Bittertruth,kam hiya!

[vooke]

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Do you ever take drugs for medical purposes?

[bittertruth]

vooke, I am in hiatus but not sleep drunk.
And yes I take drugs when sick.
Now I know you will ask " why cant your Faith heal you?" Just as Pharisees asked stupid questions.
Testing Jesus, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority.

[vooke]

When do you exercise 'by his stripes I am healed' if when you are sick you resort to chemicals?

vooke, I am in hiatus but not sleep drunk.
And yes I take drugs when sick.
Now I know you will ask " why cant your Faith heal you?" Just as Pharisees asked stupid questions.
Testing Jesus, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority.

[bittertruth]

vooke
Its wrong to think that Prayer and Faith Vs Doctor and Medicine are mutually exclusive negro.
I go to hospital by faith and am healed by Faith.

The fact that God can and does perform miracles of healing does not mean we should not seek the help of individuals who possess the knowledge and skill to assist us.

Negro, If your car is damaged, do you take it to a mechanic or wait for God to perform a miracle and heal your car?

When do you exercise 'by his stripes I am healed' if when you are sick you resort to chemicals?

vooke, I am in hiatus but not sleep drunk.
And yes I take drugs when sick.
Now I know you will ask " why cant your Faith heal you?" Just as Pharisees asked stupid questions.
Testing Jesus, they demanded that he show them a miraculous sign from heaven to prove his authority.

[vooke]

Christians regaining they health through chemicals is no miracle, otherwise satanists/atheists regaining health through the same is equally miraculous

I take my ride to a mechanic instead of church/God BECAUSE I DON'T EXPECT GOD DO IT, and once my mechanic sorts me, I don't claim the car was repaired by faith! The reason is that's pure nonsense and vooke is terribly allergic to nonsense and BS

vooke
Its wrong to think that Prayer and Faith Vs Doctor and Medicine are mutually exclusive negro.
I go to hospital by faith and am healed by Faith.

The fact that God can and does perform miracles of healing does not mean we should not seek the help of individuals who possess the knowledge and skill to assist us.

Negro, If your car is damaged, do you take it to a mechanic or wait for God to perform a miracle and heal your car?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

This sounds.  Complicated.

[bittertruth]

Christians regaining they health through chemicals is no miracle,

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Christians regaining they health through chemicals is no miracle,

Between a moderately skilled neurosurgeon who prays more than operates vs a top notch one who does not.  Which one will you choose?

[bittertruth]

I think the writing is on the wall negro. isn't it?

Christians regaining they health through chemicals is no miracle,

Between a moderately skilled neurosurgeon who prays more than operates vs a top notch one who does not.  Which one will you choose?

[vooke]

Negro,
This may be the controversial section but we don't check our brains at the door.

 YOU ARE SELDOM AFFORDED THE LUXURY OF CHOICE BETWEEN BORN AGAIN MEDICS & PAGANS ESPECIALLY IN KENIA

What if it's either a non-Christian specialist OR nothing as is oft the case?

And are you saying that a born again Christian specialist  is more likely to be more effective than a pagan?

Christians regaining they health through chemicals is no miracle,

[bittertruth]

vooke, Just a word of advise for you and company.
Avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. That's Titus 3:9

Negro,
This may be the controversial section but we don't check our brains at the door.

 YOU ARE SELDOM AFFORDED THE LUXURY OF CHOICE BETWEEN BORN AGAIN MEDICS & PAGANS ESPECIALLY IN KENIA

What if it's either a non-Christian specialist OR nothing as is oft the case?

And are you saying that a born again Christian specialist  is more likely to be more effective than a pagan?

Christians regaining they health through chemicals is no miracle,

[vooke]

That's the standard response to indefensible positions.
We are not quarreling about the Law

vooke, Just a word of advise for you and company.
Avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. That's Titus 3:9

[bittertruth]

vooke,
Honestly I didn't think if a guy with Godly mind  and character would argue like you.

According to you medicine proves that God does not heal.

Science/medicine has limitations, it is naturalistic in nature. God is supernatural, which puts him outside of nature. Science cannot observe the supernatural, but that does not disprove the supernatural.

[kadame]

vooke,
Honestly I didn't think if a guy with Godly mind  and character would argue like you.

According to you medicine proves that God does not heal.

Science/medicine has limitations, it is naturalistic in nature. God is supernatural, which puts him outside of nature. Science cannot observe the supernatural, but that does not disprove the supernatural.

Indeed it is God who heals through the doctor, just like it is God who provides everything else in life,

Psalm 127 New International Version (NIV)

A song of ascents. Of Solomon.




However, the argument vooke is making, is that it is not FAITH. In other words, these are gifts you receive freely, things that happen regardless of the person's disposition, which is why it benefits everyone. Like Jesus said,  "He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust" and in another place, "Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?"

[bittertruth]

Kadame,
vooke is agnostic.  He proclaims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
God hates Hypocrites.

However, the argument vooke is making, is that it is not FAITH.

[kadame]

Kadame,
vooke is agnostic.  He proclaims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
God hates Hypocrites.

However, the argument vooke is making, is that it is not FAITH.

He is not agnostic, I've been arguing with him for a year, I know the negro  You two are talking past each other. He is trying to emphasize that it is not your Faith that provides you your ordinary everyday things, while you are emphasizing that it is God who does so. God and faith are not the same thing. God lives whether you believe or not, whether you trust or not. And most of his gifts to us everyday, they come to us the way the gift of life came to us, free and without our consent! There are times that our faith is influential in what God does for us, but most of the time, most things you have, if you take an inventory of your life or even of your day from morning to evening, you will find that God gives them to you the way a mother breastfeeds her baby, completely free.

[chiethakuodha]

Faith without works is dead!
You will not be able to discern a praying surgeon going by the number of pastors in today's world.  Their deeds precede them as you perhaps have noticed lately.
All in all God is our healer.  I believe the surgeons have been given the brains to do what they do by God for the good of all mankind.  Halleluiah!

[vooke]

God wants us to use our brains. Brains is just about the only tangible difference between man and the rest of creation. Christians who use their brains 247 and then suspend the same when it comes to scriptures are hypocrites. You can't be an advanced biped primate at the office and then a mollusk wielding a King James Bible.

Every position you have assumed, I have exposed its hollowness using scriptures. SO you are free to characterize me as agnostic,atheist,satanist,Illuminati, Freemason,carnal,secular or whatever but what is clear is you are clinging to beliefs you have zero scriptural basis for. You are adept at regurgitating mantras recited in your church or you picked off a book sir! That's not wisdom by any definition

And you have consistently misrepresented me. I would have expected an intelligent computer programmer to have the decency or UNDERSTANDING my simple statements.

If I have kidney failure and am staring at death, there are two options, pray and God gives me a fresh pair of kidneys just as He can, or get a transplant, a new kidney from another negro. Both of these would secure me a new lease of life.

A kidney transplant is not a miracle. Why?  I still lost my bad kidney not to mention that another satanist/Muslim undergoing the same procedure would be equally better despite lacking the requisite faith in Jesus Christ the Master Phycisian.

It goes without saying that medical science can't be equated to Biblical New Testament Apostolic miracles, signs and wonders that FOLLOW THEM WHO BELIEVE seeing they are readily manifested amongst those who don't believe!

God knows how my Subaru works even better that Fuji Heavy Industries manufacturer. If I take it to Subaru Kenya and they repaired it an restored it completely, I would be mad to claim that God repaired my car! God can repair it but He didn't, it's some incense and nonsense burning bahindis who did!

vooke,
Honestly I didn't think if a guy with Godly mind  and character would argue like you.

According to you medicine proves that God does not heal.

Science/medicine has limitations, it is naturalistic in nature. God is supernatural, which puts him outside of nature. Science cannot observe the supernatural, but that does not disprove the supernatural.

[vooke]

kadame,
this argument sprang from bittertruth's assertion that TRUE Christians should NEVER be poor unless they chose to be poor. Am sure you disagree(d) with this.

He went on and insisted that healing too is part and parcel of our portion in CHrist. I again differed. Healing is real, miracles are real but like poverty, some Christians go through sickness and they never recover through prayers. Scriptural examples abound. Paul,Epaphroditus,Trophimus and Timothy. My point is there is no magic formula of FAITH+HEALING VERSES=GUARANTEED HEALING. God heals wherever,whoever and whenever He wills not when we command him to

I started this thread to test bittertruth's faith. Is he all scriptures/faith bila action?

The test is so simple, it hurts explaining it. If  FAITH+HEALING VERSES=GUARANTEED HEALING works, then no sane believer would burn cash in hospitals, just claim it and gerrit. If it doesn't or bittertruth's faith is fickle, he would be soaking his body in generic drugs from India once in a while or consistently if he has chronic illness

bittertruth will not abandon the false heretical formula  FAITH+HEALING VERSES=GUARANTEED HEALING nor will he admit to fickle faith not enough to keep doctors away. So he resorts to name calling as well as adopting an even more illogical stance that medical science is in the Miraculous league. Tuko hapo sasa.

Note some medical procedures are quite risky and believers usually pray to survive them and hope the hospital will not flash the indemnity form in their face when they go to collect the body. But calling a cornea transplant healing blindness is really stretching hallucination to the max

He is not agnostic, I've been arguing with him for a year, I know the negro  You two are talking past each other. He is trying to emphasize that it is not your Faith that provides you your ordinary everyday things, while you are emphasizing that it is God who does so. God and faith are not the same thing. God lives whether you believe or not, whether you trust or not. And most of his gifts to us everyday, they come to us the way the gift of life came to us, free and without our consent! There are times that our faith is influential in what God does for us, but most of the time, most things you have, if you take an inventory of your life or even of your day from morning to evening, you will find that God gives them to you the way a mother breastfeeds her baby, completely free.

[kadame]

Yes, vooke, going to Hosi and other such, that's providence, but it is NOT miracles. Miracles refers to something that defies nature. Providence does not have to be supernatural but rather God provides through the normal course/laws of nature. A miracle is like being cured of something doctors can not heal through medicine or other procedures.