Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on February 28, 2017, 09:49:19 AM
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http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/Mobile-money-moves-Sh3-35trn-on-rising-phone-based-loans-uptake/539552-3830516-7mrs5n/index.html
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How do we invest ? My safari shares are still down
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$600 or Kshs. 6,000 is half of our minimum wage. Per annun this is Kshs. 72,000.
For the ‘well off’ urban poor it takes care of rent (a spacious double room @ Kshs. 4,000 p.m on the higher end in likes of Githurai, Pipeline, Kariobangi) and takes care of school fees for two kids.
For vulnerable urban poor in slums like Kibera, Korogocho, Majengo and the uncaptured peasants in the rural areas this amount means living large. It is enough for school fees, clothing and medicine for a family of up to six.
In an ideal situation, the universal basic income means the vulnerable population can be more entrepreneurial, take more risks given the assurance of having the basics covered and unlock the massive potential locked among these billion of masses.
If a couple gets this comes to Kshs. 144,000 p.a.; a sum equalling the minimum wage per household.
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This is income per person. The international poverty line is 2usd per day per person. That comes to 60 dollars a month. So one man family can meet his basic needs with 200shs per day. Typical kenyan family with 5 members requires kshs 30,000 to barely survive.
$600 or Kshs. 6,000 is half of our minimum wage. Per annun this is Kshs. 72,000.
For the ‘well off’ urban poor it takes care of rent (a spacious double room @ Kshs. 4,000 p.m on the higher end in likes of Githurai, Pipeline, Kariobangi) and takes care of school fees for two kids.
For vulnerable urban poor in slums like Kibera, Korogocho, Majengo and the uncaptured peasants in the rural areas this amount means living large. It is enough for school fees, clothing and medicine for a family of up to six.
In an ideal situation, the universal basic income means the vulnerable population can be more entrepreneurial, take more risks given the assurance of having the basics covered and unlock the massive potential locked among these billion of masses.
If a couple gets this comes to Kshs. 144,000 p.a.; a sum equalling the minimum wage per household.
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For vulnerable urban poor in slums like Kibera, Korogocho, Majengo and the uncaptured peasants in the rural areas this amount means living large. It is enough for school fees, clothing and medicine for a family of up to six.
Typical kenyan family with 5 members requires kshs 30,000 to barely survive
Living large in the slums doesn't seem to be an especially convincing sales line for an economic plan. Nor does bare survival. What is needed is a plan that will deliver much more.
$600 or Kshs. 6,000 is half of our minimum wage. Per annun this is Kshs. 72,000.
For the ‘well off’ urban poor it takes care of rent (a spacious double room @ Kshs. 4,000 p.m on the higher end in likes of Githurai, Pipeline, Kariobangi) and takes care of school fees for two kids.
Interesting figures. I'll skip questions about the quality of the accommodation, and, for simplicity, I'll assume a single person. After rent for his spacious apartment, he has Sh. 2000 left for the month. What are his costs for transportation, utilities, etc.? What can he afford to spend leisure? Etc.
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Android Pay, Samsung Pay , Apple pay and bitcoin will blow mpesa right out of the water. Mpesa is too "localised" for today's connected world.
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Android Pay, Samsung Pay , Apple pay and bitcoin will blow mpesa right out of the water. Mpesa is too "localised" for today's connected world.
MPESA looks great for countries with under-developed banking systems---of which there are many---and I don't see how these other systems would do much there. Besides, taking something like Samsung Pay, what real advantage is there in being able to "tap" with a phone instead of a much thinner piece of plastic?
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For me the advantage is in consolidation of all my expenses to the dedicated expense account regardless of location. It is quite pointless for me to register a simcard and an Mpesa account for the fortnight that I spend in Kenya every so often. I have to consciously run down the account before departure just in case some Kamiti person empties it whilst I am away.
I run android pay locally and a prepaid mastercard whilst traveling abroad, both are topped up/charged to a bitcoin wallet. All these are automated and Mpesa will be the last mile for me. A trusted relative holds a prepaid KSH denominated mastercard that I can transfer bitcoint into avoiding the transfer fees and exchange rates to a degree.
Mpesa is only good for local transactions... we all need to look outwards...
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For me the advantage is in consolidation of all my expenses to the dedicated expense account regardless of location. It is quite pointless for me to register a simcard and an Mpesa account for the fortnight that I spend in Kenya every so often. I have to consciously run down the account before departure just in case some Kamiti person empties it whilst I am away.
But, surely, you can do all that with one plastic card.
I run android pay locally and a prepaid mastercard whilst traveling abroad, both are topped up/charged to a bitcoin wallet. All these are automated and Mpesa will be the last mile for me. A trusted relative holds a prepaid KSH denominated mastercard that I can transfer bitcoint into avoiding the transfer fees and exchange rates to a degree.
I assume "locally" is where you are, not Kenya. What's the special advantage there of Android Pay?
Yes, to a degree; I'm not sure that exchange rates can be completely avoided with electronic transactions. My way of dealing with exchange rates is to regularly monitor them and buy (and stock) currency when the rates are in my favour.
I don't see how having a trusted relative hold a prepaid card for you is helps with the argument that Android pay and Bitcoin are especially useful. More details, please.
(I have never tried Bitcoin, and, after that Mt. Gox business, I won't until accounts come with hefty insurance.)
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The winner will be payment platform that is as ubiquitous as cash. M-pesa is the nearest you've got at least in Kenya. Plastic cards or Android pay do not work everywhere including in UK or USA. People still have to carry cash. M-pesa I think it just few years from replacing the need to have cash at least in Kenya.
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The apple pay, paypal and the rest are just electronic credit cards as in they are connected to either debit or credit card. Mpesa is standalone platform that at least in Kenya one can operate without cash. A merchant has to wait for at least 24hrs for payment to be deposited while Mpesa Lipa na Mpesa its instant. And not to mention merchant fee for credit cards is at least 3% while Mpesa 1%. This are some of the advantages of Mpesa.
Bitcoin or a distributed ledger type system I suspect might do well in ERP systems. Exporters of produce in kenya can get their suppliers to key in data at every stage of production (from chemicals and fertilizer used) that would help in traceability EU regulations, as an example.
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The winner will be payment platform that is as ubiquitous as cash. M-pesa is the nearest you've got at least in Kenya. Plastic cards or Android pay do not work everywhere including in UK or USA. People still have to carry cash. M-pesa I think it just few years from replacing the need to have cash at least in Kenya.
There doesn't seem to be much to support that view. This is from last year:
Despite the 87 per cent mobile penetration in Kenya and the widely acclaimed use of M-Pesa across major sectors of the economy, cash is still the main means of transactions, according to the latest survey.
Business people made 95 per cent of their transactions in cash while a similar percentage of casual labourers received payments in cash, the Finaccess survey shows.
Agriculture which comprises over 30 per cent of household incomes nationally had 93 per cent of transactions done in cash in the period under review.
http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/smartcompany/Most-Kenyans-still-use-cash-to-transact-Survey/-/1226/3088980/-/view/printVersion/-/k48kxw/-/index.html
Compare that with this:
Welcome to Sweden - the most cash-free society on the planet
Four out of five purchases are now made electronically in Sweden.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/11/welcome-sweden-electronic-money-not-so-funny
Or this:
Canadians use cash for only 10% of consumer payments and that figure is falling
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/economy/canada-is-ready-for-the-end-of-cash/
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Those % may not tell the whole story. Lipa na M-pesa once it become accepted by everyone - we will see the start of cashless society in kenya. Personally I use lipa na m-pesa for most transactions but have to keep some little cash for some few places that don't accept it. It would be interesting to see the growth of lipa na m-pesa...I have seen figures of 30% year on year...I can bet in 10yrs time...this may become the default payment.
The winner will be payment platform that is as ubiquitous as cash. M-pesa is the nearest you've got at least in Kenya. Plastic cards or Android pay do not work everywhere including in UK or USA. People still have to carry cash. M-pesa I think it just few years from replacing the need to have cash at least in Kenya.
There doesn't seem to be much to support that view. This is from last year:
Despite the 87 per cent mobile penetration in Kenya and the widely acclaimed use of M-Pesa across major sectors of the economy, cash is still the main means of transactions, according to the latest survey.
Business people made 95 per cent of their transactions in cash while a similar percentage of casual labourers received payments in cash, the Finaccess survey shows.
Agriculture which comprises over 30 per cent of household incomes nationally had 93 per cent of transactions done in cash in the period under review.
http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/smartcompany/Most-Kenyans-still-use-cash-to-transact-Survey/-/1226/3088980/-/view/printVersion/-/k48kxw/-/index.html
Compare that with this:
Welcome to Sweden - the most cash-free society on the planet
Four out of five purchases are now made electronically in Sweden.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/11/welcome-sweden-electronic-money-not-so-funny
Or this:
Canadians use cash for only 10% of consumer payments and that figure is falling
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/economy/canada-is-ready-for-the-end-of-cash/
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Android pay and the tap and pay wireless debit card tap and pay system is convenient and fast. Crucially, all transactions are recorded including small change sandwich buys etc.
I can confidently say that my expenditure is 98% cashless. I have more Kenyan shillings and dollars at home than I have Sterling.
The advantage of the prepaid mastercard especially the one I travel with is that I can define multiple currencies (normally local to the country I am traveling to) and pay using local rates. The main exchange rate will be the prevailing bitcoin exchange rate. When I get back I just switch back to bit coin and wait for the next trip and do the same again.
The tap and pay contactless payments facilitated by android pay and now mastercard etc is that it negates the minimum transaction requirement, and authorisation is almost instant. I now do not need to carry change for incidentals, not even car parking.
Generally speaking Bitcoin is my unoiversal currency and I switch to whatever currency as I please. Also, due to the Mt Gox issues, I have a hardware bitcoin wallet (as USB dongle really) that is not connected to the internet, and only transfer out enough bitcoin as needed. It is akin to keeping my bitcoins chini ya mattress.
MPesa, although a novel idea, is much too localised in Kenya for my liking. Besides, the price increase in bitcoin has made it the best performing currency of 2016. I wonder what interest if any Safcom pay to Mpesa account holders, last I heard they were hoarding 5 bob from everyone...
For me the advantage is in consolidation of all my expenses to the dedicated expense account regardless of location. It is quite pointless for me to register a simcard and an Mpesa account for the fortnight that I spend in Kenya every so often. I have to consciously run down the account before departure just in case some Kamiti person empties it whilst I am away.
But, surely, you can do all that with one plastic card.
I run android pay locally and a prepaid mastercard whilst traveling abroad, both are topped up/charged to a bitcoin wallet. All these are automated and Mpesa will be the last mile for me. A trusted relative holds a prepaid KSH denominated mastercard that I can transfer bitcoint into avoiding the transfer fees and exchange rates to a degree.
I assume "locally" is where you are, not Kenya. What's the special advantage there of Android Pay?
Yes, to a degree; I'm not sure that exchange rates can be completely avoided with electronic transactions. My way of dealing with exchange rates is to regularly monitor them and buy (and stock) currency when the rates are in my favour.
I don't see how having a trusted relative hold a prepaid card for you is helps with the argument that Android pay and Bitcoin are especially useful. More details, please.
(I have never tried Bitcoin, and, after that Mt. Gox business, I won't until accounts come with hefty insurance.)
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Android pay and the tap and pay wireless debit card tap and pay system is convenient and fast. Crucially, all transactions are recorded including small change sandwich buys etc.
I can confidently say that my expenditure is 98% cashless. I have more Kenyan shillings and dollars at home than I have Sterling.
Mine too is close to that. But it doesn't require Android Pay, Samsung Pay, or any other kind of Pay. In almost all places, a debit card will do. That's why I don't understand your complicated system of this-and-that-Pay, Mastercard, and Bitcoin thrown in for good measure. Seems unnecessarily complicated.
The advantage of the prepaid mastercard especially the one I travel with is that I can define multiple currencies (normally local to the country I am traveling to) and pay using local rates. The main exchange rate will be the prevailing bitcoin exchange rate. When I get back I just switch back to bit coin and wait for the next trip and do the same again.
I'm not convinced that there is necessarily a benefit there. Let's say you buy your prepaid thing or bitcoin thing at a rate of US$1 = KSH 100. At the time you arrive in Nyalunga, the rate is US$1 = KSH 120. Would you have been better off just carrying dollars in your pocket? The fact that the prepaid is in the local currency and that things are paid for in the local currency does not make one immune to the vagaries of exchange rates. Am I missing something here?
The tap and pay contactless payments facilitated by android pay and now mastercard etc is that it negates the minimum transaction requirement, and authorisation is almost instant. I now do not need to carry change for incidentals, not even car parking.
I don't understand why you are so focused on Android Pay and Mastercard when it comes to tap-and-pay contactless (or with contact) payment. What so special bout them? Almost all places with a good banking system have tap-and-pay for just about any kind of card, and cards don't come more basic than the good, old-fashioned debit card.
I also don't understand this "minimum transaction requirement"". Retailers are free to impose whatever they like, but I don't see it as something to do with the card itself.
Generally speaking Bitcoin is my universal currency and I switch to whatever currency as I please.
Fair enough. But are you sure that somebody is not taking a slice (however small) off the top when you switch currencies? And are you sure that you are really ahead of those who rely on more traditional methods for currency changes?
MPesa, although a novel idea, is much too localised in Kenya for my liking.
True. But it looks great for Kenya and places with similar banking systems. (RV Pundit is quite right---MPESA has been fantastic in Kenya---although he over-estimates its worth and confuses the convenience of easy money transfers with the need for solutions to more fundamental problems.)
Besides, the price increase in bitcoin has made it the best performing currency of 2016.
Looks like it. And how much of the world's currency is in bitcoins? The world is full of money-hungry people. How many are rushing into "the best performing currency"?
To my mind, the best thing---and probably the only thing of real lasting value---of bitcoins is the idea of "crypto-currency". That will be taken up by many others, but my guess is that Bitcoin is too "damaged" for that (Mt. Gox).
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New York
Kenya's extensive mobile-money network can be used by both domestic and international criminal operations to make illicit financial transactions, the US State Department warned on Thursday.
The department's latest annual report on money laundering worldwide describes Kenya as the financial hub of East Africa and “at the forefront of mobile banking.”
About 159,000 mobile-money agents do business in Kenya, mostly through Safaricom's M-Pesa system, the report notes.
It adds that M-Shwari, Safaricom's online banking service, includes more than 10 million accounts.
“These services remain vulnerable to money laundering activities,” the report declares.
Global standards
The Safaricom director for corporate affairs, Stephen Chege, however said in a response that M-Pesa is in compliance with “stringent global financial services standards for Anti-Money Laundering.”
“Safaricom is subject to Central Bank oversight. We are a reporting institution under the Proceeds of Crime and Money Laundering (Amendment) Act, 2012 and we file our reports with the Financial Reporting Centre in Kenya,” said Mr Chege.
The US cites difficulties in tracking and investigating suspicious transactions within Kenya's mobile payment and banking systems.
The report offers the example of criminals being potentially able to use illicit funds to purchase mobile credits at amounts below reporting thresholds.
Safaricom, however, said every customer using M-Pesa is required to register and each transaction into and out of M-Pesa can be tracked and traced via an individual transaction number.
“This provides a comprehensive transaction history, enabling us to alert the authorities to any wrongdoing as soon as it comes to light and provide them with a detailed audit trail,” said Mr Chege.
The 203-page global survey by the State Department's Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs also points in its Kenya section to a “lack of rigorous enforcement in this sector, coupled with inadequate reporting” on the part of entities that go unnamed in the report.
Confidentiality protection
Another weakness, the report adds, is the poor protection of confidentiality in the process of obtaining court orders allowing police to demand bank records or seize accounts.
Investigators are required to present judges with evidence linking deposits to criminal violations.
But because “the confidentiality of this process is not well maintained,” account holders can be tipped off to police activity and thus enabled to move their assets or contest court orders, the report says.
Money laundering in Kenya also takes place through “thriving unregulated networks of hawalas and other unlicensed remittance systems,” the US adds.
These operations “lack transparency and facilitate cash-based, unreported transfers that the government cannot track,” according to the report.
The Kenyan government has made “some progress” in fulfilling commitments it made in 2015 to strengthen its anti-money-laundering regime, the State Department finds.
Officials pledged then to work with international partners to carry out a risk assessment for money laundering and to facilitate Kenya's full implementation of its rules and regulations.
The government also said it would work toward membership of the Egmont Group, a network comprised of 152 national financial intelligence units. Kenya has not yet met the requirements for joining the group.
Safaricom shouldn't just vehemently deny the allegations. Sonko bragged about it: Almost a quarter of Safaricom’s billions of profits can be traced to me- Senator Mike Sonko (http://www.sde.co.ke/article/2000161623/almost-a-quarter-of-safaricom-s-billions-of-profits-can-be-traced-to-me-senator-mike-sonko)
Ok, maybe not a quarter. :)
KRA customs uses mpesa to receive bribes. They give, depending on the amount agreed upon, different numbers where the bribe can be sent in batches. These guys own tons of number, each "properly" registered with a different name.
Anyone remember this, from the police vetting: Police officer’s Sh35m M-Pesa transfers a year (http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/539546-3220328-k1jx37/index.html). The guy earns a KShs.45k monthly salary.