SportPesa goes global -sponors HullCity

[MOON Ki]

The point is it doesn't need be Mpesa it can be airtel money, MTN money etc and Sportpesa can setup base in any of those countries that have Mobile money.

My question had to do with the regulatory structures in those countries.    And you can see part of the point here:

South africa is a modern economy where traditional banking is entrenched so Mpesa didn't do well.

What about all those other poor African countries?   

People who want to bet will be inclined to sign up for mobile money irrespective which type of mobile money if one can only gamble using mobile money. Thus driving uptake in mobile money.

Perhaps.    To have a better idea, we'd need to know how such gambling has driven the uptake in mobile money.    Do you have some data for Kenya?

[MOON Ki]

Arguing for arguing sake.SportPesa knows what they're doing. Gok and regulatory bodies just need to catch up and make sure they are paying taxes. Otherwise whatever strategy SportPesa are pursuing I am sure they've thought thro this. They won't be making 800M per day or month if they were damn fools.

Those guys definitely know what they are doing, and I'm sure they are making lots of money, as do many who run gambling schemes.    No doubt about  that.   But there are plenty of "damn fools" involved in the business, which is how the money is being made.

Anyways ... my questions had to do with this dream of SportPesa expanding all over Africa etc:   Is it possible?   If it is, how will it benefit Kenyans?   

SportPesa will make money out of this sponsorship.   No doubt about that.   But from whom?   

[RV Pundit]

The gov job is to protect the fools - by regulating SportPesa  - and forcing them to spend extra money on supporting charities/sports - and of course taxing them heavily - I think the winnings are being taxed at nearly 50%.As for SportPesa - a Kenyan company - going global - this is great news -- the details are rather too obvious - it akin to asking why Equity or Kenol have gone all the way to Congo or Zimbwabwe - at end of the day - the profit will be taxed in kenya and probably invested here - more employments of kenyan - name it.

Even the fact that Kenyan company can sponsor UK football club is free marketting for the country as serious place to invest & do business.The trailblazing sportpesa is the reason many UK betting company are setting shops here....

Do we always have to go through these nursery like queries?

Those guys definitely know what they are doing, and I'm sure they are making lots of money, as do many who run gambling schemes.    No doubt about  that.   But there are plenty of "damn fools" involved in the business, which is how the money is being made.

Anyways ... my questions had to do with this dream of SportPesa expanding all over Africa etc:   Is it possible?   If it is, how will it benefit Kenyans?   

SportPesa will make money out of this sponsorship.   No doubt about that.   But from whom?   

[MOON Ki]

As for SportPesa - a Kenyan company - going global - this is great news -- the details are rather too obvious - it akin to asking why Equity or Kenol have gone all the way to Congo or Zimbwabwe

If Equity and Kenol are out  there, then I can think of obvious ways in which they are making money there.   But I have difficulties seeing how SportPesa's sponsorship of HullCity is going to make it money other  than from the punters in Kenya ... same people getting screwed.   Please indulge me and explain.

- at end of the day - the profit will be taxed in kenya and probably invested here - more employments of kenyan - name it.

Actually, outfits like SportPesa don't do much for employment figures.

Even the fact that Kenyan company can sponsor UK football club is free marketting for the country as serious place to invest & do business.The trailblazing sportpesa is the reason many UK betting company are setting shops here....

Many UK betting companies are setting up shop in Kenya?   I didn't know that.   Can you provide a list of the "many"?   And all because of SportPesa?    I didn't know that either, but once we have your list we can look into the details.   

Do we always have to go through these nursery like queries?

It appears that we have to.

[hk]

The point is it doesn't need be Mpesa it can be airtel money, MTN money etc and Sportpesa can setup base in any of those countries that have Mobile money.

My question had to do with the regulatory structures in those countries.    And you can see part of the point here:

South africa is a modern economy where traditional banking is entrenched so Mpesa didn't do well.

What about all those other poor African countries?   

People who want to bet will be inclined to sign up for mobile money irrespective which type of mobile money if one can only gamble using mobile money. Thus driving uptake in mobile money.

Perhaps.    To have a better idea, we'd need to know how such gambling has driven the uptake in mobile money.    Do you have some data for Kenya?

We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because  SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa.  Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on.  This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.

[MOON Ki]

We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because  SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa.  Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on.  This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.

Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles.     Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small.     Forget South Africa.   Just take the red above.    With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest  of Africa?

[hk]

We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because  SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa.  Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on.  This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.

Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles.     Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small.     Forget South Africa.   Just take the red above.    With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest  of Africa?

it Doesn't have to be Mpesa it just needs to be mobile money. Sportpesa accepts airtel money and orange money. Any country where there's significant mobile money users sportpesa can setup there. Ghana has 15m for example, uganda 18m . Clearly the link I gave you above shows what gambling has done to mpesa usage. There's nowhere in africa and probably the world that we have a beting company that only collects bets via mobile money. So kenya in this field we're clearly the leaders . As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries.

[MOON Ki]

We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because  SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa.  Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on.  This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.

Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles.     Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small.     Forget South Africa.   Just take the red above.    With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest  of Africa?

it Doesn't have to be Mpesa it just needs to be mobile money. Sportpesa accepts airtel money and orange money. Any country where there's significant mobile money users sportpesa can setup there. Ghana has 15m for example, uganda 18m . Clearly the link I gave you above shows what gambling has done to mpesa usage. There's nowhere in africa and probably the world that we have a beting company that only collects bets via mobile money. So kenya in this field we're clearly the leaders . As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries.

As I indicated, I'd like to take it small-small.  So, for now, let's leave gambling out of it.   We'll get there, but first I'd like an answer red.  After that' we'll look at the "why".   And so on ...  This will also help us with the extrapolations in blue.   

So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?

[hk]

We keep going round in circles here. SA mpesa failed mainly because  SA has entrenched banking system and most of their economy is formal unlike kenya which has a huge informal sector which either operate on cash or now Mpesa.  Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations. And that's what Sportpesa is banking on.  This is what betting has done for mpesa http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-09/vodafone-mobile-money-volumes-boosted-by-sports-betting-in-kenya.
There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.

Yes, we do seem to be going around in circles.     Lets' see if we can make some progress by doing it small-small.     Forget South Africa.   Just take the red above.    With this "first movers advantage", how has M-PESA done in the rest  of Africa?

it Doesn't have to be Mpesa it just needs to be mobile money. Sportpesa accepts airtel money and orange money. Any country where there's significant mobile money users sportpesa can setup there. Ghana has 15m for example, uganda 18m . Clearly the link I gave you above shows what gambling has done to mpesa usage. There's nowhere in africa and probably the world that we have a beting company that only collects bets via mobile money. So kenya in this field we're clearly the leaders . As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries.

As I indicated, I'd like to take it small-small.  So, for now, let's leave gambling out of it.   We'll get there, but first I'd like an answer red.  After that' we'll look at the "why".   And so on ...  This will also help us with the extrapolations in blue.   

So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?

So now you want to know why Mobile money has been successful in kenya?

[MOON Ki]

So now you want to know why Mobile money has been successful in kenya?

Here is my question:

So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?

[hk]

So now you want to know why Mobile money has been successful in kenya?

Here is my question:

So, with this "first movers advantage" and "earliest adopters" etc., how has M-PESA done in the rest of Africa?

I answered that already Mpesa is owned by vodafone  and vodafone operates in 6 countries which include SA and Egypt. In the countries that vodafone operate its only kenya and SA that its dominant operator. Mpesa in those countries might not be doing as well as in kenya but mobile money as a sector is growing. Take Zambia for example, MTN zambia is the dominant operator vadacom money(mpesa) is smaller. The sector is growing and really there's not much of difference between mobile money that are text based. In kenya its where we've fully inter-grated Mpesa with regular banking and also payment of utility bills. A case of first mover advantage is cellulant, which is the company that connected banks with Mpesa and utility billing system with Mpesa from dstv to kplc. Cellulant parlayed that experience to setup base in Nigeria and now they derive more income from West Africa than kenya.

[MOON Ki]

I answered that already Mpesa is owned by vodafone  and vodafone operates in 6 countries which include SA and Egypt. In the countries that vodafone operate its only kenya and SA that its dominant operator. Mpesa in those countries might not be doing as well as in kenya but mobile money as a sector is growing. Take Zambia for example, MTN zambia is the dominant operator vadacom money(mpesa) is smaller. The sector is growing and really there's not much of difference between mobile money that are text based. In kenya its where we've fully inter-grated Mpesa with regular banking and also payment of utility bills. A case of first mover advantage is cellulant, which is the company that connected banks with Mpesa and utility billing system with Mpesa from dstv to kplc. Cellulant parlayed that experience to setup base in Nigeria and now they derive more income from West Africa than kenya.

If I understand you correctly, then, even with "first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc., M-PESA is limited to just 5 countries (excluding SA, where it is pretty much dead).   Is that correct?    If so, then why get excited about ""first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc.?   

One reason I ask is a statement like this from you:

There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.

See if you can relate the red to the limitations above.   

[hk]

I answered that already Mpesa is owned by vodafone  and vodafone operates in 6 countries which include SA and Egypt. In the countries that vodafone operate its only kenya and SA that its dominant operator. Mpesa in those countries might not be doing as well as in kenya but mobile money as a sector is growing. Take Zambia for example, MTN zambia is the dominant operator vadacom money(mpesa) is smaller. The sector is growing and really there's not much of difference between mobile money that are text based. In kenya its where we've fully inter-grated Mpesa with regular banking and also payment of utility bills. A case of first mover advantage is cellulant, which is the company that connected banks with Mpesa and utility billing system with Mpesa from dstv to kplc. Cellulant parlayed that experience to setup base in Nigeria and now they derive more income from West Africa than kenya.

If I understand you correctly, then, even with "first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc., M-PESA is limited to just 5 countries (excluding SA, where it is pretty much dead).   Is that correct?    If so, then why get excited about ""first mover advantage", "earliest adopter", etc.?   

One reason I ask is a statement like this from you:

There's another business related to gambling which is getting started offering betting picks or tips. Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country. We might not export movies like naija but on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage.

See if you can relate the red to the limitations above.   

I give up!! Mpesa can only be in those countries that vodafone has operation or part owner of the local mobile telco. there's little difference between Mpesa and airtel money, both are structured text(sms)  encrypted based that notify and liquidate the sms via either agent or banks. Do you understand that??? Kenya is where mobile money took off and I have given example of the likes of cellulant. Even Sportpesa,Mcheza or betin are in kenya because of mobile money and now those companies are expanding to the rest of africa. That is first mover advantage. There's nowhere in the world that there's a betting company that solely operate by collecting bets via mobile phone except kenya.

[MOON Ki]

I give up!! Mpesa can only be in those countries that vodafone has operation or part owner of the local mobile telco.

OK.   I think I understand you.    So when you say that "Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country", the rest of Africa is really just a reference to 5 countries.   Right?   

there's little difference between Mpesa and airtel money, both are structured text(sms)  encrypted based that notify and liquidate the sms via either agent or banks. Do you understand that???

Yes, I think I understand that.    I focused on M-PESA because of your statement your statement above: "just because M-PESA ...".   

Even Sportpesa,Mcheza or betin are in kenya because of mobile money and now those companies are expanding to the rest of africa. That is first mover advantage.

Yes, but an advantage for whom?   Betin, for example, is just part of the Goldbet group, which certainly appears to be expanding all over.     I don't quite see why Kenyans should derive any joy from such expansion. 

Your earlier statements were that "on mobile money and business derived from that we have first movers advantage" and "As the earliest adopters of mobile money (text based), we have tried many things and the things that work in kenya can be exported to other countries".   So what I wanted to know was the "first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters" story with respect to Kenya and what is to be (or is being exported).   

Even with M-PESA, it appears that it is Vodafone/Vodacom that is doing the expansion, not the "first movers"/"earliest adopters" of Kenya.       

Vodafone owns the M-Pesa concept and has introduced it in eight countries including Kenya, India, Tanzania, and South Africa.

http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Vodafone-takes-home-Sh2-3bn-of-M-Pesa-revenue/-/539550/1852810/-/m9igv0/-/index.html

Why do Kenyans get so excited whenever they see "M-PESA" elsewhere in the world?

There's nowhere in the world that there's a betting company that solely operate by collect bets via mobile phone.

I'm afraid I don't see the significance of the "solely".   In fact, I suspect that a company that collects money by numerous means (including mobile phone) would have an advantage over one that collected them solely through mobile phones.   Can you explain the particular advantages of the "solely"?

By the way, earlier you wrote that:

Take a look at Ghana MTN money, it has about 15m. So Sportspesa with exposure it will get can setup base in Ghana depending on the country betting regulations.

I took a look, and there appears to be plenty of sports betting in Ghana.    Perhaps SportPesa could be join the 15 or so companies already engaged in that  there.    I took a look at some of them, and they will take mobile money (e.g. MTN).    Here's my question: What does "first mover"/"early adopter" do for M-PESA or SportPesa in such a context.   In particular, why do you believe that ""Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country"?   (Note the emphasis)  And note that any expansion of M-PESA anything is Vodafone, not Kenya, doing the exporting.

[hk]

Ok now why are you focusing so much on Mpesa instead of mobile money that are similar to Mpesa? I gave you an example of cellulant http://www.cellulant.com/   that started in kenya and now has expanded to West Africa and southern africa isn't that an example of a company that expanded to rest of africa just like now sportpesa is trying to do?. The reason I focused on Mpesa is because it was the first successful mobile money in africa and all other mobile money are similar to Mpesa.
How does kenya benefit from sportspesa as it expands to the rest of the continent? I think rvpundit answered you on that. In addition Mpesa is now interconnected with MTN http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/media/vodafone-group-releases/2015/m-pesa-mtn.html meaning sportpesa can collect bets from all of MTN money customers africa from right here in Nairobi. That means there will be loads of money coming to kenya, Imagine what that will do to kenya shilling and on reserves for example.
The way you argue its like someone in the late 90s and early 2000s arguing that if AOL is a leader how come its not expanding to the rest of the world to provide internet. unbeknown to him the real juggernauts comes after the infrastructure is laid companies like google,yahoo,amazon, facebook etc. Mpesa (and all mobile money) are infrastructure . A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement.

[RV Pundit]

You're arguing with someone who just google stuff and try to string up an intelligent argument of stuff he never heard before. So he ask me which British betting company have come after sportpesa trailblazing mobile betting model worked; and seem he has now googled and discoverd BetIn,BetWay and 15 in Ghana.There is no doubt when M-pesa revolution is finally over it will have truly transformed our society and Kenya is very lucky to be the early adopter of this tech.

Look at remittance - we are now learning that diaspora prefer m-pesa over traditional remittance companies ---and that is huge market for mobile money - in kenya and the rest of developing market.

Ok now why are you focusing so much on Mpesa instead of mobile money that are similar to Mpesa? I gave you an example of cellulant http://www.cellulant.com/   that started in kenya and now has expanded to West Africa and southern africa isn't that an example of a company that expanded to rest of africa just like now sportpesa is trying to do?. The reason I focused on Mpesa is because it was the first successful mobile money in africa and all other mobile money are similar to Mpesa.
How does kenya benefit from sportspesa as it expands to the rest of the continent? I think rvpundit answered you on that. In addition Mpesa is now interconnected with MTN http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/media/vodafone-group-releases/2015/m-pesa-mtn.html meaning sportpesa can collect bets from all of MTN money customers africa from right here in Nairobi. That means there will be loads of money coming to kenya, Imagine what that will do to kenya shilling and on reserves for example.
The way you argue its like someone in the late 90s and early 2000s arguing that if AOL is a leader how come its not expanding to the rest of the world to provide internet. unbeknown to him the real juggernauts comes after the infrastructure is laid companies like google,yahoo,amazon, facebook etc. Mpesa (and all mobile money) are infrastructure . A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement.

[Simanova]

Bulgarian Mafia:

[Empedocles]

Bulgarian Mafia:

Thinking more in the line of nominee directors, probably hiding big names i.e. the Yank Gene Grand is a director of:



Also has registered the following:

[Simanova]

http://cnyakundi.com/2016/03/link-between-sportpesa-bulgarian-mafia-revealed-here-for-the-first-time/

[MOON Ki]

Ok now why are you focusing so much on Mpesa instead of mobile money that are similar to Mpesa?

Because I was responding do a very specific statement that was limited to Mpesa (and other statements that followed from it).   This one from you:

Kenya will export such businesses to the rest of africa just because Mpesa took off in kenya before any other country.

By the way, that the reasoning in that statement is "problematic" can be seen from the fact that "such businesses" already exist in other places in Africa without the involvement of Kenya or Mpesa.

I gave you an example of cellulant http://www.cellulant.com/   that started in kenya and now has expanded to West Africa and southern africa isn't that an example of a company that expanded to rest of africa just like now sportpesa is trying to do?

Let me be clear:   I have neither stated nor implied that SportPesa cannot expand to other countries in Africa; it most probably can.   My questions have to do with the claims that it will hit the ground running because it has some sort of ""first movers"/"earliest adopters" advantage of the "just because Mpesa ... Kenya ... first".   I don't see that.      And the other claimed advantage---solely mobile money---is even more problematic.

The way you argue its like someone in the late 90s and early 2000s arguing that if AOL is a leader how come its not expanding to the rest of the world to provide internet. unbeknown to him the real juggernauts comes after the infrastructure is laid companies like google,yahoo,amazon, facebook etc. Mpesa (and all mobile money) are infrastructure.

I see.   I think you miss my argument.   Also, is actually you who been arguing on the basis of "leader" ("first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters").   

Yes, Mpesa and mobile money may be considered as infrastructure.   And, yes, people may and are "building" on top of  the infrastructure.   My argument is quite simple:   

(a) Mpesa (and anything like it) is not owned by people in Kenya.    So there is no basis for Kenyans to get excited whenever one sees "Mpesa" overseas; it is Vodafone people who should get excited.   

(b) Whatever infrastructure you think SportPesa will take advantage of wherever it goes (e.g. Ghana) is already being taken advantage of by others, so what exactly is the "first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters" that you keep writing about?

At the very least, can you give a clear answer to red?   

A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement.

I'm afraid that's not much better.    Please try again.   Perhaps will help:

Ghana already has quite a few betting companies, from all over the place.   Some of those take all of credit card, bank transfer payments, paypal, skrill, etc. and mobile money.    So, what exactly is the advantage of "solely mobile money" of SportPesa?   

Here, see if can you appreciate the difference between these two statements (one your original, and the other a slight modification):

(a) "A company collecting bets  on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement."

(b) "A company collecting bets solely on mobile means in ghana for example it has a potential customers of 15m. And in addition it can disperse winnings instantly hence driving more customer engagement."

This also brings us back to your repeated claims on "first movers advantage"/"earliest adopters".   Given that there are already betting companies in Ghana that take mobile money, what particular advantage would SportPesa claim to be bringing to that market?   That's the sort of question I'd like answered before our mouths start to water at the " loads of money coming to kenya".