Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on July 25, 2016, 01:01:53 PM
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They are raking billions from gambling craze in kenya. All these thanks to m-pesa.
http://www.hullcitytigers.com/news/article/2016-17/tigers-announce-new-official-sponsor-3204398.aspx
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is gambling money taxed, what rates?
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I think they tax the winnings. They should consider taxing the every transaction.
is gambling money taxed, what rates?
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The poor will now finance elite football in a former colonial power. I am fighting to get CORD to commit to ending gambling especially of the mass type
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Maybe they are targeting to go global - which will be good for the country. Kenyan companies need to think beyond our borders. If the idea is to roll this out (regulatory obstacle notwistanding) in many countries with m-pesa; then this good idea.
Clearly there is something SportPesa are gaining here. Unless they are fools.
The kind of money these guys are swimming in make it impossible to ban them now. They can literally buy out anybody.
Treasury have a problem taxing poor people with money to waste - and here is where they need to focus - milk sportpesa billions - and invest the money back in the country.
The poor will now finance elite football in a former colonial power. I am fighting to get CORD to commit to ending gambling especially of the mass type
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This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.
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Maybe they are targeting to go global - which will be good for the country. Kenyan companies need to think beyond our borders. If the idea is to roll this out (regulatory obstacle notwistanding) in many countries with m-pesa; then this good idea.
Clearly there is something SportPesa are gaining here. Unless they are fools.
The kind of money these guys are swimming in make it impossible to ban them now. They can literally buy out anybody.
Treasury have a problem taxing poor people with money to waste - and here is where they need to focus - milk sportpesa billions - and invest the money back in the country.
How's this even remotely good?
Betting and gambling have never created wealth. What they do is transfer capital from the general population to a very few elite, which now in Sportpesa's case is being sent overseas as sponsorship to an English team. So thousands in Kenya lose their shirts, Sportpesa gives a bit of the money to Hullcity, Sportspesa (hopefully) gets more gamblers to lose so they transfer much more money to themselves. You're watching capital in a poor country being destroyed.
Milking Sportspesa via taxes is useless, the damage has already being done (that's even before the taxes are stolen). I'm sure you're aware of the thousands of poor gullible wanainchi who've squandered millions betting everything they have on a chance of having a better life (Sports betting craze leaves trail of broken families, agony (http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Sports-betting-craze-leaving-trail-of-broken-families/-/1056/3199760/-/6aw62sz/-/index.html)). Over 90% of gamblers lose. Might as well legalize DECI etc.
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Precisely.
This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.
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Gambling is cornerstone of some economies including Lax Vegas, Macau and others. British betting companies are here in Kenya. The thing with gambling is to regulate it. Ensure the winnings are taxed heavily and also the profit are invested in social goods. SportPesa should not be allowed to take all the milk - just the cream. So far SportPesa have sponsored several kenya sports in millions of shs deal - that right there is problem of sport financing solved.
Gambling, alcohol and cigarretes are necessary evil and gov can make a tidy sum coz people are going to drink/smoke/gamble whether you like it or not.
Heavily regulate. Tax every gamble. Tax every win. Force company to invest the profit in social good.
How's this even remotely good?
Betting and gambling have never created wealth. What they do is transfer capital from the general population to a very few elite, which now in Sportpesa's case is being sent overseas as sponsorship to an English team. So thousands in Kenya lose their shirts, Sportpesa gives a bit of the money to Hullcity, Sportspesa (hopefully) gets more gamblers to lose so they transfer much more money to themselves. You're watching capital in a poor country being destroyed.
Milking Sportspesa via taxes is useless, the damage has already being done (that's even before the taxes are stolen). I'm sure you're aware of the thousands of poor gullible wanainchi who've squandered millions betting everything they have on a chance of having a better life (Sports betting craze leaves trail of broken families, agony (http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Sports-betting-craze-leaving-trail-of-broken-families/-/1056/3199760/-/6aw62sz/-/index.html)). Over 90% of gamblers lose. Might as well legalize DECI etc.
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(http://i.imgur.com/Prn427E.jpg)
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The idea that this sort of gambling is good for Kenya because "just look at Las Vegas and Macau!" is an interesting one. Setting aside the fact that these are small places and they get their gamblers from all the place, as far as I can tell, most of the people gambling there have enough disposable income that they can indulge themselves once in a while. Is that true for the gamblers in Kenya, or are they just desperate people?
Likewise, how SportPesa's "going global" is good for the country is a mystery. Even if the idea is that they will be taxed heavily---and that isn't happening----it should not be assumed that these global operations have (or would have) arrangements that make overseas earnings taxable in Kenya.
And is there actually money to be made right there anyway? Will British gamblers throw away their money at SportPesa"? I can't imagine why they would do that; after all, the football teams are European, and the punters have numerous other opportunities to lose their money (and to their compatriots).
Still, this is a smart move on the company's part: things will be much easier to sell in Kenya when the local manambas see wazungus in a leading European football league wearing "SportPesa uniforms" and saying good things about it.
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This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.
Why is it that M-Pesa has so far not made much headway in the rest of Africa? Why and how would the opportunity to gamble-by-remote change that?
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This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.
Why is it that M-Pesa has so far not made much headway in the rest of Africa? Why and how would the opportunity to gamble-by-remote change that?
Tanzania Vodacom money which is essentially Mpesa has over 4m users, Uganda airtel money has well over 15m users, so mobile money is growing especially in countries where the regulators have given telecoms the greenlight instead of banks(Its one of the reason Nigeria mobile money isn't doing well). Africans are addicted to Premier league providing entertainment,a chance to bet on the games they're already watching will lead to them signing up for mobile money which obviously benefit sportspesa. Mind you gambling fees are the biggest driver of Mpesa revenue for safaricom. I am sure airtel money or vodacom TZ will be salivating to get a cut of the action.
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Tanzania Vodacom money which is essentially Mpesa has over 4m users, Uganda airtel money has well over 15m users, so mobile money is growing especially in countries where the regulators have given telecoms the greenlight instead of banks(Its one of the reason Nigeria mobile money isn't doing well).
Take another look at my first question. How many countries in Africa? In how many of those is M-PESA "growing especially"? If the regulators are the problem---and I don't believe that's all of it---how would mindless gambling change that? Would it not be the case that one would have to consider regulations on gambling and regulations (and other factors) that already limit M-PESA?
Empedocles is absolutely right: this is just another "brilliant" scheme in which those at the top will get even more from those at the lowest levels.
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Tanzania Vodacom money which is essentially Mpesa has over 4m users, Uganda airtel money has well over 15m users, so mobile money is growing especially in countries where the regulators have given telecoms the greenlight instead of banks(Its one of the reason Nigeria mobile money isn't doing well).
Take another look at my first question. How many countries in Africa? In how many of those is M-PESA "growing especially"? If the regulators are the problem---and I don't believe that's all all it---how would mindless gambling change that? Would it not be the case that one would have to consider regulations on gambling and regulations (and other factors) that already limit M-PESA?
First of all Mpesa owned by Vodafone can only be only be in the following countries http://www.vodafone.com/business/global-enterprise/africa . There's no denying that sportpesa is doing well cause of the easy of collecting money via Mpesa(mobile Money). Anywhere in africa that people watch football and there's mobile money Sportpesa can operate. Gambling is value added service on top of the core mobile money services. As such the more things you can do with mobile money the more appealing that service become hence driving uptake for both mobile money and the entertainment in form gambling.
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First of all Mpesa owned by Vodafone can only be only be in the following countries http://www.vodafone.com/business/global-enterprise/africa.
I don't absolutely know what you mean by (a) "can" and (b) "countries"; I will go by the standard meanings. In the link you provided, here is what I can see:
"We established a hub in South Africa in 2009 and have expanded into Kenya, Egypt, Mozambique, Tanzania and Ghana."
I think it is dead in S. Africa, but never mind. If it can be in only those countries, then how and where do the other countries come in??
There's no denying that sportpesa is doing well cause of the easy of collecting money via Mpesa(mobile Money). Anywhere in africa that people watch football and there's mobile money Sportpesa can operate. Gambling is value added service on top of the core mobile money services. As such the more things you can do with mobile money the more appealing that service become hence driving uptake for both mobile money and the entertainment in form gambling.
Slow down there, friend. Where is it doing well? You also say that "Anywhere in africa that people watch football and there's mobile money Sportpesa can operate", but your own list gives only 5 (or 6 countries in Africa). And how many countries are in Africa?
So, let me ask again:
(1) Why M-PESA not made much headway in the rest of Africa?
(2) How would sports gambling make a difference?
I'd look at the first before the second. As for the notion that "gambling is value added service", I'd be very worried about anyone who believes that, but here our main concern is actually (1). So how about we do that first. (My reasoning here is that if, say, the most basic regulations won't allow M-PESA into the place, then inviting people to lose their money doesn't seem to be the best "work-around".)
After that, we can look at "anywhere in africa that people watch football". Many of us here watch all sorts of sports? Does it necessarily mean that we gamble on them? And if we don't, is it solely because we don't have the opportunity and means to do so?
It is, course, possible that there are all sorts of suckers out there that are "amenable" to SportPesa. But such people are already being fleeced where they are, and, beyond regulatory and other complications, I don't see what *-Pesa has to offer them.
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Mpesa is owned by vodafone only operates in the countries that vodafone owns part of the telecom. So Mpesa can't be in Nigeria because Vodafone doesn't own any telco there. The point is it doesn't need be Mpesa it can be airtel money, MTN money etc and Sportpesa can setup base in any of those countries that have Mobile money. Because their business is based on collecting bets via mobile money. Kenya is the only country that Vodafone has a dominant market share in the six countries it operates apart from SA. South africa is a modern economy where traditional banking is entrenched so Mpesa didn't do well. Gambling whether bad or good is a form of entertainment some people like it (ladbrokes does over $15b annual) some people don't. But its clear a section of a population in any country will indulge in it and the easier it is to bet the more people participate. People who want to bet will be inclined to sign up for mobile money irrespective which type of mobile money if one can only gamble using mobile money. Thus driving uptake in mobile money.
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Arguing for arguing sake.SportPesa knows what they're doing. Gok and regulatory bodies just need to catch up and make sure they are paying taxes. Otherwise whatever strategy SportPesa are pursuing I am sure they've thought thro this. They won't be making 800M per day or month if they were damn fools.
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Arguing for arguing sake.SportPesa knows what they're doing. Gok and regulatory bodies just need to catch up and make sure they are paying taxes. Otherwise whatever strategy SportPesa are pursuing I am sure they've thought thro this. They won't be making 800M per day or month if they were damn fools.
Amen to that!! Bottomline there wouldnt be Sportpesa without Mpesa.
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Exactly. M-pesa revolution when it finally acknowledged will be huge. But here you're dealing with people who dismiss M-pesa severally because it couldn't fly in South Africa or their adopted country. That is suppose to make M-pesa less great.
Amen to that!! Bottomline there wouldnt be Sportpesa without Mpesa.
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The point is it doesn't need be Mpesa it can be airtel money, MTN money etc and Sportpesa can setup base in any of those countries that have Mobile money.
My question had to do with the regulatory structures in those countries. And you can see part of the point here:
South africa is a modern economy where traditional banking is entrenched so Mpesa didn't do well.
What about all those other poor African countries?
People who want to bet will be inclined to sign up for mobile money irrespective which type of mobile money if one can only gamble using mobile money. Thus driving uptake in mobile money.
Perhaps. To have a better idea, we'd need to know how such gambling has driven the uptake in mobile money. Do you have some data for Kenya?
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Arguing for arguing sake.SportPesa knows what they're doing. Gok and regulatory bodies just need to catch up and make sure they are paying taxes. Otherwise whatever strategy SportPesa are pursuing I am sure they've thought thro this. They won't be making 800M per day or month if they were damn fools.
Those guys definitely know what they are doing, and I'm sure they are making lots of money, as do many who run gambling schemes. No doubt about that. But there are plenty of "damn fools" involved in the business, which is how the money is being made.
Anyways ... my questions had to do with this dream of SportPesa expanding all over Africa etc: Is it possible? If it is, how will it benefit Kenyans?
SportPesa will make money out of this sponsorship. No doubt about that. But from whom?
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The gov job is to protect the fools - by regulating SportPesa - and forcing them to spend extra money on supporting charities/sports - and of course taxing them heavily - I think the winnings are being taxed at nearly 50%.As for SportPesa - a Kenyan company - going global - this is great news -- the details are rather too obvious - it akin to asking why Equity or Kenol have gone all the way to Congo or Zimbwabwe - at end of the day - the profit will be taxed in kenya and probably invested here - more employments of kenyan - name it.
Even the fact that Kenyan company can sponsor UK football club is free marketting for the country as serious place to invest & do business.The trailblazing sportpesa is the reason many UK betting company are setting shops here....
Do we always have to go through these nursery like queries?
Those guys definitely know what they are doing, and I'm sure they are making lots of money, as do many who run gambling schemes. No doubt about that. But there are plenty of "damn fools" involved in the business, which is how the money is being made.
Anyways ... my questions had to do with this dream of SportPesa expanding all over Africa etc: Is it possible? If it is, how will it benefit Kenyans?
SportPesa will make money out of this sponsorship. No doubt about that. But from whom?
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As for SportPesa - a Kenyan company - going global - this is great news -- the details are rather too obvious - it akin to asking why Equity or Kenol have gone all the way to Congo or Zimbwabwe
If Equity and Kenol are out there, then I can think of obvious ways in which they are making money there. But I have difficulties seeing how SportPesa's sponsorship of HullCity is going to make it money other than from the punters in Kenya ... same people getting screwed. Please indulge me and explain.
- at end of the day - the profit will be taxed in kenya and probably invested here - more employments of kenyan - name it.
Actually, outfits like SportPesa don't do much for employment figures.
Even the fact that Kenyan company can sponsor UK football club is free marketting for the country as serious place to invest & do business.The trailblazing sportpesa is the reason many UK betting company are setting shops here....
Many UK betting companies are setting up shop in Kenya? I didn't know that. Can you provide a list of the "many"? And all because of SportPesa? I didn't know that either, but once we have your list we can look into the details.
Do we always have to go through these nursery like queries?
It appears that we have to.
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The point is it doesn't need be Mpesa it can be airtel money, MTN money etc and Sportpesa can setup base in any of those countries that have Mobile money.
My question had to do with the regulatory structures in those countries. And you can see part of the point here:
South africa is a modern economy where traditional banking is entrenched so Mpesa didn't do well.
What about all those other poor African countries?
People who want to bet will be inclined to sign up for mobile money irrespective which type of mobile money if one can only gamble using mobile money. Thus driving uptake in mobile money.
Perhaps. To have a better idea, we'd need to know how such gambling has driven the uptake in mobile money. Do you have some data for Kenya?
We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa. Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on. This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.
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We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa. Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on. This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.
Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles. Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small. Forget South Africa. Just take the red above. With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
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We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa. Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on. This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.
Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles. Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small. Forget South Africa. Just take the red above. With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
it Doesn't have to be Mpesa it just needs to be mobile money. Sportpesa accepts airtel money and orange money. Any country where there's significant mobile money users sportpesa can setup there. Ghana has 15m for example, uganda 18m . Clearly the link I gave you above shows what gambling has done to mpesa usage. There's nowhere in africa and probably the world that we have a beting company that only collects bets via mobile money. So kenya in this field we're clearly the leaders . As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries.
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We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa. Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on. This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.
Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles. Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small. Forget South Africa. Just take the red above. With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
it Doesn't have to be Mpesa it just needs to be mobile money. Sportpesa accepts airtel money and orange money. Any country where there's significant mobile money users sportpesa can setup there. Ghana has 15m for example, uganda 18m . Clearly the link I gave you above shows what gambling has done to mpesa usage. There's nowhere in africa and probably the world that we have a beting company that only collects bets via mobile money. So kenya in this field we're clearly the leaders . As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries.
As I indicated, I'd like to take it small-small. So, for now, let's leave gambling out of it. We'll get there, but first I'd like an answer red. After that' we'll look at the "why". And so on ... This will also help us with the extrapolations in blue.
So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
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We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa. Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on. This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.
Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles. Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small. Forget South Africa. Just take the red above. With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
it Doesn't have to be Mpesa it just needs to be mobile money. Sportpesa accepts airtel money and orange money. Any country where there's significant mobile money users sportpesa can setup there. Ghana has 15m for example, uganda 18m . Clearly the link I gave you above shows what gambling has done to mpesa usage. There's nowhere in africa and probably the world that we have a beting company that only collects bets via mobile money. So kenya in this field we're clearly the leaders . As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries.
As I indicated, I'd like to take it small-small. So, for now, let's leave gambling out of it. We'll get there, but first I'd like an answer red. After that' we'll look at the "why". And so on ... This will also help us with the extrapolations in blue.
So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
So now you want to know why Mobile money has been successful in kenya?
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So now you want to know why Mobile money has been successful in kenya?
Here is my question:
So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
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So now you want to know why Mobile money has been successful in kenya?
Here is my question:
So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?
I answered that already Mpesa is owned by vodafone and vodafone operates in 6 countries which include SA and Egypt. In the countries that vodafone operate its only kenya and SA that its dominant operator. Mpesa in those countries might not be doing as well as in kenya but mobile money as a sector is growing. Take Zambia for example, MTN zambia is the dominant operator vadacom money(mpesa) is smaller. The sector is growing and really there's not much of difference between mobile money that are text based. In kenya its where we've fully inter-grated Mpesa with regular banking and also payment of utility bills. A case of first mover advantage is cellulant, which is the company that connected banks with Mpesa and utility billing system with Mpesa from dstv to kplc. Cellulant parlayed that experience to setup base in Nigeria and now they derive more income from West Africa than kenya.
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I answered that already Mpesa is owned by vodafone and vodafone operates in 6 countries which include SA and Egypt. In the countries that vodafone operate its only kenya and SA that its dominant operator. Mpesa in those countries might not be doing as well as in kenya but mobile money as a sector is growing. Take Zambia for example, MTN zambia is the dominant operator vadacom money(mpesa) is smaller. The sector is growing and really there's not much of difference between mobile money that are text based. In kenya its where we've fully inter-grated Mpesa with regular banking and also payment of utility bills. A case of first mover advantage is cellulant, which is the company that connected banks with Mpesa and utility billing system with Mpesa from dstv to kplc. Cellulant parlayed that experience to setup base in Nigeria and now they derive more income from West Africa than kenya.
If I understand you correctly, then, even with "first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc., M-PESA is limited to just 5 countries (excluding SA, where it is pretty much dead). Is that correct? If so, then why get excited about ""first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc.?
One reason I ask is a statement like this from you:
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.
See if you can relate the red to the limitations above.
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I answered that already Mpesa is owned by vodafone and vodafone operates in 6 countries which include SA and Egypt. In the countries that vodafone operate its only kenya and SA that its dominant operator. Mpesa in those countries might not be doing as well as in kenya but mobile money as a sector is growing. Take Zambia for example, MTN zambia is the dominant operator vadacom money(mpesa) is smaller. The sector is growing and really there's not much of difference between mobile money that are text based. In kenya its where we've fully inter-grated Mpesa with regular banking and also payment of utility bills. A case of first mover advantage is cellulant, which is the company that connected banks with Mpesa and utility billing system with Mpesa from dstv to kplc. Cellulant parlayed that experience to setup base in Nigeria and now they derive more income from West Africa than kenya.
If I understand you correctly, then, even with "first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc., M-PESA is limited to just 5 countries (excluding SA, where it is pretty much dead). Is that correct? If so, then why get excited about ""first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc.?
One reason I ask is a statement like this from you:
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.
See if you can relate the red to the limitations above.
I give up!! Mpesa can only be in those countries that vodafone has operation or part owner of the local mobile telco. there's little difference between Mpesa and airtel money, both are structured text(sms) encrypted based that notify and liquidate the sms via either agent or banks. Do you understand that??? Kenya is where mobile money took off and I have given example of the likes of cellulant. Even Sportpesa,Mcheza or betin are in kenya because of mobile money and now those companies are expanding to the rest of africa. That is first mover advantage. There's nowhere in the world that there's a betting company that solely operate by collecting bets via mobile phone except kenya.
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I give up!! Mpesa can only be in those countries that vodafone has operation or part owner of the local mobile telco.
OK. I think I understand you. So when you say that "Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country", the rest of Africa is really just a reference to 5 countries. Right?
there's little difference between Mpesa and airtel money, both are structured text(sms) encrypted based that notify and liquidate the sms via either agent or banks. Do you understand that???
Yes, I think I understand that. I focused on M-PESA because of your statement your statement above: "just because M-PESA ...".
Even Sportpesa,Mcheza or betin are in kenya because of mobile money and now those companies are expanding to the rest of africa. That is first mover advantage.
Yes, but an advantage for whom? Betin, for example, is just part of the Goldbet group, which certainly appears to be expanding all over. I don't quite see why Kenyans should derive any joy from such expansion.
Your earlier statements were that "on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage" and "As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries". So what I wanted to know was the "first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters" story with respect to Kenya and what is to be (or is being exported).
Even with M-PESA, it appears that it is Vodafone/Vodacom that is doing the expansion, not the "first movers"/"earliest adopters" of Kenya.
Vodafone owns the M-Pesa concept and has introduced it in eight countries including Kenya, India, Tanzania, and South Africa.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Vodafone-takes-home-Sh2-3bn-of-M-Pesa-revenue/-/539550/1852810/-/m9igv0/-/index.html
Why do Kenyans get so excited whenever they see "M-PESA" elsewhere in the world?
There's nowhere in the world that there's a betting company that solely operate by collect bets via mobile phone.
I'm afraid I don't see the significance of the "solely". In fact, I suspect that a company that collects money by numerous means (including mobile phone) would have an advantage over one that collected them solely through mobile phones. Can you explain the particular advantages of the "solely"?
By the way, earlier you wrote that:
Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations.
I took a look, and there appears to be plenty of sports betting in Ghana. Perhaps SportPesa could be join the 15 or so companies already engaged in that there. I took a look at some of them, and they will take mobile money (e.g. MTN). Here's my question: What does "first mover"/"early adopter" do for M-PESA or SportPesa in such a context. In particular, why do you believe that ""Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country"? (Note the emphasis) And note that any expansion of M-PESA anything is Vodafone, not Kenya, doing the exporting.
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Ok now why are you focusing so much on Mpesa instead of mobile money that are similar to Mpesa? I gave you an example of cellulant http://www.cellulant.com/ that started in kenya and now has expanded to West Africa and southern africa isn't that an example of a company that expanded to rest of africa just like now sportpesa is trying to do?. The reason I focused on Mpesa is because it was the first successful mobile money in africa and all other mobile money are similar to Mpesa.
How does kenya benefit from sportspesa as it expands to the rest of the continent? I think rvpundit answered you on that. In addition Mpesa is now interconnected with MTN http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/media/vodafone-group-releases/2015/m-pesa-mtn.html meaning sportpesa can collect bets from all of MTN money customers africa from right here in Nairobi. That means there will be loads of money coming to kenya, Imagine what that will do to kenya shilling and on reserves for example.
The way you argue its like someone in the late 90s and early 2000s arguing that if AOL is a leader how come its not expanding to the rest of the world to provide internet. unbeknown to him the real juggernauts comes after the infrastructure is laid companies like google,yahoo,amazon, facebook etc. Mpesa (and all mobile money) are infrastructure . A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement.
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You're arguing with someone who just google stuff and try to string up an intelligent argument of stuff he never heard before. So he ask me which British betting company have come after sportpesa trailblazing mobile betting model worked; and seem he has now googled and discoverd BetIn,BetWay and 15 in Ghana.There is no doubt when M-pesa revolution is finally over it will have truly transformed our society and Kenya is very lucky to be the early adopter of this tech.
Look at remittance - we are now learning that diaspora prefer m-pesa over traditional remittance companies ---and that is huge market for mobile money - in kenya and the rest of developing market.
Ok now why are you focusing so much on Mpesa instead of mobile money that are similar to Mpesa? I gave you an example of cellulant http://www.cellulant.com/ that started in kenya and now has expanded to West Africa and southern africa isn't that an example of a company that expanded to rest of africa just like now sportpesa is trying to do?. The reason I focused on Mpesa is because it was the first successful mobile money in africa and all other mobile money are similar to Mpesa.
How does kenya benefit from sportspesa as it expands to the rest of the continent? I think rvpundit answered you on that. In addition Mpesa is now interconnected with MTN http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/media/vodafone-group-releases/2015/m-pesa-mtn.html meaning sportpesa can collect bets from all of MTN money customers africa from right here in Nairobi. That means there will be loads of money coming to kenya, Imagine what that will do to kenya shilling and on reserves for example.
The way you argue its like someone in the late 90s and early 2000s arguing that if AOL is a leader how come its not expanding to the rest of the world to provide internet. unbeknown to him the real juggernauts comes after the infrastructure is laid companies like google,yahoo,amazon, facebook etc. Mpesa (and all mobile money) are infrastructure . A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement.
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Bulgarian Mafia:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CohEc0FUEAAlERP.jpg)
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Bulgarian Mafia:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CohEc0FUEAAlERP.jpg)
Thinking more in the line of nominee directors, probably hiding big names i.e. the Yank Gene Grand is a director of:
(http://i.imgur.com/uXapUfS.jpg)
Also has registered the following:
(http://i.imgur.com/2OogsJI.jpg)
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Barely a year later regulator Central Bank of Kenya’s put Imperial Bank under receivership for operating in ‘unsafe or unsound business conditions’ with the late CEO being revealed as having executed one of the biggest heists in the history of banking, making away with over $300million within a span of over 12 years.
Fast forward to 6th February 2016 and a near-identical statement posted on the Arsenal website sounded familiar to the previous one with the collapsed Imperial Banks.
Vinai Venkatesham, Arsenal’s Chief Commercial Officer, said: “We are delighted to welcome SportPesa as our Official Betting Partner in Kenya. Arsenal has huge support across Africa and we look forward to engaging further with our fans in Kenya while also helping to drive the SportPesa business and, through a wide range of initiatives, the development of football in the country.”
http://cnyakundi.com/2016/03/link-between-sportpesa-bulgarian-mafia-revealed-here-for-the-first-time/
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Ok now why are you focusing so much on Mpesa instead of mobile money that are similar to Mpesa?
Because I was responding do a very specific statement that was limited to Mpesa (and other statements that followed from it). This one from you:
Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country.
By the way, that the reasoning in that statement is "problematic" can be seen from the fact that "such businesses" already exist in other places in Africa without the involvement of Kenya or Mpesa.
I gave you an example of cellulant http://www.cellulant.com/ that started in kenya and now has expanded to West Africa and southern africa isn't that an example of a company that expanded to rest of africa just like now sportpesa is trying to do?
Let me be clear: I have neither stated nor implied that SportPesa cannot expand to other countries in Africa; it most probably can. My questions have to do with the claims that it will hit the ground running because it has some sort of ""first movers"/"earliest adopters" advantage of the "just because Mpesa ... Kenya ... first". I don't see that. And the other claimed advantage---solely mobile money---is even more problematic.
The way you argue its like someone in the late 90s and early 2000s arguing that if AOL is a leader how come its not expanding to the rest of the world to provide internet. unbeknown to him the real juggernauts comes after the infrastructure is laid companies like google,yahoo,amazon, facebook etc. Mpesa (and all mobile money) are infrastructure.
I see. I think you miss my argument. Also, is actually you who been arguing on the basis of "leader" ("first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters").
Yes, Mpesa and mobile money may be considered as infrastructure. And, yes, people may and are "building" on top of the infrastructure. My argument is quite simple:
(a) Mpesa (and anything like it) is not owned by people in Kenya. So there is no basis for Kenyans to get excited whenever one sees "Mpesa" overseas; it is Vodafone people who should get excited.
(b) Whatever infrastructure you think SportPesa will take advantage of wherever it goes (e.g. Ghana) is already being taken advantage of by others, so what exactly is the "first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters" that you keep writing about?
At the very least, can you give a clear answer to red?
A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement.
I'm afraid that's not much better. Please try again. Perhaps will help:
Ghana already has quite a few betting companies, from all over the place. Some of those take all of credit card, bank transfer payments, paypal, skrill, etc. and mobile money. So, what exactly is the advantage of "solely mobile money" of SportPesa?
Here, see if can you appreciate the difference between these two statements (one your original, and the other a slight modification):
(a) "A company collecting bets on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement."
(b) "A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement."
This also brings us back to your repeated claims on "first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters". Given that there are already betting companies in Ghana that take mobile money, what particular advantage would SportPesa claim to be bringing to that market? That's the sort of question I'd like answered before our mouths start to water at the " loads of money coming to kenya".
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You're arguing with someone who just google stuff and try to string up an intelligent argument of stuff he never heard before. So he ask me which British betting company have come after sportpesa trailblazing mobile betting model worked; and seem he has now googled and discoverd BetIn,BetWay and 15 in Ghana.
My question was about British companies in Kenya; Ghana is not in Kenya. I don't know why :D, but, yes, it did occurr to me that Google might give me a better answer than RV Pundit.
Perhaps a SportPesa is a "trailblazer" in mobile betting in Kenya. But in the rest of the world? Do some "google stuff" on that. (And note that the issue is that of SportPesa going out and bringing "loads of money to Kenya".)
There is no doubt when M-pesa revolution is finally over it will have truly transformed our society and Kenya is very lucky to be the early adopter of this tech.
Look at remittance - we are now learning that diaspora prefer m-pesa over traditional remittance companies ---and that is huge market for mobile money - in kenya and the rest of developing market.
It has certainly transformed Kenya, and nobody is arguing about that. As for the rest of the world, including developing countries, I think the facts speak for themselves.
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Bulgarian Mafia:
Interesting characters. I did some "google stuff" on just one of them. He has a professional entry, with photo, on LinkedIn (which I "confirmed" by sending InMail):
Guerassim Nikolov
Group CEO at Sportpesa holding
Kenya
Gambling & Casinos
Employment history:
Group CEO
Sportpesa
2015 – Present (1 year) Africa and Europe
CEO
Sportpesa
January 2014 – 2015 (1 year) Kenya
Education:
Interior designer
High School
1986 – 1989
Volunteer Experience & Causes:
Sponsoring sports activity
Sportpesa premier league
September 2015 – Present (11 months)
First tier league in Kenya
Title sponsor
Sportpesa super 8
February 2015 Social Services
Grass root turnalent
Except for the high school, which is not named, all of the above seem to be accurate. Nowhere can one say he has lied. Oh, I'm not sure I know what "turnalent" is. :D Anyways ... seems a bit sketchy for a CEO's CV, even taking into account the "limitations" of LinkedIn.
http://cnyakundi.com/2016/03/link-between-sportpesa-bulgarian-mafia-revealed-here-for-the-first-time/
Nyakundi seems to be into cutting and pasting and then passing it off stuff as the result of his own investigative labour ... Never mind, here is the article on which he has applied scissors and glue on this one:
https://bivol.bg/en/bulgarian-politician-was-on-official-visit-to-mobster-in-kenya.html
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Seem Paul Wanderi Ndugu -the guy who made money as Safaricom dealer -is the major shareholder. A brilliant bussinessman.
As for why they invested in UK's PL
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2016/08/01/sportpesa-tells-mps-hull-city-sponsorship-part-of-global-expansion_c1395995