The mighty kikuyus

[KenyanPlato]

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How did Bantus hunter and gatherers landless tribe end up with so much wealth and power. Kikuyus rise in 20th century is just phenomenal. Right now in east Africa kikuyus have nilotes and cushites begging for morsel. Kalenjins almost knocked kikuyus out of totem pole but their greed was cut to size after their goat herder cut and run.

Robina what is wrong with Nilotes? I am told Nuers hate Luos in kenya because when they were dethroned from EGYPT by Pharaohs the Nilotes agreed to go back to Egypt and reclaim the place from Arabs. Luos knew that they had no chance to win and so the decided to move down east leaving Nubians and NUERS to go back face Arabs alone. left to nature Luos will be extinct in a generation or two. Right now the only thing keep your people alive is Mzungu Generosity

As for Kalenjins after 2022 you are going back to shine kikuyu shoes. Bure Nyinyi

[Nefertiti]

Kikuyu are more lucky than "mighty". And you are a Mungiki chauvinist.

[KenyanPlato]

I wm not a mungiki been fighting a losing battle to hand power to your unfocused ADHD octogenarian Raila. I am almost giving up and going back to kikuyu hegemony tent. We are a kingdom with power, wealth and social clout. Even your lads die in our mountains looking for women coz kikuyu woman gives more than a cookie she gives you privilege

[Nefertiti]

Kikuyu have never worked to hand Raila power until now. So try again. It is easy to conflate luck from the accidental fit of the current governmental architecture to then natural Kikuyu disposition. So they appear superior and smart or "organized." No, it's happenstance. For instance the fierce non-Gema rivalry and the cohesive insular nature of Gema makes them hang onto power easily. I explained this in another thread.

Luck is not supremacy. Is Kenyatta II president because he is so smart? What a moron.

[KenyanPlato]

Kikuyu have never worked to hand Raila power until now. So try again. It is easy to conflate luck from the accidental fit of the current governmental architecture to then natural Kikuyu disposition. So they appear superior and smart or "organized." No, it's happenstance. For instance the fierce non-Gema rivalry and the cohesive insular nature of Gema makes them hang onto power easily. I explained this in another thread.

Luck is not supremacy. Is Kenyatta II president because he is so smart? What a moron.

What are you saying? They are in power because the beat everyone. All 40 plus tribes haven't been able to take power From kikuyus. How is thst luck and happenstance?

[Nefertiti]

The Kikuyu numbers, their insular nature, their cohesion, their siege mentality. The fierce intra- non- Gema rivalry, etc. These are natural dispositions not active effort. It's not competence it's luck.

[RV Pundit]

The fortunes and misfortunes of Kikuyus and Maasai makes for an interesting read. At their apex..the Maasai were the populous tribe of Kenya..occupying or having grazing rights to nearly half of Kenya. Kenyans then were like 1M people. The Maasai were most likely the most populous with about 0.2M people occupying the largest territory - just few kilometers from Mombasa - and all the way west to Mt Elgon - up North from Lake Turkana down south to Lake Tanganyika. Maasai reputation as the noble savages of Africa were heard far and wide - including in modern world of Europe - their reputation for bravery was unmatched - Somalis & Oromos quickly bailed out of Kenya - Kalenjin and everyone else quickly took into the forested hills - and nearly all Kenya plains were left for the Maasai. In come the in-fighting and the arrival of Brits.The proud Maasai (they had every reason to be proud) refuses to embrace change and stuck to their old ways.The Kikuyu on the other hand - maybe about 150K - a small community wedged in the forested highlands by ferocious Maasais - most communities would use forests & hills to even out things with Maasai - but absolutely nobody stood any chance in the plains at the Maasai apex -maybe Kalenjin and Turkana could hold some ground - but generally Maasai would out-gun you because they could raises even 10K warriors and attack (they were the most populous). Kikuyus tired of Maasai - quickly embraces the colonizing British -allowing them to set up camps (forts) in their land - and become their pliable or willing slaves. They embraces modernity, their population quickly rises to about 1M by time the British left and they go to school. The kikuyus goes on to conquer Maasai land starting from Nairobi, Nyandarua, Lakipia, Nakuru, even Narok and Kajiado. Their expansion West only stopped by Kalenjin loud complains and murmurs.Their population shots even higher in 60s & & &0s - until now they are possibly 8M.

Note, Kenya communities are very tiny, compared to say Somalis, Oromos,Amharas, Tutsi, Hutus, Kongo, Ibos, Fulanis, Yorubas. My Ethiopia friend told me kikuyus in Kenya would be classified under the small communities - Southern Nations etc..because a tribe like Oromo or Amhara are like 35M.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The fortunes and misfortunes of Kikuyus and Maasai makes for an interesting read. At their apex before 1901..Maasai were populous tribe of Kenya. Kenyans then were like 1M people. The Maasai were most likely the most populous with about 0.2M people occupying the largest territory. In come the in-fighting and the arrival of Brits.The proud Maasai (they had every reason to be proud) refuses to embrace change and stuck to their old ways.The Kikuyu on the other hand - maybe about 150K - a small community wedged in the forested highlands by ferocious Maasais - quickly embraces the colonizing British -allowing them to set up camps (forts) in their land - and become their pliable or willing slaves. They embraces modernity, their population quickly rises to about 1M by time the British left and they go to school. The kikuyus goes on to conquer Maasai land starting from Nairobi, Nyandarua, Lakipia, Nakuru, even Narok and Kajiado. Their expansion West only stopped by Kalenjin loud complains and murmurs.Their population shots even higher in 60s & & &0s - until now they are possibly 8M.

Interesting take.  I wish Kenyan anthropologists could do more to unearth the ins and outs of precolonial Kenya instead of just collecting a salary regurgitating ideas that are the sweat of 19th century bazungu.

Note, Kenya communities are very tiny, compared to say Somalis, Oromos,Amharas, Tutsi, Hutus, Kongo, Ibos, Fulanis, Yorubas. My Ethiopia friend told me kikuyus in Kenya would be classified under the small communities - Southern Nations etc..because a tribe like Oromo or Amhara are like 35M.

Yep.  Kenya had small tribes(in the literal sense).  The Igbo in Naija were also made up of small tribes and were generally considered backward by more advanced groups like Yorubas and Hausas in precolonial times.

[Garliv]

Quite a reply. I thought KenyanPlato was just horsing around looking to pick a fight and get a chance to "show thorax."

Any link or source for some of this?

The fortunes and misfortunes of Kikuyus and Maasai makes for an interesting read. At their apex..the Maasai were the populous tribe of Kenya..occupying or having grazing rights to nearly half of Kenya. Kenyans then were like 1M people. The Maasai were most likely the most populous with about 0.2M people occupying the largest territory - just few kilometers from Mombasa - and all the way west to Mt Elgon - up North from Lake Turkana down south to Lake Tanganyika. Maasai reputation as the noble savages of Africa were heard far and wide - including in modern world of Europe - their reputation for bravery was unmatched - Somalis & Oromos quickly bailed out of Kenya - Kalenjin and everyone else quickly took into the forested hills - and nearly all Kenya plains were left for the Maasai. In come the in-fighting and the arrival of Brits.The proud Maasai (they had every reason to be proud) refuses to embrace change and stuck to their old ways.The Kikuyu on the other hand - maybe about 150K - a small community wedged in the forested highlands by ferocious Maasais - most communities would use forests & hills to even out things with Maasai - but absolutely nobody stood any chance in the plains at the Maasai apex -maybe Kalenjin and Turkana could hold some ground - but generally Maasai would out-gun you because they could raises even 10K warriors and attack (they were the most populous). Kikuyus tired of Maasai - quickly embraces the colonizing British -allowing them to set up camps (forts) in their land - and become their pliable or willing slaves. They embraces modernity, their population quickly rises to about 1M by time the British left and they go to school. The kikuyus goes on to conquer Maasai land starting from Nairobi, Nyandarua, Lakipia, Nakuru, even Narok and Kajiado. Their expansion West only stopped by Kalenjin loud complains and murmurs.Their population shots even higher in 60s & & &0s - until now they are possibly 8M.

Note, Kenya communities are very tiny, compared to say Somalis, Oromos,Amharas, Tutsi, Hutus, Kongo, Ibos, Fulanis, Yorubas. My Ethiopia friend told me kikuyus in Kenya would be classified under the small communities - Southern Nations etc..because a tribe like Oromo or Amhara are like 35M.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The fortunes and misfortunes of Kikuyus and Maasai makes for an interesting read. At their apex..the Maasai were the populous tribe of Kenya..occupying or having grazing rights to nearly half of Kenya. Kenyans then were like 1M people. The Maasai were most likely the most populous with about 0.2M people occupying the largest territory - just few kilometers from Mombasa - and all the way west to Mt Elgon - up North from Lake Turkana down south to Lake Tanganyika. Maasai reputation as the noble savages of Africa were heard far and wide - including in modern world of Europe - their reputation for bravery was unmatched - Somalis & Oromos quickly bailed out of Kenya - Kalenjin and everyone else quickly took into the forested hills - and nearly all Kenya plains were left for the Maasai. In come the in-fighting and the arrival of Brits.The proud Maasai (they had every reason to be proud) refuses to embrace change and stuck to their old ways.The Kikuyu on the other hand - maybe about 150K - a small community wedged in the forested highlands by ferocious Maasais - most communities would use forests & hills to even out things with Maasai - but absolutely nobody stood any chance in the plains at the Maasai apex -maybe Kalenjin and Turkana could hold some ground - but generally Maasai would out-gun you because they could raises even 10K warriors and attack (they were the most populous).

I have also heard of a rinderpest wipe-out of the Maasai.  By colonial times they were already in trouble.  I think a good chunk of the survivors were probably swallowed up(not eliminated) by Kikuyu and neighboring tribes.  Kikuyu also absorbed a lot of the Ogiek. 

[RV Pundit]

Towards the end of 19th century (1870-1900) Maasai started facing headwinds. The first one was infighting. Lacking anybody to fight - everyone had basically scampered to mountains - Maasai started raiding each other and fighting amongst themselves. Then riderpest and smallpox did a number both on humans and the catttle. And once famous populous Maasai were kaput.Many tribes started recording victories against Maasai and pushing them out of some territories - many a maasai clans(subtribe) were decimated(genocide) either by fellow Maasai or other tribes. The previously untouchable Maasai were now too weak to defend themselves - their civil war having cost them unity and lots of men. British arrived to find Maasai willing to enter a deal...they would let Maasai on their own (aka independent) as long as they let British run the show and give them some land (Nairobi-Nyandarua-Laikipia-Naivasha-Nakuru-Uasin Gishu) as part of Lenana deal. These are the land the Kikuyus working as Mzungu workers would inherit or grab later. If British had come earlier - they stood no chance against Maasai. The Arabs slave traders had told the Europeans as much. The Maasai at one point wanted to attack Mombasa city but something happened. The Arab day of reckoning didn't come.

Where did the Maasai emerges from? Nobody really knows but for sure Maasai together with Turkana and Iteso group emerged from current South Sudan (around Juba are Maasai closes cousins Lotuka) - with a new form (advanced) of living - pure pastoralism with hardy Asian/Indian cows - with a bravery and fighting strength not seen in the region for many years. In few years they basically drove everybody out - only getting stopped by the equal fierce Zulu breakaway group (Ngoni) that was similarly making their way North - and their border was demarcated in South of Tanzania.

So what worked for Maasai - was mostly pastoralism in form of hardy asian/indian(ZEBU) cow - that allowed them to thrive (A maasai was rich & still is than anybody else if you count the cattle they owned), increase in numbers and rule East Africa.

I have also heard of a rinderpest wipe-out of the Maasai.  By colonial times they were already in trouble.  I think a good chunk of the survivors were probably swallowed up(not eliminated) by Kikuyu and neighboring tribes.  Kikuyu also absorbed a lot of the Ogiek. 

[Nefertiti]

Your rich Maasai history doesn't explain why Kikuyu reign supreme today. They are barely 20%.

[RV Pundit]

Kikuyu got a head-start by adopting the British modern live. The Luos had a similar head-start but seem they have squandered it. It like now - you jumped into tech - you're going to leapfrog many a greater civilisation before.

Your rich Maasai history doesn't explain why Kikuyu reign supreme today. They are barely 20%.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Africa is rife with small tribes who have clung to power owing to their group solidarity and fear of larger tribes dominating them. Ankoles are not that superior numerically but rule the roost in Uganda, Tutsis in Rwanda and great lake region. Nothing special about Kikuyus who were beneficiaries of historical happenstances i.e Beberu bequeathed them power, they are not a martial people who got their through force. Who knows we could be talking about mighty Luos now had the 82 coup succeeded. They are cunning and duplicitous however, and they posses and admirable cohesion for such a large group of people. A majority with a minority complex, which is very dangerous.

[Kadudu]

  Uhuru's true coöours have come out in his 2nd term. Clueless and lazy fellow.
Anybody who ignores how Uhuru ended up being president in 2013 is naive. With no ICC case the man would today be back at his corner in Cameo bar.

Luck is not supremacy. Is Kenyatta II president because he is so smart? What a moron.

[KenyanPlato]

Nye Nye Nye Nye ...how did hunter and gatherers become so economically powerful and politically powerful? Oooh mzungu oooohh nini mini? Kikuyus society was literary shredded by colonialist. Kikuyus had a civil war that killed thousands and by 1952 most kikuyu males were in jail, detention or living in concentration camps built in every village. Meanwhile the other tribes were in legco, trade unions, universities and most of their homelands were untouched by liberation war. How did your people end up be defeated by kikuyus who emerged from war in hunger, with jiggers and lice infestation. My mum told me that the Catholic nuns ran a human cattle dip in central. They would spray them with cattle spray twice a week to get rid off lice and use pins to remove jiggers. Kikuyus emerged from hell while Jaramogi had buses and a luo nation richer and more educated. What happened? Are the others tribes lazy and just unambitious?

As we would ask in kikuyu mwacindirwo munyitite ciana kana munyitite ngwati? Literally translated did kikuyus take advantage of you because you were nursing babies or a circumcised dick

[KenyanPlato]

By 1964 kikuyus were landless. Most peasants were in rift valley working in colonial farms. By 1972 Kikuyus had embarked on small scale commercial farming by planting coffee and tea. My own family bought a barren land in the fringes of aberdares. My mum quit teaching and in 1980 we planted tea. Most locals were not planting tea because prices and loans that ktda had were taking all the earnings and tea prices were very low. The tea farm made loses till 1980s after 1984 drought when tea prices started go up. Today person working at the farm from another tribe would assume my folks got it from gok patronage nope it is sheer determination to make it. If kikuyus had kalenjin lands we would feed the whole of sub saharan Africa.

[RV Pundit]

I think for once Jomo Kenyatta winning had a lot to do with Kikuyu economic glory. Jomo Kenyatta basically allowed Kikuyu to buy land for free - through abuses of British Loan to buy back the land. They also had gov largeses. It also true that many Kikuyus elites (Non Mau Mau) had gone to school and quickly became influential.

The story of KENYA'S SMALL HOLDER Tea and why Kenya is such an incredible success, start and ends with  ONE CHARLES KARANJA. It helped that he came from Kiambu ..and he pushed for unprofitable tea expansion - factories - thanks to closeness with Jomo Kenyatta.

By 1964 kikuyus were landless. Most peasants were in rift valley working in colonial farms. By 1972 Kikuyus had embarked on small scale commercial farming by planting coffee and tea. My own family bought a barren land in the fringes of aberdares. My mum quit teaching and in 1980 we planted tea. Most locals were not planting tea because prices and loans that ktda had were taking all the earnings and tea prices were very low. The tea farm made loses till 1980s after 1984 drought when tea prices started go up. Today person working at the farm from another tribe would assume my folks got it from gok patronage nope it is sheer determination to make it. If kikuyus had kalenjin lands we would feed the whole of sub saharan Africa.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Nye Nye Nye Nye ...how did hunter and gatherers become so economically powerful and politically powerful? Oooh mzungu oooohh nini mini? Kikuyus society was literary shredded by colonialist. Kikuyus had a civil war that killed thousands and by 1952 most kikuyu males were in jail, detention or living in concentration camps built in every village. Meanwhile the other tribes were in legco, trade unions, universities and most of their homelands were untouched by liberation war. How did your people end up be defeated by kikuyus who emerged from war in hunger, with jiggers and lice infestation. My mum told me that the Catholic nuns ran a human cattle dip in central. They would spray them with cattle spray twice a week to get rid off lice and use pins to remove jiggers. Kikuyus emerged from hell while Jaramogi had buses and a luo nation richer and more educated. What happened? Are the others tribes lazy and just unambitious?

As we would ask in kikuyu mwacindirwo munyitite ciana kana munyitite ngwati? Literally translated did kikuyus take advantage of you because you were nursing babies or a circumcised dick

 

Stop the self back patting Bwana. I see were you going with it now. I think you are that Kikuyu fella in the other Nipate who use to be fanatical Luo hater. For all it is worth, I don't  think Kyuks are all that, economically and politically.

[KenyanPlato]

Nye Nye Nye Nye ...how did hunter and gatherers become so economically powerful and politically powerful? Oooh mzungu oooohh nini mini? Kikuyus society was literary shredded by colonialist. Kikuyus had a civil war that killed thousands and by 1952 most kikuyu males were in jail, detention or living in concentration camps built in every village. Meanwhile the other tribes were in legco, trade unions, universities and most of their homelands were untouched by liberation war. How did your people end up be defeated by kikuyus who emerged from war in hunger, with jiggers and lice infestation. My mum told me that the Catholic nuns ran a human cattle dip in central. They would spray them with cattle spray twice a week to get rid off lice and use pins to remove jiggers. Kikuyus emerged from hell while Jaramogi had buses and a luo nation richer and more educated. What happened? Are the others tribes lazy and just unambitious?

As we would ask in kikuyu mwacindirwo munyitite ciana kana munyitite ngwati? Literally translated did kikuyus take advantage of you because you were nursing babies or a circumcised dick

 

Stop the self back patting Bwana. I see were you going with it now. I think you are that Kikuyu fella in the other Nipate who use to be fanatical Luo hater. For all it is worth, I don't  think Kyuks are all that, economically and politically.

No that is not me. Never hated any tribe or person because of tribe. I am more friendly. This is just pure objective non-partisan political economic analysis. It just dawned on me how poor in organization the other tribes are. They been literally subjugated by Waru, Nduma and Githeri eating Okuyus

To me character is the key. I will support Raila before I support Snuff chewing, bangi smoking and toivo drinking lazy bum Uhuru