Botswana bans law criminalising same-sex relations

[Kadudu]

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Unlike in Kenya, Botswana ia a true democracy and not thugs playing politics. The Botswana High Court ruled according to its constituition unlike that of Kenya still behaving as if we are a British colony.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001329443/botswana-court-legalises-homosexuality

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

It's lunacy to legislate how two grownups should have a private consensual relationship.   But oftentimes it's not easy to realize how crazy you are until you get exposed to a different set of values.

[vooke]

Do they have it in their katiba like we do?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Do they have it in their katiba like we do?

Probably not.  Seeing they are a common law jurisdiction.

[RV Pundit]

Exactly -

It's lunacy to legislate how two grownups should have a private consensual relationship.   But oftentimes it's not easy to realize how crazy you are until you get exposed to a different set of values.

[Dear Mami]

Do they have it in their katiba like we do?

Our katiba does not criminalize any kind of consensual grownup sex either, though. I don't want to put words in your mouth, though: is that what you saying? I believe our courts will scrap all our anti-gay-sex criminal laws, if not now, soon enough.

[vooke]

Do they have it in their katiba like we do?

Our katiba does not criminalize any kind of consensual grownup sex either, though. I don't want to put words in your mouth, though: is that what you saying? I believe our courts will scrap all our anti-gay-sex criminal laws, if not now, soon enough.

I know it only deals with marriage. Marriage and sex are different but related. What point we're Kenyans making in not recognizing same sex marriages? Allergy to gay sex. I see Judiciary throwing this question back to Wanjiru.

[RV Pundit]

Blame Makau mutua for that clause because he got the church alarmed enough to put it in. If it was left open - the judiciary would okay it. Honestly gay or whatever - we need to let people do their thing as long as they don't affect anybody. Besides nothing stops gay marriage now - they just won't be recognised by law - but 90% of our marriages are no legal.

I know it only deals with marriage. Marriage and sex are different but related. What point we're Kenyans making in not recognizing same sex marriages? Allergy to gay sex. I see Judiciary throwing this question back to Wanjiru.

[Dear Mami]

Do they have it in their katiba like we do?

Our katiba does not criminalize any kind of consensual grownup sex either, though. I don't want to put words in your mouth, though: is that what you saying? I believe our courts will scrap all our anti-gay-sex criminal laws, if not now, soon enough.

I know it only deals with marriage. Marriage and sex are different but related. What point we're Kenyans making in not recognizing same sex marriages? Allergy to gay sex. I see Judiciary throwing this question back to Wanjiru.

That's a wild leap, though, don't you think? I highly doubt the judiciary would make it. You will find bigamy criminalized, for example, but not infidelity. So the parallel cannot credibly be drawn that if a certain contract is not protected (or is banned) then automatically similar kinds of sex not involving formal contracts are ok to criminalize. There are plenty of countries (majority I would guess) where gay marriage is not recognized and gay sex is perfectly legal. Marriage is a legal institution that comes with all sorts of protections for issues unrelated to sex, primarily children and property that the public gets involved in regulating. Saying we don't want to protect contracts of gay relations is saying nothing about whether those relations should be allowed to be without the law's recognition/protection.

[vooke]

Do they have it in their katiba like we do?

Our katiba does not criminalize any kind of consensual grownup sex either, though. I don't want to put words in your mouth, though: is that what you saying? I believe our courts will scrap all our anti-gay-sex criminal laws, if not now, soon enough.

I know it only deals with marriage. Marriage and sex are different but related. What point we're Kenyans making in not recognizing same sex marriages? Allergy to gay sex. I see Judiciary throwing this question back to Wanjiru.

That's a wild leap, though, don't you think? I highly doubt the judiciary would make it. You will find bigamy criminalized, for example, but not infidelity. So the parallel cannot credibly be drawn that if a certain contract is not protected (or is banned) then automatically similar kinds of sex not involving formal contracts are ok to criminalize. There are plenty of countries (majority I would guess) where gay marriage is not recognized and gay sex is perfectly legal. Marriage is a legal institution that comes with all sorts of protections for issues unrelated to sex, primarily children and property that the public gets involved in regulating. Saying we don't want to protect contracts of gay relations is saying nothing about whether those relations should be allowed to be without the law's recognition/protection.

I'm.not saying it is 'right', just my gut feeling as to how SCOK will rule. We never had the clause in the katiba before and now we do. What informed it? The same mindset that put section 162-165.

I don't see anyone stretching their 'progressive' mien that far. Passaris is already in much trouble for mildly tweeting support for the #Repeal162 efforts.

The fact that our Bill of Rights carefully avoided orientation means something too. It was no accident that it only has sex(gender) and no orientation.

Lastly, the sections are seldom invoked. There is no record of anyone hauled in court for consensual gay sex. This is a weak argument but it makes it difficult to prove discrimination as the petition alleges.

From my layman perspective, I think the petition is weak. I thought LGBTQ Community with so many Westerners rooting for them could afford competent lawyers, but then again, maybe the stigma kept the very best away