motivations behind the bill were pure. Otherwise Bernie would not have voted for it. Likewise Biden would not have sponsored it.
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As you people are making noise about the Dems, Trump in the meantime now has an opponent he cannot tweet away in the name of corana virus. The stocks are going down, the price of oil also heading south. Trump's management of the coming crisis is being tested and he still believes to know more than the CDC scientists on how to manage such a scourge.
The man might not need an democrat to defeat himself.
Incidentally, coronavirus-type problems would require a med4all to manage were it to break out in a big way. I hear someone who was force-quarantined received a $3,000 plus bill after, just for the tests, ambulance, etc. If the govt doesn't foot the bill, don't expect people to be responsible about showing up for testing etc before they are in serious condition and have spread it far and wide.
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That sounds like he supported “mass incarceration“ because of money to combat violence against women. That this money to combat violence against women was part of the package is consistent with the notion that the motivations behind the bill were pure. Otherwise Bernie would not have voted for it. Likewise Biden would not have sponsored it.
Fair enough. I still think you're operating under the notion that I think Biden had beef with Black people: I'm not. I just don't think he particularly cared. When it comes to the crime bill, my critique is more that he created damage that Blacks typically punish others for, regardless of motives, so I think the only reason they have not punished him is the media has covered for him.
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That sounds like he supported “mass incarceration“ because of money to combat violence against women. That this money to combat violence against women was part of the package is consistent with the notion that the motivations behind the bill were pure. Otherwise Bernie would not have voted for it. Likewise Biden would not have sponsored it.
Fair enough. I still think you're operating under the notion that I think Biden had beef with Black people: I'm not. I just don't think he particularly cared. When it comes to the crime bill, my critique is more that he created damage that Blacks typically punish others for, regardless of motives, so I think the only reason they have not punished him is the media has covered for him.
I think that way because you brought up busing and working with segregationists. When you say working with segregationists, and gloss over why and his justifications, it seems to suggest malevolent motives towards blacks.
I also shared a link on his history with black Americans in a post on this thread that goes past a time when he could not have possibly known Obama. Here it is https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-a-wilmington-pool-pranks-nicknames-and-the-racial-education-of-joe-biden/2019/07/12/29fcc8fc-a191-11e9-b732-41a79c2551bf_story.html. You didn't get called Nigger-lover back in the day for not giving a damn about black people.
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I think that way because you brought up busing and working with segregationists. When you say working with segregationists, and gloss over why and his justifications, it seems to suggest malevolent motives towards blacks.
I also shared a link on his history with black Americans in a post on this thread that goes past a time when he could not have possibly known Obama. Here it is https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-a-wilmington-pool-pranks-nicknames-and-the-racial-education-of-joe-biden/2019/07/12/29fcc8fc-a191-11e9-b732-41a79c2551bf_story.html. You didn't get called Nigger-lover back in the day for not giving a damn about black people.
But I didn't gloss over why: I said it was for pragmatical/political reasons; pressure from White constituents. And it's really not an exaggeration to say he worked with segregationists; he wrote them letters seeking support for his anti-busing bills, and they were fond of him—I believe I read one of the worst ones referred to him as a son and Biden was asked to eulogize another. Does it make him like them? No. But it's still not insignificant he went along with them for political reasons: It's fair to test his creds in an election where he's touted as a friend to Black people when his career has many examples of not exactly aligning with their interests.
Ima check out that link.
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As you people are making noise about the Dems, Trump in the meantime now has an opponent he cannot tweet away in the name of corana virus. The stocks are going down, the price of oil also heading south. Trump's management of the coming crisis is being tested and he still believes to know more than the CDC scientists on how to manage such a scourge.
The man might not need an democrat to defeat himself.
Unfortunately there are enough sick people in this country to give him a chance of winning.
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I think that way because you brought up busing and working with segregationists. When you say working with segregationists, and gloss over why and his justifications, it seems to suggest malevolent motives towards blacks.
I also shared a link on his history with black Americans in a post on this thread that goes past a time when he could not have possibly known Obama. Here it is https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-a-wilmington-pool-pranks-nicknames-and-the-racial-education-of-joe-biden/2019/07/12/29fcc8fc-a191-11e9-b732-41a79c2551bf_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-a-wilmington-pool-pranks-nicknames-and-the-racial-education-of-joe-biden/2019/07/12/29fcc8fc-a191-11e9-b732-41a79c2551bf_story.html). You didn't get called Nigger-lover back in the day for not giving a damn about black people.
But I didn't gloss over why: I said it was for pragmatical/political reasons; pressure from White constituents. And it's really not an exaggeration to say he worked with segregationists; he wrote them letters seeking support for his anti-busing bills, and they were fond of him—I believe I read one of the worst ones referred to him as a son and Biden was asked to eulogize another. Does it make him like them? No. But it's still not insignificant he went along with them for political reasons: It's fair to test his creds in an election where he's touted as a friend to Black people when his career has many examples of not exactly aligning with their interests.
Ima check out that link.
Those guys were powerful back then. Looking at him holistically, it's not unreasonable to think he just believed it more pragmatic to work with them.
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Fivethirtyeight predicts Biden is running away with the nomination.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/3-ways-the-next-2-weeks-could-go-even-the-best-case-scenario-for-sanders-doesnt-look-so-great/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/3-ways-the-next-2-weeks-could-go-even-the-best-case-scenario-for-sanders-doesnt-look-so-great/)
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Fivethirtyeight predicts Biden is running away with the nomination.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/3-ways-the-next-2-weeks-could-go-even-the-best-case-scenario-for-sanders-doesnt-look-so-great/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/3-ways-the-next-2-weeks-could-go-even-the-best-case-scenario-for-sanders-doesnt-look-so-great/)
It is over. Blacks have hurried our communist
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Fivethirtyeight predicts Biden is running away with the nomination.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/3-ways-the-next-2-weeks-could-go-even-the-best-case-scenario-for-sanders-doesnt-look-so-great/ (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/3-ways-the-next-2-weeks-could-go-even-the-best-case-scenario-for-sanders-doesnt-look-so-great/)
It is over. Blacks have hurried our communist
Yep. I suspect it will be a real beatdown for Bernie in Motown. I am not sure where he gets his pickings, but they will be slim.
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It is over for him. It is Biden versus trump to northerners. Biden should pick a Latino from white Latinos in Florida and hopefully flip Florida
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If Bernie were a team guy(he is not) he would throw in the towel about now. Because he won’t win. But more importantly to place minimization of the spread of coronavirus above his ego.
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If Bernie were a team guy(he is not) he would throw in the towel about now. Because he won’t win. But more importantly to place minimization of the spread of coronavirus above his ego.
How incredibly unfair of you. U've already 4gotten supporting the theft of the nomination from the winner when it looked like Bernie was ahead. U guys who jumped on the NeverBernie train should never be caught dead preaching team work ever again, tbh. Bernie has said the opposite about Biden at the convention, unlike Biden when he was behind, and is a better team player than any of u guys by a mile. Re Corona: The DNC should cancel the rest of the primary and make it vote-by-mail only. Putting that on the contestants is topsy turvy.
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If Bernie were a team guy(he is not) he would throw in the towel about now. Because he won’t win. But more importantly to place minimization of the spread of coronavirus above his ego.
How incredibly unfair of you. U've already 4gotten supporting the theft of the nomination from the winner when it looked like Bernie was ahead. U guys who jumped on the NeverBernie train should never be caught dead preaching team work ever again, tbh. Bernie has said the opposite about Biden at the convention, unlike Biden when he was behind, and is a better team player than any of u guys by a mile. Re Corona: The DNC should cancel the rest of the primary and make it vote-by-mail only. Putting that on the contestants is topsy turvy.
I have supported bringing this to an end quickly by uniting behind whoever won big, early, even when I believed Bernie was running away with it and Biden dead in the water. https://nipate.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=cfd547774845931db7889b5f3bd6f1e8&topic=8012.msg70623#msg70623 (https://nipate.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=cfd547774845931db7889b5f3bd6f1e8&topic=8012.msg70623#msg70623)
The scorched earth approach IMO will only leave bigger and more raw divisions to fix close to the general election where Dems don’t have that luxury.
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A clip of young Biden going off on George Shultz about apartheid from 1986.
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A clip of young Biden going off on George Shultz about apartheid from 1986.
Wow, I think comes of as a decent human being in that clip. I respect Biden for his stance on apartheid v George Schultz.