What happened to all the money we borrowed - Jubilee 1.0 plunder was gargantuan!

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Sound like 19th century Theory. The modern medicine (not industrialization/urbanization) is responsible for poor countries population explosion.

The demographic impact of vaccination/Immunization in 20th century is profound. - and so was the ground breaking discovery of Pencilin in 1928.

 

Industrialization/urbanization encompass modern medicine.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Kipsigis at least have arable land. Somali are dirtpoor ASAL dwellers yet multiply like roaches. Overpopulation is barbarism - need to be exorcised just like ignorance or disease. It education that has aided Kikuyu: Somali are as poor as ever.

Right on point. With Somalis there are two factors that contribute to their above average birth rates 1. Islam and 2. their pro natal culture probably due to their genocidal intra clan feuds. Kipsikis are luckier they got Christianized, more closer to civilization and their land is not a desert so I don't know what holds them from making the demographic transition. They are the more progressive of the Kalenjin sub tribes so its a mystery, also with Kisiis - extremly high birth rate, no land.

[RV Pundit]

Industralization and urbanization started way before(18th century) - and we didn't see dramatic improvement. It improved basically people nutrition and made their lifes better no doubt - but modern medicine - is responsible for 20th century population revolution.

Has Africa industrialized and urbanized? Of course Not - and yet it has seen dramatic population increase. So your whack theory is very old theory - yes agricultural revolution - led to better nutrition and improved pop - and so did industrialization - but birth of modern medicine - esp antiobitics in 1928 was the key point.

 

Industrialization/urbanization encompass modern medicine.

[Nefertiti]

But apart from China - the rest pretty much sorted itself - naturally. It just that development is not instant coffee kind of thing and you need patience. People will over time have less kids without china harsh policies and it's side effect. It has to be natural. The baby boom in Africa is due to medicine and vacination from the west - otherwise before then - nature took care of it - my grandmother use to tell me anybody with four surviving kids was highly regarded their times - people use to do all manner of stunts just to have more kids surviving - witchcraft - changing their names - talisman - name it.

So the Africa baby boom is recent - remove antiobitics and vacinnes - and you have nature taking care of itself.

With modern medicine - there is a lag - but eventually people figure it out - and reduce the kids.

Now big mistake you're making - reducing population is not a silver bullet - otherwise Africa of 18th century which was so unpopulated - the white man found swatches of empty land - and occuppied - was not rich.

People had 2-3 kids but live brutish live. There are so many things that need to go right for a country to develop - it's like cooking a meal - lack of salt could make food so tasteless you'd probably declare salt is the KEY - but it isn't.

  i know i rant. I am surprised bitmask has not thrown in a low punch and usual sanctimony.

[Nefertiti]

Right on point. With Somalis there are two factors that contribute to their above average birth rates 1. Islam and 2. their pro natal culture probably due to their genocidal intra clan feuds. Kipsikis are luckier they got Christianized, more closer to civilization and their land is not a desert so I don't know what holds them from making the demographic transition. They are the more progressive of the Kalenjin sub tribes so its a mystery, also with Kisiis - extremly high birth rate, no land.

Muslims get lots of flak for their over- reproduction especially in Europe. Despite immigration they barely integrate culturally and kids remain a communal responsibility. Christian or animist immigrants from Africa quickly change their ways and get few kids - 1 to 3 - only slightly above mzungu. Molenbeek and Edgware-Islington have exploding minaret count that really rattle racist whites especially supremacists.

[RV Pundit]

It got much more to do with lack of women rights in muslim societies than religion otherwise if women were empowered; they would choose less children; they are ones who suffer the most; Muslim women and societies with serious patriarchy are the problem - otherwise most women will not want to endure than many births if they know the few kids will survive.

Muslims get lots of flak for their over- reproduction especially in Europe. Despite immigration they barely integrate culturally and kids remain a communal responsibility. Christian or animist immigrants from Africa quickly change their ways and get few kids - 1 to 3 - only slightly above mzungu. Molenbeek and Edgware-Islington have exploding minaret count that really rattle racist whites especially supremacists.

[Nefertiti]

That extreme patriarchy and female enslavement is Islam 101. In most Middle East women don't even vote... in the Sudan they were under punitive Sharia - complete with instant street flogging by moral police - until Bashir was kicked out. It Islam that maintains this as religious justification which is near impossible to defeat cause it state- sanctioned and enforced. Until Iran or Pakistan stop being "Islamic Republic" tough luck empowering women.

It got much more to do with lack of women rights in muslim societies than religion otherwise if women were empowered; they would choose less children; they are ones who suffer the most; Muslim women and societies with serious patriarchy are the problem - otherwise most women will not want to endure than many births if they know the few kids will survive.

Muslims get lots of flak for their over- reproduction especially in Europe. Despite immigration they barely integrate culturally and kids remain a communal responsibility. Christian or animist immigrants from Africa quickly change their ways and get few kids - 1 to 3 - only slightly above mzungu. Molenbeek and Edgware-Islington have exploding minaret count that really rattle racist whites especially supremacists.

[RV Pundit]

Religion is flexible. Islam has thrived for being flexible like christianity. The problem now is extermist muslim financed by Oil - wahabbi of Saudi Arabia - and the likes -otherwise Iran of before - was progressive - and so were many muslim socities. The extermists have their sway thanks to Oil and Isreal.

That extreme patriarchy and female enslavement is Islam 101. In most Middle East women don't even vote... in the Sudan they were under punitive Sharia - complete with instant street flogging by moral police - until Bashir was kicked out. It Islam that maintains this as religious justification which is near impossible to defeat cause it state- sanctioned and enforced. Until Iran or Pakistan stop being "Islamic Republic" tough luck empowering women.

It got much more to do with lack of women rights in muslim societies than religion otherwise if women were empowered; they would choose less children; they are ones who suffer the most; Muslim women and societies with serious patriarchy are the problem - otherwise most women will not want to endure than many births if they know the few kids will survive.

Muslims get lots of flak for their over- reproduction especially in Europe. Despite immigration they barely integrate culturally and kids remain a communal responsibility. Christian or animist immigrants from Africa quickly change their ways and get few kids - 1 to 3 - only slightly above mzungu. Molenbeek and Edgware-Islington have exploding minaret count that really rattle racist whites especially supremacists.