Author Topic: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.  (Read 4305 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« on: July 15, 2019, 08:10:27 AM »
Look like ODM proposals. We will find out soon enough what BBI has in store for us.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001333871/handshake-team-seeks-powerful-pm

Offline sitting bull

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 08:52:48 AM »
Look like ODM proposals. We will find out soon enough what BBI has in store for us.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001333871/handshake-team-seeks-powerful-pm
.......If there exists a hidden agenda of changing katiba to accomodate uhuru  by creating a pm post or whatever, may it never see the light of day. Let Wsr, Rao, or the rest of the clowns fight it out.

Hii mambo ya kubadilisha katiba just because a certain group has realised power is about  to slip from their hands is exactly what led to 2007 clashes( im yet to be convinced that it was not spontaneous).  The arrogance exhibited by the murungarus and karaitus then is being replicated all over by ngunjiris and kibichos today.

Uhuru made a pact with Wsr, and declared openly kumi kumi. As much as politicians are known to negate on their promises faster than a blinking eye, it is only fair for him to return the favour or on bare minimum keep off the contest.


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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 09:02:09 AM »
I think we need to wait for this to play out. Somebody in ODM is just floating baloons here.
Look like ODM proposals. We will find out soon enough what BBI has in store for us.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001333871/handshake-team-seeks-powerful-pm
.......If there exists a hidden agenda of changing katiba to accomodate uhuru  by creating a pm post or whatever, may it never see the light of day. Let Wsr, Rao, or the rest of the clowns fight it out.

Hii mambo ya kubadilisha katiba just because a certain group has realised power is about  to slip from their hands is exactly what led to 2007 clashes( im yet to be convinced that it was not spontaneous).  The arrogance exhibited by the murungarus and karaitus then is being replicated all over by ngunjiris and kibichos today.

Uhuru made a pact with Wsr, and declared openly kumi kumi. As much as politicians are known to negate on their promises faster than a blinking eye, it is only fair for him to return the favour or on bare minimum keep off the contest.


Sent from my SM-G532F using Tapatalk



Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 05:15:26 PM »
Bad idea.  Creating positions just to satisfy current players is kicking the can down the road.  Kenya cannot hack democracy on a national level.  The changes to the constitution should address this.  I think a mongrel between UK Westminster and US Federal system should address this problem. 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 06:01:38 PM »

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2019, 06:12:37 PM »
Bad idea.  Creating positions just to satisfy current players is kicking the can down the road.  Kenya cannot hack democracy on a national level.  The changes to the constitution should address this.  I think a mongrel between UK Westminster and US Federal system should address this problem.

Yup - a proper UK-style parliamentary system - with a servant PM completely stripped of the pomposity and hero worship. Hii upuzi ingine ya hybrid na 3tier won't cut it.

Parliamentary, federal, few MPs - gameshot. Let's hope Babu is not completely senile.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 06:28:50 PM »
Bad idea.  Creating positions just to satisfy current players is kicking the can down the road.  Kenya cannot hack democracy on a national level.  The changes to the constitution should address this.  I think a mongrel between UK Westminster and US Federal system should address this problem.

Yup - a proper UK-style parliamentary system - with a servant PM completely stripped of the pomposity and hero worship. Hii upuzi ingine ya hybrid na 3tier won't cut it.

Parliamentary, federal, few MPs - gameshot. Let's hope Babu is not completely senile.

I think South Africa is kind of that way.  Yes, they have a President, but he is really a Prime Minister with some ceremonial roles when all is said and done.  They also only have 9 or so provinces.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2019, 07:45:34 PM »
Bad idea.  Creating positions just to satisfy current players is kicking the can down the road.  Kenya cannot hack democracy on a national level.  The changes to the constitution should address this.  I think a mongrel between UK Westminster and US Federal system should address this problem.

Yup - a proper UK-style parliamentary system - with a servant PM completely stripped of the pomposity and hero worship. Hii upuzi ingine ya hybrid na 3tier won't cut it.

Parliamentary, federal, few MPs - gameshot. Let's hope Babu is not completely senile.

I think South Africa is kind of that way.  Yes, they have a President, but he is really a Prime Minister with some ceremonial roles when all is said and done.  They also only have 9 or so provinces.


RSA is semi-presidential - cause PORSA is not summonable by MPs and has immunity, bla bla. Not good for corrupt, inept negro. The Zuma error tells it all. UK- or German style - they spend 2 days a week explaining to hawkish MPs why, when, what, who. No portraits, "father of the nation", gun salutes at the airport and such crap.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2019, 07:52:53 PM »
Sounds good. The problem is we still want to have a president - acting like the British queen or king -without that restraint - in corrupt, inept Negroland. That president will be elected via universal suffrage - and will render the PM - not better than Duale - who is in parliament every day explaining to our DOVISH MPS the why, what, when. The reality is our MPs will come from the majority party - and all the hawkish opposition noise will be ignored - as makelele ya chura which doesn't stop the cow from drinking water.

The current constitution has no major issues. The issues the way I see is lack of independence by bodies made independent (Police or Judiciary) - and a few idiosyncrasies like senate that isn't an upper floor.

The 14 or 8 provinces won't work - our tribal nation is 44 tribes. Counties at 47 tribes work best. You do not just pick any number. Our 47 counties largely reflect our tribal tapestry. The number & the borders are not arbitrary but follow tribal borders and reflect our tribal nation identity. We have a few cases that hopefully will be sorted during next year boundary reviews...I mean Kuria should be patched with Gusii...and part of Gusii given to Nyamira. Sabots in Mt Elgon should join TransNzoia. Parts of Kakamega should be given to Vihiga. Tiaty in Baringo should join West Pokot. Also remove the Njemps to Samburu or Laikipia. Isiolo and Marsabit should be fixed to stop tribal wars btw Borana's and others. Our counties should be tribal nations. That way nobody will see a lot of injustice....and tribal issues at the county level will disappear. We can deal with tribalism at the national level....that is halving the problem.

I also find the term limit on governorship really idiotic. That need to be removed...rather than trying to find them bigger areas.

Finally, we had all these long debates - with BOMAS - WITH COE - with public submission - with PSC ironing out few issues - and they were debated to death.

Constitution doesn't need an overhaul. It needs retouching here and there.

RSA is semi-presidential - cause PORSA is not summonable by MPs and has immunity, bla bla. Not good for corrupt, inept negro. The Zuma error tells it all. UK- or German style - they spend 2 days a week explaining to hawkish MPs why, when, what, who. No portraits, "father of the nation", gun salutes at the airport and such crap.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 05:45:55 AM »
You're not getting it - EXECUTIVE PM ala Teresa Mary May or Angela Dorothea Merkel. Minus all the pompous assent or veto laws, C-in-C, head of state, portraits, guard of honor, swords & instruments of power, etc ceremonies. Those you give to the powerless PORK whose term cut across MPs' terms. Kalonzo or Madvd or Aukot would be very happy to be Queen to swear PM's, JSC's or PSC's appointees or be on portraits in dukas & kiosks.

The sweaty Party Leader job leave for Ruto and Babu. Real piliticians. Point being - the glamor is half the appeal. All folks swear by and respect the Queen - including the PM. If coalition collapse - new coalition leader present their numbers to the Queen, who also open parliament with cabarets and gendarmes and chariots and shiny knights. Queen dissolve parliament if no majority coalition is possible.

Once PM become a JOB - no immunity, MPs Q&A, Odunga subpoenas, impeachable by majority - Uhuru and other indolent characters will drop the ambition pronto. The man or woman running the country must be accessible and accountable - which is what most democracies have done. You can be fired for insulting or disrespecting Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. While you can insult Teresa May with no consequence unless she sue you personally. Bibi Netanyahu and his wife juggle graft trial in between cabinet sessions and Likud Q&A. The wife had to refund cash she used to throw non-state bash in the official PM residence. In Kenya you can't call out Uhuru for anything - you must baptize him Jezebel Kibicho ? - lest the skies should part.

One Exec but defrocked, demystified PM. Hii ujinga ya 3tier or hybrid - NARA - we don't need nor want.

Sounds good. The problem is we still want to have a president - acting like the British queen or king -without that restraint - in corrupt, inept Negroland. That president will be elected via universal suffrage - and will render the PM - not better than Duale - who is in parliament every day explaining to our DOVISH MPS the why, what, when. The reality is our MPs will come from the majority party - and all the hawkish opposition noise will be ignored - as makelele ya chura which doesn't stop the cow from drinking water.

The current constitution has no major issues. The issues the way I see is lack of independence by bodies made independent (Police or Judiciary) - and a few idiosyncrasies like senate that isn't an upper floor.

The 14 or 8 provinces won't work - our tribal nation is 44 tribes. Counties at 47 tribes work best. You do not just pick any number. Our 47 counties largely reflect our tribal tapestry. The number & the borders are not arbitrary but follow tribal borders and reflect our tribal nation identity. We have a few cases that hopefully will be sorted during next year boundary reviews...I mean Kuria should be patched with Gusii...and part of Gusii given to Nyamira. Sabots in Mt Elgon should join TransNzoia. Parts of Kakamega should be given to Vihiga. Tiaty in Baringo should join West Pokot. Also remove the Njemps to Samburu or Laikipia. Isiolo and Marsabit should be fixed to stop tribal wars btw Borana's and others. Our counties should be tribal nations. That way nobody will see a lot of injustice....and tribal issues at the county level will disappear. We can deal with tribalism at the national level....that is halving the problem.

I also find the term limit on governorship really idiotic. That need to be removed...rather than trying to find them bigger areas.

Finally, we had all these long debates - with BOMAS - WITH COE - with public submission - with PSC ironing out few issues - and they were debated to death.

Constitution doesn't need an overhaul. It needs retouching here and there.

RSA is semi-presidential - cause PORSA is not summonable by MPs and has immunity, bla bla. Not good for corrupt, inept negro. The Zuma error tells it all. UK- or German style - they spend 2 days a week explaining to hawkish MPs why, when, what, who. No portraits, "father of the nation", gun salutes at the airport and such crap.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 06:01:35 AM »
In short we want a great system of government. No matter who wins cause he can't divert disproportionate resources to Gatundu. In fact am ready to back William Singh arap Ruto for Exec PM. Once he wisen over the moronic borrow-&-build of course.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2019, 04:57:30 PM »
In short we want a great system of government. No matter who wins cause he can't divert disproportionate resources to Gatundu. In fact am ready to back William Singh arap Ruto for Exec PM. Once he wisen over the moronic borrow-&-build of course.

I am almost okay with diverting resources to Gatundu or Sugoi.  As long as there is freedom of movement, who cares?  What I am not okay with is stealing those resources. 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 07:15:02 PM »
In short we want a great system of government. No matter who wins cause he can't divert disproportionate resources to Gatundu. In fact am ready to back William Singh arap Ruto for Exec PM. Once he wisen over the moronic borrow-&-build of course.

I am almost okay with diverting resources to Gatundu or Sugoi.  As long as there is freedom of movement, who cares?  What I am not okay with is stealing those resources.

My bad, I imagined diverting as stealing for one's favorite community.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2019, 07:57:43 PM »
In short we want a great system of government. No matter who wins cause he can't divert disproportionate resources to Gatundu. In fact am ready to back William Singh arap Ruto for Exec PM. Once he wisen over the moronic borrow-&-build of course.

I am almost okay with diverting resources to Gatundu or Sugoi.  As long as there is freedom of movement, who cares?  What I am not okay with is stealing those resources.

My bad, I imagined diverting as stealing for one's favorite community.

In retrospect you are right.  The Gbadolite model is stupidity.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2019, 10:52:19 PM »
In short we want a great system of government. No matter who wins cause he can't divert disproportionate resources to Gatundu. In fact am ready to back William Singh arap Ruto for Exec PM. Once he wisen over the moronic borrow-&-build of course.

I am almost okay with diverting resources to Gatundu or Sugoi.  As long as there is freedom of movement, who cares?  What I am not okay with is stealing those resources.

My bad, I imagined diverting as stealing for one's favorite community.

In retrospect you are right.  The Gbadolite model is stupidity.

It's especially much worse when the favorite community is in the Jersey or the Cayman. But still.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: BBI proposal - aka ODM proposals.
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2019, 12:29:13 AM »
Hii mambo ya kubadilisha katiba just because a certain group has realised power is about  to slip from their hands is exactly what led to 2007 clashes( im yet to be convinced that it was not spontaneous).  The arrogance exhibited by the murungarus and karaitus then is being replicated all over by ngunjiris and kibichos today.

Uhuru made a pact with Wsr, and declared openly kumi kumi. As much as politicians are known to negate on their promises faster than a blinking eye, it is only fair for him to return the favour or on bare minimum keep off the contest.


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I agree with you on mindless changes to the katiba.   We should have learned something from the disasters of the first 50 post-colonial years.   In Kenya we had Njonjo who gave us more than we had imagined was possible.

As for what is fair between leading politicians in Kenya---i.e., what arrangement enables them to thoroughly steal from the public purse---I don't see that as a big deal.   What's more, if RV Pundit is to be believed, then Ruto his already out-stolen all of them.   Should Uhuru be "fair" and help him into a position where he can steal even more?   And should Uhuru succumb to "if we don't get your people's votes, we'll again burn and slaughter your women and children" type of threats?

A bird in the hand, and so on?   Why "kumi kumi" at the outset?  Why not "tano tano" repeated?   
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.