Author Topic: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic  (Read 14109 times)

Offline GeeMail

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #120 on: April 15, 2020, 06:22:53 PM »
Like I said before, I refused to believe the 'it's exaggerated' line because I checked and found annual flu mortalities in Italy are 8,000 and that's less than half of what Covid has done in Italy in a matter of weeks. In addition, their healthcare system has been collapsing and doctors improvising third-world style coz they've run out of ventilators. There's just no way something hasn't gone drastically wrong in a NEW way, and that this is all just a misunderstanding of data. Those deaths and people needing help just to breathe all at once are not made up.
There's definitely something in the air, but a lot of those fatalities could be the result of underlying conditions complicated by panic, anxiety and chaos which have also ended up overwhelming the existing services, making everything worse. It's a vicious cycle.
Celebratory violence: 2017 crime invented to justify killings to prevent Raila from becoming PORK. http://www.nipate.com/download/file.php?id=4244

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #121 on: April 15, 2020, 07:53:09 PM »
CARES ACT SECTION 4409. Where hospitals are compensated 15% more should they admit or loses a patient to Covid-19. That is incentive enough and there enough credible stories of doctors questioning a lot to do with Coronavirus and how numbers are added up or even tested. But then 80% chances you'd dismiss them as conspiratorial. 


NB: Amazingly CARES ACT (US version of Coronavirus Relief Package) is mostly a rescue package for Wall Street. Lots of Trillions to rescue corporate America while they mail $1,200 to the vulnerable. Uhuru also came up with a "rescue package" which wanainchi didn't understand but corporate sector can as easily celebrate.
 

SEC. 4409. MEDICARE HOSPITAL INPATIENT PROSPECTIVE PAYMENT SYSTEM ADD-ON PAYMENT FOR COVID–19 PATIENTS DURING EMERGENCY PERIOD.
(a) In General.—Section 1886(d)(4)(C) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395ww(d)(4)(C)) is amended by adding at the end the following new clause:


“(iv) (I) For discharges occurring during the emergency period described in section 1135(g)(1)(B), in the case of a discharge that has a principal or secondary diagnosis of COVID–19, the Secretary shall increase the weighting factor for each diagnosis-related group (with such a principal or secondary diagnosis) by 15 percent.

“(II) Any adjustment under subclause (I) shall not be taken into account in applying budget neutrality under clause (iii).”.

(b) Implementation.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary may implement the amendment made by subsection (a) by program instruction or otherwise.


I was pretty sure about that.  I was giving Garliv a chance to share something that might make me reconsider my position.

And yes, I believe there is a connection between money and prescription of certain drugs.  I have seen evidence of that.  This particular medicare "scam" does not compute though.

It looks like the idea is to fund medicare to handle an anticipated covid-19 spike during the emergency.  Medicare covers seniors and already has a budget that does not cover covid-19.  The bill addresses that far as I can tell.  I think we can agree that is reasonable.  If you don't do that, hospitals are going to be in a bind.

You are saying it can be abused.  But that is not the same as saying it has been abused.  It would be a bit like accusing the school bursar of stealing money, because he can.  Hospitals in the US have chains of accountability that make such abuse unlikely.


Bit
do you realize this person has a mental health problem.
If you don’t believe me just listen to his Arguments and  trumps

I don't see him as unhinged so much as having confirmation bias.  He seems to respond to reasonable push back though grudgingly.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #122 on: April 16, 2020, 02:31:58 AM »
Where is Garliv?

Trump is solidly behind the CDC's methodologies, a rare departure from his Fox base who are advancing this over-counting narrative

Check from.about 1:51:20
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #123 on: April 16, 2020, 05:20:20 AM »
Trump has suspended US donations to WHO for bizarre reasons... this bloke is crazy.

In the meantime China has doubled down on covid diplomacy.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktnnews/video/2000187920/kenya-receives-medical-consignment-from-jack-ma-to-help-fight-coronavirus
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #124 on: April 16, 2020, 08:15:17 AM »
Yes, crazy and childish for trump to throw tantrums now. There will be time for such...after the pandemics.
Trump has suspended US donations to WHO for bizarre reasons... this bloke is crazy.

In the meantime China has doubled down on covid diplomacy.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktnnews/video/2000187920/kenya-receives-medical-consignment-from-jack-ma-to-help-fight-coronavirus

Offline vooke

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2020, 11:15:54 AM »
Trump has suspended US donations to WHO for bizarre reasons... this bloke is crazy.

In the meantime China has doubled down on covid diplomacy.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktnnews/video/2000187920/kenya-receives-medical-consignment-from-jack-ma-to-help-fight-coronavirus

US’ share of WHO’s budget is pocket change at I think $200M. Kung Fu man could easily pick the tabs and move on without Trump
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline gout

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #126 on: April 16, 2020, 02:41:07 PM »
WHO/Tedros have mishandled the crisis. Tedros and WHO are going down. China can't take tabs for salaries being paid in Geneva.

https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/reports/en/

Trump has suspended US donations to WHO for bizarre reasons... this bloke is crazy.

In the meantime China has doubled down on covid diplomacy.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktnnews/video/2000187920/kenya-receives-medical-consignment-from-jack-ma-to-help-fight-coronavirus

US’ share of WHO’s budget is pocket change at I think $200M. Kung Fu man could easily pick the tabs and move on without Trump
I underestimated the heartbreaks visited by hasla revolution

Offline Garliv

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #127 on: April 16, 2020, 05:23:42 PM »
I don't support Trump just for the sake of it. He's wrong in this.
So New York added 3,700 deaths to Covid-19 even though those were specifically NEVER TESTED for Covid-19 but ASSUMED. And you believe that is reasonable and scientific way of recording deaths? In this 21st century and in all places, the US? Even in Kenya it's sophisticated enough to ascertain cause of death in outposts medical centres without wholesome assumption.

The story is all over including New York Times which you'd believe. 

But never mind, am being conspiratorial..


Where is Garliv?

Trump is solidly behind the CDC's methodologies, a rare departure from his Fox base who are advancing this over-counting narrative

Check from.about 1:51:20

Offline Garliv

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #128 on: April 16, 2020, 05:33:14 PM »
Don't worry BILL GATES "the most powerful Doctor..." will pick the tab. He's no.2 in donating to the WHO after the US. And that has given him influence in the WHO to pursue his pet projects on vaccine and other issues. Read this article of 2017

https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/


NB: Even though Trump is throwing tantrums I don't believe US will let others step in. Whoever pays the piper calls the tune and i do not think US will let China or any other party step in. With cash comes influence. WHO is still under US thumb; so the "owners of the US" will obviously find ways sabotaging Trump. It won't be the first time.



WHO/Tedros have mishandled the crisis. Tedros and WHO are going down. China can't take tabs for salaries being paid in Geneva.

https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/reports/en/

Trump has suspended US donations to WHO for bizarre reasons... this bloke is crazy.

In the meantime China has doubled down on covid diplomacy.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktnnews/video/2000187920/kenya-receives-medical-consignment-from-jack-ma-to-help-fight-coronavirus

US’ share of WHO’s budget is pocket change at I think $200M. Kung Fu man could easily pick the tabs and move on without Trump

Offline vooke

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #129 on: April 16, 2020, 07:44:29 PM »

Where did you read ASSUMED?

I don't support Trump just for the sake of it. He's wrong in this.
So New York added 3,700 deaths to Covid-19 even though those were specifically NEVER TESTED for Covid-19 but ASSUMED. And you believe that is reasonable and scientific way of recording deaths? In this 21st century and in all places, the US? Even in Kenya it's sophisticated enough to ascertain cause of death in outposts medical centres without wholesome assumption.

The story is all over including New York Times which you'd believe. 

But never mind, am being conspiratorial..


Where is Garliv?

Trump is solidly behind the CDC's methodologies, a rare departure from his Fox base who are advancing this over-counting narrative

Check from.about 1:51:20
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #130 on: April 17, 2020, 04:51:28 AM »
I don't support Trump just for the sake of it. He's wrong in this.
So New York added 3,700 deaths to Covid-19 even though those were specifically NEVER TESTED for Covid-19 but ASSUMED. And you believe that is reasonable and scientific way of recording deaths? In this 21st century and in all places, the US? Even in Kenya it's sophisticated enough to ascertain cause of death in outposts medical centres without wholesome assumption.

The story is all over including New York Times which you'd believe. 

But never mind, am being conspiratorial..


Where is Garliv?

Trump is solidly behind the CDC's methodologies, a rare departure from his Fox base who are advancing this over-counting narrative

Check from.about 1:51:20

Can you share a link?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #131 on: April 17, 2020, 11:45:46 AM »
I don't support Trump just for the sake of it. He's wrong in this.
So New York added 3,700 deaths to Covid-19 even though those were specifically NEVER TESTED for Covid-19 but ASSUMED. And you believe that is reasonable and scientific way of recording deaths? In this 21st century and in all places, the US? Even in Kenya it's sophisticated enough to ascertain cause of death in outposts medical centres without wholesome assumption.

The story is all over including New York Times which you'd believe. 

But never mind, am being conspiratorial..


Where is Garliv?

Trump is solidly behind the CDC's methodologies, a rare departure from his Fox base who are advancing this over-counting narrative

Check from.about 1:51:20

Can you share a link?

The video was THE  link

Here. Just remove the space between http and s
http s://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f0f-JoUxrI&t=6680
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Garliv

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #132 on: April 17, 2020, 04:42:02 PM »
https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-revises-coronavirus-death-205328540.html


On Tuesday, the city's health department released a revised COVID-19 death count that included those who were not tested but were presumed to have died from the disease. That added an additional 3,700 people, bumping the city's total count well over 10,000 coronavirus fatalities.



https://www.rt.com/op-ed/485925-new-york-coronavirus-deaths/

New York City has increased its officially recorded number of Covid-19 victims by more than 40 percent, after making the presumption that people found dead in their homes who had never tested positive for the virus had died of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

New York City, already a world epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, sharply increased its death toll by more than 3,700 victims on Tuesday, after officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it.





Can you share a link?

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #133 on: April 17, 2020, 07:51:19 PM »
https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-revises-coronavirus-death-205328540.html


On Tuesday, the city's health department released a revised COVID-19 death count that included those who were not tested but were presumed to have died from the disease. That added an additional 3,700 people, bumping the city's total count well over 10,000 coronavirus fatalities.



https://www.rt.com/op-ed/485925-new-york-coronavirus-deaths/

New York City has increased its officially recorded number of Covid-19 victims by more than 40 percent, after making the presumption that people found dead in their homes who had never tested positive for the virus had died of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

New York City, already a world epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, sharply increased its death toll by more than 3,700 victims on Tuesday, after officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it.





Can you share a link?

They are accounting for the excess mortality experienced during this period of the year.  Is it perfect?  No.  There are almost certainly to be a number who did not die of covid-19 or even have it.  It's an inexact science in this case, but it's not scattershot.  They are not counting gunshot victims to pick an example.  And yes, some of those victims might be victims of the vanilla pneumonia or the flu, heart-attack etc occasioned by stoppage of routine medical services.  How many, is something we can only determine with confidence when the receipts start to come in maybe a year or two from now.

Yes, even in the 21st century, not every cause of death can be determined with certainty.  And this includes people who have gone through extensive post mortem.  But you can reason about it.  There is data doing the rounds from Italy for instance that suggests an under-count of covid-19 cases.  I have linked to some of that on this forum before, but if you need it, I will gladly look it up and share again.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #134 on: April 18, 2020, 04:54:35 PM »
https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-revises-coronavirus-death-205328540.html


On Tuesday, the city's health department released a revised COVID-19 death count that included those who were not tested but were presumed to have died from the disease. That added an additional 3,700 people, bumping the city's total count well over 10,000 coronavirus fatalities.



https://www.rt.com/op-ed/485925-new-york-coronavirus-deaths/

New York City has increased its officially recorded number of Covid-19 victims by more than 40 percent, after making the presumption that people found dead in their homes who had never tested positive for the virus had died of it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

New York City, already a world epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, sharply increased its death toll by more than 3,700 victims on Tuesday, after officials said they were now including people who had never tested positive for the virus but were presumed to have died of it.





Can you share a link?

Isn’t it obvious not everyone who dies is tested?  If a patient is exhibiting Covid-19 symptoms and they perish it seems sensible to presume they died of it,and to carry out contact tracing and all. Given the limited resources(testing kits) it seems wasteful testing dead bodies for purposes of record keeping and nothing else.

Wuhan revised their dead upwards and I’m reading UK nursing home deaths may be 7K and not 1400 as reported.

Nobody really gains in reporting these deaths unless you can show me how
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Garliv

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #135 on: April 20, 2020, 12:48:11 AM »
Fortunately not everyone has such a cavalier attitude towards data collection especially when such data is used to declare pandemic and shut down economies, lockdown daily life and have de facto haouse arrest for millions. And all the while "we are waiting for vaccine....."

Secondly, that "simple act" of declaring 4k deaths as presumed Covid-19 after the fact raises a lot of questions. Serious ones. Like for example, if indeed these deaths were/are "excess deaths" (meaning they surpass average number of expected  deaths with that period), how come no one noticed? And don't tell me 4k excess deaths in NY would not be noticed or invite a lot of question and worry from State government, hospitals and federal governments and hosts of other government agencies. Another important question is, since these 4k deaths didn't happen within an hour or a day, what was recorded before as the cause? And why change from that to Covid-19?
And please don't give us that "if someone exhibit Covid-19 symptoms then it is reasonable to register such a death as a result of Covid-19..." Because a host of other diseases and conditions have similar symptoms or combination of those symptoms. Check symptoms for Zinc deficiency and compare them with what they say are Covid-19 synptoms. Or even flu symptoms.   

For the UK, I leave you with a longer quotation by Prof. John Lee a recently retired professor of pathology and a former NHS consultant pathologist.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

But there’s another, potentially even more serious problem: the way that deaths are recorded. If someone dies of a respiratory infection in the UK, the specific cause of the infection is not usually recorded, unless the illness is a rare ‘notifiable disease’. So the vast majority of respiratory deaths in the UK are recorded as bronchopneumonia, pneumonia, old age or a similar designation. We don’t really test for flu, or other seasonal infections. If the patient has, say, cancer, motor neurone disease or another serious disease, this will be recorded as the cause of death, even if the final illness was a respiratory infection. This means UK certifications normally under-record deaths due to respiratory infections.

Now look at what has happened since the emergence of Covid-19. The list of notifiable diseases has been updated. This list — as well as containing smallpox (which has been extinct for many years) and conditions such as anthrax, brucellosis, plague and rabies (which most UK doctors will never see in their entire careers) — has now been amended to include Covid-19. But not flu. That means every positive test for Covid-19 must be notified, in a way that it just would not be for flu or most other infections.

In the current climate, anyone with a positive test for Covid-19 will certainly be known to clinical staff looking after them: if any of these patients dies, staff will have to record the Covid-19 designation on the death certificate — contrary to usual practice for most infections of this kind. There is a big difference between Covid-19 causing death, and Covid-19 being found in someone who died of other causes. Making Covid-19 notifiable might give the appearance of it causing increasing numbers of deaths, whether this is true or not. It might appear far more of a killer than flu, simply because of the way deaths are recorded.



Isn’t it obvious not everyone who dies is tested?  If a patient is exhibiting Covid-19 symptoms and they perish it seems sensible to presume they died of it,and to carry out contact tracing and all. Given the limited resources(testing kits) it seems wasteful testing dead bodies for purposes of record keeping and nothing else.

Wuhan revised their dead upwards and I’m reading UK nursing home deaths may be 7K and not 1400 as reported.

Nobody really gains in reporting these deaths unless you can show me how

Offline vooke

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #136 on: April 20, 2020, 05:38:18 PM »
You are clinging to straws, shopping for lone ‘authorities’ to bolster your irrational views.

The US is careful to distinguish between CONFIRMED deaths and PRESUMED deaths. This makes sense especially given the delays in mass testing. Every single day they test thousands positive which means there are many more who may have succumbed before testing.

I walked you through CDC guidelines. They are the same for ALL diseases or causes of death and not just Covid-19.


It’s about time you educated me what is to be gained in reporting these deaths. Are there Democrat moles in each and all facets of American health system out to embarrass Trump? Trump and all his advisors have absolutely no problem with the figures. In fact, he lauded the meticulous records. He is not complaining.

And finally, I scraped through interwebs for any alternative suggestions by Dr. Lee and I can’t find any.

Fortunately not everyone has such a cavalier attitude towards data collection especially when such data is used to declare pandemic and shut down economies, lockdown daily life and have de facto haouse arrest for millions. And all the while "we are waiting for vaccine....."

Secondly, that "simple act" of declaring 4k deaths as presumed Covid-19 after the fact raises a lot of questions. Serious ones. Like for example, if indeed these deaths were/are "excess deaths" (meaning they surpass average number of expected  deaths with that period), how come no one noticed? And don't tell me 4k excess deaths in NY would not be noticed or invite a lot of question and worry from State government, hospitals and federal governments and hosts of other government agencies. Another important question is, since these 4k deaths didn't happen within an hour or a day, what was recorded before as the cause? And why change from that to Covid-19?
And please don't give us that "if someone exhibit Covid-19 symptoms then it is reasonable to register such a death as a result of Covid-19..." Because a host of other diseases and conditions have similar symptoms or combination of those symptoms. Check symptoms for Zinc deficiency and compare them with what they say are Covid-19 synptoms. Or even flu symptoms.   

For the UK, I leave you with a longer quotation by Prof. John Lee a recently retired professor of pathology and a former NHS consultant pathologist.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

But there’s another, potentially even more serious problem: the way that deaths are recorded. If someone dies of a respiratory infection in the UK, the specific cause of the infection is not usually recorded, unless the illness is a rare ‘notifiable disease’. So the vast majority of respiratory deaths in the UK are recorded as bronchopneumonia, pneumonia, old age or a similar designation. We don’t really test for flu, or other seasonal infections. If the patient has, say, cancer, motor neurone disease or another serious disease, this will be recorded as the cause of death, even if the final illness was a respiratory infection. This means UK certifications normally under-record deaths due to respiratory infections.

Now look at what has happened since the emergence of Covid-19. The list of notifiable diseases has been updated. This list — as well as containing smallpox (which has been extinct for many years) and conditions such as anthrax, brucellosis, plague and rabies (which most UK doctors will never see in their entire careers) — has now been amended to include Covid-19. But not flu. That means every positive test for Covid-19 must be notified, in a way that it just would not be for flu or most other infections.

In the current climate, anyone with a positive test for Covid-19 will certainly be known to clinical staff looking after them: if any of these patients dies, staff will have to record the Covid-19 designation on the death certificate — contrary to usual practice for most infections of this kind. There is a big difference between Covid-19 causing death, and Covid-19 being found in someone who died of other causes. Making Covid-19 notifiable might give the appearance of it causing increasing numbers of deaths, whether this is true or not. It might appear far more of a killer than flu, simply because of the way deaths are recorded.



Isn’t it obvious not everyone who dies is tested?  If a patient is exhibiting Covid-19 symptoms and they perish it seems sensible to presume they died of it,and to carry out contact tracing and all. Given the limited resources(testing kits) it seems wasteful testing dead bodies for purposes of record keeping and nothing else.

Wuhan revised their dead upwards and I’m reading UK nursing home deaths may be 7K and not 1400 as reported.

Nobody really gains in reporting these deaths unless you can show me how
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline vooke

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #137 on: April 28, 2020, 03:17:10 AM »
This is our worst case scenario,and I’m starting to think that even this may be too much

?s=21
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #138 on: April 28, 2020, 07:09:33 AM »
People are dying in Northern Nigeria. At least 600 so far and Nigerias gov aren't even testing.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: African governments are overreacting to Covid-19 Pandemic
« Reply #139 on: April 28, 2020, 03:05:02 PM »
People are dying in Northern Nigeria. At least 600 so far and Nigerias gov aren't even testing.

I could buy the poor data collection angle.  But if covid-19 in Africa is anything like in the higher latitudes we’d be seeing bodies in number.  Africa is looking like a case of the response hurting themselves more than the perceived threat.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman