The Lesotho Solution is finally here

[KenyanPlato]

• Tweet

https://www.tuko.news/5610-railas-technical-adviser-kenya-divided-two.html
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/877/524/634/kenyan/
Good move by ODM. Let us divide this country and each tribe can have its won country

[RV Pundit]

We already have devolution that cures to 35% (now) the winner -take-all. This is negative energy that should be channeled in deepening devolution.

[KenyanPlato]

We are going FULL Federal. Here is the Map we are working on

[RV Pundit]

Dream on.

We are going FULL Federal. Here is the Map we are working on

[Kadame6]

We already have devolution that cures to 35% (now) the winner -take-all. This is negative energy that should be channeled in deepening devolution.

The presidency and its symbolism is still a big deal, though. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here boasting of Kyuk-Kalenjin tagteam rule for 50 years. Its obviously very important to you and the Kalenjin and Central to do that so why is it a big suprise (or negative energy) when the others value it just as much?

PS: I am NOT supporting secession. I do understand those who want it, though. If they asked me, I would say that rather than secede we need to dismantle this system and come up with one that fully faces our tribal issues and takes care of them head on, hata kama it's a mix of democracy and rotational presidency and parliamentary rule to curb all of them; something other than 2 tribes eating meat alone for 50 years at the exclusion of others. That can only breed the sentiments that lead to secession, civil war or at the least, constant unrest down the line. Countries that don't take care to cultivate nationalism end up facing problems like this down the line. They must find a way to do it like Nyerere hata kama ni nini,

[RV Pundit]

I am not dreaming; I am just laying it bare in my job as dispassionate pundit; I am just making an observation of what is most likely to happen. You see the problem that NASA find itself in are political - and they can be fixed politically. In 2007 if someone told you Kalenjin and Kikuyu would be bosom friend - you'd have dismiss it - by Kalenjin and Kikuyu sat down, talked and buried their hatchet - and now this country is as stable as it always been when Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017.

Talk is cheap. Power concede nothing. NASA and the communities supporting it are heading nowhere. They don't have the wherewithal or the stomach for any secession fight leave alone 2007 civil disobedience that was mainly driven by Kalenjin. They don't have warriors or mau mau or money or power to do shiet. They are just wasting time.

My advice to them is to join Jubilee & bid their time - death of any of the political actors could change the equation. Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed.

We also should all work on getting devolution working.

The presidency and its symbolism is still a big deal, though. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here boasting of Kyuk-Kalenjin tagteam rule for 50 years. Its obviously very important to you and the Kalenjin and Central to do that so why is it a big suprise (or negative energy) when the others value it just as much?

PS: I am NOT supporting secession. I do understand those who want it, though. If they asked me, I would say that rather than secede we need to dismantle this system and come up with one that fully faces our tribal issues and takes care of them head on, hata kama it's a mix of democracy and rotational presidency and parliamentary rule to curb all of them; something other than 2 tribes eating meat alone for 50 years at the exclusion of others. That can only breed the sentiments that lead to secession, civil war or at the least, constant unrest down the line. Countries that don't take care to cultivate nationalism end up facing problems like this down the line. They must find a way to do it like Nyerere hata kama ni nini,

[Kadame6]

I am not dreaming; I am just laying it bare in my job as dispassionate pundit; I am just making an observation of what is most likely to happen. You see the problem that NASA find itself in are political - and they can be fixed politically. In 2007 if someone told you Kalenjin and Kikuyu would be bosom friend - you'd have dismiss it - by Kalenjin and Kikuyu sat down, talked and buried their hatchet - and now this country is as stable as it always been when Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017.

Talk is cheap. Power concede nothing. NASA and the communities supporting it are heading nowhere. They don't have the wherewithal or the stomach for any secession fight leave alone 2007 civil disobedience that was mainly driven by Kalenjin. They don't have warriors or mau mau or money or power to do shiet. They are just wasting time.

My advice to them is to join Jubilee & bid their time - death of any of the political actors could change the equation. Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed.

We also should all work on getting devolution working.

The presidency and its symbolism is still a big deal, though. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here boasting of Kyuk-Kalenjin tagteam rule for 50 years. Its obviously very important to you and the Kalenjin and Central to do that so why is it a big suprise (or negative energy) when the others value it just as much?

PS: I am NOT supporting secession. I do understand those who want it, though. If they asked me, I would say that rather than secede we need to dismantle this system and come up with one that fully faces our tribal issues and takes care of them head on, hata kama it's a mix of democracy and rotational presidency and parliamentary rule to curb all of them; something other than 2 tribes eating meat alone for 50 years at the exclusion of others. That can only breed the sentiments that lead to secession, civil war or at the least, constant unrest down the line. Countries that don't take care to cultivate nationalism end up facing problems like this down the line. They must find a way to do it like Nyerere hata kama ni nini,

Now there is no desire for a fight. Even Dr. Ndii is only contemplating a peaceful process. But I'm not talking about now, of course. I'm talking about a future in which two tribes swap the presidency indefinitely. That will not happen with peace. Just talking as someone who knows how humans are, not as an expert. Expecting peaceful subservience to that arrangement to continue for decades is also a pipe dream. It may happen but not in peace. At some point Raila will be replaced by far more radical elements who will take advantage of the seething resentment that at that point (if your predictions pan out) will have grown to fever pitch.

[vooke]

What is the legal path to secession?


I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?

[hk]

Its inevitable that we'll have more devolution or federalism which is what most people have been advocating for. If its more devolution counties should keep a percentage of revenue derived from counties. After all even Ndii advocates for starving the beast (national government). Devolution started by setting up of district development funds then CDF , today counties. Future, more devolved funds and functions.

[RV Pundit]

This would be the right time to have that conservation - but most of governors have dissappointed - in executing 17 functions - health esp - and therefore maybe after this new lot are done with 5yrs - we can review.

Its inevitable that we'll have more devolution or federalism which is what most people have been advocating for. If its more devolution counties should keep a percentage of revenue derived from counties. After all even Ndii advocates for starving the beast (national government). Devolution started by setting up of district development funds then CDF , today counties. Future, more devolved funds and functions.

[Omollo]

Pundit

You time of reckoning is fast approaching. You will join those seeking self determination faster than Ruto will drop dead.

I have no idea what you think of your own people the Kalenjin - Gods or Angels. But in typical fashion you are unschooled in recent history and your analysis of events limited to what you pick up in gossip and gossip in the mafia circles. It is not even a proper analysis if the tribal constellations. You are busy spamming every thread with the "results" of your Mother of All Stuffing (MOAS) as if anybody with a working brain cell (even those with dying baboon brain cells) is unaware of the Computer Generated Elections. You are threofge using these spam forms to try to cheat the gullible that there was an election and that the propaganda handed to you to spread and prepare the world for the pre-determined results was indeed real people voting.

It was those silly tribes that brought Moi to his knees. BTW Moi is a Kalenjin, is he not? None of his people came to his aide when we made Nairobi and other major cities ungovernable. He unleashed terror including detention without trial, disappearances, killings, forced exile etc - but failed. Uhuru lacks the balls to do the same and if he did, he would not last a week.

You said the same thing when CORD embarked on the programe to cut IEBC to size and make future theft harder to hide. You said without Kalenjin and Kikuyu, CORD cannot force your beloved government to it knees. Need I remind you that CORD did?

Your response was the typical subterfuge and denial - something that has become your trade mark over the years.

Let me go back to the main gist of my post and that is your time as the support tribe for the Kikuyu is up. They do not need you anymore because your demands would violate the whole goal and objective of Uthamaki. They have several options:

1. Renegotiate the Ruto deal for him to accept to be Eternal DP
2. Make a new deal with a new broker
3. Abrogate the deal with the Kalenjin and make a new deal with another tribal demagogue ready to sell his people like Ruto

Number 1. They could make a new deal - because Ruto has no options with which to threaten GEMA now. No alliances nothing. So they have him by the balls. Even if he agreed to a new deal making him eternal DP, his people may not follow him as dutifully as some of his tame dogs

Number two: GEMA has made a new deal with Charles Keter.  That means you can guess what they have done with the o0ld deal. Take it to the bank any time. It means he accepts to deliver the kalenjin vote in exchange for the position of DP

Number Three: It is possible if they can find the tribe. There three viable tribes: Luhya, Luo and Kamba plus. The problem with this one is that once they kick out the Kalenjin, they create the 2007 constellation against themselves. But the idea of having a new Moi terrifies Uthamaki.

It is called DENOUEMENT. It is coming Brother Pundit.

Some stupid things you have said:
Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017: That so called stability arose from the destruction of a democratic society to a despotism. Now if Uhuru is ready and willing to detain or kill Raila, Mudavadi, Kalonzo, Wetangula and all the "radical" MPs and senators; in addition to setting up a police state censoring newspapers, movement and everything, he might just pull it off.

Moi was beaten with purely peaceful means.

Remember though, at the time, Kenyans lacked the capacity to stage armed resistance. In Uganda they did as they did in Ethiopia and Zanzibar. The conditions that prevented that are largely absent. So he would most likely see an alliance between Al shabaab and some local coastal insurgents which would spread, initially strengthening his hand but ultimately weakening him.

You have overestimated the role of the Kalenjin in 2007. I can't blame you because you live for your tribe. There are gallant efforts that were contributed by many people in Kenya.
Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed: You are lucky to be so poor at history. Otherwise you would know how many people have uttered those words and ALL got it wrong. In addition they paid heavily for the same. Poor man. A version of Upende usipende was uttered by Shariff Nassir.


 

[Omollo]

It is Idiot Day today

Its inevitable that we'll have more devolution or federalism which is what most people have been advocating for. If its more devolution counties should keep a percentage of revenue derived from counties. After all even Ndii advocates for starving the beast (national government). Devolution started by setting up of district development funds then CDF , today counties. Future, more devolved funds and functions.

[Omollo]

I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.

It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition".  It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.

In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.

 

What is the legal path to secession?


I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?

[RV Pundit]

Bla - de- Bla - omollosque nonsense. Like you I told you TRACK RECORD matters. You track record here is a huge disaster.

Pundit

You time of reckoning is fast approaching. You will join those seeking self determination faster than Ruto will drop dead.

I have no idea what you think of your own people the Kalenjin - Gods or Angels. But in typical fashion you are unschooled in recent history and your analysis of events limited to what you pick up in gossip and gossip in the mafia circles. It is not even a proper analysis if the tribal constellations. You are busy spamming every thread with the "results" of your Mother of All Stuffing (MOAS) as if anybody with a working brain cell (even those with dying baboon brain cells) is unaware of the Computer Generated Elections. You are threofge using these spam forms to try to cheat the gullible that there was an election and that the propaganda handed to you to spread and prepare the world for the pre-determined results was indeed real people voting.

It was those silly tribes that brought Moi to his knees. BTW Moi is a Kalenjin, is he not? None of his people came to his aide when we made Nairobi and other major cities ungovernable. He unleashed terror including detention without trial, disappearances, killings, forced exile etc - but failed. Uhuru lacks the balls to do the same and if he did, he would not last a week.

You said the same thing when CORD embarked on the programe to cut IEBC to size and make future theft harder to hide. You said without Kalenjin and Kikuyu, CORD cannot force your beloved government to it knees. Need I remind you that CORD did?

Your response was the typical subterfuge and denial - something that has become your trade mark over the years.

Let me go back to the main gist of my post and that is your time as the support tribe for the Kikuyu is up. They do not need you anymore because your demands would violate the whole goal and objective of Uthamaki. They have several options:

1. Renegotiate the Ruto deal for him to accept to be Eternal DP
2. Make a new deal with a new broker
3. Abrogate the deal with the Kalenjin and make a new deal with another tribal demagogue ready to sell his people like Ruto

Number 1. They could make a new deal - because Ruto has no options with which to threaten GEMA now. No alliances nothing. So they have him by the balls. Even if he agreed to a new deal making him eternal DP, his people may not follow him as dutifully as some of his tame dogs

Number two: GEMA has made a new deal with Charles Keter.  That means you can guess what they have done with the o0ld deal. Take it to the bank any time. It means he accepts to deliver the kalenjin vote in exchange for the position of DP

Number Three: It is possible if they can find the tribe. There three viable tribes: Luhya, Luo and Kamba plus. The problem with this one is that once they kick out the Kalenjin, they create the 2007 constellation against themselves. But the idea of having a new Moi terrifies Uthamaki.

It is called DENOUEMENT. It is coming Brother Pundit.

Some stupid things you have said:
Kikuyu-Kalenjin have been together - circa 1968 -1992 - and now 2013 -2017: That so called stability arose from the destruction of a democratic society to a despotism. Now if Uhuru is ready and willing to detain or kill Raila, Mudavadi, Kalonzo, Wetangula and all the "radical" MPs and senators; in addition to setting up a police state censoring newspapers, movement and everything, he might just pull it off.

Moi was beaten with purely peaceful means.

Remember though, at the time, Kenyans lacked the capacity to stage armed resistance. In Uganda they did as they did in Ethiopia and Zanzibar. The conditions that prevented that are largely absent. So he would most likely see an alliance between Al shabaab and some local coastal insurgents which would spread, initially strengthening his hand but ultimately weakening him.

You have overestimated the role of the Kalenjin in 2007. I can't blame you because you live for your tribe. There are gallant efforts that were contributed by many people in Kenya.
Otherwise right now its look like Kikuyu-Kalenjin alliance will dominate the political space upende usipende. Any resistance will be crushed: You are lucky to be so poor at history. Otherwise you would know how many people have uttered those words and ALL got it wrong. In addition they paid heavily for the same. Poor man. A version of Upende usipende was uttered by Shariff Nassir.


 

[vooke]

I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.

It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition".  It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.

In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.

Who would you equate to Ndii in Jubilee?
I bet if they started singing secession tunes you would naturally conclude that was Jubilee's idea. That's all I said. And if the idea was totally repulsive and contrary to NASWA's ideals, they at least should ask him to stop, or distance themselves from it. Whatever Babu announced today is ambiguous and not stark opposite of secession.

Here I was talking not about secession but the usual rhetoric of how Kenya is 'divided' following every election, and thus in need of 'healing'.

My opinion on secession is it's even more disgusting to international community than mass action. This is a good academic discourse devoid of any practicality.

[Omollo]

I can't blame you: You are reduced to recycling propaganda handed to you. You can no longer sustain an argument.

I was not addressing you. My focus is on those who may swallow your propaganda believing you have some knowledge of Kenyan history. So feel free to add the Bla bla blas. That I can't contradict.

Bla - de- Bla - omollosque nonsense. Like you I told you TRACK RECORD matters. You track record here is a huge disaster.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

What is the legal path to secession?


I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?

There is none that I am aware of.  It might require a change of constitution.  The hard part about secession is that it needs international actors in the form of recognition.  Otherwise you end up with a Somaliland kind of situation.

[vooke]

What is the legal path to secession?


I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?

There is none that I am aware of.  It might require a change of constitution.  The hard part about secession is that it needs international actors in the form of recognition.  Otherwise you end up with a Somaliland kind of situation.

Thanks.
I edited my post and remarked that I doubt it'd have the blessing of the international community

[Omollo]

I understand it looks like that. However Ndii has on many occasions clearly and publicly sought to distinguish his personal views and the views of NASA / CORD. I assume it is his nature and as a scholar. He sees a disunion between the two.

Association aside, it is NOT a NASA position.

I understand your desire to link NASA to secession can not be overcome. But try to be objective and demand to know NASA position on the matter.

It seems to have started with that fool Empedocles posting the Ndii document as the "Raila Presidential Petition".  It is now catching on. It is a good thing for Ndii as no publicity is bad publicity. Sadly promoting it amounts to deliberate misleading. Note that today being Idiot Day, there are so many people swallowing all manner of falsehoods. I expect you not to help the spread of falsehoods. Raila and NASA do not support secession.

In fact Raila just launched a campaign to restore Electoral Justice in Kenya.

Who would you equate to Ndii in Jubilee?
I bet if they started singing secession tunes you would naturally conclude that was Jubilee's idea. That's all I said. And if the idea was totally repulsive and contrary to NASWA's ideals, they at least should ask him to stop, or distance themselves from it. Whatever Babu announced today is ambiguous and not stark opposite of secession.

Here I was talking not about secession but the usual rhetoric of how Kenya is 'divided' following every election, and thus in need of 'healing'.

My opinion on secession is it's even more disgusting to international community than mass action. This is a good academic discourse devoid of any practicality.

[Omollo]

The country is divided. You can't notice if you are GEMA or Kalenjin supporting Ruto.

Read the petition. It provides the answers to your question.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/877/524/634/kenyan/
I decided to help you out:

What is the legal path to secession?


I love how NASWA harps about a divided country. There will always be winners and losers in every election and the country is not divided between winners and losers. That's Babu's fantasy. Would he had been whining about a divided Kenya had he won in 2013 or now?