Kenyans now know their rights

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http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-193148/post-bank-sdas-may-skip-work-sabbath

THREE Seventh Day Adventist Church members employed by a bank have won a battle after the High Court ruled that their rights were violated by the employer compelling them to work on Saturdays.http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-193148/post-bank-sdas-may-skip-work-sabbath#sthash.HyI4O9wH.dpuf

[kwesta]

Back in school we used to have community work and general cleanness on Saturday. Those who were wise enough were usually advised to register as Adventists as soon as we stepped into school. This normally saved us the double tragedy of working on satuday, and of attending boring church services on sunday.

I bet suddenly you'll see the rise of number of SDAs in Kenya.

[GeeMail]

Trust Kenyans! I can tell you this for free. It's not easy being SDA. The problem is that faking it will expose you to the truth. Would you risk accepting it?

Back in school we used to have community work and general cleanness on Saturday. Those who were wise enough were usually advised to register as Adventists as soon as we stepped into school. This normally saved us the double tragedy of working on satuday, and of attending boring church services on sunday.

I bet suddenly you'll see the rise of number of SDAs in Kenya.

[Kichwambaya]

If the numbers of SDA adherants rise seeking Saturdays off, then the employers can also step it up a notch by requiring them to do some work on Sundays or force them to take off on Sato without pay.  The employer is not obligated to pay you for your religious days off.  Also, before hiring, the employer can make it plain that the job requires one to work on Saturdays and therefore applicants who cannot work on Sato's for whatever reasons need not apply.

[kadame]

If the numbers of SDA adherants rise seeking Saturdays off, then the employers can also step it up a notch by requiring them to do some work on Sundays or force them to take off on Sato without pay.  The employer is not obligated to pay you for your religious days off.  Also, before hiring, the employer can make it plain that the job requires one to work on Saturdays and therefore applicants who cannot work on Sato's for whatever reasons need not apply.

That could very easily become discrimination against SDAs. Asking them to compensate on Sundays makes sense, but saying "No one unwilling to work on Saturday need apply" can be very easily seen as "Practicing Jews and SDAs need not apply". No country should allow such kinds of practices. Unless its for small contractual jobs. Or unless working Saturdays is a crucial element of the kind of business involved. Most reasonable employers in Kenya usually excuse their SDA employees on Saturdays. My first job, I got excused without my knowledge because my boss assumed I was Adventist because he knew my mom and she's Adventist. When I told him I'm Catholic, the exemption disappeared mara that that. In a country like Kenya where the majority have their day of worship off by default, special accommodation must be made for religious minorities.

[Georgesoros]

Ride on Kairetu.
Its discrimination based on religion if religious accomodation is not made.

If the numbers of SDA adherants rise seeking Saturdays off, then the employers can also step it up a notch by requiring them to do some work on Sundays or force them to take off on Sato without pay.  The employer is not obligated to pay you for your religious days off.  Also, before hiring, the employer can make it plain that the job requires one to work on Saturdays and therefore applicants who cannot work on Sato's for whatever reasons need not apply.

That could very easily become discrimination against SDAs. Asking them to compensate on Sundays makes sense, but saying "No one unwilling to work on Saturday need apply" can be very easily seen as "Practicing Jews and SDAs need not apply". No country should allow such kinds of practices. Unless its for small contractual jobs. Or unless working Saturdays is a crucial element of the kind of business involved. Most reasonable employers in Kenya usually excuse their SDA employees on Saturdays. My first job, I got excused without my knowledge because my boss assumed I was Adventist because he knew my mom and she's Adventist. When I told him I'm Catholic, the exemption disappeared mara that that. In a country like Kenya where the majority have their day of worship off by default, special accommodation must be made for religious minorities.

[Kichwambaya]

Not really, unless you say that "those who are unable to work for religious reasons need not apply".  If you say "anybody who cannot work on Sato's for "whatever reason" need not apply then that is not religious discrimination since you are not targeting any religion.   

If the numbers of SDA adherants rise seeking Saturdays off, then the employers can also step it up a notch by requiring them to do some work on Sundays or force them to take off on Sato without pay.  The employer is not obligated to pay you for your religious days off.  Also, before hiring, the employer can make it plain that the job requires one to work on Saturdays and therefore applicants who cannot work on Sato's for whatever reasons need not apply.

That could very easily become discrimination against SDAs. Asking them to compensate on Sundays makes sense, but saying "No one unwilling to work on Saturday need apply" can be very easily seen as "Practicing Jews and SDAs need not apply". No country should allow such kinds of practices. Unless its for small contractual jobs. Or unless working Saturdays is a crucial element of the kind of business involved. Most reasonable employers in Kenya usually excuse their SDA employees on Saturdays. My first job, I got excused without my knowledge because my boss assumed I was Adventist because he knew my mom and she's Adventist. When I told him I'm Catholic, the exemption disappeared mara that that. In a country like Kenya where the majority have their day of worship off by default, special accommodation must be made for religious minorities.

[RV Pundit]

Maybe muslims should demand friday off. What an employer need to do is to agree on min working hrs per week. This nonsense you'll not see in a developed country like say US..where wage systems is really advanced. You get paid for hours clocked.

[kadame]

Kichwa, I disagree. Discrimination does not need to be explicitly announced, it can be construed from the actual circumstances. Which is why I said, except small contractual jobs and businesses that have working on Saturdays as a crucial element of what they do. Otherwise, anybody can practice discrimination if they just use clever wording. Why would an employer say that anybody unwilling to work specifically on Saturdays should not apply? Why do they need to protect Saturday and not Sunday? If it unfairly burdens religious minorities and cannot be explained by the nature of the business itself, it cannot be justified just because the employer discriminates without intending to or announcing it. A small Hospital that can only afford to hire two doctors might make such a requirement, but why would Barclays bank? The effect is to isolate a religious minority unfairly. And considering the profit-minded mode of formal employment in Kenya, you can bet they would all follow suit--employers-- and soon a faithful SDA cannot find employment in Kenya's formal sector. As a matter of public policy and basic justice, such a situation should not be permitted.

[kadame]

Maybe muslims should demand friday off. What an employer need to do is to agree on min working hrs per week. This nonsense you'll not see in a developed country like say US..where wage systems is really advanced. You get paid for hours clocked.

To be fair, Muslims do not have a religious obligation not to work on Fridays, like Jews and SDAs do for Saturday. It's just the day they meet at mosque together. They go from their businesses to Mosque and then right back to their businesses right after, go to Eastleigh and observe. The only way you know the day is special is the white kanzu. If it was vital that they stay from work on that day, Muslims would have long been fighting for it and I would support them.

[GeeMail]

Kairetu I really commend your defense of SDA and your wholesome understanding of human rights. I'm a bit surprised that people here can argue against such a fair judgment. Where is their sense of justice?

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Postbank-workers-win-case-over-day-of-prayer/-/1056/2481006/-/xl0uu0/-/index.html

[GeeMail]

Muslims do get Friday off in most workplaces I know. They also get lunch hours and lighter duties if work is physical during Ramadan. What I know is that Islam does not demand 24hr worship like SDA demands Friday sunset to Saturday sunset as per 4th Commandment. It is still discriminatory for employers to ask SDAs to work extra hours just because they want to be away on Saturday but SDAs are usually more than willing to work extra hours if they are allowed to go to church. It is sad that people are being punished just because they choose to be faithful. Other protestants who do not keep Sabbath are favored because Sunday is a day off everywhere.

Maybe muslims should demand friday off. What an employer need to do is to agree on min working hrs per week. This nonsense you'll not see in a developed country like say US..where wage systems is really advanced. You get paid for hours clocked.

[TheDayTheDollarDies]

Very stupid of the judge...what if i start a religion that requires me to go for fellowship everyday from 8 am to 3pm? Very stupid indeed.

[GeeMail]

Very stupid of the judge...what if i start a religion that requires me to go for fellowship everyday from 8 am to 3pm? Very stupid indeed.

We all know SDA is not founded on ideas wrought by Dollar men. You cannot be justified to punish people just because they choose to follow the 4th commandment requiring the keeping of the Sabbath. Come to think of it. Resting from work and worshiping God for a 24hr period is extremely beneficial for the body, the government, private sector and the environment. Even the pope thinks so even if he got the day completely wrong.
http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=56083

[TheDayTheDollarDies]

Very stupid of the judge...what if i start a religion that requires me to go for fellowship everyday from 8 am to 3pm? Very stupid indeed.

We all know SDA is not founded on ideas wrought by Dollar men. You cannot be justified to punish people just because they choose to follow the 4th commandment requiring the keeping of the Sabbath. Come to think of it. Resting from work and worshiping God for a 24hr period is extremely beneficial for the body, the government, private sector and the environment. Even the pope thinks so even if he got the day completely wrong.
http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=56083

what about a 120 hour body rest? If i start such a religion, will you "Punish me for my religious beliefs?" And i manage to get the days right i.e Monday to Friday?

[RV Pundit]

Any religious nonsense will not sit logically with secular society. Like dollar man has illustrated this is creation of chaos. The world need to advance where religion is really private. We should ban prayers in schools. Ban them in parliament. Ban any cre from schools. Ensure we have a secular society. When it come to saturday or sunday..that should depend on the employee...but essentially it should be an HR work to ensure somebody is ready to work on sunday or saturday if the business need so.

[GeeMail]

RVPundit are you making a hypothetical argument in support of Dollar Man who said he wanted to set up a stupid religion or you're talking reality? We can argue until the cows come home but SDA have a body of knowledge where they draw their beliefs from. What does banning creation and prayer help except to soothe ballooning egos of atheism? What do atheists believe?

Any religious nonsense will not sit logically with secular society. Like dollar man has illustrated this is creation of chaos. The world need to advance where religion is really private. We should ban prayers in schools. Ban them in parliament. Ban any cre from schools. Ensure we have a secular society. When it come to saturday or sunday..that should depend on the employee...but essentially it should be an HR work to ensure somebody is ready to work on sunday or saturday if the business need so.

[RV Pundit]

Religion should be private. It should not be anywhere near any formal system. if you worship a tree or SDA or some stone age sabath...that is your business. Companies should be flexible if there is good cause. That is all. If an office has 10 tree huggers who may do it every morning..the company can start work a little late and possibly plant enough trees for huggers so they can be religiously happy.

The judge should therefore find fault if there was 1) no good cause and 2) parties did not explore other options..like working extra hr every day.

RVPundit are you making a hypothetical argument in support of Dollar Man who said he wanted to set up a stupid religion or you're talking reality? We can argue until the cows come home but SDA have a body of knowledge where they draw their beliefs from. What does banning creation and prayer help except to soothe ballooning egos of atheism? What do atheists believe?

[kadame]

The example given of a religion where no one goes to work, is practically impossible, no wonder it can only be thought about but not found in real life. And if it were possible, the judge would still weigh the respective burdens being placed on the business/employer verses the person's right to practice his religion. There is no way any sane court would force a business to take someone on a charity basis and pay them for doing nothing or for doing significantly below what the job requires. The first is not even a contract. Their right not to be discriminated is way too burdensome on that employer in that case. Its not like courts have no access to common sense, you know.