Can you list the tribes in Kenya still practicing FGM

[Dear Mami]

Global, you are simply factually incorrect about the history of the Nazi era and the Catholic Church but I will not get into one of those never ending debates about it. Just FYI.

[Omollo]

There have been some cases of unqualified "surgeons" who do harm to some women. Otherwise the vast majority do not experience any of these things I read about.

I know many (highly educated) women who opted (yes you hear me - OPTED) to be cut. They did it willingly and even hid from parents to sneak and be cut.

I have never been told the basis upon which mutilations carried out on women's bodies (including their private parts) are hallowed and accepted but the cut is singled out for vilification.

Kadame you should organize to be cut.

Also, yes. It is multilitation. And besides its effects on female sexuality, it also carries serious psychological and other bodily effects. There are complications in child birth and other health effects. The only way to eradicate it is to institute laws for yearly medical check ups for girls under 18. And punishing (severely) any adults with authority over them if they are foubd to have been subjected to it. Some European countries prevent it this way in migrant communities from places that practice it sometimes with the threat that these adults could lose their asylum if their children are found to have been subjected to FGM since their entry into that country regardless of where the act may have taken place.

[Omollo]

Global, you are simply factually incorrect about the history of the Nazi era and the Catholic Church but I will not get into one of those never ending debates about it. Just FYI.

Do not be afraid, I am all ears.

[Globalcitizen12]

Kadame
Let me hear your point on this because you are wrong..

[Globalcitizen12]

Omollo
I a teenager has no ability cto make rational decision on such a matter..in pokot and kikuyu lamd the girls cut are as young as 10 to 16 years..

[Globalcitizen12]

Circumcision was promoted by Christian Puritans who were against masturbation.. male circumcision is mutilation too

[Kadudu]

Nothing to do with Islam. Women in Saudi Arabia motherland of Islam are not cut.
Infact majority of Muslim women are not cut. FGM is more limited to the African continent even among Muslims.

I thought it's an islamic thing - that is mostly recommended

[Omollo]

The issue of age and legal consent has been raised.

It is interesting to know that Age of Sexual Consent ranges from 12 in some places (Netherlands) to 21 (Bahrain). Need I say more?

Omollo
I a teenager has no ability cto make rational decision on such a matter..in pokot and kikuyu lamd the girls cut are as young as 10 to 16 years..

[Globalcitizen12]

We are talking of Kenya stop going all over the place

[Nefertiti]

Very unique true perspective.

There is nothing wrong with the cut. It is condescending and accusatory to call it FG Mutilation. There is no mutilation. There is more mutilation of women's faces and other parts of the body in the name of beauty than one finds down there.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Very unique true perspective.

There is nothing wrong with the cut. It is condescending and accusatory to call it FG Mutilation. There is no mutilation. There is more mutilation of women's faces and other parts of the body in the name of beauty than one finds down there.

[Omollo]

I am still against MUTILATION of Women. I am against denying women the opportunity to manage their own bodies. If they choose to fix any part of it for any reasons; they should be allowed.

Women in The West argue that they need some mutilations for psychological reasons. They want to be attractive to men who they would otherwise not be if they did not undergo that facelift or some vigina job. Well guess what, a girl in Murang'a, Kuria or NEP may not get a suitor for the simple reason that she has not been cut. She will also suffer psychological issues because of her inability to fit in all because she is not cut.

By the time some kids (boys and girls) in The West are 16, they have already undergone multiple MUTILATIONs. Let me list some ( and I am not adding sea salt..):

• Abdominoplasty ("tummy tuck"): reshaping and firming of the abdomen
• Blepharoplasty ("eyelid surgery"): reshaping of upper/ lower eyelids including Asian blepharoplasty
• Phalloplasty ("penile surgery") : construction (or reconstruction) of a penis or, sometimes, artificial modification of the penis by surgery, often for cosmetic purposes
• Mammoplasty:Breast augmentations ("breast implant" or "boob job"): augmentation of the breasts by means of fat grafting, saline, or silicone gel prosthetics, which was initially performed to women with micromastia
• Reduction mammoplasty ("breast reduction"): removal of skin and glandular tissue, which is done to reduce back and shoulder pain in women with gigantomastia and for men with gynecomastia
  
• Mastopexy ("breast lift"): Lifting or reshaping of breasts to make them less saggy, often after weight loss (after a pregnancy, for example). It involves removal of breast skin as opposed to glandular tissue
• Buttock augmentation ("butt implant"): enhancement of the buttocks using silicone implants or fat grafting ("Brazilian butt lift") and transfer from other areas of the body
• Buttock lift: lifting, and tightening of the buttocks by excision of excess skin
• Cryolipolysis: refers to a medical device used to destroy fat cells. Its principle relies on controlled cooling for non-invasive local reduction of fat deposits to reshape body contours.
• Cryoneuromodulation: Treatment of superficial and subcutaneous tissue structures using gaseous nitrous oxide, including temporary wrinkle reduction, temporary pain reduction, treatment of dermatologic conditions, and focal cryo-treatment of tissue
• Calf Augmentation: done by silicone implants or fat transfer to add bulk to calf muscles
• Labiaplasty: surgical reduction and reshaping of the labia
• Lip enhancement: surgical improvement of lips' fullness through enlargement
• Rhinoplasty ("nose job"): reshaping of the nose
• Otoplasty ("ear surgery"/"ear pinning"): reshaping of the ear, most often done by pinning the protruding ear closer to the head.
• Rhytidectomy ("face lift"): removal of wrinkles and signs of aging from the face
• Neck lift: tightening of lax tissues in the neck. This procedure is often combined with a facelift for lower face rejuvenation.
• Browplasty ("brow lift" or "forehead lift"): elevates eyebrows, smooths forehead skin
• Midface lift ("cheek lift"): tightening of the cheeks
• Genioplasty ("chin implant"): augmentation of the chin with an implant, usually silicone, by sliding genioplasty of the jawbone or by suture of the soft tissue
• Cheek augmentation ("cheek implant"): implants to the cheek
• Orthognathic Surgery: manipulation of the facial bones through controlled fracturing
• Fillers injections: collagen, fat, and other tissue filler injections, such as hyaluronic acid
• Brachioplasty ("Arm lift"): reducing excess skin and fat between the underarm and the elbow
• Laser Skin Rejuvenation or laser resurfacing: the lessening of depth in pores of the face
• Liposuction ("suction lipectomy"): removal of fat deposits by traditional suction technique or ultrasonic energy to aid fat removal
• Zygoma reduction plasty: reshaping the face

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I am still against MUTILATION of Women. I am against denying women the opportunity to manage their own bodies. If they choose to fix any part of it for any reasons; they should be allowed.

Women in The West argue that they need some mutilations for psychological reasons. They want to be attractive to men who they would otherwise not be if they did not undergo that facelift or some vigina job. Well guess what, a girl in Murang'a, Kuria or NEP may not get a suitor for the simple reason that she has not been cut. She will also suffer psychological issues because of her inability to fit in all because she is not cut.

By the time some kids (boys and girls) in The West are 16, they have already undergone multiple MUTILATIONs. Let me list some ( and I am not adding sea salt..):

• Abdominoplasty ("tummy tuck"): reshaping and firming of the abdomen
• Blepharoplasty ("eyelid surgery"): reshaping of upper/ lower eyelids including Asian blepharoplasty
• Phalloplasty ("penile surgery") : construction (or reconstruction) of a penis or, sometimes, artificial modification of the penis by surgery, often for cosmetic purposes
• Mammoplasty:Breast augmentations ("breast implant" or "boob job"): augmentation of the breasts by means of fat grafting, saline, or silicone gel prosthetics, which was initially performed to women with micromastia
• Reduction mammoplasty ("breast reduction"): removal of skin and glandular tissue, which is done to reduce back and shoulder pain in women with gigantomastia and for men with gynecomastia
• Mastopexy ("breast lift"): Lifting or reshaping of breasts to make them less saggy, often after weight loss (after a pregnancy, for example). It involves removal of breast skin as opposed to glandular tissue
• Buttock augmentation ("butt implant"): enhancement of the buttocks using silicone implants or fat grafting ("Brazilian butt lift") and transfer from other areas of the body
• Buttock lift: lifting, and tightening of the buttocks by excision of excess skin
• Cryolipolysis: refers to a medical device used to destroy fat cells. Its principle relies on controlled cooling for non-invasive local reduction of fat deposits to reshape body contours.
• Cryoneuromodulation: Treatment of superficial and subcutaneous tissue structures using gaseous nitrous oxide, including temporary wrinkle reduction, temporary pain reduction, treatment of dermatologic conditions, and focal cryo-treatment of tissue
• Calf Augmentation: done by silicone implants or fat transfer to add bulk to calf muscles
• Labiaplasty: surgical reduction and reshaping of the labia
• Lip enhancement: surgical improvement of lips' fullness through enlargement
• Rhinoplasty ("nose job"): reshaping of the nose
• Otoplasty ("ear surgery"/"ear pinning"): reshaping of the ear, most often done by pinning the protruding ear closer to the head.
• Rhytidectomy ("face lift"): removal of wrinkles and signs of aging from the face
• Neck lift: tightening of lax tissues in the neck. This procedure is often combined with a facelift for lower face rejuvenation.
• Browplasty ("brow lift" or "forehead lift"): elevates eyebrows, smooths forehead skin
• Midface lift ("cheek lift"): tightening of the cheeks
• Genioplasty ("chin implant"): augmentation of the chin with an implant, usually silicone, by sliding genioplasty of the jawbone or by suture of the soft tissue
• Cheek augmentation ("cheek implant"): implants to the cheek
• Orthognathic Surgery: manipulation of the facial bones through controlled fracturing
• Fillers injections: collagen, fat, and other tissue filler injections, such as hyaluronic acid
• Brachioplasty ("Arm lift"): reducing excess skin and fat between the underarm and the elbow
• Laser Skin Rejuvenation or laser resurfacing: the lessening of depth in pores of the face
• Liposuction ("suction lipectomy"): removal of fat deposits by traditional suction technique or ultrasonic energy to aid fat removal
• Zygoma reduction plasty: reshaping the face

They make free(informed) choice in an environment with ample protections, both legal and medical.  You can hardly say the same for a young woman in Dadaab refugee camp.

[Omollo]

They make free(informed) choice in an environment with ample protections, both legal and medical.  You can hardly say the same for a young woman in Dadaab refugee camp.

Should they then be given the choice? Remember it is not the choice that is the issue for the poor. Imagine if all those body invasions were banned.

[Nefertiti]

Omollo yawa. I thought labiaplasty was fixing a FGMed woman. You're a sophisticated omera Global can't crack the jargon.

I find that knocking out 4 front teeth (e.g. Turkana) and scarring the cheeks and forehead (South Sudanese)  is more crude, cruel and prejudiced than peeling the foreskin.

I agree tradition is complex and it's unwise to simply have a blanket ban. I would insist on any procedure being medically approved and carried out by certified medics. That way "mutilation" and infections are eliminated. It's easier to teach the Somali a new way to ensure their daughters will not be promiscous than criminalizing them. Also child marriage and such negative effects of the induced "adulthood" must be outrightly illegal.

[Omollo]

Omollo yawa. I thought labiaplasty was fixing a FGMed woman. You're a sophisticated omera Global can't crack the jargon.

I find that knocking out 4 front teeth (e.g. Turkana) and scarring the cheeks and forehead (South Sudanese)  is more crude, cruel and prejudiced than peeling the foreskin.

I agree tradition is complex and it's unwise to simply have a blanket ban. I would insist on any procedure being medically approved and carried out by certified medics. That way "mutilation" and infections are eliminated. It's easier to teach the Somali a new way to ensure their daughters will not be promiscous than criminalizing them. Also child marriage and such negative effects of the induced "adulthood" must be outrightly illegal.

[Dear Mami]

FGM should be flatly illegal and severely punishable when carried out on any child. The only difficulty is implementation. As soon as any government is able to implement routine medical checks, the law should be severe and merciless. Somethings cannot wait for everyone to agree. A child of ten who has been lied to by her parents that she must go through such mutilation to be ok is in no way freely making an informed choice, leave alone the age issue. I similarly support such bans for other serious things like cosmetic surgeries or sex changes. Ditto child marriages. Decisions like that should be made by adults for themselves. Full stop.

[RV Pundit]

Agreed. Whatever the age of delimiting childhood. In kenya 18yrs old.

FGM should be flatly illegal and severely punishable when carried out on any child. The only difficulty is implementation. As soon as any government is able to implement routine medical checks, the law should be severe and merciless. Somethings cannot wait for everyone to agree. A child of ten who has been lied to by her parents that she must go through such mutilation to be ok is in no way freely making an informed choice, leave alone the age issue. I similarly support such bans for other serious things like cosmetic surgeries or sex changes. Ditto child marriages. Decisions like that should be made by adults for themselves. Full stop.

[Omollo]

I always watch for that red fish when discussing this issue with anybody who can be described the suffix -ist or -ism.

When you bring up the age of 10 and below, ofcourse one has to be a monster to subject his or her kid to such things. Be it vaginal rejuvenation or other invasive intervention.

Like I said we should all probably through an international convention set the age of consent for such operations on the body. I would say it should mirror the age of sexual consent. However countries like Holland allow baboons to have sex with children aged 13. They are even trying to lower it to 12! Now imagine such a country that licences paedophilia is at the forefront of criticizing Somalia and glorifying a Kenyan Somali who cons them that she is from Somalia and they even elect her to Parliament.

Double standards cannot address the issue. One sided focus on female mutilation practiced by the poor while glorifying worse practices by the Rich of the world is doomed to fail.

Iwinjo?

FGM should be flatly illegal and severely punishable when carried out on any child. The only difficulty is implementation. As soon as any government is able to implement routine medical checks, the law should be severe and merciless. Somethings cannot wait for everyone to agree. A child of ten who has been lied to by her parents that she must go through such mutilation to be ok is in no way freely making an informed choice, leave alone the age issue. I similarly support such bans for other serious things like cosmetic surgeries or sex changes. Ditto child marriages. Decisions like that should be made by adults for themselves. Full stop.

[Omollo]

Most societies usually have no objection to delaying it until one is an adult and able to make her own decision. The problem is that NGOs with large amounts of money land and condemn those societies unheard. It is the arrogance and threats plus laws made without listening to the people on the ground. They are invited nay forced  to meetings where the laws and decrees are read down to them directly or on radio.

They listen and say Fuck you on their way home to do their thing.

Agreed. Whatever the age of delimiting childhood. In kenya 18yrs old.