bitmask, is Venezuela another Mexican standoff?

[Nefertiti]

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Two presidents.. Maduro vs Guido. Trump vs Putin. East vs West. Now that Russian boots are on the ground what gives?

Why Russia just sent troops to Venezuela


Russian Air Force personnel stand in front of a supersonic bomber aircraft upon landing at Maiquetia International Airport, just north of Caracas, on December 10, 2018.
Federico Parra/AFP/Getty Images

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/27/18283807/venezuela-russia-troops-trump-maduro-guaido

Trump tells Russia to get its troops out of Venezuela


President Trump meets with Fabiana Rosales, wife of Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido, in the Oval Office at the White House
[Carlos Barria/Reuters]


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/trump-tells-russia-troops-venezuela-190327171525621.html

[RV Pundit]

More a Syrian standoff. Putin wins again. But surely Venezuela with inflation worse than Zim need all the help.

[Nefertiti]

Hope the don't Syrian route M+ dead. Hispanic catholics are not genocidal.

More a Syrian standoff. Putin wins again. But surely Venezuela with inflation worse than Zim need all the help.

[Dear Mami]

It's like Ukraine amd Syria. The U.S. needs to go away. They are the uninvited bully there. Trump opposed Obama's wars because he wants his own wars with Iran and Venezuela.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

[Nefertiti]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

If Maduro were a patriot he would back down. Some battles are not worth it. What use are his socialist ideals when folks are starving? With the Russian buffer against a violent ejection this looks set to be another long-haul drama.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

If Maduro were a patriot he would back down. Some battles are not worth it. What use are his socialist ideals when folks are starving? With the Russian buffer against a violent ejection this looks set to be another long-haul drama.

Not backing down is the right thing.  They are supposed to be independent after all.  But the costs are high.  Their economic policies may be a little sketchy, but US sanctions continue to do the brunt of the damage. 

[vooke]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

[Nefertiti]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

Perhaps you are right. In that case Trump is silly to be the excuse. History will say the US tanked Venezuela same as she did Honduras and others.

[vooke]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

Perhaps you are right. In that case Trump is silly to be the excuse. History will say the US tanked Venezuela same as she did Honduras and others.

Sure, but Trump is so much hated that even apparently intelligent thinkers like Noam Chomsky are blaming the Venezuelan economic woes on him. Trump had to do something, and he cast his lot with the opposition. I wish he called for negotiations

[Nefertiti]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

Perhaps you are right. In that case Trump is silly to be the excuse. History will say the US tanked Venezuela same as she did Honduras and others.

Sure, but Trump is so much hated that even apparently intelligent thinkers like Noam Chomsky are blaming the Venezuelan economic woes on him. Trump had to do something, and he cast his lot with the opposition. I wish he called for negotiations

No. I meant he should have waited the self-immolation out - if indeed the US problem is only socialism. But we know it is not, their issue is not humanitarian - instead it is the oil - the US does not view Venezuela same as Cuba the wayward territory. They see it as an oil rig. Remove the natural resources and the interference is gone.

[vooke]

[Dear Mami]

Why do you think they want to start another useless war there then? Why do you think Russia warned them to back off and is now sending military aid mdogo mdogo? Please don't tell me socialism, because Russia is no more a socialist country that the U.S. So what exactly is the U.S. interest in Venezuela? Venezuela's oil reserves dwarf the Saudis' and look at the shenanigans the U.S. has been willing to engage in to maintain their access to Saudi oil. I think it's naive to think American interests here have nothing to do with all this oil in Venezuela. There are many bad governments in the world, and yet the U.S. and Russia aren't there; they are in Syria and Venezuela. Both of which are connected to issues of access to major reserves. Coincidence? I highly doubt it.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Hard to say.

Given the damage the US has already wrought to Venezuela's economy, I think there is going to be some form of blinking by the Venezuelans.  Putin is with the good guys and arguably international law.  But they are no match for the US which has simply declared the other guy President. 

Though American leverage might be weakened by whatever it is Putin has on Trump.  He certainly seems to have enough on him to bend him to his will.

Except socialism has not done the same damage to Cuba which still helps nominally capitalist countries with daktaris.  No, I don't doubt the Venezuelans did something stupid with the management of their economy.  But it did not happen in a vacuum, or because of "socialism" while Uncle Sam minded his own business.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The US generally has a low tolerance for countries that chart an independent course within the Western hemisphere.  They may not need the oil for themselves, but it just adds to their discomfort with Venezuela.  They want control.  They want to be able to know they can turn it on or off or prevent it from reaching for whoever needs it.

[Georgesoros]

Maduro is not Chavez. He mercilessly f...cked up Venezuela Mugabe style. Now vultures are cycling above. I dont want to see another middle East in South America.

[RV Pundit]

I think enduring lesson is countries can fail just like BIG companies fail or even individual that were so rich become bankrupt. Once you get into a slipper slope - and the slide began - it can be quite fast.

[vooke]

Why do you think they want to start another useless war there then? Why do you think Russia warned them to back off and is now sending military aid mdogo mdogo? Please don't tell me socialism, because Russia is no more a socialist country that the U.S. So what exactly is the U.S. interest in Venezuela? Venezuela's oil reserves dwarf the Saudis' and look at the shenanigans the U.S. has been willing to engage in to maintain their access to Saudi oil. I think it's naive to think American interests here have nothing to do with all this oil in Venezuela. There are many bad governments in the world, and yet the U.S. and Russia aren't there; they are in Syria and Venezuela. Both of which are connected to issues of access to major reserves. Coincidence? I highly doubt it.

America's role is purely humanitarian. America.has been struggling to win the socialist leaning South American nations. That's all there is to it.

If you can read into this any sensible conspiracy theory, I'd gladly hear it out. Get oil out. Tell me what's left

I have explained why oil is a red herring. OPEC no longer rules the prices. You have seen giant producers crawling. Even Saudis are flirting with IPOs to divest. The billions of barrels in Venezuela are good for nothing to nobody and especially foreigners. Just like Somalis 'huge reserves'

[Nefertiti]

Venezuela is not socialist per se. It has the typical left-center-right-, socialist-liberal-capitalist- democratic pendulum. If Sanders or Corbyn wins, young adults might think of the US or UK as socialist. Da Silva had a social leaning, Bolsonaro does not. Only Cuba is properly socialist. Generally firm state ideology is maintained via dictatorship; else you the have usual competing forces. bitmask is right that Kenya is a nominal capitalist - with social programs sprinkled here and there. Same as Uncle Sam with welfare.

The US has a nefarious intent for Venezuela. Check recent history.

America's role is purely humanitarian. America.has been struggling to win the socialist leaning South American nations. That's all there is to it.

If you can read into this any sensible conspiracy theory, I'd gladly hear it out. Get oil out. Tell me what's left

I have explained why oil is a red herring. OPEC no longer rules the prices. You have seen giant producers crawling. Even Saudis are flirting with IPOs to divest. The billions of barrels in Venezuela are good for nothing to nobody and especially foreigners. Just like Somalis 'huge reserves'

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Venezuela is not socialist per se. It has the typical left-center-right-, socialist-liberal-capitalist- democratic pendulum. If Sanders or Corbyn wins, young adults might think of the US or UK as socialist. Da Silva had a social leaning, Bolsonaro does not. Only Cuba is properly socialist. Generally firm state ideology is maintained via dictatorship; else you the have usual competing forces. bitmask is right that Kenya is a nominal capitalist - with social programs sprinkled here and there. Same as Uncle Sam with welfare.

The US has a nefarious intent for Venezuela. Check recent history.

America's role is purely humanitarian. America.has been struggling to win the socialist leaning South American nations. That's all there is to it.

If you can read into this any sensible conspiracy theory, I'd gladly hear it out. Get oil out. Tell me what's left

I have explained why oil is a red herring. OPEC no longer rules the prices. You have seen giant producers crawling. Even Saudis are flirting with IPOs to divest. The billions of barrels in Venezuela are good for nothing to nobody and especially foreigners. Just like Somalis 'huge reserves'

The idea of American humanitarianism is such an oxymoron, I don't know where one gets off the bus saying such stuff.  If you told me Norway was intervening for humanitarian reasons, that is more digestible.