What happened to all the money we borrowed - Jubilee 1.0 plunder was gargantuan!

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

• Tweet

This country is in the hands of an entrenched mafia cartel. We are done!

I believe Kenya is irreformable.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

David Ndii summarizes it it nicely.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

You have to work very hard indeed to impoverish a people and a nation. Left to our devices such as pre colonial era we were prosperous and healthy. The average Kenyan is more hungry now than at any time. Our ancestors never wanted for food. The reason you are seeing mwafrika leaving their countries' in droves is because of this Western created Frankenstein imposed on us called the nation state. A state of anarchy is preferable to most African states.   

[Nefertiti]

Population boom is probably a bigger cause Mwafrika poverty. Anyone with 10 kids they can barely feed is as bad as a corrupt politician.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Population boom is probably a bigger cause Mwafrika poverty. Anyone with 10 kids they can barely feed is as bad as a corrupt politician.

African population explosion gives me nervous fits. Epic die off due to hunger, disease, and conflict is unavoidable. We are going to look bad manze. Why do we like sexing so much? As Moi said, let us take a 2 year sabbatical from intercourse.

[RV Pundit]

Yes it start there; at the micro-family level then cascade up to the national level; this is why development is very hard; not instant coffee thing; because resolving say population takes generation. Kenya is making some progress in that regard; while places like Uganda have not even wrapped their heads around it; Asia is doing well now after taming their population growth.

Having few and well-spaced kids is first step for a family to become prosperous. Every kid you add - you're subdividing your wealth or multiplying(increasing) your poverty.

African remain poor despite economic growth - because chiefly of population growth - not corruption. Even with zero graft - a country will not transform - if population is growing that fast.

All that economic growth is just building more schools, more hospitals, producing more food, to feed, house and clothe more people. Instead of building better schoools, better hospital, better food, to feed , house and clothe the same number of people. There has to be that inflection point. I think it's happen in central kenya - we are not seeing building of say new schools by CDF there - but more better equipping of existing school - but rest of country - it's still pretty much starting new schools and adding new classes to gather for more and more kids.

China big break didn't come from embracing capitalism - but 1 child policy a decade earlier.

Population boom is probably a bigger cause Mwafrika poverty. Anyone with 10 kids they can barely feed is as bad as a corrupt politician.

[KenyanPlato]

Only about 4 well to do tribes are into family planning. The rest are giving birth like rats. In central after two kids you becone a social misfit if people see you with another one. My best friend actually got called out. We were catching up at a choma join in 2005 after 10 years of me  not seeing him. In the group were 2 of my female friends. As soon as he mentioned he had 3 kids they women were on him. They actually told him point blank to stop having more kids it wasnt necessary. It was a shock to me on how bold tjey werr

[Nefertiti]

All of you jokers and ditherers: this why i don't believe in democracy. Indisciplined Mwafrika needs tough love. To me a polygamous pauper deserve public shaming akin to a delinquent - instead you have feasts and dirges now. You may as well feat rapists and thieves. Chinese kind of hardknock law is required: one-child policy, state-sponsored abortion, heavy punishment and shaming for violators. If your neighbor delivers a second kid you're equally guilty by cooption. Once it becomes so painful all those pigs whining about sirkal while nursing 8th pregnancy will promptly get civilized. If you act like a pig you should be treated as one.

[Nefertiti]

Njamba has 3 kids officially - 3 more via secret affairs. Shame

[RV Pundit]

Most people cannot understand why India or China with 1B plus are doing well than Africa. But they don't know in both China and India - family size are smaller than Africa.  In Africa - Arabs North - And Southern Africa (RSA, Namibia, Botswana) have achieved the 2 kids max kid of family that is ideal for getting out of poverty. In Kenya - GEMA - Kikuyu, Embu and Merus - are also nearly there. Nairobi is at ideal 3 family sized household.

The rest of the country requires very serious investment in family planning - education, providing contraceptive, dealing with churches, providing abortion clinic, delaying early marriages and pregnancies'

Once you have 1-2 adults looking care for their own needs and maybe 1 kid each - getting out of poverty is easy! You can feed yourself and a kid without a problem! You can start saving money. But the more kids your add - the deeper you sink into poverty - as your income become shared.

[KenyanPlato]

Njamba has 3 kids officially - 3 more via secret affairs. Shame

Nope, I got two boys. I should have stopped at ZERO my pull out game failed me

[Nefertiti]

Most people cannot understand why India or China with 1B plus are doing well than Africa. But they don't know in both China and India - family size are smaller than Africa.  In Africa - Arabs North - And Southern Africa (RSA, Namibia, Botswana) have achieved the 2 kids max kid of family that is ideal for getting out of poverty. In Kenya - GEMA - Kikuyu, Embu and Merus - are also nearly there. Nairobi is at ideal 3 family sized household.

The rest of the country requires very serious investment in family planning - education, providing contraceptive, dealing with churches, providing abortion clinic, delaying early marriages and pregnancies'

Once you have 1-2 adults looking care for their own needs and maybe 1 kid each - getting out of poverty is easy! You can feed yourself and a kid without a problem! You can start saving money. But the more kids your add - the deeper you sink into poverty - as your income become shared.

Kipsigis and Somali need 30 more years to turn the curve. One-child policy is more effective than that. Basically stop pandering to backwardness disguised as freedom.. it akin to cutting trees or burning forest, or overspeeding or any crime. If it hurt economy for everyone then it should be criminalized. You cannot criminalize poverty but you can criminalize ignorance.

[RV Pundit]

That could work...but generally reality is best teacher..kikuyus use to breed like rats too...but when their kids ended up in kIandutu slums...and land sized reduced to coffin size..they figured it out. It's happening in Kipsigis land..our generation are now getting 1 acre...next generation will get plots. Each family in our village have on average 20 acres - but each family too - has 10 kids - some have 14-15 kids per woman. Kipsigis really gave birth in 80s like the world was dying.

Kipsigis and Somali need 30 more years to turn the curve. One-child policy is more effective than that. Basically stop pandering to backwardness disguised as freedom.. it akin to cutting trees or burning forest, or overspeeding or any crime. If it hurt economy for everyone then it should be criminalized. You cannot criminalize poverty but you can criminalize ignorance.

[Nefertiti]

Kipsigis at least have arable land. Somali are dirtpoor ASAL dwellers yet multiply like roaches. Overpopulation is barbarism - need to be exorcised just like ignorance or disease. It education that has aided Kikuyu: Somali are as poor as ever.

Without individual consequences- jail or heavy fine or shaming - collective suffering does not deter humans. It ironic to shame a prostitute but celebrate broke mother of 10 - the latter is the more irresponsible, more devious member of society. Here the US has zero impunity and for immigrants it at first a chokeful - before you appreciate it. Cause people cannot just scam you without landing on omnipresent FBI radar. If you don't tack your wailing kid in the back and the traffic cams catch a whiff - next thing is huge fine and warning in the mail 😠 😠

One-child or eminent domain or such strictly enforced policy make Chinese what they are. They know there is freedom in the West but they also know it did not drop from the heavens. Folks worked really hard, follow the laws, fight sleaze and such. So they don't flee to America like Robina Development can only be a collective national effort not Raila or Ruto or Big 4. Kids per household is a very real metric which need to be harshly policed - carrots & sticks - like FGM or anti-graft.

That could work...but generally reality is best teacher..kikuyus use to breed like rats too...but when their kids ended up in kIandutu slums...and land sized reduced to coffin size..they figured it out. It's happening in Kipsigis land..our generation are now getting 1 acre...next generation will get plots. Each family in our village have on average 20 acres - but each family too - has 10 kids - some have 14-15 kids per woman. Kipsigis really gave birth in 80s like the world was dying.

[Nefertiti]

To me the best amendment in BBI is about citizen responsibility. Everyone is a brat with rights and privileges but no responsibility. Especially the youth and women who think we are owed this and that. The average Kenyan is a holier-than-thou critic who lives knee-deep in hypocrisy. That it's Uhuru or GoK job to hand them things including prosperity. But they are corrupt, lazy, irresponsible and entitled. There should be no equality beyond the right to life, security, education and basic utilities. You cannot afford housing suck up in Eastlands 6th floor - or Mavoko swamp - that's your worth.

[mankind]

To me the best amendment in BBI is about citizen responsibility. Everyone is a brat with rights and privileges but no responsibility. Especially the youth and women who think we are owed this and that. The average Kenyan is a holier-than-thou critic who lives knee-deep in hypocrisy. That it's Uhuru or GoK job to hand them things including prosperity. But they are corrupt, lazy, irresponsible and entitled. There should be no equality beyond the right to life, security, education and basic utilities. You cannot afford housing suck up in Eastlands 6th floor - or Mavoko swamp - that's your worth.

   Nipate is a very interesting forum.  One day you find someone annoying then you realize the next minute how much you agree with them.  Robina you spoken like the five wise men.  Kenya kuna ushenzi mingi sana pertaining corruption and entitlement.

[RV Pundit]

But apart from China - the rest pretty much sorted itself - naturally. It just that development is not instant coffee kind of thing and you need patience. People will over time have less kids without china harsh policies and it's side effect. It has to be natural. The baby boom in Africa is due to medicine and vacination from the west - otherwise before then - nature took care of it - my grandmother use to tell me anybody with four surviving kids was highly regarded their times - people use to do all manner of stunts just to have more kids surviving - witchcraft - changing their names - talisman - name it.

So the Africa baby boom is recent - remove antiobitics and vacinnes - and you have nature taking care of itself.

With modern medicine - there is a lag - but eventually people figure it out - and reduce the kids.

Now big mistake you're making - reducing population is not a silver bullet - otherwise Africa of 18th century which was so unpopulated - the white man found swatches of empty land - and occuppied - was not rich.

People had 2-3 kids but live brutish live. There are so many things that need to go right for a country to develop - it's like cooking a meal - lack of salt could make food so tasteless you'd probably declare salt is the KEY - but it isn't.

Kipsigis at least have arable land. Somali are dirtpoor ASAL dwellers yet multiply like roaches. Overpopulation is barbarism - need to be exorcised just like ignorance or disease. It education that has aided Kikuyu: Somali are as poor as ever.

Without individual consequences- jail or heavy fine or shaming - collective suffering does not deter humans. It ironic to shame a prostitute but celebrate broke mother of 10 - the latter is the more irresponsible, more devious member of society. Here the US has zero impunity and for immigrants it at first a chokeful - before you appreciate it. Cause people cannot just scam you without landing on omnipresent FBI radar. If you don't tack your wailing kid in the back and the traffic cams catch a whiff - next thing is huge fine and warning in the mail 😠 😠

One-child or eminent domain or such strictly enforced policy make Chinese what they are. They know there is freedom in the West but they also know it did not drop from the heavens. Folks worked really hard, follow the laws, fight sleaze and such. So they don't flee to America like Robina Development can only be a collective national effort not Raila or Ruto or Big 4. Kids per household is a very real metric which need to be harshly policed - carrots & sticks - like FGM or anti-graft.

That could work...but generally reality is best teacher..kikuyus use to breed like rats too...but when their kids ended up in kIandutu slums...and land sized reduced to coffin size..they figured it out. It's happening in Kipsigis land..our generation are now getting 1 acre...next generation will get plots. Each family in our village have on average 20 acres - but each family too - has 10 kids - some have 14-15 kids per woman. Kipsigis really gave birth in 80s like the world was dying.

[Nefertiti]

To me the best amendment in BBI is about citizen responsibility. Everyone is a brat with rights and privileges but no responsibility. Especially the youth and women who think we are owed this and that. The average Kenyan is a holier-than-thou critic who lives knee-deep in hypocrisy. That it's Uhuru or GoK job to hand them things including prosperity. But they are corrupt, lazy, irresponsible and entitled. There should be no equality beyond the right to life, security, education and basic utilities. You cannot afford housing suck up in Eastlands 6th floor - or Mavoko swamp - that's your worth.

   Nipate is a very interesting forum.  One day you find someone annoying then you realize the next minute how much you agree with them.  Robina you spoken like the five wise men.  Kenya kuna ushenzi mingi sana pertaining corruption and entitlement.

When was i so annoying 

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Most people cannot understand why India or China with 1B plus are doing well than Africa. But they don't know in both China and India - family size are smaller than Africa.  In Africa - Arabs North - And Southern Africa (RSA, Namibia, Botswana) have achieved the 2 kids max kid of family that is ideal for getting out of poverty. In Kenya - GEMA - Kikuyu, Embu and Merus - are also nearly there. Nairobi is at ideal 3 family sized household.

The rest of the country requires very serious investment in family planning - education, providing contraceptive, dealing with churches, providing abortion clinic, delaying early marriages and pregnancies'

Once you have 1-2 adults looking care for their own needs and maybe 1 kid each - getting out of poverty is easy! You can feed yourself and a kid without a problem! You can start saving money. But the more kids your add - the deeper you sink into poverty - as your income become shared.

Yep. Total fertility rates are very low in India and China, in the cities of India TFR is actually lower than in developed countries. It is big contributing factor to those societies making big economic strides. We are stuck in the second stage of demographic transition. In stage two i.e the urbanizing/industrializing stage one sees a rise in population caused by a decline in the death rate while the birth rate remains high.

[RV Pundit]

Sound like 19th century Theory. The modern medicine (not industrialization/urbanization) is responsible for poor countries population explosion.

The demographic impact of vaccination/Immunization in 20th century is profound. - and so was the ground breaking discovery of Pencilin in 1928.

World population in 20th century grew from 1B to 7B in such short time! And this is mostly due to modern medicine - the defeat of bacteria and related microbes in 1920s with penicillin/antibiotics and the mass vaccination/immunization later - drastically slashed infant mortality and general morbidity.

Now even poor countries like kenya - people have life expectancy of nearly 70yrs. Now if we defeat the viruses - we could have sustained population growth - that could lead to new problems. Africa without HIV-AIDs and all the other many diseases would probably be 3b people..and world population would probably be 10B plus...if you calculate the mortality/morbidity rates.

Yep. Total fertility rates are very low in India and China, in the cities of India TFR is actually lower than in developed countries. It is big contributing factor to those societies making big economic strides. We are stuck in the second stage of demographic transition. In stage two i.e the urbanizing/industrializing stage one sees a rise in population caused by a decline in the death rate while the birth rate remains high.