Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: KenyanPlato on August 22, 2017, 01:45:16 PM
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https://www.tuko.news/5610-railas-technical-adviser-kenya-divided-two.html
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/877/524/634/kenyan/
Good move by ODM. Let us divide this country and each tribe can have its won country
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We already have devolution that cures to 35% (now) the winner -take-all. This is negative energy that should be channeled in deepening devolution.
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We are going FULL Federal. Here is the Map we are working on
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Dream on.
We are going FULL Federal. Here is the Map we are working on
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We already have devolution that cures to 35% (now) the winner -take-all. This is negative energy that should be channeled in deepening devolution.
The presidency and its symbolism is still a big deal, though. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here boasting of Kyuk-Kalenjin tagteam rule for 50 years. Its obviously very important to you and the Kalenjin and Central to do that so why is it a big suprise (or negative energy) when the others value it just as much?
PS: I am NOT supporting secession. I do understand those who want it, though. If they asked me, I would say that rather than secede we need to dismantle this system and come up with one that fully faces our tribal issues and takes care of them head on, hata kama it's a mix of democracy and rotational presidency and parliamentary rule to curb all of them; something other than 2 tribes eating meat alone for 50 years at the exclusion of others. That can only breed the sentiments that lead to secession, civil war or at the least, constant unrest down the line. Countries that don't take care to cultivate nationalism end up facing problems like this down the line. They must find a way to do it like Nyerere hata kama ni nini,
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I am not dreaming; I am just laying it bare in my job as dispassionate pundit; I am just making an observation of what is most likely to happen. You see the problem that NASA find itself in are political - and they can be fixed politically. In 2007 if someone told you Kalenjin and Kikuyu would be bosom friend - you'd have dismiss it - by Kalenjin and Kikuyu sat down, talked and buried their hatchet - and now this country is as stable as it always been when Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017.
Talk is cheap. Power concede nothing. NASA and the communities supporting it are heading nowhere. They don't have the wherewithal or the stomach for any secession fight leave alone 2007 civil disobedience that was mainly driven by Kalenjin. They don't have warriors or mau mau or money or power to do shiet. They are just wasting time.
My advice to them is to join Jubilee & bid their time - death of any of the political actors could change the equation. Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed.
We also should all work on getting devolution working.
The presidency and its symbolism is still a big deal, though. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here boasting of Kyuk-Kalenjin tagteam rule for 50 years. Its obviously very important to you and the Kalenjin and Central to do that so why is it a big suprise (or negative energy) when the others value it just as much?
PS: I am NOT supporting secession. I do understand those who want it, though. If they asked me, I would say that rather than secede we need to dismantle this system and come up with one that fully faces our tribal issues and takes care of them head on, hata kama it's a mix of democracy and rotational presidency and parliamentary rule to curb all of them; something other than 2 tribes eating meat alone for 50 years at the exclusion of others. That can only breed the sentiments that lead to secession, civil war or at the least, constant unrest down the line. Countries that don't take care to cultivate nationalism end up facing problems like this down the line. They must find a way to do it like Nyerere hata kama ni nini,
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I am not dreaming; I am just laying it bare in my job as dispassionate pundit; I am just making an observation of what is most likely to happen. You see the problem that NASA find itself in are political - and they can be fixed politically. In 2007 if someone told you Kalenjin and Kikuyu would be bosom friend - you'd have dismiss it - by Kalenjin and Kikuyu sat down, talked and buried their hatchet - and now this country is as stable as it always been when Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017.
Talk is cheap. Power concede nothing. NASA and the communities supporting it are heading nowhere. They don't have the wherewithal or the stomach for any secession fight leave alone 2007 civil disobedience that was mainly driven by Kalenjin. They don't have warriors or mau mau or money or power to do shiet. They are just wasting time.
My advice to them is to join Jubilee & bid their time - death of any of the political actors could change the equation. Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed.
We also should all work on getting devolution working.
The presidency and its symbolism is still a big deal, though. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here boasting of Kyuk-Kalenjin tagteam rule for 50 years. Its obviously very important to you and the Kalenjin and Central to do that so why is it a big suprise (or negative energy) when the others value it just as much?
PS: I am NOT supporting secession. I do understand those who want it, though. If they asked me, I would say that rather than secede we need to dismantle this system and come up with one that fully faces our tribal issues and takes care of them head on, hata kama it's a mix of democracy and rotational presidency and parliamentary rule to curb all of them; something other than 2 tribes eating meat alone for 50 years at the exclusion of others. That can only breed the sentiments that lead to secession, civil war or at the least, constant unrest down the line. Countries that don't take care to cultivate nationalism end up facing problems like this down the line. They must find a way to do it like Nyerere hata kama ni nini,
Now there is no desire for a fight. Even Dr. Ndii is only contemplating a peaceful process. But I'm not talking about now, of course. I'm talking about a future in which two tribes swap the presidency indefinitely. That will not happen with peace. Just talking as someone who knows how humans are, not as an expert. Expecting peaceful subservience to that arrangement to continue for decades is also a pipe dream. It may happen but not in peace. At some point Raila will be replaced by far more radical elements who will take advantage of the seething resentment that at that point (if your predictions pan out) will have grown to fever pitch.
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What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
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Its inevitable that we'll have more devolution or federalism which is what most people have been advocating for. If its more devolution counties should keep a percentage of revenue derived from counties. After all even Ndii advocates for starving the beast (national government). Devolution started by setting up of district development funds then CDF , today counties. Future, more devolved funds and functions.
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This would be the right time to have that conservation - but most of governors have dissappointed - in executing 17 functions - health esp - and therefore maybe after this new lot are done with 5yrs - we can review.
Its inevitable that we'll have more devolution or federalism which is what most people have been advocating for. If its more devolution counties should keep a percentage of revenue derived from counties. After all even Ndii advocates for starving the beast (national government). Devolution started by setting up of district development funds then CDF , today counties. Future, more devolved funds and functions.
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Pundit
You time of reckoning is fast approaching. You will join those seeking self determination faster than Ruto will drop dead.
I have no idea what you think of your own people the Kalenjin - Gods or Angels. But in typical fashion you are unschooled in recent history and your analysis of events limited to what you pick up in gossip and gossip in the mafia circles. It is not even a proper analysis if the tribal constellations. You are busy spamming every thread with the "results" of your Mother of All Stuffing (MOAS) as if anybody with a working brain cell (even those with dying baboon brain cells) is unaware of the Computer Generated Elections. You are threofge using these spam forms to try to cheat the gullible that there was an election and that the propaganda handed to you to spread and prepare the world for the pre-determined results was indeed real people voting.
It was those silly tribes that brought Moi to his knees. BTW Moi is a Kalenjin, is he not? None of his people came to his aide when we made Nairobi and other major cities ungovernable. He unleashed terror including detention without trial, disappearances, killings, forced exile etc - but failed. Uhuru lacks the balls to do the same and if he did, he would not last a week.
You said the same thing when CORD embarked on the programe to cut IEBC to size and make future theft harder to hide. You said without Kalenjin and Kikuyu, CORD cannot force your beloved government to it knees. Need I remind you that CORD did?
Your response was the typical subterfuge and denial - something that has become your trade mark over the years.
Let me go back to the main gist of my post and that is your time as the support tribe for the Kikuyu is up. They do not need you anymore because your demands would violate the whole goal and objective of Uthamaki. They have several options:
1. Renegotiate the Ruto deal for him to accept to be Eternal DP
2. Make a new deal with a new broker
3. Abrogate the deal with the Kalenjin and make a new deal with another tribal demagogue ready to sell his people like Ruto
Number 1. They could make a new deal - because Ruto has no options with which to threaten GEMA now. No alliances nothing. So they have him by the balls. Even if he agreed to a new deal making him eternal DP, his people may not follow him as dutifully as some of his tame dogs
Number two: GEMA has made a new deal with Charles Keter. That means you can guess what they have done with the o0ld deal. Take it to the bank any time. It means he accepts to deliver the kalenjin vote in exchange for the position of DP
Number Three: It is possible if they can find the tribe. There three viable tribes: Luhya, Luo and Kamba plus. The problem with this one is that once they kick out the Kalenjin, they create the 2007 constellation against themselves. But the idea of having a new Moi terrifies Uthamaki.
It is called DENOUEMENT. It is coming Brother Pundit.
Some stupid things you have said:
Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017: That so called stability arose from the destruction of a democratic society to a despotism. Now if Uhuru is ready and willing to detain or kill Raila, Mudavadi, Kalonzo, Wetangula and all the "radical" MPs and senators; in addition to setting up a police state censoring newspapers, movement and everything, he might just pull it off.
Moi was beaten with purely peaceful means.
Remember though, at the time, Kenyans lacked the capacity to stage armed resistance. In Uganda they did as they did in Ethiopia and Zanzibar. The conditions that prevented that are largely absent. So he would most likely see an alliance between Al shabaab and some local coastal insurgents which would spread, initially strengthening his hand but ultimately weakening him.
You have overestimated the role of the Kalenjin in 2007. I can't blame you because you live for your tribe. There are gallant efforts that were contributed by many people in Kenya.
Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed: You are lucky to be so poor at history. Otherwise you would know how many people have uttered those words and ALL got it wrong. In addition they paid heavily for the same. Poor man. A version of Upende usipende was uttered by Shariff Nassir.
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It is Idiot Day today
Its inevitable that we'll have more devolution or federalism which is what most people have been advocating for. If its more devolution counties should keep a percentage of revenue derived from counties. After all even Ndii advocates for starving the beast (national government). Devolution started by setting up of district development funds then CDF , today counties. Future, more devolved funds and functions.
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I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.
It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition". It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.
In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.
What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
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Bla - de- Bla - omollosque nonsense. Like you I told you TRACK RECORD matters. You track record here is a huge disaster.
Pundit
You time of reckoning is fast approaching. You will join those seeking self determination faster than Ruto will drop dead.
I have no idea what you think of your own people the Kalenjin - Gods or Angels. But in typical fashion you are unschooled in recent history and your analysis of events limited to what you pick up in gossip and gossip in the mafia circles. It is not even a proper analysis if the tribal constellations. You are busy spamming every thread with the "results" of your Mother of All Stuffing (MOAS) as if anybody with a working brain cell (even those with dying baboon brain cells) is unaware of the Computer Generated Elections. You are threofge using these spam forms to try to cheat the gullible that there was an election and that the propaganda handed to you to spread and prepare the world for the pre-determined results was indeed real people voting.
It was those silly tribes that brought Moi to his knees. BTW Moi is a Kalenjin, is he not? None of his people came to his aide when we made Nairobi and other major cities ungovernable. He unleashed terror including detention without trial, disappearances, killings, forced exile etc - but failed. Uhuru lacks the balls to do the same and if he did, he would not last a week.
You said the same thing when CORD embarked on the programe to cut IEBC to size and make future theft harder to hide. You said without Kalenjin and Kikuyu, CORD cannot force your beloved government to it knees. Need I remind you that CORD did?
Your response was the typical subterfuge and denial - something that has become your trade mark over the years.
Let me go back to the main gist of my post and that is your time as the support tribe for the Kikuyu is up. They do not need you anymore because your demands would violate the whole goal and objective of Uthamaki. They have several options:
1. Renegotiate the Ruto deal for him to accept to be Eternal DP
2. Make a new deal with a new broker
3. Abrogate the deal with the Kalenjin and make a new deal with another tribal demagogue ready to sell his people like Ruto
Number 1. They could make a new deal - because Ruto has no options with which to threaten GEMA now. No alliances nothing. So they have him by the balls. Even if he agreed to a new deal making him eternal DP, his people may not follow him as dutifully as some of his tame dogs
Number two: GEMA has made a new deal with Charles Keter. That means you can guess what they have done with the o0ld deal. Take it to the bank any time. It means he accepts to deliver the kalenjin vote in exchange for the position of DP
Number Three: It is possible if they can find the tribe. There three viable tribes: Luhya, Luo and Kamba plus. The problem with this one is that once they kick out the Kalenjin, they create the 2007 constellation against themselves. But the idea of having a new Moi terrifies Uthamaki.
It is called DENOUEMENT. It is coming Brother Pundit.
Some stupid things you have said:
Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017: That so called stability arose from the destruction of a democratic society to a despotism. Now if Uhuru is ready and willing to detain or kill Raila, Mudavadi, Kalonzo, Wetangula and all the "radical" MPs and senators; in addition to setting up a police state censoring newspapers, movement and everything, he might just pull it off.
Moi was beaten with purely peaceful means.
Remember though, at the time, Kenyans lacked the capacity to stage armed resistance. In Uganda they did as they did in Ethiopia and Zanzibar. The conditions that prevented that are largely absent. So he would most likely see an alliance between Al shabaab and some local coastal insurgents which would spread, initially strengthening his hand but ultimately weakening him.
You have overestimated the role of the Kalenjin in 2007. I can't blame you because you live for your tribe. There are gallant efforts that were contributed by many people in Kenya.
Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed: You are lucky to be so poor at history. Otherwise you would know how many people have uttered those words and ALL got it wrong. In addition they paid heavily for the same. Poor man. A version of Upende usipende was uttered by Shariff Nassir.
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I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.
It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition". It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.
In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.
Who would you equate to Ndii in Jubilee?
I bet if they started singing secession tunes you would naturally conclude that was Jubilee's idea. That's all I said. And if the idea was totally repulsive and contrary to NASWA's ideals, they at least should ask him to stop, or distance themselves from it. Whatever Babu announced today is ambiguous and not stark opposite of secession.
Here I was talking not about secession but the usual rhetoric of how Kenya is 'divided' following every election, and thus in need of 'healing'.
My opinion on secession is it's even more disgusting to international community than mass action. This is a good academic discourse devoid of any practicality.
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I can't blame you: You are reduced to recycling propaganda handed to you. You can no longer sustain an argument.
I was not addressing you. My focus is on those who may swallow your propaganda believing you have some knowledge of Kenyan history. So feel free to add the Bla bla blas. That I can't contradict.
Bla - de- Bla - omollosque nonsense. Like you I told you TRACK RECORD matters. You track record here is a huge disaster.
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What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
There is none that I am aware of. It might require a change of constitution. The hard part about secession is that it needs international actors in the form of recognition. Otherwise you end up with a Somaliland kind of situation.
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What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
There is none that I am aware of. It might require a change of constitution. The hard part about secession is that it needs international actors in the form of recognition. Otherwise you end up with a Somaliland kind of situation.
Thanks.
I edited my post and remarked that I doubt it'd have the blessing of the international community
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I understand it looks like that. However Ndii has on many occasions clearly and publicly sought to distinguish his personal views and the views of NASA / CORD. I assume it is his nature and as a scholar. He sees a disunion between the two.
Association aside, it is NOT a NASA position.
I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.
It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition". It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.
In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.
Who would you equate to Ndii in Jubilee?
I bet if they started singing secession tunes you would naturally conclude that was Jubilee's idea. That's all I said. And if the idea was totally repulsive and contrary to NASWA's ideals, they at least should ask him to stop, or distance themselves from it. Whatever Babu announced today is ambiguous and not stark opposite of secession.
Here I was talking not about secession but the usual rhetoric of how Kenya is 'divided' following every election, and thus in need of 'healing'.
My opinion on secession is it's even more disgusting to international community than mass action. This is a good academic discourse devoid of any practicality.
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The country is divided. You can't notice if you are GEMA or Kalenjin supporting Ruto.
Read the petition. It provides the answers to your question.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/877/524/634/kenyan/
I decided to help you out:
(http://omollosview.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/self-determination.jpg)
What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
-
What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
There is none that I am aware of. It might require a change of constitution. The hard part about secession is that it needs international actors in the form of recognition. Otherwise you end up with a Somaliland kind of situation.
Thanks.
I edited my post and remarked that I doubt it'd have the blessing of the international community
Yep. Many of them, especially in the AU, are terrified of secessionist movements. If one can convince the AU that it is the right way to go, the rest are just formalities.
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What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
There is none that I am aware of. It might require a change of constitution. The hard part about secession is that it needs international actors in the form of recognition. Otherwise you end up with a Somaliland kind of situation.
The politics of recognition are complex because the law is unclear and in practice each state decides for itself whether or not to recognize a new state or government usually based on its own interests. A consensus might build one way or the other depending on any number of factors. But I'd say that where Western interests are not implicated, the most crucial elements would be regional.
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Handed over to me: ) :)
I can't blame you: You are reduced to recycling propaganda handed to you. You can no longer sustain an argument.
I was not addressing you. My focus is on those who may swallow your propaganda believing you have some knowledge of Kenyan history. So feel free to add the Bla bla blas. That I can't contradict.
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I understand it looks like that. However Ndii has on many occasions clearly and publicly sought to distinguish his personal views and the views of NASA / CORD. I assume it is his nature and as a scholar. He sees a disunion between the two.
Association aside, it is NOT a NASA position.
Thanks for clarification. Ndii is on his own on this.
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(http://omollosview.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/self-determination.jpg)
I understand it looks like that. However Ndii has on many occasions clearly and publicly sought to distinguish his personal views and the views of NASA / CORD. I assume it is his nature and as a scholar. He sees a disunion between the two.
Association aside, it is NOT a NASA position.
Thanks for clarification. Ndii is on his own on this.
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What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
There is none that I am aware of. It might require a change of constitution. The hard part about secession is that it needs international actors in the form of recognition. Otherwise you end up with a Somaliland kind of situation.
The politics of recognition are complex because the law is unclear and in practice each state decides for itself whether or not to recognize a new state or government usually based on its own interests. A consensus might build one way or the other depending on any number of factors. But I'd say that where Western interests are not implicated, the most crucial elements would be regional.
I agree. And that is where AU comes in. AU states have a good reason to fear secession, because most of them are just entities cobbled by bazungu for the benefit of the west.
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Remember there is oil in Turkana. Uganda needs Mombasa
I agree. And that is where AU comes in. AU states have a good reason to fear secession, because most of them are just entities cobbled by bazungu for the benefit of the west.
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Yep. Many of them, especially in the AU, are terrified of secessionist movements. If one can convince the AU that it is the right way to go, the rest are just formalities.
Yes, in general, states are not into anything that threatens their "territorial integrity" including Bazungu states. But there is a lot that determines these things and I'd say it's a case by case basis for each as there is no clear rule. If it happened in a peaceful/legal process, if the rest are convinced of genuine reasons for it (there are good arguments that could be made that Kenya couldn't qualify, seeing as it's not an apartheid state (clear oppression of those who want to secede) or something along those lines), Western interests will also screw everything up whichever direction that pleases them as we all unfortunately know. In general, the world is pro "internal self-determination" (non-discrimination. equal participation etc etc) but weary of "external self-determination" (new states etc) but go that way depending on the politics of the day. It'd be hard to tell at this point how that would end up.
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Remember there is oil in Turkana. Uganda needs Mombasa
I agree. And that is where AU comes in. AU states have a good reason to fear secession, because most of them are just entities cobbled by bazungu for the benefit of the west.
Oil and any other natural resources would actually raise the stakes further. Still, if secession is just a means of getting some other people a chance to loot, it may not be materially any different than what we currently have.
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Remember there is oil in Turkana. Uganda needs Mombasa
I agree. And that is where AU comes in. AU states have a good reason to fear secession, because most of them are just entities cobbled by bazungu for the benefit of the west.
Call me a cynic but I doubt oil is a bargaining chip. Unless the prices shoot back up to $80 a barrel, I think ours will remain firmly under. Jubilee manufactured a hero in Nanok out of nothing
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How is South Sudan doing. That should be clue for those calling for secession. On which ground? inability to win PORK :) You can get all AU or UN or US permission to secede but now way kenya will allow an inch of it's territory to secede peacefully. You got to fight for it. You have no stomach for such a fight.
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How is South Sudan doing. That should be clue for those calling for secession. On which ground? inability to win PORK :) You can get all AU or UN or US permission to secede but now way kenya will allow an inch of it's territory to secede peacefully. You got to fight for it. You have no stomach for such a fight.
There might indeed be a fight if that is the direction it takes. But if one can garner international recognition, that is just a formality. A bloody one for sure, but a formality.
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First get war out of your mind.
Then think about the issue that Kadame raised: Recognition.
Now conjure up Somaliland and ask yourself why it is not being recognized? Before you answer ask yourself again: If they had diamonds or Oil or some rare mineral, how long would China or US take before elbowing Russia and the EU for those resources in exchange for recognition?
Think of South Sudan. It was a forgotten war. Until someone stumbled on oil. I could not count the number of secret runways built in the middle of highways by different countries as "aid".
I think Oil prices will rise again. But the power of oil countries will be diminished. As soon as fracking ends, the oil prices will shoot up. Many experts have given hydraulic fracturing (fracking) a shorter lifespan than the industry itself admits.
Call me a cynic but I doubt oil is a bargaining chip. Unless the prices shoot back up to $80 a barrel, I think ours will remain firmly under. Jubilee manufactured a hero in Nanok out of nothing
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A raving lunatic
(https://scontent.fnbo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20953502_1916387598610696_1513574728620666208_n.jpg?oh=1fe9b626d6a07221d7c0887de2187abe&oe=5A1D18E1)
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Bakassi region was settled peacefully between Nigeria and Cameroon. Eritrea though fought over eventually gained freedom peacefully by agreement between the parties following the fall of the dictator.
South Sudan the same.
Plenty of precedents.
There might indeed be a fight if that is the direction it takes. But if one can garner international recognition, that is just a formality. A bloody one for sure, but a formality.
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Bakassi region was settled peacefully between Nigeria and Cameroon. Eritrea though fought over eventually gained freedom peacefully by agreement between the parties following the fall of the dictator.
South Sudan the same.
Plenty of precedents.
There might indeed be a fight if that is the direction it takes. But if one can garner international recognition, that is just a formality. A bloody one for sure, but a formality.
I think the recognition part is the most important. If you can get the backing of the major international players, you are home and dry. Biafra did not fail because Igbos have small dicks, but because they only got TZ and maybe another country to recognize them.
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I, Okiya Omtatah Okoiti, am for self determination but not through cessation.
I strongly believe that we have a design flaw in our Constitution, wherein we devolved all organs of governance except the presidency.
Hence, for me, the solution lies in amending Article 138 of the Constitution to devolve the presidency by removing the provision inadvertently created in law for the ethnic mobilisation of the national electorate at presidential elections.
There is the urgent need to fully devolve the presidency to the 47 counties, the way the American founding fathers devolved their presidency to all the states that make up the United States of America.
It is only by ensuring that a President is elected by a popular vote weighted at the county level and not nationally that the stranglehold on national politics by the big five tribes will be broken.
Each county would be assigned the number of electoral points equivalent to the number of constituencies it has plus one extra point underscoring that all counties are equal.
We have 290 constituencies + 47 counties totalling 337 electoral points.
One would be required to win the popular vote in the number of counties required to garner at least 169 electoral points (being more than half (or 50% + 1) of the points). That way, the big five tribes (Luhyia, Kamba, & Luo (i.e. NASA) on the one hand, & the Kalejin & Kikuyu (Jubilee) on the other), which dominate national politics in Kenya simply due to their sizeable populations will be cut down to size given that significant members of these five tribes are minorities in other counties.
The tribes only become significant when tallied nationally. When tallied at the county level, even Lamu County with only two constituencies would have three vital electoral points which, though not enough to produce a president, can prevent one from being a president.
Hence, Lamu will not be insignificant in the scheme of things, & those seeking the presidency will not flaunt the national sizes of their tribes at Lamu; they will tell Lamu their agenda for the county. And with that, the seeds for issue based national politics would have been planted and even an El Molo with the right ideas will have a realistic opportunity to be elected the President of Kenya.
Regards,
Omtatah.
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Credible solutions people, not this CRAP!
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This is fantastic news. Let Uthamakistan anoint their leader and his sidekick for life.
No hard feelings, it's just about having a healthy sense of right and wrong and loving justice, freedom etc.
Divorce now!
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I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.
It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition". It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.
In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.
What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
Omollo, I strongly request you to refrain from using abusive language against anyone here. Try, no matter how hard you may find it, to remain civil.
Kapisch?
Now to the matter at hand, as I had outlined in the other thread. David Ndii, on behalf of NASA and/or with NASA's approval, is directly threatening the SCOK through veiled threats and intimidation. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why. Ndii, as a representative of NASA, is not stupid. He knows very well that the petition doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Did you read the transcript of RAO's speech at Joho's swearing in?
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20915547_1208880375884023_7286960220474337262_n.jpg?oh=77c9f4bda11f67bd53cf0adce14ac830&oe=5A6107A7)
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21078345_1208880415884019_3103000155769384557_n.jpg?oh=639a09049f85c1dd04048224d4d3e547&oe=5A2D2DCA)
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20954011_1208880439217350_3090279213086858947_n.jpg?oh=eb5bb7463e9f7029aa727af55a271286&oe=5A1F5C94)
Same play book, as I'd earlier written (which you vehemently denied).
And the sad thing, you're falling for it yet again.
Oh, and one other thing; this move by NASA is doomed to fail, not because of Jubilee but because of the way NASA bungled it. Don't you realize that even the international community can see right through this sad and pathetic attempt?
Don't bother raging against me, rage against the architects of this misguided and desperate move.
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views from TOP2.
I do not understand these Jubilee fanatics. They pretend to be so offended whenever anyone mentions secession but spend all day all year 24/7 insulting other Kenyans. What is the point of being against divorce if you can't stand half of the population. Do you get some sort of sick satisfaction doing this. You think Kenyans are going to keep up with this impracticable najivunia nonsense for the next 100 years. Think again.
These fanatics are only worried about today and protecting Jubilee image today. Nothing else concerns you. Due to short memories you have forgotten the Nyayo Moi days when Okuyus were crying about how evil and bad Kenya is. Now that you are in power you think it will last forever.
One day these communist Jaluos will be in power and then you will wish you divorced along time ago when you had a chance to set-up a referendum. You will know the true meaning of regret. Keep on arrogantly dismissing divorce. Just wait, it may not come in 2017 or 2022 but you will learn your lesson one day.
Even with the knowledge that wealth generated in Central is being used to finance the expensive lifestyles of mistresses of governors from Counties that produce no revenues you are still unable to think outside the Kenyan box. You have been indoctrinated from birth to love and defend a union that is impossible to sustain. You need to replace the mokimo in your heads with brain matter. You will painfully regret not listening in the future..just wait till you get a taste of revenge these communist have in store for us. Utalia machozi ya enzi ya Nyayo.
@Mheshimiwa, to summarize your post - seems that on this forum - only you and I were old enough to remember that late Ntimama told them to lie flat like envelopes. :roll:
http://www.nipate.com/posting.php?f=2&mode=quote&p=564522&sid=7279756f9db843a53f4865578e05f98f
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I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.
It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition". It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.
In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.
What is the legal path to secession?
I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?
Omollo, I strongly request you to refrain from using abusive language against anyone here. Try, no matter how hard you may find it, to remain civil.
Kapisch?
Now to the matter at hand, as I had outlined in the other thread. David Ndii, on behalf of NASA and/or with NASA's approval, is directly threatening the SCOK through veiled threats and intimidation. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why. Ndii, as a representative of NASA, is not stupid. He knows very well that the petition doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Did you read the transcript of RAO's speech at Joho's swearing in?
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20915547_1208880375884023_7286960220474337262_n.jpg?oh=77c9f4bda11f67bd53cf0adce14ac830&oe=5A6107A7)
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21078345_1208880415884019_3103000155769384557_n.jpg?oh=639a09049f85c1dd04048224d4d3e547&oe=5A2D2DCA)
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20954011_1208880439217350_3090279213086858947_n.jpg?oh=eb5bb7463e9f7029aa727af55a271286&oe=5A1F5C94)
Same play book, as I'd earlier written (which you vehemently denied).
And the sad thing, you're falling for it yet again.
Oh, and one other thing; this move by NASA is doomed to fail, not because of Jubilee but because of the way NASA bungled it. Don't you realize that even the international community can see right through this sad and pathetic attempt?
Don't bother raging against me, rage against the architects of this misguided and desperate move.
I'm sorry but I see nothing there remotely suggestive of secession. Or even threats to the SCOK.
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When you stop throwing your own insults you will count on none coming from me. You may also reduce idiocy or keep it hermetically sealed in your skull without exposing the rest of us to it.
Now feel free to interpret Ndii as you wish. I advised you to take him on directly on Twitter (with the rest of us as witnesses) and not just say he is stupid but your arguments prove to the whole world that he is.
Reading what you write irritates me. I think you barely made it in school. See below how you try to pin something on NASA by pretending to be objective. You make one choice look like two because you are too thick to realize it is the same thing. Then you choose the name of a Philosopher for a handle!
Who taught you comprehension in primary school? ( I hardly think you made to secondary). If you have something to say state it clearly. Asking me if I read Raila's speech and then going ahead to make obscure references known only to the single cell in your skull!
Please don't post anything directed at me. I know you want attention but go get a brain first. International community in your ass.H?
Mshenzi huyu!
Omollo, I strongly request you to refrain from using abusive language against anyone here. Try, no matter how hard you may find it, to remain civil.
Kapisch?
Now to the matter at hand, as I had outlined in the other thread. David Ndii, on behalf of NASA and/or with NASA's approval, is directly threatening the SCOK through veiled threats and intimidation. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why. Ndii, as a representative of NASA, is not stupid. He knows very well that the petition doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Did you read the transcript of RAO's speech at Joho's swearing in? Same play book, as I'd earlier written (which you vehemently denied).
And the sad thing, you're falling for it yet again.
Oh, and one other thing; this move by NASA is doomed to fail, not because of Jubilee but because of the way NASA bungled it. Don't you realize that even the international community can see right through this sad and pathetic attempt?
Don't bother raging against me, rage against the architects of this misguided and desperate move.
-
Kadame
This is why I think you are one of the smartest people here. I am lucky to have you here.
I'm sorry but I see nothing there remotely suggestive of secession. Or even threats to the SCOK.
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When you stop throwing your own insults you will count on none coming from me. You may also reduce idiocy or keep it hermetically sealed in your skull without exposing the rest of us to it.
Now feel free to interpret Ndii as you wish. I advised you to take him on directly on Twitter (with the rest of us as witnesses) and not just say he is stupid but your arguments prove to the whole world that he is.
Reading what you write irritates me. I think you barely made it in school. See below how you try to pin something on NASA by pretending to be objective. You make one choice look like two because you are too thick to realize it is the same thing. Then you choose the name of a Philosopher for a handle!
Who taught you comprehension in primary school? ( I hardly think you made to secondary). If you have something to say state it clearly. Asking me if I read Raila's speech and then going ahead to make obscure references known only to the single cell in your skull!
Please don't post anything directed at me. I know you want attention but go get a brain first. International community in your ass.H?
Mshenzi huyu!
Touched a nerve, didn't I, making you go off on a rage filled tirade, completely ignoring the subject matter.
Thanks (seriously), you provided all the answers I needed.
Have a nice day. 8)
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Omollo,
Empedocles is always respectful in his exchanges. Even when holding views we may disagree with. If he leaves, this forum loses out IMO. There is no need for the insults.
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I'm sorry but I see nothing there remotely suggestive of secession. Or even threats to the SCOK.
It's "dog whistling" to the core supporters and also veiled threats of massive violence if things don't go their way. Read between the lines.
Comrade Omollo picked up on it and he's already unleashed some on my person.
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True. Omollo could have still made the point without insults. Pundit and Empedocles are always civil although Pundit can throw bad words here and there. Omollo goes overboard at times. I want Empedocles to stay and listen to Pundit sing like a canary.
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The oppressor needs the oppressed and they want them to stay in that position for as long as possible. The oppressed should not therefore be surprised that the oppressor disagrees with their plans to liberate themselves. The debate on the method of liberation should therefore be held amongst the oppressed and not with the oppressor.
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There are already 47 Lesothos all over Kenya. Will like to hear the position of NASA governors going forward.
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Kadame
This is why I think you are one of the smartest people here. I am lucky to have you here.
I'm sorry but I see nothing there remotely suggestive of secession. Or even threats to the SCOK.
Wow. Thank you Omollo.