Can a socialist revolution happen in kenya

[KenyanPlato]

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Can it?

[Garliv]

Depends. But before I go on what exactly do you mean by "socialist revolution?" Do you mean "socialist" as in ideology whereby government implement "socialist policies" or by socialist you mean "popular based revolution?"

[KenyanPlato]

Popular I want to work on it

[Garliv]

Very difficult. Very. If during Moi's time Kenyans couldn't do it apart demonstrations in Nairobi (mostly) they cannot do it now. Impossible.
Part of the problem is finding a unifying ideology independent of tribal loyalties. For example, even if right now Uhuru is unpopular in Mt. Kenya very few would support street protests to force him out. And of course right now he's hapa kwa hapa na Raila so Luos won't join in that "revolutionary actions.
It's almost impossible to have a popular revolution in Kenya. Actually if it were any easier, the usual instigators of regime change would have succeeded against Moi, or even against Kibaki.

Popular I want to work on it

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Very difficult. Very. If during Moi's time Kenyans couldn't do it apart demonstrations in Nairobi (mostly) they cannot do it now. Impossible.
Part of the problem is finding a unifying ideology independent of tribal loyalties. For example, even if right now Uhuru is unpopular in Mt. Kenya very few would support street protests to force him out. And of course right now he's hapa kwa hapa na Raila so Luos won't join in that "revolutionary actions.
It's almost impossible to have a popular revolution in Kenya. Actually if it were any easier, the usual instigators of regime change would have succeeded against Moi, or even against Kibaki.

Popular I want to work on it

I disagree. It can work if it is untainted and people see that it is an honest process.

Suppose you have a coterie of genuinely honest cross section of the country reps putting together a viable plan to restructure Kenya on more equitable footing. I believe most ethnic groups would support it.

People though Arab dictators would never be got ridden of because social divisions but they were wrong.

[RV Pundit]

2002 was the closest to a revolution. KANU was a huge machine that Moi had built and for it to be destroyed was no joke. Sadly Kibaki betrayed that revolution by becoming tribal as soon as he was in the statehouse and personally I stopped supporting  Kibaki then. Kibaki had betrayed a revolution. People will have to forget about that first. Folks had thought NARC would be different - not corrupt - fair - not tribal - but it soon became clear that KANU had not been defeated - because KANUISM lived on.

People see dead Moi but that man was colossal...who bestrode Kenya landscape and for him to be "defeated" - technically he was retiring - was no joke - and many of us felt like those Arabs.

But like all revolution - disappointment almost starts immediately.

[Garliv]

I note about Arab revolution but also there is some exaggeration there. Libya was not even a revolution: it was Nato mercenaries and NATO itself. Syria too. Egypt was a typical military coup despite veneer of popular revolt.

Now getting "coterie of genuine honest reps" is not easy. The robust debate in Kenya has ironically made it harder for people to have unifying ideology very difficult.

I disagree. It can work if it is untainted and people see that it is an honest process.

Suppose you have a coterie of genuinely honest cross section of the country reps putting together a viable plan to restructure Kenya on more equitable footing. I believe most ethnic groups would support it.

People though Arab dictators would never be got ridden of because social divisions but they were wrong.

[Nefertiti]

The trouble with revolution is that you cannot guarantee the outcome. It could and often is worse than the previous regime. Libyans must regret that change or reform nonsense.

[KenyanPlato]

The trouble with revolution is that you cannot guarantee the outcome. It could and often is worse than the previous regime. Libyans must regret that change or reform nonsense.

It has to have a Wide Movement that can transform into a Government.. Like the Movements in Venuezela by chavez, and Bolivia by Morales

[Nefertiti]

How is Venezuela doing now? The economic reforms did not endear then to the powers that be.

It has to have a Wide Movement that can transform into a Government.. Like the Movements in Venuezela by chavez, and Bolivia by Morales

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

I note about Arab revolution but also there is some exaggeration there. Libya was not even a revolution: it was Nato mercenaries and NATO itself. Syria too. Egypt was a typical military coup despite veneer of popular revolt.

Now getting "coterie of genuine honest reps" is not easy. The robust debate in Kenya has ironically made it harder for people to have unifying ideology very difficult.

I disagree. It can work if it is untainted and people see that it is an honest process.

Suppose you have a coterie of genuinely honest cross section of the country reps putting together a viable plan to restructure Kenya on more equitable footing. I believe most ethnic groups would support it.

People though Arab dictators would never be got ridden of because social divisions but they were wrong.

Libya's revolution was hijacked by NATO, it started out as genuine popular uprising, before crooked Hillary arm twisted a reluctant Barack, Cameron and Sarkozy joined in to give it a veneer. Egypt's military stole the revolution but it saved Egypt from an even worse fate - Islamic pariah republic. Syrian regime was saved by Russia.

Kenya can't be saved because one tribe is an obstacle. They are haughty yet cowardly, acquisitive without any moral scruples.

[KenyanPlato]

How is Venezuela doing now? The economic reforms did not endear then to the powers that be.

It has to have a Wide Movement that can transform into a Government.. Like the Movements in Venuezela by chavez, and Bolivia by Morales

The capitalists wont go away without a fight.. They are damaging Venezuela in process of trying to wrestle power from Socialists

[Nefertiti]

None of the Arab Spring has turned out better off at all. Sisi is no better than Mubarak. Yemen, Syria, Tunisia, Lybia are all at war. The refugee crisis quickly morphed into the European Spring of Alt-Right wins. The likes of Orban and Kaczyinski rode the anti- migrant wave. It shook Germany and the UK. Merkel is stepping down and Brexit got a boost over the edge. Even Trump was aided by the Obama misadventures in Libya and Syria.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Can it?

It has been tried.  But tribal cleavages are stronger than any shared class sensibilities.  Greater urbanization might change that.

[Garliv]

Kenya is more complex than "one tribe obstacle" as you put it. The kind of revolution you'd promote would find it very hard to have general acceptance among five big communities. They have different interests which aren't easy to reconcile.

But truly despite what you claim, Libya and Syria were not GENUINE Revolution. Are still not genuine revolutions. They were instigated by US/Nato Gang who organised and armed these Jihadists as tools of Regime Change.

But most importantly, does Kenya deserve revolution? Is it needed?

Libya's revolution was hijacked by NATO, it started out as genuine popular uprising, before crooked Hillary arm twisted a reluctant Barack, Cameron and Sarkozy joined in to give it a veneer. Egypt's military stole the revolution but it saved Egypt from an even worse fate - Islamic pariah republic. Syrian regime was saved by Russia.

Kenya can't be saved because one tribe is an obstacle. They are haughty yet cowardly, acquisitive without any moral scruples.

[Garliv]

If i was in Europe or US I would oppose Immigrants coming in especially in such large numbers. But to blame are European and US governments who instigate wars which inevitably produce more and more refugees who ran away from war zone to "safe zones.."

Its idiotic of Europeans to be part of destroying Middle East Countries and others then complain about immigrants. What do they expect? People would patiently die in their desert countries?

None of the Arab Spring has turned out better off at all. Sisi is no better than Mubarak. Yemen, Syria, Tunisia, Lybia are all at war. The refugee crisis quickly morphed into the European Spring of Alt-Right wins. The likes of Orban and Kaczyinski rode the anti- migrant wave. It shook Germany and the UK. Merkel is stepping down and Brexit got a boost over the edge. Even Trump was aided by the Obama misadventures in Libya and Syria.

[Garliv]

I think by 2002 the power of KANU had been whittled. Primarily because once multipartyism set in Kanu lost some regions. It wasn't as the behemoth it had been. Remember Moi engaged in competitive politics between 1992 and 1997. It would have been a revolution had Jaramogi and Matiba United in 1992 elections. They would have defeated Kanu then.

But what is undeniable is that Moi inherited a weak party from Kenyatta (who didn't see the value or was unable to make Kanu a mass movement) and made it a behemoth. No one else has been able to mobilize and create such a political party. What we have are just temporary vehicles formed or resurrected every 5 yrs to win power.

2002 was the closest to a revolution. KANU was a huge machine that Moi had built and for it to be destroyed was no joke. Sadly Kibaki betrayed that revolution by becoming tribal as soon as he was in the statehouse and personally I stopped supporting  Kibaki then. Kibaki had betrayed a revolution. People will have to forget about that first. Folks had thought NARC would be different - not corrupt - fair - not tribal - but it soon became clear that KANU had not been defeated - because KANUISM lived on.

People see dead Moi but that man was colossal...who bestrode Kenya landscape and for him to be "defeated" - technically he was retiring - was no joke - and many of us felt like those Arabs.

But like all revolution - disappointment almost starts immediately.

[Georgesoros]

Singapore's kind of socialism mixed with capitalism is the answer.
A true capitalist will not even help his grandparents pay their bills.

[Kadudu]

A revolution can happen in Kenya, but it would not be a socialist one, but a economic one.
People in Kenya do not want things for free. They just want to be given equal oppurtunities to make a living. The current system favours less than 1% of the population and another 9% who help the 1% milk the country dry.

[Georgesoros]

The 1% system is highly dependent on govt which needs to end.