Thimlich Ohinga

[Njuri Ncheke]

Yes milk is actually very important and other daily products they directly correlate to height, during Mois era atleast it was provided for children and now you cant compare height during that time with now,what i see nowadays just short people especially in schools. What our government needs to know or are just ignoring is that animal protein =higher intelligence too, Luos and especially Uganda Nilotes were very bright chaps when colonialists arrived all academic and administrative positions were taken up by nilotes in kenya and uganda bantus were kinda timid but with time quickly caught up, was it not for Jaramogi miscalculation to let Kenyatta rule we would be under Luo readership, Somewhere along the line Nilotes just lost it just when it was very critical look at maasai too controlling east africa and just to lose it when it all mattered

[RV Pundit]

Kenya kids are going through school at tender age - my small bros all finished school at 17yrs - one at 16yrs. Universities by 22. Nutrition is important...and as Kenya become richer...we will become taller and more intelligent...this where biology meets food.

Yes milk is actually very important and other daily products they directly correlate to height, during Mois era atleast it was provided for children and now you cant compare height during that time with now,what i see nowadays just short people especially in schools. What our government needs to know or are just ignoring is that animal protein =higher intelligence too, Luos and especially Uganda Nilotes were very bright chaps when colonialists arrived all academic and administrative positions were taken up by nilotes in kenya and uganda bantus were kinda timid but with time quickly caught up, was it not for Jaramogi miscalculation to let Kenyatta rule we would be under Luo readership, Somewhere along the. line Nilotes just lost it just when it was very critical look at maasai too controlling east africa and just to lose it when it all mattered

[Njuri Ncheke]

My brother son in form 2 is 15 years old and already approaching 6ft,my sisters kid at class 6 is youngest in class and towers easily all other class mates, i attribute this to a proper diet as babies growing up because their grandparents were not tall and parents slightly taller

[RV Pundit]

Majority of former slaves are bantus from Congo, Angola and Mozambique - and they are huge. So Africans will become huge when nutrition improves. Asian unless they change diet will always remain weak and short.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

How about Senegalese and Cameroonians to some extent?  They are like Africa's version of Polynesians.

[Njuri Ncheke]

Majority of former slaves are bantus from Congo, Angola and Mozambique - and they are huge. So Africans will become huge when nutrition improves. Asian unless they change diet will
always remain weak and short.

That simply because slave traders went for the most healthiest in any society, slaves fetched price according to age size and health. They did not have time for weaklings and thats why you find that black americans today are very tall and huge because they retain those genes.

[Njuri Ncheke]

How about Senegalese and Cameroonians to some extent?  They are like Africa's version of Polynesians.

Those countries are also diverse just like Kenya, there are different language group eg Fulani who are like masaai/somali in their culture and live hood, but apart from them other group consume mostly starchy food yam bananas cassavas making them very stocky but lacking the height of the fulani a cattle keeping people

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

How about Senegalese and Cameroonians to some extent?  They are like Africa's version of Polynesians.

Those countries are also diverse just like Kenya, there are different language group eg Fulani who are like masaai/somali in their culture and live hood, but apart from them other group consume mostly starchy food yam bananas cassavas making them very stocky but lacking the height of the fulani a cattle keeping people

I am talking about folks like the Wolof.  Those people are big.  In all dimensions.  Their sport of choice is wrestling.  Fulani/Maasai is the furthest thing that comes to mind when you see them.  They are giants basically.  There are no people like that in Kenya. 

You just need to see the Senegal soccer team.  They not only tower over other teams but are also physically imposing like how you would be around grade school children.

[RV Pundit]

I think majority of slaves were bantus - yes there West Africans (volta-niger group) - but from Cameroon southward it's bantu - and in place like Brazil and most of carribean - most of the slaves - are not west africans - but central and southern africa - at least majority from Kongo - Angola- and Moazambique.

I think Njuri does has a point in that slaves were human mules - so the stronger - the better - so even in slave markets in africa- the buyers would be biased against the weak and - brilliant - and go for the muscle men - and women.

Fulanis - and Maasai - the pastoralist were never really taken as slaves. The Fulanis and Hausa were slave trades - but they would mostly captures others - bantus and niger-volta - and sell them to European slave traders - or the Arab slave traders. The arabs were busy in east coast - but little remain of those slaves - as majority were castrated on arrival in Arabia. Kenyan, ethiopia and eastern countries slaves would be part of those in Arabia - but a few survived beyond a generation - after being castrated.

How about Senegalese and Cameroonians to some extent?  They are like Africa's version of Polynesians.

[RV Pundit]

I think sudanic - basically spread all the way to Senegal. Fulanis are niger-volta turned hausa. So Wolof for me would be close to Luo people of kenya.

I am talking about folks like the Wolof.  Those people are big.  In all dimensions.  Their sport of choice is wrestling.  Fulani/Maasai is the furthest thing that comes to mind when you see them.  They are giants basically.  There are no people like that in Kenya. 

You just need to see the Senegal soccer team.  They not only tower over other teams but are also physically imposing like how you would be around grade school children.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I think majority of slaves were bantus - yes there West Africans (volta-niger group) - but from Cameroon southward it's bantu - and in place like Brazil and most of carribean - most of the slaves - are not west africans - but central and southern africa - at least majority from Kongo - Angola- and Moazambique.

I think Njuri does has a point in that slaves were human mules - so the stronger - the better - so even in slave markets in africa- the buyers would be biased against the weak and - brilliant - and go for the muscle men - and women.

Fulanis - and Maasai - the pastoralist were never really taken as slaves. The Fulanis and Hausa were slave trades - but they would mostly captures others - bantus and niger-volta - and sell them to European slave traders - or the Arab slave traders. The arabs were busy in east coast - but little remain of those slaves - as majority were castrated on arrival in Arabia. Kenyan, ethiopia and eastern countries slaves would be part of those in Arabia - but a few survived beyond a generation - after being castrated.

How about Senegalese and Cameroonians to some extent?  They are like Africa's version of Polynesians.

There was a mix to be fair.  But in North America and the Caribbean, it's unmistakably West African dominated - Ghana, Nigeria, Senegambia.  In fact it is one of the things Kenyans and other Africans will often say derisively of West Africans; that they are just African Americans who were not caught.  The one exception I have noticed is Haitians.  They are look like Congolese straight up.

Brazilian blacks are a whole different breed and reflect their different origins around Angola, Congo and close by regions. 

[Njuri Ncheke]

Wolof live along the coast of west africa and  their staple food is fish, they eat fish for breakfast lunch and supper!!!! Then its accompanied by millet ugali or cassava, my friends those are luos of west Africa and very proud too, you cant actually differentiate a luo and wolof. So their height and size no doubt from staple animal protein mixed with some starch. Get my point this is what am talking about tell any community that has tall/huge people, you will NEVER miss animal protein as staple food

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Wolof live along the coast of west africa and  their staple food is fish, they eat fish for breakfast lunch and supper!!!! Then its accompanied by millet ugali or cassava, my friends those are luos of west Africa and very proud too, you cant actually differentiate a luo and wolof. So their height and size no doubt from staple animal protein mixed with some starch. Get my point this is what am talking about tell any community that has tall/huge people, you will NEVER miss animal protein as staple food

More like a Luo with the musculature of a Luhya farmhand.  But bigger.  In general, they would look out of place in Kenya.  There is obviously a genetic thing going on.  Without doubting the role of diet.  Igbos also eat every protein that moves but they not like Wolofs.

[Njuri Ncheke]

If you have followed and read my post carefully you will note i said apart from an animal protein based diet, other factors for human size are genetics where i gave somalis as example and environment. So the factors are 3.But to answer your question on the wolof i need you atleast to do part assignment you know myself i majored in history so this stuff is easy for me...... I will give you a hint.... The wolof were one of the major slave trading communities in africa, it was their major source of income, they had even caste systems up to now, now go through my posts again and what i answered punda connect the dots and you will be fully satisfied all answers all in my posts....class dismissed!

[RV Pundit]

True. Majority that went to America are west africa - Nigeria, Ghana all the way to Senegal. The Brazil and most of carribean are congolese/angola/and mozambique. All these depend on which European power had what say. Portuguese had established bases in Mozambiuqe, Angola and part of Congo. They shipped slaves to their land in Brazil. The British and French went to West Africa. This was like 15th century long before the partion....in Berlin...there were already well known basis. Portugues came to Mombasa but found the arabs to be too much and there wasn't much gold..they left for Mozambique.

I think majority of slaves were bantus - yes there West Africans (volta-niger group) - but from Cameroon southward it's bantu - and in place like Brazil and most of carribean - most of the slaves - are not west africans - but central and southern africa - at least majority from Kongo - Angola- and Moazambique.

I think Njuri does has a point in that slaves were human mules - so the stronger - the better - so even in slave markets in africa- the buyers would be biased against the weak and - brilliant - and go for the muscle men - and women.

Fulanis - and Maasai - the pastoralist were never really taken as slaves. The Fulanis and Hausa were slave trades - but they would mostly captures others - bantus and niger-volta - and sell them to European slave traders - or the Arab slave traders. The arabs were busy in east coast - but little remain of those slaves - as majority were castrated on arrival in Arabia. Kenyan, ethiopia and eastern countries slaves would be part of those in Arabia - but a few survived beyond a generation - after being castrated.

How about Senegalese and Cameroonians to some extent?  They are like Africa's version of Polynesians.

There was a mix to be fair.  But in North America and the Caribbean, it's unmistakably West African dominated - Ghana, Nigeria, Senegambia.  In fact it is one of the things Kenyans and other Africans will often say derisively of West Africans; that they are just African Americans who were not caught.  The one exception I have noticed is Haitians.  They are look like Congolese straight up.

Brazilian blacks are a whole different breed and reflect their different origins around Angola, Congo and close by regions. 

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

True. Majority that went to America are west africa - Nigeria, Ghana all the way to Senegal. The Brazil and most of carribean are congolese/angola/and mozambique. All these depend on which European power had what say. Portuguese had established bases in Mozambiuqe, Angola and part of Congo. They shipped slaves to their land in Brazil. The British and French went to West Africa. This was like 15th century long before the partion....in Berlin...there were already well known basis. Portugues came to Mombasa but found the arabs to be too much and there wasn't much gold..they left for Mozambique.

I think majority of slaves were bantus - yes there West Africans (volta-niger group) - but from Cameroon southward it's bantu - and in place like Brazil and most of carribean - most of the slaves - are not west africans - but central and southern africa - at least majority from Kongo - Angola- and Moazambique.

I think Njuri does has a point in that slaves were human mules - so the stronger - the better - so even in slave markets in africa- the buyers would be biased against the weak and - brilliant - and go for the muscle men - and women.

Fulanis - and Maasai - the pastoralist were never really taken as slaves. The Fulanis and Hausa were slave trades - but they would mostly captures others - bantus and niger-volta - and sell them to European slave traders - or the Arab slave traders. The arabs were busy in east coast - but little remain of those slaves - as majority were castrated on arrival in Arabia. Kenyan, ethiopia and eastern countries slaves would be part of those in Arabia - but a few survived beyond a generation - after being castrated.

How about Senegalese and Cameroonians to some extent?  They are like Africa's version of Polynesians.

There was a mix to be fair.  But in North America and the Caribbean, it's unmistakably West African dominated - Ghana, Nigeria, Senegambia.  In fact it is one of the things Kenyans and other Africans will often say derisively of West Africans; that they are just African Americans who were not caught.  The one exception I have noticed is Haitians.  They are look like Congolese straight up.

Brazilian blacks are a whole different breed and reflect their different origins around Angola, Congo and close by regions. 

Yep.  They tended to be matched with the colonies of respective controlling powers.  There was also something like a human commodity-exchange market on several Caribbean islands where you could find yourself headed to a "wrong destination", i.e. one where your kinfolk are not going.  Sometimes this was the actual intention.  So a Mandinka could find himself in Jamaica, lumped together with Igbo, Yoruba, Ashanti etc - people they cannot relate to, and sold to another trader.  A lot of African Americans can only trace their ancestry back to the Caribbean islands.

Haiti for some reason, didn't manage this very well and slaves revolted taking over the country and of course wiping out the slave owners.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Generally africans were taller 50years ago than the are now. This is because kids with stunted growth are now getting to adult hood due to advance in medicine and post natal care. Kitambo stunted growth kids would die living only strong kids that would grow to freaks. You can see for yourself if you go to high school some form one kids look like they belong to class 6 and so forth, its very disappointing africans are getting shorter, good medicine has helped but the proper nutrition for good growth as in animal protein meat, poultry and especially fish still lacks.

Very disappointing, poor nutrition negatively affects height, physical strength, IQ, facial beauty, and confidence.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

How does one know from the genome?  I am not questioning, but rather just curious.

By looking at the PCA plots for genetic variation, there is no variation when you look at Bantu samples.

Can you share a link to the study?

One study here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4173682/

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

How does one know from the genome?  I am not questioning, but rather just curious.

By looking at the PCA plots for genetic variation, there is no variation when you look at Bantu samples.

Can you share a link to the study?

One study here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4173682/

Ero kamano ahinya. 

I see it's pretty detailed.  And it supports the idea of displacement(and assimilation to a lesser extent).  I was wrong about the nature of their movement, in general.  Though I still think on the margins(Kenya is a marginal Bantu territory) there was more assimilation than displacement.  Maybe Luhyas(who they used in their study) are an exception.

They say Bantus are basically a West African tribe that spread relatively rapidly.  Their models seem to favor what I had suggested earlier - that the East African Bantu did not go directly East, through the Central African Republic, but went South and then veered East towards Lake Tanganyika.  My belief was informed by linguistics and the current ethnic makeup of Central Africa, but it appears the genetic evidence also supports it.

In East Africa they used Luhya and Pare people.  Does that seem representative of the Bantu people in East Africa?  I really don't think so.  A good East African Bantu sample should include Kikuyus, Sukuma in Tz, Hutus, Baganda(or Luhyas) I think.  But it's a start.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Ero kamano ahinya. 

I see it's pretty detailed.  And it supports the idea of displacement(and assimilation to a lesser extent).  I was wrong about the nature of their movement, in general.  Though I still think on the margins(Kenya is a marginal Bantu territory) there was more assimilation than displacement.  Maybe Luhyas(who they used in their study) are an exception.

They say Bantus are basically a West African tribe that spread relatively rapidly.  Their models seem to favor what I had suggested earlier - that the East African Bantu did not go directly East, through the Central African Republic, but went South and then veered East towards Lake Tanganyika.  My belief was informed by linguistics and the current ethnic makeup of Central Africa, but it appears the genetic evidence also supports it.

In East Africa they used Luhya and Pare people.  Does that seem representative of the Bantu people in East Africa?  I really don't think so.  A good East African Bantu sample should include Kikuyus, Sukuma in Tz, Hutus, Baganda(or Luhyas) I think.  But it's a start.

Ajolo in Ithi nade

They are better studies out there and they include all the tribes you mentioned, search David Reich' lab results.

How is Kenya a marginal Bantu country?

Yes, Bantus are a West African tribe.