Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: GeeMail on October 29, 2017, 10:53:21 AM
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Right now I know fellow bean counter Bryan and our friend Kichwa are laser focused on secession. While at it, it looks like Ouruto won't be resting easy whatever comes. Last time Kichwa and I reluctantly urged NASA online to go to SCOK but now the voices are quiet. Will SCOK again come to the rescue or quorum matters are continuing? Will Uhuru risk defending himself as first respondent (Kandara MP first witness and JEBC flower girls)? Will Central Republic be the first to have a president whose certificate of victory was recalled twice? Will Maraga validate this sham (in many ways this is worse than the first)? Will Uhuru carry his head high for the Bokassa coronation? Will he consider resigning? Will arap Mashamba let him?
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Petition is definitely coming - but I think big question is the 25 Luo Nyanza constitutuency that didn't vote and the meaning of Raila withdrawal - and based on the lack of qourom you know SCORK don't want to touch this case even with ten foot pole - so any petition is bound to fail - but come they will - unless Uhuru finds away to block the registry :) from receiving them or after it being filled - find away to stop 5 judges from sitting - Ibrahim is sick - that leaves six judges -make Njoki and Ojwang somehow absent - and you leave Wakora 4 unable to form a qourom.
So basically all Uhuru need to somehow make Ojwang and Njoki unable to attend - and the wakora 4 will be still born. SCORK quorom is 5 judges.
Right now I know fellow bean counter Bryan and our friend Kichwa are laser focused on secession. While at it, it looks like Ouruto won't be resting easy whatever comes. Last time Kichwa and I reluctantly urged NASA online to go to SCOK but now the voices are quiet. Will SCOK again come to the rescue or quorum matters are continuing? Will Uhuru risk defending himself as first respondent (Kandara MP first witness and JEBC flower girls)? Will Central Republic be the first to have a president whose certificate of victory was recalled twice? Will Maraga validate this sham (in many ways this is worse than the first)? Will Uhuru carry his head high for the Bokassa coronation? Will he consider resigning? Will arap Mashamba let him?
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Pundit we cannot appear to celebrate SCOK lack of quorum. Least of all as a means of validating electiral victory. It's like celebrating an incompetent JEBC. We would be better off with a properly consituted and well functioning court endirsing a vitory than a threatened, bribed or mussing obe unable to give a verdict. But the statement tells of the thiniking in Zamunda Republic these days. Acquitted for missing witnesses is more like it.
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No need of arguing with gangsters. Really a waste of time. The only thing about history is always repeats itself and the tormentors of today will be the victims of tomorrow.
Pundit we cannot appear to celebrate SCOK lack of quorum. Least of all as a means of validating electiral victory. It's like celebrating an incompetent JEBC. We would be better off with a properly consituted and well functioning court endirsing a vitory than a threatened, bribed or mussing obe unable to give a verdict. But the statement tells of the thiniking in Zamunda Republic these days. Acquitted for missing witnesses is more like it.
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The last decision was made in air of fraud and shenagians that are under investigation. The SCORK registar, Lenoola and Mwilu are under active investigation - they need to recluse themselves - if not Njoki and Ojwang should refuse to sit in another charade - where their compromised colleagues do not do their job but relied on poisoned report - and deny the wakora 4 the quorom. SCORK simply need to sit this one out. This is time for 2 judges to fall sick - and join Ibrahim in the rest bed...so the country can go back to normalcy.
Pundit we cannot appear to celebrate SCOK lack of quorum. Least of all as a means of validating electiral victory. It's like celebrating an incompetent JEBC. We would be better off with a properly consituted and well functioning court endirsing a vitory than a threatened, bribed or mussing obe unable to give a verdict. But the statement tells of the thiniking in Zamunda Republic these days. Acquitted for missing witnesses is more like it.
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Pundit we cannot appear to celebrate SCOK lack of quorum. Least of all as a means of validating electiral victory. It's like celebrating an incompetent JEBC. We would be better off with a properly consituted and well functioning court endirsing a vitory than a threatened, bribed or mussing obe unable to give a verdict. But the statement tells of the thiniking in Zamunda Republic these days. Acquitted for missing witnesses is more like it.
Rafiki, we're dealing with hardened criminals and electoral fraudsters. They don't know right from wrong, your preaching is falling on deaf ears.
Please conserve the precious bandwidth.
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The move to interfere with SCOK's quorum has pretty much destroyed it and I do not think NASA really want to go there any more. The SCOK is now like IEBC and should be boycotted as constituted. This matter must now be resolved politically and if that fails then we do secession and if they try to stop us from peacefully seceding then civil war.
The last decision was made in air of fraud and shenagians that are under investigation. The SCORK registar, Lenoola and Mwilu are under active investigation - they need to recluse themselves - if not Njoki and Ojwang should refuse to sit in another charade - where their compromised colleagues do not do their job but relied on poisoned report - and deny the wakora 4 the quorom. SCORK simply need to sit this one out. This is time for 2 judges to fall sick - and join Ibrahim in the rest bed...so the country can go back to normalcy.
Pundit we cannot appear to celebrate SCOK lack of quorum. Least of all as a means of validating electiral victory. It's like celebrating an incompetent JEBC. We would be better off with a properly consituted and well functioning court endirsing a vitory than a threatened, bribed or mussing obe unable to give a verdict. But the statement tells of the thiniking in Zamunda Republic these days. Acquitted for missing witnesses is more like it.
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Right now I know fellow bean counter Bryan and our friend Kichwa are laser focused on secession. While at it, it looks like Ouruto won't be resting easy whatever comes. Last time Kichwa and I reluctantly urged NASA online to go to SCOK but now the voices are quiet. Will SCOK again come to the rescue or quorum matters are continuing? Will Uhuru risk defending himself as first respondent (Kandara MP first witness and JEBC flower girls)? Will Central Republic be the first to have a president whose certificate of victory was recalled twice? Will Maraga validate this sham (in many ways this is worse than the first)? Will Uhuru carry his head high for the Bokassa coronation? Will he consider resigning? Will arap Mashamba let him?
Doff me 'at to a member of the profession,
In my view, SCORK is shot and cannot now be relied upon to show up let alone make a ruling that is fair Our murderous Thieving bastards could even kill DK Maraga just to keep him away from the bench.
My motivation for secession is simply to get away from the industrial scale criminality practiced by jubilee and her foot soldiers. They are beyond redemption and rehabilitation and are best left to their own devices in a land they can pillage in whatever way they like.
I want to live in an open, fair and compassionate society where my children can access national treasure and public services without having to bribe anyone.
I know that, like me you've sampled the results of the just concluded elections and know where the truth lies.
Nimechoka na hii system ya majambazi.
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The move to interfere with SCOK's quorum has pretty much destroyed it and I do not think NASA really want to go there any more. The SCOK is now like IEBC and should be boycotted as constituted. This matter must now be resolved politically and if that fails then we do secession and if they try to stop us from peacefully seceding then civil war.
The last decision was made in air of fraud and shenagians that are under investigation. The SCORK registar, Lenoola and Mwilu are under active investigation - they need to recluse themselves - if not Njoki and Ojwang should refuse to sit in another charade - where their compromised colleagues do not do their job but relied on poisoned report - and deny the wakora 4 the quorom. SCORK simply need to sit this one out. This is time for 2 judges to fall sick - and join Ibrahim in the rest bed...so the country can go back to normalcy.
Pundit we cannot appear to celebrate SCOK lack of quorum. Least of all as a means of validating electiral victory. It's like celebrating an incompetent JEBC. We would be better off with a properly consituted and well functioning court endirsing a vitory than a threatened, bribed or mussing obe unable to give a verdict. But the statement tells of the thiniking in Zamunda Republic these days. Acquitted for missing witnesses is more like it.
Seconded
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The move to interfere with SCOK's quorum has pretty much destroyed it and I do not think NASA really want to go there any more. The SCOK is now like IEBC and should be boycotted as constituted. This matter must now be resolved politically and if that fails then we do secession and if they try to stop us from peacefully seceding then civil war.[/u]
I trust you'll be in the front line if it comes to civil war, eh?
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Civil war of the first kind where combatants are fighting with stones and sticks....against bullet.Smell the coffee and accept the reality as is.
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Civil war of the first kind where combatants are fighting with stones and sticks....against bullet.Smell the coffee and accept the reality as is.
Joker, Kenya is surrounded by failed state with porous borders. Jijazie msee.
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You will be surprised how guns becomes available very quickly. You think only Ruto can think.
Civil war of the first kind where combatants are fighting with stones and sticks....against bullet.Smell the coffee and accept the reality as is.
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Tough talking keyboard wannabe warriors from both coalitions talking about civil war like it's a computer game.
Have any idea what it's actually like for the poor sods on the front line?
Of course not. 140 character tweets or 15 secs on the news, just before the weather on CNN/BBC is the closest they'll ever get.
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When I see keyboard bravado, the story that always comes up to my mind is that of Lucas Sang. A respected member of the community. Led a group of "brave" warriors anticipating to rape, maim and slaughter women and children of Kikuyus. Instead they run into a group of men armed with farm implements who were not scared. It's a tragic story.
http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=kenya
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Civil war is bad for everyone but it cannot be used to scare one side to submit to dictatorship. You cannot be free until you conquer the fear of death.
When I see keyboard bravado, the story that always comes up to my mind is that of Lucas Sang. A respected member of the community. Led a group of "brave" warriors anticipating to rape, maim and slaughter women and children of Kikuyus. Instead they run into a group of men armed with farm implements who were not scared. It's a tragic story.
http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=kenya
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Civil war is bad for everyone but it cannot be used to scare one side to submit to dictatorship. You cannot be free until you conquer the fear of death.
When I see keyboard bravado, the story that always comes up to my mind is that of Lucas Sang. A respected member of the community. Led a group of "brave" warriors anticipating to rape, maim and slaughter women and children of Kikuyus. Instead they run into a group of men armed with farm implements who were not scared. It's a tragic story.
http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=kenya (http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=kenya)
I agree. The notion that in such an event one side will just be fine while the other bears the brunt is delusion at its best.
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Civil war is bad for everyone but it cannot be used to scare one side to submit to dictatorship. You cannot be free until you conquer the fear of death.
When I see keyboard bravado, the story that always comes up to my mind is that of Lucas Sang. A respected member of the community. Led a group of "brave" warriors anticipating to rape, maim and slaughter women and children of Kikuyus. Instead they run into a group of men armed with farm implements who were not scared. It's a tragic story.
http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=kenya (http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=kenya)
I agree. The notion that in such an event one side will just be fine while the other bears the brunt is delusion at its best.
Just for the record, I do not support any form of violent uprising.
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Agreed. No need to go to SCOK. This is a political problem and we are dealing with people without respect of rule of law. Let the demos continue. ..
The move to interfere with SCOK's quorum has pretty much destroyed it and I do not think NASA really want to go there any more. The SCOK is now like IEBC and should be boycotted as constituted. This matter must now be resolved politically and if that fails then we do secession and if they try to stop us from peacefully seceding then civil war.
The last decision was made in air of fraud and shenagians that are under investigation. The SCORK registar, Lenoola and Mwilu are under active investigation - they need to recluse themselves - if not Njoki and Ojwang should refuse to sit in another charade - where their compromised colleagues do not do their job but relied on poisoned report - and deny the wakora 4 the quorom. SCORK simply need to sit this one out. This is time for 2 judges to fall sick - and join Ibrahim in the rest bed...so the country can go back to normalcy.
Pundit we cannot appear to celebrate SCOK lack of quorum. Least of all as a means of validating electiral victory. It's like celebrating an incompetent JEBC. We would be better off with a properly consituted and well functioning court endirsing a vitory than a threatened, bribed or mussing obe unable to give a verdict. But the statement tells of the thiniking in Zamunda Republic these days. Acquitted for missing witnesses is more like it.
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The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
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Ok. Now tell us how you want to solve this problem.
The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
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Empedocles are you sure you meant to post that on this forum? :D Here everything starts and ends with "reforms".
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Ok. Now tell us how you want to solve this problem.
The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
Read history, for example how South Korea did it.
That's a start.
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Empedocles are you sure you meant to post that on this forum? :D Here everything starts and ends with "reforms".
[emoji23]
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Empo that Asian Tigers story... don't be bothered. Apparently democracy trumples all, and we must reform and re-reform the system - until everyone is "happy". So first thing right now we need the parliamentary system to top up the 80% majimbo. After this we will turbocharge to prosperity like the Japanese. Welcome to democracy :D
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Empo that Asian Tigers story... don't be bothered. Apparently democracy trumples all, and we must reform and re-reform the system - until everyone is "happy". So first thing right now we need the parliamentary system to top up the 80% majimbo. After this we will turbocharge to prosperity like the Japanese. Welcome to democracy :D
Correcto-mondo.
We'll just keep on reforming, even both (or more) of the "new countries" after the hoped for secession.
We're constantly making up new definitions of democracy as we plod along, without an inkling of what democracy really means.
Fascinating.
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The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
+1
That seems clear enough. But better not tell it to the True Believers, on either side.
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The floor is yours Empedocles, tell us what democracy is-the country needs it.
Empo that Asian Tigers story... don't be bothered. Apparently democracy trumples all, and we must reform and re-reform the system - until everyone is "happy". So first thing right now we need the parliamentary system to top up the 80% majimbo. After this we will turbocharge to prosperity like the Japanese. Welcome to democracy :D
Correcto-mondo.
We'll just keep on reforming, even both (or more) of the "new countries" after the hoped for secession.
We're constantly making up new definitions of democracy as we plod along, without an inkling of what democracy really means.
Fascinating.
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The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, ]singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
Kenya needs at the moment a way of interrupting the looting, impunity, police killings and election theft. NASA represents that interruption. Afterward we can talk about North Korea etc. This moral equivalence that NASA or Raila is exactly like Jubilee is not helpful. NASA is not in power. It has no record of stealing public funds as a government in power while Jubilee has a fat file, NASA has no record of extrajudicial killings as a government in power, no record of stealing elections while Jubilee has a SCOK ruling against them. Nobody is saying NASA is a saint but they are not Jubilee.
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The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, ]singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
Kenya needs at the moment a way of interrupting the looting, impunity, police killings and election theft. NASA represents that interruption. Afterward we can talk about North Korea etc. This moral equivalence that NASA or Raila is exactly like Jubilee is not helpful. NASA is not in power. It has no record of stealing public funds as a government in power while Jubilee has a fat file, NASA has no record of extrajudicial killings as a government in power, no record of stealing elections while Jubilee has a SCOK ruling against them. Nobody is saying NASA is a saint but they are not Jubilee.
You're being extremely selective with history.
An honest cursory glance at the main players of NASA tells a very different story, for example, Weta telling off western diplomats in 2008 at the height of the mass shooting of Luos in Kisumu. Now compare Weta's past behaviour with, say, the Ruto of today on CNN with the Ruto of 2008 gnashing his teeth in anger.
Musical chairs played by thugs in suits and we're supposed to be taking them seriously?
Really?
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The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, ]singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
Kenya needs at the moment a way of interrupting the looting, impunity, police killings and election theft. NASA represents that interruption. Afterward we can talk about North Korea etc. This moral equivalence that NASA or Raila is exactly like Jubilee is not helpful. NASA is not in power. It has no record of stealing public funds as a government in power while Jubilee has a fat file, NASA has no record of extrajudicial killings as a government in power, no record of stealing elections while Jubilee has a SCOK ruling against them. Nobody is saying NASA is a saint but they are not Jubilee.
You're being extremely selective with history.
An honest cursory glance at the main players of NASA tells a very different story, for example, Weta telling off western diplomats in 2008 at the height of the mass shooting of Luos in Kisumu. Now compare Weta's past behaviour with, say, the Ruto of today on CNN with the Ruto of 2008 gnashing his teeth in anger.
Musical chairs played by thugs in suits and we're supposed to be taking them seriously?
Really?
It could be suggested that weta is improving while Ruto is regressing.
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Empo - you're a funny dude like moonki - we play with the cards we are dealt with - not those we desire. These cards we are dealt with because of history, nature, circumstances,even weather...etc.
Kenya find itself in the situation it is - and you cannot suggest un-realistic and unpractical solutions to the problem. Yes our politician are all corrupt and name it - but they are the best we've got - all factors considered - and we will work with them - to move the country forward or backward. The idea that some silver bullet of industralization will pull kenya out is total nonsese. Do this - as individual do it - start a small manufacturing company and get out of poverty - and that will be nice example for many to follow. Of course talk is cheap.
Kenya is not doing badly - it just need to double it's growth rate. It need to accelerate investment in public sector - roads, schools, power etc. We are already low-middle-income country - Nairobi is one of Africa shinning city - and it not all gloom -doom - on the contrary you just need to visit our neighbours to realize kenyans have worked hard and smart to be where it is - slightly better than Uganda, TZ, Rwanda, Burundi, Zambia, Congo, Ethiopia, Somalia - name them.
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The Canaan BS that Raila has propagated is not only downright stupid but borders on insanity.
Before I continue, note very carefully that I personally find Uhuruto to be imbeciles of the highest order, on par with Raila.
Raila has been, exactly like Uhuruto, ]singing of delivering Kenya to Canaan. Sounds good until one realise that Raila, just like Uhuruto, Kibaki, et al have only continued with the colonial system we inherited from the British (divide and conquer). None of them has ever released a comprehensive action plan on how to uplift the comman wanainchi from abject poverty, which can only be brought about by industrialization. All their plans are based on big BS infrastructure projects, a very well known conduit for stealing, among other dumb ideas. History is full of such stupidity, which a five minute google search would reveal.
Singing democracy, new constitution, etc is a waste of time, though it sounds good. Unfortunately, it wouldn't feed us and give us jobs. It simply can't. So long as they have no idea what a constitution entails and no sense of what it means, it's all a waste of time.
Don't even get me started on the fact that both coalitions are littered with downright thugs of the highest order, with very questionable sources of riches (i.e. corruption and full use of the beloved patronage system). These thugs who support either of the "leaders" are more than happy to keep the status quo, the patronage system which made them rich. Why would they want to change it when it's been very good for them? Why agitate and foster the rule of law which would see them quickly locked up for life?
Now these two numb-nuts, in a bid to secure exclusive access to dwindling resources for themselves and their minions, are pitting unwitting Kenyans against one another. If or when Kenya explodes, they'll be far far away, safe and secure with their millions plundered from the combatants.
Follow the carrot.
Kenya needs at the moment a way of interrupting the looting, impunity, police killings and election theft. NASA represents that interruption. Afterward we can talk about North Korea etc. This moral equivalence that NASA or Raila is exactly like Jubilee is not helpful. NASA is not in power. It has no record of stealing public funds as a government in power while Jubilee has a fat file, NASA has no record of extrajudicial killings as a government in power, no record of stealing elections while Jubilee has a SCOK ruling against them. Nobody is saying NASA is a saint but they are not Jubilee.
You're being extremely selective with history.
An honest cursory glance at the main players of NASA tells a very different story, for example, Weta telling off western diplomats in 2008 at the height of the mass shooting of Luos in Kisumu. Now compare Weta's past behaviour with, say, the Ruto of today on CNN with the Ruto of 2008 gnashing his teeth in anger.
Musical chairs played by thugs in suits and we're supposed to be taking them seriously?
Really?
It could be suggested that weta is improving while Ruto is regressing.
Yes it could.
But that doesn't change the fact that Weta, just like Ruto among very many, made his money by stealing and enjoying impunity brought about by our broken system that they took advantage of.
Latter day saint? [emoji848]
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Empo - you're a funny dude like moonki - we play with the cards we are dealt with - not those we desire. These cards we are dealt with because of history, nature, circumstances,even weather...etc.
Kenya find itself in the situation it is - and you cannot suggest un-realistic and unpractical solutions to the problem. Yes our politician are all corrupt and name it - but they are the best we've got - all factors considered - and we will work with them - to move the country forward or backward. The idea that some silver bullet of industralization will pull kenya out is total nonsese. Do this - as individual do it - start a small manufacturing company and get out of poverty - and that will be nice example for many to follow. Of course talk is cheap.
Kenya is not doing badly - it just need to double it's growth rate. It need to accelerate investment in public sector - roads, schools, power etc. We are already low-middle-income country - Nairobi is one of Africa shinning city - and it not all gloom -doom - on the contrary you just need to visit our neighbours to realize kenyans have worked hard and smart to be where it is - slightly better than Uganda, TZ, Rwanda, Burundi, Zambia, Congo, Ethiopia, Somalia - name them.
RV, I get it, you're pushing a narrative, just like NASA supporters.
If you've some time, have a look at at this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5vqk2v/how_did_south_korea_become_such_a_powerhouse/de4agzb/
We're facing starvation next year, yet again.
Yes, we're doing fine.
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The people who were starving are facing floods right now. Turkana. They are least bothered by political news from Nairobi.
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The people who were starving are facing floods right now. Turkana. They are least bothered by political news from Nairobi.
Too true.
Sadly, neither are any of the coalitions either, yet they want to "run" the country, promising us a brighter future, begging bowl on the ready.
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South Korea is small country of 100km by 100km - that is size of one county in kenya - and the amount of dollars and fdi they got from US - was enough to transform it anyway- and fact that it sit next to Japan - an industrial power house - make that model inapplicable to kenya.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5vqk2v/how_did_south_korea_become_such_a_powerhouse/de4agzb/
We're facing starvation next year, yet again.
Yes, we're doing fine.
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South Korea is small country of 100km by 100km - that is size of one county in kenya - and the amount of dollars and fdi they got from US - was enough to transform it anyway- and fact that it sit next to Japan - an industrial power house - make that model inapplicable to kenya.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5vqk2v/how_did_south_korea_become_such_a_powerhouse/de4agzb/
We're facing starvation next year, yet again.
Yes, we're doing fine.
From Jomo's days, we're always, and I mean ALWAYS, looking for reasons to continue the patronage system of government. Selective ignorance of historical lessons is a major part of our many problems.
Out of curiosity, just how much (a ballpark figure suffices) has our political class siphoned out of Kenya over the last 50 years or so? Wouldn't that cash alone have been enough to transform Kenya without our well worn begging bowls?
Neither coalition wants change for wanainchi. They want the big seat and things to continue as before. That's all they understand.
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Pundit the organic growth - with GDP rate equal to population increase - will get us nowhere. The US and Japan didn't just dump $$ into S. Korea. Look at their ease-of-doing-business - I think they are top 10 for decades now. In other words they got the recipe a while back. Sony, Samsung, Hyundai, Daewoo, Ramtons, etc are all homegrown S. Korean MNCs. This is where innovation comes in. If you look at Israel you will see how our problems are kids play. Fix the infra - roads, rail, power, housing, internet,.. - and the rest is domino.
It rarely works without leapfrogs - and our dire state does not stop us from exploring this path.
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Kenya is not nigeria with oil money to siphon - there is very little to siphon here - we are talking taxes - about 20% of GDP - with maybe 10-20% of that being siphoned - so roughly we are talking about 2% of GDP being siphoned - mostly internally. Kenya is poor because it's poor.
From Jomo's days, we're always, and I mean ALWAYS, looking for reasons to continue the patronage system of government. Selective ignorance of historical lessons is a major part of our many problems.
Out of curiosity, just how much (a ballpark figure suffices) has our political class siphoned out of Kenya over the last 50 years or so? Wouldn't that cash alone have been enough to transform Kenya without our well worn begging bowls?
Neither coalition wants change for wanainchi. They want the big seat and things to continue as before. That's all they understand.
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I agree - luckly we are somehow dealing with population growth - and we have opportunities like M-pesa to leafrog. I think South Korea model is overplayed. I don't think kenya is doing that badly..in 10-15yrs we will be in South Africa level - around 5K usd gdp per capita - with around 200-300B usd economy.
Pundit the organic growth - with GDP rate equal to population increase - will get us nowhere. The US and Japan didn't just dump $$ into S. Korea. Look at their ease-of-doing-business - I think they are top 10 for decades now. In other words they got the recipe a while back. Sony, Samsung, Hyundai, Daewoo, Ramtons, etc are all homegrown S. Korean MNCs. This is where innovation comes in. If you look at Israel you will see how our problems are kids play. Fix the infra - roads, rail, power, housing, internet,.. - and the rest is domino.
It rarely works without leapfrogs - and our dire state does not stop us from exploring this path.
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You will be surprised to find folks don't know this. They believe Moi or Kenyatta took all their money. :D The peanut $75B economy yields just $15B revenues - 20% of GDP - while UK with equal population and size has $1T revenues. And some folks think social welfare can work here like in the UK or Sweden.
Kenya is not nigeria with oil money to siphon - there is very little to siphon here - we are talking taxes - about 20% of GDP - with maybe 10-20% of that being siphoned - so roughly we are talking about 2% of GDP being siphoned - mostly internally. Kenya is poor because it's poor.
From Jomo's days, we're always, and I mean ALWAYS, looking for reasons to continue the patronage system of government. Selective ignorance of historical lessons is a major part of our many problems.
Out of curiosity, just how much (a ballpark figure suffices) has our political class siphoned out of Kenya over the last 50 years or so? Wouldn't that cash alone have been enough to transform Kenya without our well worn begging bowls?
Neither coalition wants change for wanainchi. They want the big seat and things to continue as before. That's all they understand.
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What democracy where tribe supersedes any rational thinking? Till in 50 years when problems such as unemployment, hunger, collapsed hospitals and poor roads, rise above tribal lords mobilisation, there is little hope for Africa. Serious plunder as being executed by Jubilee and regimes across Africa can work well to lessen the timelines given the investments into education.
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South Korea is small country of 100km by 100km - that is size of one county in kenya - and the amount of dollars and fdi they got from US - was enough to transform it anyway- and fact that it sit next to Japan - an industrial power house - make that model inapplicable to kenya.
At a first cut, population size is more significant that physical area. The population of South Korea is around 51 million.
Area matters in terms of land for agriculture and population density etc. In any case you have the area hopelessly wrong. It is nothing like 100km by 100km. Do you ever get tired of simply making up absurd "facts"?
Also, while Kenya might be physically large, the population is actually concentrated in a relatively small part.
Given that you are so far off-base on even basic facts, it would probably be pointless to ask you give USA FDI amounts by year, what it went into, and what effect it had. For example, what was the total amount of FDI that went into South Korea from all sources (not just the USA) from, say, 1960 to 1980? When did the country liberalize regulations on FDI? Etc.
Likewise it would probably be pointless to ask you exactly how the proximity of Japan made that "model" more applicable in South Korea than it would be elsewhere.
All in all, I'd recommend a quick study of some simple facts and then a real reading of the history of the place.
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Do this - as individual do it - start a small manufacturing company and get out of poverty - and that will be nice example for many to follow.
And then adds:
Of course talk is cheap.
Indeed.
But yet:
it just need to double it's growth rate.
Yep. It just need that to do that. Simple like that.
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The people who were starving are facing floods right now. Turkana. They are least bothered by political news from Nairobi.
Yes, right now. Are food problems in Turkana new? Does anyone in Kenya ever look beyond "right now"? And are the seriously-hungry really just in Turkana? Take a close look at the data.
Uncle Sam (where the first "international community, saidia please!" will go) has, since around July, been warning that Kenyan food production in 2017 will be significantly lower than in 2016---by about 20%-30%---and that this will cause significant problems in supply and prices. For the entire country.
Anyone (especially "leaders") in The Great Country planning, or even just talking, about that? Also take a look at all the warnings that have been flying since the start of 2017.
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Someone stickied this topic? Perhaps Windy's latest thread on Okiya Omtatah's petition will be more up to date. I'll drop this one and bring his up.