Author Topic: It’s time to restructure the presidency, it’s the cause of our problems By RAO  (Read 15519 times)

Offline Nefertiti

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You perceive my casual observations as screaming due to the internal aversion to Raila critics. The things you say about Ruto you have been at it for years with no consequence. Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology or give lectures. That's Raila style which has gotten him nowhere. Left and right western "gold" standard don't mean much to poor Kenyans. Ruto needs only a Marshall Plan or vision of how to raise Kenya to upper middle income. That needs basic economic planning and efficiency to execute, not political ideology.

Why are you screaming as if anybody has tried to stop you from criticizing Raila. You are just parroting things about Raila that people have been saying for years. Why do you think I care.

You can dissect Ruto's ideology as corruption, looting, dictatorship, etc as you wish. We'll do the same with Raila's ideology of duplicity and deceit.

And I do not want to, you can just continue debating yourself.

I thought we were talking about Raila's suggested changes and the leaders involved. You don't make the rules here Kichwa.

Robina. You are all over the place now and its impossible to debate with you.  I thought we were talking about ideology. 

Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".

Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which  is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.

How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.

Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.

He has to have an ideology.  Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all.  He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili.  One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.

His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.

To quote Ekwe Ethuro, URP spokesman, circa April 2012: "We will be known as the Republicans of Kenya."

No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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bitmask... catch

13 JANUARY 2012   The Star (Nairobi)
Ruto to Run On Family Values Platform
http://allafrica.com/stories/201201160015.html

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By Mosoku Geoffrey
Eldoret North MP William Ruto will be campaigning on a platform of upholding family values. The United Republican Party which is Ruto's party of choice for the presidential race, stands against abortion and same sex marriages.

The party considers marriage to be only that between a man and a woman and will propagate the sancity of life which they say begins at conception. Its policies will be guided by religious teachings and African customs. "We respect the family as the basic unit of a nation. We subscribe to the family values based on the African principles, especially marriage between a man and woman and the sanctity of life from conception," Turkana Central MP Ekwe Ethuro said in a statement read on behalf of the 25 MPs including Ruto, Cabinet minister Chirau Mwakwere who attended the URP meeting.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.

He has to have an ideology.  Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all.  He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili.  One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.

His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.

No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.

I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure.  To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power.  That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.

So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology.  How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable?  After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world.  Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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bitmask... catch

13 JANUARY 2012   The Star (Nairobi)
Ruto to Run On Family Values Platform
http://allafrica.com/stories/201201160015.html

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By Mosoku Geoffrey
Eldoret North MP William Ruto will be campaigning on a platform of upholding family values. The United Republican Party which is Ruto's party of choice for the presidential race, stands against abortion and same sex marriages.

The party considers marriage to be only that between a man and a woman and will propagate the sancity of life which they say begins at conception. Its policies will be guided by religious teachings and African customs. "We respect the family as the basic unit of a nation. We subscribe to the family values based on the African principles, especially marriage between a man and woman and the sanctity of life from conception," Turkana Central MP Ekwe Ethuro said in a statement read on behalf of the 25 MPs including Ruto, Cabinet minister Chirau Mwakwere who attended the URP meeting.

Thanks.  So he is against abortion, gay rights and those kind of things.  Surely that is not all there is to the hustler.  Those are the public views of like 100% of politicians in Kenya
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.

He has to have an ideology.  Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all.  He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili.  One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.

His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.

No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.

I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure.  To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power.  That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.

So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology.  How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable?  After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world.  Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?

Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.

Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kichwa

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Robina, stop being a Ruto apologist. Even Pundit does not apologize for him as much as you have been since that incident on your way to Damascus.

The 2010 constitution which Ruto must take the oath to defend should he become president is 100% based on the liberal political ideology. You can even say that our constitution is Liberal (left of center).   I therefore believe that someone who is not a liberal is disqualified from being the president of Kenya because they cannot be anti-liberalism and still take the oath to defend it.
   
Ruto also claims to be digital/modern/young and western educated. I would therefore assume he is liberal because all western education is based on liberal values. We are therefore assuming that he is liberal and all we want him to do is to define himself in the liberal spectrum of left to right. In other words, we are assuming that he believes in democracy, civil liberties, freedoms of speech, association, free market economy,etc.   He should therefore feel comfortable articulating his political ideology using international gold standard language for liberal political ideology.   

There are more than enough Kenyans who understand these political terminologies who are interested in knowing Ruto's political ideology and therefore he should not hide in the crap that  "Kenya is not mature" . The constitution demands that a president must hold a college degree even though most Kenyans do not have a college degree. I guess the rationale for that is because the president who is required to uphold the constitution,  needs to have some basic understanding of the liberal concepts that the new Kitiba is based on.

The notion that the left/right  political ideology definition is a straight jacket is a copout.  There is enough room along the liberal spectrum to accommodate everybody. Moreover, if someone does not believe in the liberalism, then he is not only disqualified to be the president of Kenya under the current constitution and the more reason why we should demand leaders to articulate their political ideologies.  Those who are not running for office like your nanny are exempt. 


Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.

He has to have an ideology.  Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all.  He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili.  One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.

His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.

No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.

I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure.  To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power.  That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.

So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology.  How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable?  After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world.  Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?

Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.

Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Nefertiti

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Nice speech. It's not unusual for an Ivy League lawyer like yourself to imagine a layman - mama mboga, boda boda rider, shoe shiner, etc - understand or even care about such jargon. While all they care about is the  price of diesel, kanjo rates, soko ya mboga. A basic plan for easing their life situation suffices. Hii ideology ni mnyama gani tena?

Ati non-liberals are disqualified? That would be the 99% conservative, tribal, antigay Kenyans. 8)

Robina, stop being a Ruto apologist. Even Pundit does not apologize for him as much as you have been since that incident on your way to Damascus.

The 2010 constitution which Ruto must take the oath to defend should he become president is 100% based on the liberal political ideology. You can even say that our constitution is Liberal (left of center).   I therefore believe that someone who is not a liberal is disqualified from being the president of Kenya because they cannot be anti-liberalism and still take the oath to defend it.
   
Ruto also claims to be digital/modern/young and western educated. I would therefore assume he is liberal because all western education is based on liberal values. We are therefore assuming that he is liberal and all we want him to do is to define himself in the liberal spectrum of left to right. In other words, we are assuming that he believes in democracy, civil liberties, freedoms of speech, association, free market economy,etc.   He should therefore feel comfortable articulating his political ideology using international gold standard language for liberal political ideology.   

There are more than enough Kenyans who understand these political terminologies who are interested in knowing Ruto's political ideology and therefore he should not hide in the crap that  "Kenya is not mature" . The constitution demands that a president must hold a college degree even though most Kenyans do not have a college degree. I guess the rationale for that is because the president who is required to uphold the constitution,  needs to have some basic understanding of the liberal concepts that the new Kitiba is based on.

The notion that the left/right  political ideology definition is a straight jacket is a copout.  There is enough room along the liberal spectrum to accommodate everybody. Moreover, if someone does not believe in the liberalism, then he is not only disqualified to be the president of Kenya under the current constitution and the more reason why we should demand leaders to articulate their political ideologies.  Those who are not running for office like your nanny are exempt. 


Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.

He has to have an ideology.  Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all.  He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili.  One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.

His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.

No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.

I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure.  To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power.  That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.

So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology.  How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable?  After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world.  Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?

Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.

Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kichwa

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Robina, there is really no need to be personal-I have never seen the inside of an Ivy league classroom nor a law school classroom.

What I meant was that none liberals (lower case l) are disqualified from the presidency of Kenya because they cannot defend a constitution like ours which is purely based on a liberal political ideology. liberals can be Liberal (left of Center) or Conservative (right of center) but they all believe in the liberal political ideology which is grounded on civil liberties, democracy, equality, justice, free market, freedom of speech, freedom of association, etc.

In the US and most western European countries, all political parties are liberals in their ideology but the Democrats in the US and the labor party in the UK are Liberals (upper case L). 

It is therefore important for us to know Ruto's views on the core values of the liberal political thought to gauge whether he can defend the constitution or NOT.

Nice speech. It's not unusual for an Ivy League lawyer like yourself to imagine a layman - mama mboga, boda boda rider, shoe shiner, etc - understand or even care about such jargon. While all they care about is the  price of diesel, kanjo rates, soko ya mboga. A basic plan for easing their life situation suffices. Hii ideology ni mnyama gani tena?

Ati non-liberals are disqualified? That would be the 99% conservative, tribal, antigay Kenyans. 8)

Robina, stop being a Ruto apologist. Even Pundit does not apologize for him as much as you have been since that incident on your way to Damascus.

The 2010 constitution which Ruto must take the oath to defend should he become president is 100% based on the liberal political ideology. You can even say that our constitution is Liberal (left of center).   I therefore believe that someone who is not a liberal is disqualified from being the president of Kenya because they cannot be anti-liberalism and still take the oath to defend it.
   
Ruto also claims to be digital/modern/young and western educated. I would therefore assume he is liberal because all western education is based on liberal values. We are therefore assuming that he is liberal and all we want him to do is to define himself in the liberal spectrum of left to right. In other words, we are assuming that he believes in democracy, civil liberties, freedoms of speech, association, free market economy,etc.   He should therefore feel comfortable articulating his political ideology using international gold standard language for liberal political ideology.   

There are more than enough Kenyans who understand these political terminologies who are interested in knowing Ruto's political ideology and therefore he should not hide in the crap that  "Kenya is not mature" . The constitution demands that a president must hold a college degree even though most Kenyans do not have a college degree. I guess the rationale for that is because the president who is required to uphold the constitution,  needs to have some basic understanding of the liberal concepts that the new Kitiba is based on.

The notion that the left/right  political ideology definition is a straight jacket is a copout.  There is enough room along the liberal spectrum to accommodate everybody. Moreover, if someone does not believe in the liberalism, then he is not only disqualified to be the president of Kenya under the current constitution and the more reason why we should demand leaders to articulate their political ideologies.  Those who are not running for office like your nanny are exempt. 


Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.

He has to have an ideology.  Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all.  He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili.  One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.

His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.

No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.

I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure.  To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power.  That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.

So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology.  How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable?  After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world.  Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?

Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.

Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Nefertiti

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Well, Ruto is not here Kichwa and as his nominal supporter I'm telling you I see no need for these alien concepts. I know enough about Ruto and our politicians to make up my mind. Obviously he's not a Communist nor a dictator. Regardless, Raila pushed the disqualified line following Ruto's opposition to the new constitution in 2010 and Kenyatta's lukewarm support. Kenyans didn't seem bothered so my sentiments are based on reality.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kichwa

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I know Ruto is not here and you do not have to feel obligated to respond on his behalf.  If the concepts I am talking about are alien then Our constitution is alien too because it is 100% based on those "alien" concepts such as, civil liberties, free market, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of association, justice, equality, etc. I think you have lost your bearings completely.

Well, Ruto is not here Kichwa and as his nominal supporter I'm telling you I see no need for these alien concepts. I know enough about Ruto and our politicians to make up my mind. Obviously he's not a Communist nor a dictator. Regardless, Raila pushed the disqualified line following Ruto's opposition to the new constitution in 2010 and Kenyatta's lukewarm support. Kenyans didn't seem bothered so my sentiments are based on reality.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Nefertiti

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Well, only your concepts and demands are alien not the Kenyan constitution. The man you claim is disqualified is the Deputy President and a leading contender for the presidency. Which means Kenyans don't care about ideology and other things you think make a good leader.

I can see Pundit lost bearing too on this subject. It's one of those mzungu concepts that mean zilch in Kenya.

I know Ruto is not here and you do not have to feel obligated to respond on his behalf.  If the concepts I am talking about are alien then Our constitution is alien too because it is 100% based on those "alien" concepts such as, civil liberties, free market, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of association, justice, equality, etc. I think you have lost your bearings completely.

Well, Ruto is not here Kichwa and as his nominal supporter I'm telling you I see no need for these alien concepts. I know enough about Ruto and our politicians to make up my mind. Obviously he's not a Communist nor a dictator. Regardless, Raila pushed the disqualified line following Ruto's opposition to the new constitution in 2010 and Kenyatta's lukewarm support. Kenyans didn't seem bothered so my sentiments are based on reality.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nowayhaha

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When did Robina change , she was speaking truth here

You told us Uhuru is a lazy drunkard and a crack addict, that he and Ruto do nothing but loot. Raila would cleanse out the mess. Today you are okay with all that because your hero Raila joined the party. That's all good but at least spare us the reform line it's too cheap... cos this is not dotcom.

This is all about stopping Ruto with the motorcade as a bonus.

Stop being petty-what do you really think you achieve by calling me a worshipper-do not turn this into dot.com.  Everybody can haul insults. discuss the merits.