SportPesa goes global -sponors HullCity

[RV Pundit]

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They are raking billions from gambling craze in kenya. All these thanks to m-pesa.
http://www.hullcitytigers.com/news/article/2016-17/tigers-announce-new-official-sponsor-3204398.aspx

[RVtitem]

is gambling money taxed, what rates?

[RV Pundit]

I think they tax the winnings. They should consider taxing the every transaction.

is gambling money taxed, what rates?

[Simanova]

The poor will now finance elite football in a former colonial power. I am fighting to get CORD to commit to ending gambling especially of the mass type

[RV Pundit]

Maybe they are targeting to go global - which will be good for the country. Kenyan companies need to think beyond our borders. If the idea is to roll this out (regulatory obstacle notwistanding) in many countries with m-pesa; then this good idea.

Clearly there is something SportPesa are gaining here. Unless they are fools.

The kind of money these guys are swimming in make it impossible to ban them now. They can literally buy out anybody.

Treasury have a problem taxing poor people with money to waste - and here is where they need to focus - milk sportpesa billions - and invest the money back in the country.

The poor will now finance elite football in a former colonial power. I am fighting to get CORD to commit to ending gambling especially of the mass type

[hk]

This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.

[Empedocles]

Maybe they are targeting to go global - which will be good for the country. Kenyan companies need to think beyond our borders. If the idea is to roll this out (regulatory obstacle notwistanding) in many countries with m-pesa; then this good idea.

Clearly there is something SportPesa are gaining here. Unless they are fools.

The kind of money these guys are swimming in make it impossible to ban them now. They can literally buy out anybody.

Treasury have a problem taxing poor people with money to waste - and here is where they need to focus - milk sportpesa billions - and invest the money back in the country.

How's this even remotely good?

Betting and gambling have never created wealth. What they do is transfer capital from the general population to a very few elite, which now in Sportpesa's case is being sent overseas as sponsorship to an English team. So thousands in Kenya lose their shirts, Sportpesa gives a bit of the money to Hullcity, Sportspesa (hopefully) gets more gamblers to lose so they transfer much more money to themselves. You're watching capital in a poor country being destroyed.

Milking Sportspesa via taxes is useless, the damage has already being done (that's even before the taxes are stolen). I'm sure you're aware of the thousands of poor gullible wanainchi who've squandered millions betting everything they have on a chance of having a better life (Sports betting craze leaves trail of broken families, agony). Over 90% of gamblers lose. Might as well legalize DECI etc.

[RV Pundit]

Precisely.

This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.

[RV Pundit]

Gambling is cornerstone of some economies including Lax Vegas, Macau and others. British betting companies are here in Kenya. The thing with gambling is to regulate it. Ensure the winnings are taxed heavily and also the profit are invested in social goods. SportPesa should not be allowed to take all the milk - just the cream. So far SportPesa have sponsored several kenya sports in millions of shs deal - that right there is problem of sport financing solved.

Gambling, alcohol and cigarretes are necessary evil and gov can make a tidy sum coz people are going to drink/smoke/gamble whether you like it or not.

Heavily regulate. Tax every gamble. Tax every win. Force company to invest the profit in social good.

How's this even remotely good?

Betting and gambling have never created wealth. What they do is transfer capital from the general population to a very few elite, which now in Sportpesa's case is being sent overseas as sponsorship to an English team. So thousands in Kenya lose their shirts, Sportpesa gives a bit of the money to Hullcity, Sportspesa (hopefully) gets more gamblers to lose so they transfer much more money to themselves. You're watching capital in a poor country being destroyed.

Milking Sportspesa via taxes is useless, the damage has already being done (that's even before the taxes are stolen). I'm sure you're aware of the thousands of poor gullible wanainchi who've squandered millions betting everything they have on a chance of having a better life (Sports betting craze leaves trail of broken families, agony). Over 90% of gamblers lose. Might as well legalize DECI etc.

[Empedocles]

[MOON Ki]

The idea that this sort of gambling is good for Kenya because "just look at Las Vegas and Macau!" is an interesting one.    Setting aside the fact  that these are small places and they get their gamblers from all the place, as far as I can tell, most of the people gambling there have enough disposable income that they can indulge themselves once in a while.    Is that true for the gamblers in Kenya, or are they just desperate people?

Likewise, how SportPesa's "going global" is good for the country is a mystery.   Even if the idea is that they will be taxed heavily---and that isn't happening----it should not be assumed that these global operations have (or would have) arrangements that make overseas earnings taxable in Kenya.   

And is there actually money to be made right there anyway?   Will British gamblers throw away their money at SportPesa"?   I can't imagine why  they would do that; after all, the football teams are European, and the punters have numerous other opportunities to lose their money (and to their compatriots).   

Still, this is a smart move on the company's part: things will be much easier to sell in Kenya when the local manambas see wazungus in a leading European football league wearing "SportPesa uniforms" and saying good things about it.   

[MOON Ki]

This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.

Why is it that M-Pesa has so far not made much headway in the rest of Africa?     Why and how would the opportunity to gamble-by-remote change that?

[hk]

This will help Mpesa, (vodacom money) to increase uptake especially in other african countries. Which will result to increased user base for sportpesa. Sportpesa is making more than 500m per week and clearly they can ride on mobile money and mobile internet to create a behemoth.

Why is it that M-Pesa has so far not made much headway in the rest of Africa?     Why and how would the opportunity to gamble-by-remote change that?

Tanzania Vodacom money which is essentially Mpesa has over 4m users, Uganda airtel money has well over 15m users, so mobile money is growing especially in countries where the regulators have given telecoms the greenlight instead of banks(Its one of the reason Nigeria mobile money isn't doing well). Africans are addicted to Premier league providing entertainment,a chance to bet on the games they're already watching will lead to them signing up for mobile money which obviously benefit sportspesa. Mind you gambling fees are the biggest driver of Mpesa revenue for safaricom. I am sure airtel money or vodacom TZ will be salivating to get a cut of the action.

[MOON Ki]

Tanzania Vodacom money which is essentially Mpesa has over 4m users, Uganda airtel money has well over 15m users, so mobile money is growing especially in countries where the regulators have given telecoms the greenlight instead of banks(Its one of the reason Nigeria mobile money isn't doing well).

Take another look at my first question.    How many countries in Africa?   In how many of those is M-PESA "growing especially"?   If the regulators are the problem---and I don't believe that's all of  it---how would mindless gambling change that?  Would it not be the case that one would have to consider regulations on gambling and  regulations (and other factors)  that already limit M-PESA?

Empedocles is absolutely right: this is just another "brilliant" scheme in which those at the top will get even more from those at the lowest levels.   

[hk]

Tanzania Vodacom money which is essentially Mpesa has over 4m users, Uganda airtel money has well over 15m users, so mobile money is growing especially in countries where the regulators have given telecoms the greenlight instead of banks(Its one of the reason Nigeria mobile money isn't doing well).

Take another look at my first question.    How many countries in Africa?   In how many of those is M-PESA "growing especially"?   If the regulators are the problem---and I don't believe that's all all it---how would mindless gambling change that?  Would it not be the case that one would have to consider regulations on gambling and  regulations (and other factors)  that already limit M-PESA?

First of all Mpesa owned by Vodafone can only be only be in the following countries http://www.vodafone.com/business/global-enterprise/africa . There's no denying that sportpesa is doing well cause of the easy of collecting money via Mpesa(mobile Money). Anywhere in africa that people watch football and there's mobile money Sportpesa can operate. Gambling is value added service on top of the core mobile money services. As such the more things you can do with mobile money the more appealing that service become hence driving uptake for both mobile money and the entertainment in form gambling.

[MOON Ki]

First of all Mpesa owned by Vodafone can only be only be in the following countries http://www.vodafone.com/business/global-enterprise/africa.

I don't absolutely know what you mean by (a) "can" and (b) "countries"; I will go by the standard meanings.     In the link you provided, here is what I can see:

"We established a hub in South Africa in 2009 and have expanded into Kenya, Egypt, Mozambique, Tanzania and Ghana."

I think it is dead in S. Africa, but never mind.      If it can be in only those countries, then how and where do the other countries come in??

There's no denying that sportpesa is doing well cause of the easy of collecting money via Mpesa(mobile Money). Anywhere in africa that people watch football and there's mobile money Sportpesa can operate. Gambling is value added service on top of the core mobile money services. As such the more things you can do with mobile money the more appealing that service become hence driving uptake for both mobile money and the entertainment in form gambling.

Slow down there, friend.   Where is it doing well?     You also say that "Anywhere in africa that people watch football and there's mobile money Sportpesa can operate", but your own list gives only 5 (or 6 countries in Africa).    And how many countries are in Africa? 

So, let me ask again: 

(1) Why M-PESA not made much headway in the rest of Africa?     

(2) How would sports gambling make a difference?

I'd look at the first before the second.   As for the notion that "gambling is value added service", I'd be very worried about anyone who believes that, but here our main concern is actually (1).   So how about we do that first. (My reasoning here is that if, say,  the most basic regulations won't allow M-PESA into the place, then inviting people to lose their money doesn't seem to be the best "work-around".)

After that, we can look at "anywhere in africa that people watch football".  Many of us here watch all sorts of sports?   Does it necessarily mean that we gamble on them?    And if we don't, is it solely because we don't have the opportunity and means to do so?   

It is, course, possible that there are all sorts of suckers out there that are "amenable" to SportPesa. But such people are already being fleeced where they are, and, beyond regulatory and other complications, I don't see what *-Pesa has to offer them.

[hk]

Mpesa is owned by vodafone only operates in the countries that vodafone owns part of the telecom. So Mpesa can't be in Nigeria because Vodafone doesn't own any telco there. The point is it doesn't need be Mpesa it can be airtel money, MTN money etc and Sportpesa can setup base in any of those countries that have Mobile money. Because their business is based on collecting bets via mobile money. Kenya is the only country that Vodafone has a dominant market share in the six countries it operates apart from SA. South africa is a modern economy where traditional banking is entrenched so Mpesa didn't do well. Gambling whether bad or good is a form of entertainment some people like it (ladbrokes does over $15b annual) some people don't. But its clear a section of a population in any country will indulge in it and the easier it is to bet the more people participate. People who want to bet will be inclined to sign up for mobile money irrespective which type of mobile money if one can only gamble using mobile money. Thus driving uptake in mobile money.

[RV Pundit]

Arguing for arguing sake.SportPesa knows what they're doing. Gok and regulatory bodies just need to catch up and make sure they are paying taxes. Otherwise whatever strategy SportPesa are pursuing I am sure they've thought thro this. They won't be making 800M per day or month if they were damn fools.

[hk]

Arguing for arguing sake.SportPesa knows what they're doing. Gok and regulatory bodies just need to catch up and make sure they are paying taxes. Otherwise whatever strategy SportPesa are pursuing I am sure they've thought thro this. They won't be making 800M per day or month if they were damn fools.

Amen to that!! Bottomline there wouldnt be Sportpesa without Mpesa.

[RV Pundit]

Exactly. M-pesa revolution when it finally acknowledged will be huge. But here you're dealing with people who dismiss M-pesa severally because it couldn't fly in South Africa or their adopted country. That is suppose to make M-pesa less great.

Amen to that!! Bottomline there wouldnt be Sportpesa without Mpesa.