Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

....
Uhuru had an idea but he lacked Ruto to do the follow up....

Which follow up? A Kimwarer and Arror "follow-up" where "only Ksh.7 billion" was lost?
You got jokes. You need to find someone else to front for 2022 hoping you can drop the tribal tag in favor of a public servant who will serve the people.

 

He is a comedian, baghdad bob.

[RV Pundit]

My Reputation: 74,446
Your Reputation point:0.

You know how it was on RCB, Choo.com and now here.

ODMorons like you need learn to divorce yourself from ODM, and think, think, think,without party blinkers and maybe you'll guys will start making sense.

Not everything is political.

He is a comedian, baghdad bob.

[RV Pundit]

You know Kimawere and Itare would have provided water for millions of kenyans. Itare alone would have gone as far as Naivasha.

Now if we worry about every coin lost - and we end up losing the project that is stupidity 101.

The whole investigation (witchhunt) was mismanaged so much they went for italian contractors - and yet the project was being funded from Italy.

Now like Angloleasing - we will pay the debt - and we won't have anything.

If Ruto had been allowed to clean up the mess -  he would have taken 10% of it - say 10B -out of 70B - but I don't care - the 60B would have provided water for many many generations.

Every Kenya public project has 10% corruption factored into it. Give the ceasar what belong to him. And let us enjoy 90%. Yes ideally 100% would be great..but if we go for 0% or 100% that is stupidity. For now...I say we take 90%.

Now no dam. no water. and debt has to be paid. These are international contracts that nonsense from DCI don't touch.

Our cut-throat politics is essentially the fight for 10%. I think we should for now allow that 10% to go on and use the Asset Recovery to go for them. Otherwise if you stop everything - worse when horse has bolted and signed international contracts - you're double f.ucked. And beside the guys who went for Ruto wing of corruption - were going for them - so they can get that 10% themselves.

What is important for me - is who deliver the water - if they take 10% like Wanjigis/Rutos - but get the shiet done - more power to them - if they take 5% like Raila does and nothing get delivered - nothing gets deliverd. That is what matters. 80% of Mavoko Kids now have brown teeth because of borehole water.

Which follow up? A Kimwarer and Arror "follow-up" where "only Ksh.7 billion" was lost?
You got jokes. You need to find someone else to front for 2022 hoping you can drop the tribal tag in favor of a public servant who will serve the people.

[KenyanPlato]

There is no housing deficit  in kenya. Most kenyans own two places they call home. Only about 700k kenyans are born and raised in nairobi with no rural connections

[RV Pundit]

There is no housing deficit  in kenya. Most kenyans own two places they call home. Only about 700k kenyans are born and raised in nairobi with no rural connections

How many nairobeans rent...

[KenyanPlato]

There is no housing deficit  in kenya. Most kenyans own two places they call home. Only about 700k kenyans are born and raised in nairobi with no rural connections

How many nairobeans rent...

Most renters have no ability and will never have or are not interested in building in Nairobi.

The market  would solve any shortage as big as claimed. Dr Ndii has looked at the numbers on this and said the claim is hot air. I would trust an economist before I trust hogwash about shortage of 500K units. If there was that shortage it would be solved by the market. Markets are efficient. Jayden is wasting time

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Most renters have no ability and will never have or are not interested in building in Nairobi.

The market  would solve any shortage as big as claimed. Dr Ndii has looked at the numbers on this and said the claim is hot air. I would trust an economist before I trust hogwash about shortage of 500K units. If there was that shortage it would be solved by the market. Markets are efficient. Jayden is wasting time

It is more about getting a chance to steal than providing housing. Ruto wing of Jubilee is even more avaricious than the GEMA wing. RAO has to come in and rein in these two thieves.

[KenyanPlato]

Most renters have no ability and will never have or are not interested in building in Nairobi.

The market  would solve any shortage as big as claimed. Dr Ndii has looked at the numbers on this and said the claim is hot air. I would trust an economist before I trust hogwash about shortage of 500K units. If there was that shortage it would be solved by the market. Markets are efficient. Jayden is wasting time

It is more about getting a chance to steal than providing housing. Ruto wing of Jubilee is even more avaricious than the GEMA wing. RAO has to come in and rein in these two thieves.

Raila is too old to do anything now. He will be likely a compromise candidate like Kibaki. He will sloth through his two terms. Kenya is broken completely. I have on illussion it will be fixed. Kenyans are looking for a Messiah. They want someone to sacrifice his all. kenyans need to do the hard work themselves. Moi used to ask them. "I have employed a Kenyan finance minister everyone serving is kenya but you are always blaming asians from Stealing" who is allowing them to steal? This notion that there is a messiah to save others is what is wrong with Kenya

Tribal politics will always deliver disaster. Now Kales are hoping for Ruto to become president to rescue them from Kikuyus. Kikuyus are looking for Raila to save them from Ruto

It is useless

[RV Pundit]

Thievery has got everything to do with opportunity - and nothing with tribes or persons. Whoever comes in will continue with stealing. They will be immune from DCI/DPP/EACC until they are out of gov or favour.

It is more about getting a chance to steal than providing housing. Ruto wing of Jubilee is even more avaricious than the GEMA wing. RAO has to come in and rein in these two thieves.

[hk]

That would be true only if you can point row of empty houses - but there is a pent up demand for housing. The kind of shitty houses in Nairobi attracting high rent is because there is few decent houses with decent infrastructures.

This was not always the case. During Moi era - NHC/NSSF/NHIF were investing in large housing estates like Nyayo Estates. Those houses were so cheap a low civil servant driver could afford one.

When Jirongo and Mugoya started messing around - it's scared such funds - with 'bottomless' money to invest- and they started investing in equities - and now they are also crying in the toilet.

When NSSF/NHIF/Insurance exited from scene - our housing went Matatu way - INFORMAL. It's been that way for years - leading to fugly housing estates. But like Matatu it's now a source of income for many.

What was missing here is the economies of scale that big housing estates can bring. Now we have chinese contractors who can do Nyayo kind of estates - and this is where we need to tap.If one Chinese - like Great Wall guy - can deliver 2,000 units cheaply at 3M - now imagine Gov backed Chinese contractors. They can deliver houses for even 0.5m. I remember NHC Highrises - houses in 2004 were being sold for 0.6m - the original owners bought it 0.4m. They were on very cheap tenant purchase scheme - where owners paid 4-5k per month - and you find civil servants earning 20k - owning houses. Now that is Impossible Dream.

Uhuru had an idea but he lacked Ruto to do the follow up.

We need Chinese contractors - and Kenya Mortgage - plus all these NHIF/NSSF - back in housing - and if they combined synergies - it would be possible to get brand new well planned housing estates with 2B room house being sold for less than 2m.

And that will mean a Kamau going to buy plots to put housing - will not be able to compete. And instead they will invest in other areas including manufacturing, hotels, minning, name it.

Only in poor countries like Africa do you find most housing is being done informally by anybody. Elsewehere housing schemes are built by big pensions, insurance and gov funds.

The same way we have made huge mess of the transport sector.

There's nothing like housing deficit in kenya, what we have is income deficit. By government borrowing like crazy it guarantees that interest rate on mortages won't be 6% any time soon. Another problem is also expensive construction. Before the chinese started using red soil to build roads, all roads were being constructed using hardcore stores. Red soil is cheaper and readily available plus the roads are more durable. Its about time someone invested in a proper brick manufacturing that would be cheaper than quarry stones.  So instead of investing in plots how about investing in building materials.

If the argument is that cause alot of people live in squalor there's housing deficit, yes in absolute terms is correct. The question is affordability, most of the government projects you cited were subsidized by taxpayers to make them affordable. Even the Chinese great wall houses haven't all been sold and some buyers now are actually renting out.
Most kenyans buy plots then build their houses slowly. There only 27k mortgages in kenya, this cause interest rates are so high making them unaffordable.
In eastleign there atleast 4blocks with 100plus units that were initially offered for sale now they're just being rented out.  The main question in housing isn't lack of houses but affordability. Solution raise income of buyers or lower cost of housing dramatically.

[RV Pundit]

Why are kenyans able to afford plots and build. Cost will come down if there is economies of scale. This is what is happening in china. Also mortagage rate are ridiculous - considering it's almost risk free. At worse they should be up there with tbills - maybe 8% max.

So the reforms we need
1) Bring in big contractors who can achieve economies of scale - Chinese. We need to build more Nyayo estate - 5,000-10,000 units estates - and sell them at 1-2m kshs.
2) The Kenya Mortgage Company - Gov funded - who will underwrite those mortages at 6% interest rate.

In short like the current rent people pay should go into mortagage payments - and the landlord or slumlords should find another business to do - like building commercial housing, malls, etc.

Housing is basic human need.

If the argument is that cause alot of people live in squalor there's housing deficit, yes in absolute terms is correct. The question is affordability, most of the government projects you cited were subsidized by taxpayers to make them affordable. Even the Chinese great wall houses haven't all been sold and some buyers now are actually renting out.
Most kenyans buy plots then build their houses slowly. There only 27k mortgages in kenya, this cause interest rates are so high making them unaffordable.
In eastleign there atleast 4blocks with 100plus units that were initially offered for sale now they're just being rented out.  The main question in housing isn't lack of houses but affordability. Solution raise income of buyers or lower cost of housing dramatically.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

 

Thievery has got everything to do with opportunity - and nothing with tribes or persons. Whoever comes in will continue with stealing. They will be immune from DCI/DPP/EACC until they are out of gov or favour.

If Ruto had been allowed to clean up the mess -  he would have taken 10% of it - say 10B -out of 70B - but I don't care - the 60B would have provided water for many many generations.

Every Kenya public project has 10% corruption factored into it. Give the ceasar what belong to him. And let us enjoy 90%. Yes ideally 100% would be great..but if we go for 0% or 100% that is stupidity. For now...I say we take 90%.

 

You are the most unapologetic pro corruption person I have ever seen on forums. Demonic! Your nihilistic cheer-leading for graft and malfeasance speaks volumes. We are doomed. Living in corruption free country has not rubbed even a little bit of responsibility in you?

[KenyanPlato]

Why are kenyans able to afford plots and build. Cost will come down if there is economies of scale. This is what is happening in china. Also mortagage rate are ridiculous - considering it's almost risk free. At worse they should be up there with tbills - maybe 8% max.

So the reforms we need
1) Bring in big contractors who can achieve economies of scale - Chinese. We need to build more Nyayo estate - 5,000-10,000 units estates - and sell them at 1-2m kshs.
2) The Kenya Mortgage Company - Gov funded - who will underwrite those mortages at 6% interest rate.

In short like the current rent people pay should go into mortagage payments - and the landlord or slumlords should find another business to do - like building commercial housing, malls, etc.

Housing is basic human need.

If the argument is that cause alot of people live in squalor there's housing deficit, yes in absolute terms is correct. The question is affordability, most of the government projects you cited were subsidized by taxpayers to make them affordable. Even the Chinese great wall houses haven't all been sold and some buyers now are actually renting out.
Most kenyans buy plots then build their houses slowly. There only 27k mortgages in kenya, this cause interest rates are so high making them unaffordable.
In eastleign there atleast 4blocks with 100plus units that were initially offered for sale now they're just being rented out.  The main question in housing isn't lack of houses but affordability. Solution raise income of buyers or lower cost of housing dramatically.

We have about 6 big private companies exit or go banrupt. Gok can build civil servant houses but that where they should stop

[hk]

Why are kenyans able to afford plots and build. Cost will come down if there is economies of scale. This is what is happening in china. Also mortagage rate are ridiculous - considering it's almost risk free. At worse they should be up there with tbills - maybe 8% max.

So the reforms we need
1) Bring in big contractors who can achieve economies of scale - Chinese. We need to build more Nyayo estate - 5,000-10,000 units estates - and sell them at 1-2m kshs.
2) The Kenya Mortgage Company - Gov funded - who will underwrite those mortages at 6% interest rate.

In short like the current rent people pay should go into mortagage payments - and the landlord or slumlords should find another business to do - like building commercial housing, malls, etc.

Housing is basic human need.

If the argument is that cause alot of people live in squalor there's housing deficit, yes in absolute terms is correct. The question is affordability, most of the government projects you cited were subsidized by taxpayers to make them affordable. Even the Chinese great wall houses haven't all been sold and some buyers now are actually renting out.
Most kenyans buy plots then build their houses slowly. There only 27k mortgages in kenya, this cause interest rates are so high making them unaffordable.
In eastleign there atleast 4blocks with 100plus units that were initially offered for sale now they're just being rented out.  The main question in housing isn't lack of houses but affordability. Solution raise income of buyers or lower cost of housing dramatically.

Mortage isn't risky free. In a country like kenya where informal sector dominate the economy mortage are quite risky. Government subsidizing housing is the worst  idea government can come up with.
Land cost is the most expensive input in kenya, that's why condominiums are popular. Stand alone house are mainly built in marginal areas like mavoko, kitengela ruai, ruiru etc, its cheaper to buy a plot there and build slowly. Kenya real estate market is like chinese market, prices are driven up by speculation. Kenyans mainly invest in real estate due to lack of other investments like stocks. The solution is to lower interest rates by being fiscally Conservative and raising standards of living by increasing productivity.   

[RV Pundit]

You trickle-down Kibakisque model will get us nowhere. We need revolutionary ideas that transformed china from a bicyle riding rural backwater to what it is now. Part of that was a construction boom - with houses so cheap - every chinese is able to buy 2 or 3 houses. Imagine if houses in Kenya were 1m - most of kenyans will turn from renting to owning 3 or 4 houses.

It can be done. All we need is SCALE by going big on this. When you start delivering 10,000 units a project - the cost will naturally come down.

I think the low risk of mortagage can be secured by something like Kenya Mortagage Ltd.

Uhuru had all this figured out in housing but execution is not there. He think Matiangi can do the magic - but you require talents of Ruto to pull through such serious projects

Mortage isn't risky free. In a country like kenya where informal sector dominate the economy mortage are quite risky. Government subsidizing housing is the worst  idea government can come up with.
Land cost is the most expensive input in kenya, that's why condominiums are popular. Stand alone house are mainly built in marginal areas like mavoko, kitengela ruai, ruiru etc, its cheaper to buy a plot there and build slowly. Kenya real estate market is like chinese market, prices are driven up by speculation. Kenyans mainly invest in real estate due to lack of other investments like stocks. The solution is to lower interest rates by being fiscally Conservative and raising standards of living by increasing productivity.   

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

You trickle-down Kibakisque model will get us nowhere. We need revolutionary ideas that transformed china from a bicyle riding rural backwater to what it is now. Part of that was a construction boom - with houses so cheap - every chinese is able to buy 2 or 3 houses. Imagine if houses in Kenya were 1m - most of kenyans will turn from renting to owning 3 or 4 houses.

It can be done. All we need is SCALE by going big on this. When you start delivering 10,000 units a project - the cost will naturally come down.

I think the low risk of mortagage can be secured by something like Kenya Mortagage Ltd.

Uhuru had all this figured out in housing but execution is not there. He think Matiangi can do the magic - but you require talents of Ruto to pull through such serious projects

Setting aside your pie in the sky solutions, how are you going to ensure equitable distribution of said housing given Kenya's negative ethnicity?

What would prevent Uhuru giving all the housing units built to his kinfolk? Nothing..they are already monopolizing state appointments. Road building and infrastructure is skewed to certain regions, etc.

All these fancy proposals will amount to nothing if the system is not built on justice and equity. As the revenue sharing debacle showed us Kenya is basically 1 tribe eating everything with a big spoon will the 41 other tribes watch on. It can't go on.

[hk]

You trickle-down Kibakisque model will get us nowhere. We need revolutionary ideas that transformed china from a bicyle riding rural backwater to what it is now. Part of that was a construction boom - with houses so cheap - every chinese is able to buy 2 or 3 houses. Imagine if houses in Kenya were 1m - most of kenyans will turn from renting to owning 3 or 4 houses.

It can be done. All we need is SCALE by going big on this. When you start delivering 10,000 units a project - the cost will naturally come down.

I think the low risk of mortagage can be secured by something like Kenya Mortagage Ltd.

Uhuru had all this figured out in housing but execution is not there. He think Matiangi can do the magic - but you require talents of Ruto to pull through such serious projects

Mortage isn't risky free. In a country like kenya where informal sector dominate the economy mortage are quite risky. Government subsidizing housing is the worst  idea government can come up with.
Land cost is the most expensive input in kenya, that's why condominiums are popular. Stand alone house are mainly built in marginal areas like mavoko, kitengela ruai, ruiru etc, its cheaper to buy a plot there and build slowly. Kenya real estate market is like chinese market, prices are driven up by speculation. Kenyans mainly invest in real estate due to lack of other investments like stocks. The solution is to lower interest rates by being fiscally Conservative and raising standards of living by increasing productivity.   

Chinese don't have property rights, land was forcefully confiscated from poor to induce the property boom. Government creating a mortgage company is a dumb idea, what's needed is a securalization law to package mortgages as security that can be sold to investors. This would increase liquidity in the market lowering interest rates, but  also government has to be fiscally responsible. Instead of people owning 3 homes they can buy mortgage backed securities.
The revolutionary ideas you advocate i.e just the old government solutions to everything its what's has led to the collapse of kplc and impending electricity price hike.

[KenyanPlato]

Pundit Economic Theory

Government is the answer to all problems.. You want infrastructure let GOK build it by borrowing or over taxing

You want to increase demand for Mortgages - Let GOK create a subsidized pyramid scheme in housing

Bottom line Pundit wants a NORTH KOREA type of Economy. North Korea Infrastructure is super developed. However there are no cars to use it and the few trams there there there is no one to ride them.. Pundit won't mind a Kim Jo Yung of Kenya to emerge

[RV Pundit]

I am for Chinese-Ethiopia model that has lifted many out of poverty. We cannot use trickle-down. At our stage of under development - we need BIG GOV - once we have bridged the infrastructure deficit - gov can go small.

In fact If I was PORK i would float 100B dollar century Eurobond - and fix everything.

And then leave the economy to pay for it in 100yrs.

Once we have fixed the hardware - we can start thinking about HK software issues.

Pundit Economic Theory

Government is the answer to all problems.. You want infrastructure let GOK build it by borrowing or over taxing

You want to increase demand for Mortgages - Let GOK create a subsidized pyramid scheme in housing

Bottom line Pundit wants a NORTH KOREA type of Economy. North Korea Infrastructure is super developed. However there are no cars to use it and the few trams there there there is no one to ride them.. Pundit won't mind a Kim Jo Yung of Kenya to emerge

[KenyanPlato]

I am for Chinese-Ethiopia model that has lifted many out of poverty. We cannot use trickle-down. At our stage of under development - we need BIG GOV - once we have bridged the infrastructure deficit - gov can go small.

In fact If I was PORK i would float 100B dollar century Eurobond - and fix everything.

And then leave the economy to pay for it in 100yrs.

Once we have fixed the hardware - we can start thinking about HK software issues.

Ethiopia is shithole. Nothing works in that place.
Pundit Economic Theory

Government is the answer to all problems.. You want infrastructure let GOK build it by borrowing or over taxing

You want to increase demand for Mortgages - Let GOK create a subsidized pyramid scheme in housing

Bottom line Pundit wants a NORTH KOREA type of Economy. North Korea Infrastructure is super developed. However there are no cars to use it and the few trams there there there is no one to ride them.. Pundit won't mind a Kim Jo Yung of Kenya to emerge