Kenya poverty

[Globalcitizen12]

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Last night I was watching kilifi county videos. The poverty in ganze needs to be addressed. It was just shocking to see emaciated people who look like they are in Nazi concentration camps.

Then there was another. Video showing poverty in homa bay . There was one cripple that has inherited 15 widows most of the suffering from hiv aids. The bugger is having kids right and left.

In ganze constiuency each woman featured had more than 5 Kids. What the fuck? We need to get these morons contraceptives..vascetomy and sterilization would work wonders.
Kenya is fucking poor. Kenya is so poor that the country should be placed on united nations world feeding program..

The oligarchs in Nairobi have no idea who they are representing. Seeing them today eating caviar you would think everyone bathes in mineral water in the rest of Kenya ..as matter of fact we need to move population out places like ganze to Kenyan fertile highlands like my Kenya forest. Fuck the environment let us feed these morons first

We need to do  more to eradicate poverty

[RV Pundit]

How do we address it Mr Global? I say we give them monthly stipend on account of extreme poverty - food stamps - enough to buy them food and meet their basic needs - if we can come up with a way to identify those suffering from absolute poverty - maybe 1M household - then GOK can send them 3k per month - enough to buy food - that will be mere 3B per month or 36B (300M usd) per year - which is pocket change in our nearly 30B budget- or just 1% of the budget - if you add to those already receiving money on account of old age, disability and etc - gok will be committing maybe max of 2% of it's budget to such poor and desperate households. Of course the opportunity cost is say CDF = which receive about the same amount of money - and probably has more impact (building schools etc) than feeding the poor?

Anyway the first task is to find a way to identify such families...it easy to deal with disabled or old age...but how do we determine that xyz is so poor...without any data? Maybe force everyone to file income tax - and the identify the poor from them (good incentive?) -

Maybe establish a poverty fund - finance by gok, donors and foreign aid - whose job is to study and profile such poor families - and provide them with monthly stipend or food stamps.

The ideas that already work in developed world can work here - the difference is just the scale.

[Empedocles]

How do we address it Mr Global? I say we give them monthly stipend on account of extreme poverty - food stamps - enough to buy them food and meet their basic needs - if we can come up with a way to identify those suffering from absolute poverty - maybe 1M household - then GOK can send them 3k per month - enough to buy food - that will be mere 3B per month or 36B (300M usd) per year - which is pocket change in our nearly 30B budget- or just 1% of the budget - if you add to those already receiving money on account of old age, disability and etc - gok will be committing maybe max of 2% of it's budget to such poor and desperate households. Of course the opportunity cost is say CDF = which receive about the same amount of money - and probably has more impact (building schools etc) than feeding the poor?

Anyway the first task is to find a way to identify such families...it easy to deal with disabled or old age...but how do we determine that xyz is so poor...without any data? Maybe force everyone to file income tax - and the identify the poor from them (good incentive?) -

Maybe establish a poverty fund - finance by gok, donors and foreign aid - whose job is to study and profile such poor families - and provide them with monthly stipend or food stamps.

The ideas that already work in developed world can work here - the difference is just the scale.

Just a thought; wouldn't blowing that kind of bucks setting up a manufacturing base (jobs) make much more sense than setting up a welfare system without knowing where the funding is coming from?

[RV Pundit]

The funding will come from taxes. Manufacturing should be set up by private sector. Of course there is opportunity cost. But tell me how you can get 1M jobs paying 3K per month - and we can hand you the 30B tax rebate every year.The reality is whether we are manufacturing giant or not; there will always be poor desperate people; we can dedicate 1% of our taxes (mere 20% of our GDP); to helping them have some food on the table; 3k (30 dollars); imagine feeding 1m with 0.05% of say your GDP;  The same welfare need to be extended to street kids.

Just a thought; wouldn't blowing that kind of bucks setting up a manufacturing base (jobs) make much more sense than setting up a welfare system without knowing where the funding is coming from?

[KenyanPlato]

Pundit,
The situation needs a marshall plan.. One of the ways to do this is to find a way of moving some of this population around.. In kilifi we can move these people to an agricultural rich area, lease the land to a private company that can do commercial farming. this will provide employment opportunities and it would be easier to provide public services to these people.. One thing that is urgent in an area like this is establishment of NGOs funded by GOK to deal with population growth.. Government then should come with a marshall plan to enhance agriculture in the targeted areas through policy and some funding

[RV Pundit]

We have vision 2030. Really no need trying ideas of Mr Marshall that worked in Europe. Europe after war is different from Kenya now. Marshall plan is recovery plan. That is country say like South Africa goes to war and after war it's economy is devastated - then you look at Mr Marshall ideas. Ours is more serious..more benign..there is nothing to recovery from...you're starting from ancient society that need to get to 21st century in a generation or two...and there is no silver bullet...all those ideas..are great..commercial farming or manufacturing...but we now as of today..have many millions of poor desperate people. The job of gok is to use the taxes it get...ours is mere 20% of GDP...to build infrastructure, provide welfare and gov services.....gov should simply continue to mainly work on facilitate infrastructure and making sure the gov bureaucracy works (ease of doing business)....then hopefully private sector can create opportunities, attract fdi and capital...and create jobs..over a long period of time.

Bottomline: Let's not conflate gov job. The job for me is mainly 1) provide gov services - security, id cards, etc etc 2) build & maintain infrastructure -roads, rails, 3) provide welfare/social/public services - education, health, -and I am suggesting adding food stamps/monthly remittance.

This is true for every gov - whether it developed or not - what should matter is the SCALE. We can only build roads say worth 2B dollars annually - US maybe does 100 times more? But we should build roads? Also we are not poor to provide food stamps or remittance to poor - we maybe give them 2,000 dollars like in developed world - but nothing prevent us from sending them 20 dollars.

Pundit,
The situation needs a marshall plan.. One of the ways to do this is to find a way of moving some of this population around.. In kilifi we can move these people to an agricultural rich area, lease the land to a private company that can do commercial farming. this will provide employment opportunities and it would be easier to provide public services to these people.. One thing that is urgent in an area like this is establishment of NGOs funded by GOK to deal with population growth.. Government then should come with a marshall plan to enhance agriculture in the targeted areas through policy and some funding

[Globalcitizen12]

How do we address it Mr Global? I say we give them monthly stipend on account of extreme poverty - food stamps - enough to buy them food and meet their basic needs - if we can come up with a way to identify those suffering from absolute poverty - maybe 1M household - then GOK can send them 3k per month - enough to buy food - that will be mere 3B per month or 36B (300M usd) per year - which is pocket change in our nearly 30B budget- or just 1% of the budget - if you add to those already receiving money on account of old age, disability and etc - gok will be committing maybe max of 2% of it's budget to such poor and desperate households. Of course the opportunity cost is say CDF = which receive about the same amount of money - and probably has more impact (building schools etc) than feeding the poor?

Anyway the first task is to find a way to identify such families...it easy to deal with disabled or old age...but how do we determine that xyz is so poor...without any data? Maybe force everyone to file income tax - and the identify the poor from them (good incentive?) -

Maybe establish a poverty fund - finance by gok, donors and foreign aid - whose job is to study and profile such poor families - and provide them with monthly stipend or food stamps.

The ideas that already work in developed world can work here - the difference is just the scale.

Reread what you just wrote..you been sucking usaid teat till you starting to be ridiculous..a woman who cannot feed her under malnuorished kids is poor..all you need is a tape measure to measure kids head circumference to realize who is poor of the poor..in kilifi there is only rich of the poor..Yaani you have 100 shs and everyone else has 1 shs .. you're still poor..

I think education, a feeding program and a food for work program will be a start. Then expand tourism in kilifi area and give incentives to hotel operators to hire locals only..start an employment program where those skilled in this area are given jobs outside the region and are helped to keep these jobs

Many things jubilee can do

[bryan275]

How do we address it Mr Global? I say we give them monthly stipend on account of extreme poverty - food stamps - enough to buy them food and meet their basic needs - if we can come up with a way to identify those suffering from absolute poverty - maybe 1M household - then GOK can send them 3k per month - enough to buy food - that will be mere 3B per month or 36B (300M usd) per year - which is pocket change in our nearly 30B budget- or just 1% of the budget - if you add to those already receiving money on account of old age, disability and etc - gok will be committing maybe max of 2% of it's budget to such poor and desperate households. Of course the opportunity cost is say CDF = which receive about the same amount of money - and probably has more impact (building schools etc) than feeding the poor?

Anyway the first task is to find a way to identify such families...it easy to deal with disabled or old age...but how do we determine that xyz is so poor...without any data? Maybe force everyone to file income tax - and the identify the poor from them (good incentive?) -

Maybe establish a poverty fund - finance by gok, donors and foreign aid - whose job is to study and profile such poor families - and provide them with monthly stipend or food stamps.

The ideas that already work in developed world can work here - the difference is just the scale.

Reread what you just wrote..you been sucking usaid teat till you starting to be ridiculous..a woman who cannot feed her under malnuorished kids is poor..all you need is a tape measure to measure kids head circumference to realize who is poor of the poor..in kilifi there is only rich of the poor..Yaani you have 100 shs and everyone else has 1 shs .. you're still poor..

I think education, a feeding program and a food for work program will be a start. Then expand tourism in kilifi area and give incentives to hotel operators to hire locals only..start an employment program where those skilled in this area are given jobs outside the region and are helped to keep these jobs

Many things jubilee can do

Wololo...

[KenyanPlato]

]Here are Kilifi statistics at glance

Poverty rate is 68%

so it won't take a genius to find out who is poor

[KenyanPlato]

https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/F960F52B0488A36A492574170024147F-Full_Report.pdf

[RV Pundit]

Expand tourism like how? Education (done - free primary - free secondary - nearly free university), feeding program (done?) and same with those ideas - they don't work - if they worked US will do the same to beggar of the US or the many poor families in US in food stamps.

Let me tell you what works in our "USAID" circles - simply sending these people REGULAR Cash transfers via M-pesa or something like that. Just enough to buy food. It works in US. It works in Europe. And it should work in Kenya. These other myriads of ideas don't work or scale up. Education works - definitely - just gurantee everyone free basic education. But setting up feeding programs or food for work is so difficult and so impractical - it simply has negative impact. Imagine trucking Maize all the way from Illionois or mid-America then shipping it to Mombasa - then trucking it the yellow maize to Kilifi - just to feed those people?

Doesn't make send - send them moeny every month as long as they are poor - let them buy food from their local dukas. End of story.The start of the story. The NGOS, private sectors and everyone else can chip in ...with tourism ideas, farming ideas, fishing ideas, whatever works in small scale in those locales.

Reread what you just wrote..you been sucking usaid teat till you starting to be ridiculous..a woman who cannot feed her under malnuorished kids is poor..all you need is a tape measure to measure kids head circumference to realize who is poor of the poor..in kilifi there is only rich of the poor..Yaani you have 100 shs and everyone else has 1 shs .. you're still poor..

I think education, a feeding program and a food for work program will be a start. Then expand tourism in kilifi area and give incentives to hotel operators to hire locals only..start an employment program where those skilled in this area are given jobs outside the region and are helped to keep these jobs

Many things jubilee can do

[Globalcitizen12]

Expand tourism like how? Education (done - free primary - free secondary - nearly free university), feeding program (done?) and same with those ideas - they don't work - if they worked US will do the same to beggar of the US or the many poor families in US in food stamps.

Let me tell you what works in our "USAID" circles - simply sending these people REGULAR Cash transfers via M-pesa or something like that. Just enough to buy food.

Reread what you just wrote..you been sucking usaid teat till you starting to be ridiculous..a woman who cannot feed her under malnuorished kids is poor..all you need is a tape measure to measure kids head circumference to realize who is poor of the poor..in kilifi there is only rich of the poor..Yaani you have 100 shs and everyone else has 1 shs .. you're still poor..

I think education, a feeding program and a food for work program will be a start. Then expand tourism in kilifi area and give incentives to hotel operators to hire locals only..start an employment program where those skilled in this area are given jobs outside the region and are helped to keep these jobs

Many things jubilee can do

Educate yourself on welfare reforms of the 1990s and how they got millions off the government teat. your usaid nonsense is meant for a disabled person..we can have welfare for the old and children others should be placed on food for work program..dummy you can expand tourism and fisheries by not taxing it and giving certain incentives to tour operators

[RV Pundit]

These are poor of the poorest - I don't think they even energy for work or for tourist - so first lets get some data - let get those desperate on cash transfer instead of sending yellow maize to them - then the rest  can be put into those ideas.

Welfare is a reality. There will always be poor people. Many poor but able. But still poor with kids - suffering long term effects of malnutrition and etc. And they are everywhere including in Kijabe - and so for me - we just need to find them and help them put at least food in their table.

Educate yourself on welfare reforms of the 1990s and how they got millions off the government teat. your usaid nonsense is meant for a disabled person..we can have welfare for the old and children others should be placed on food for work program..dummy you can expand tourism and fisheries by not taxing it and giving certain incentives to tour operators

[Globalcitizen12]

It is pragmatic what you say ..however such an idea is very limited as a measure. Of fighting poverty

[RV Pundit]

Of course - we can start with those poor and living in arid areas - street families - those with malnurished kids -those without any tall relatives to help them- the problem is who identifies them? If you ask the chiefs - they will put their relatives in the list? Maybe we can say every location should appoint 10 (or weighted by poverty scale) really poor people to that database? Then we can put them into some welfare fund - and send them m-pesa every week or month - enough to buy food.

Then we can worry about welfare dependency later?

It is pragmatic what you say ..however such an idea is very limited as a measure. Of fighting poverty

[Nefertiti]

Most developed countries - Sweden, US, Finland, etc - have a form of welfare mainly food stumps and homeless shelters. The US even has "sanctuary cities" for new immigrants. Recently super-rich Switzerland proposed a universal welfare scheme - because poor-only welfare is very unpopular - which was also defeated in referendum. Switzerland is the richest country with some folks below poverty line due to income disparity. These are direct cash payments.

Kenya should keep up M-Pesa stipend program for the old and disabled - which of course is full of nepotism, corruption and abuse by chiefs. It is possible to pay poor people per county using NGOs who are more professional and honest - and thus more effective - to pay stipend to super-poor folks. NGOs already run street or orphan shelters all over so they are already dedicated and organized. Much better than chiefs. World Vision for instance can provide reliable stats on poverty per sub-county because it is non-political.

Global what is food-for-work? Do you get githeri or omena instead of cash?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

No jobs.  That is the crux of the problem.  Lots of bodies consuming dwindling resources and generating little more than biological waste.

[RV Pundit]

True that. I think we should continue adding beneficiary to that fund - we already covered orphans, old, disabled an vulnerable...we can add those suffering from terminal diseases...those with more than x (5) number of kids and are not employed...after dealing with "targetting" issue...we also need to stamp out fraud and such..by directly sending the money to beneficiary and doing random surveys or calls on them to establish if indeed they are poor...in fact it possible to know if they are poor by asking safaricom to give your their profiles (airtime spend, m-pesa transactions, the works).

Most developed countries - Sweden, US, Finland, etc - have a form of welfare mainly food stumps and homeless shelters. The US even has "sanctuary cities" for new immigrants. Recently super-rich Switzerland proposed a universal welfare scheme - because poor-only welfare is very unpopular - which was also defeated in referendum. Switzerland is the richest country with some folks below poverty line due to income disparity. These are direct cash payments.

Kenya should keep up M-Pesa stipend program for the old and disabled - which of course is full of nepotism, corruption and abuse by chiefs. It is possible to pay poor people per county using NGOs who are more professional and honest - and thus more effective - to pay stipend to super-poor folks. NGOs already run street or orphan shelters all over so they are already dedicated and organized. Much better than chiefs. World Vision for instance can provide reliable stats on poverty per sub-county because it is non-political.

Global what is food-for-work? Do you get githeri or omena instead of cash?

[Georgesoros]

Poverty kitu gani
http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-kids-of-zimbabwe-flaunt-wealth-instagram-2017-11/#the-two-have-been-referred-to-as-zimbabwes-kardashians-6

[MOON Ki]

How do we address it Mr Global? I say we give them monthly stipend on account of extreme poverty - food stamps - enough to buy them food and meet their basic needs - if we can come up with a way to identify those suffering from absolute poverty - maybe 1M household - then GOK can send them 3k per month - enough to buy food - that will be mere 3B per month or 36B (300M usd) per year - which is pocket change in our nearly 30B budget- or just 1% of the budget - if you add to those already receiving money on account of old age, disability and etc - gok will be committing maybe max of 2% of it's budget to such poor and desperate households. Of course the opportunity cost is say CDF = which receive about the same amount of money - and probably has more impact (building schools etc) than feeding the poor?

I'm not sure that it is that simple.   If it were, then, presumably, the GoK would not be relying on the World Bank's to substantially support the existing cash-transfer programmes.  (DFID and others have also been doing their bit.) GoK would, I imagine, just take a bit more "pocket change" from its "huge budget" (for which it already has to borrow on a regular basis)

After a year of consultations and planning, the government of Kenya and the World Bank finally signed the agreement to establish the National Safety Net Programme. The signing ceremony took place at the National Treasury in Nairobi on 16 September 2013.

The establishment of the NSNP ushers in a new way of doing things in the Cash Transfer Programmes where results will precede disbursement of funds.  The 4 years programme is supported by the World Bank under a Programme for Results operation, implying that disbursement of funds will only be made upon achievement of agreed results, attained within an agreed period of time.

http://www.socialprotection.or.ke/information-center/news-and-events/131-government-signs-off-national-safety-net-programme

According to the World Bank's pages, their funding of the programme runs out next year:

http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/576081491486500571/Kenya-National-Safety-Net-Program-for-Results-P131305-Implementation-Status-Results-Report-Sequence-07

So, before planning for 1 million, I'd first consider how the current lot will be funded after the non-trivial external contribution dries up.

And then there's food.  It is all very well to say "give them money or whatever to buy food".   At the very least, for that to work food has to be readily available and at reasonable prices.   In that respect, Kenya's endless inability to ensure food security and its constant begging for food is not encouraging.

That said, I see some good in such programs; they can and have had positive effects in several places.  What I fail to see in places like Kenya is anything resembling a plan for long-term sustainability of the basic program and any real attempt to deal with poverty (beyond a little help for the most desperate).  To start on the right path like that, it seems to me that people should give up on mindsets such as that shown here:

Maybe establish a poverty fund - finance by gok, donors and foreign aid.   

Other than issues of self-respect and people being able to fend for themselves, taxpayers in the "donor" and "foreign aid" countries probably would not be too unhappy if the first parts of some plans did not have "handouts!" in big, red letters.

The other thing that is especially in important a place like Kenya is the World Bank has delicately referred to as "fiduciary problems".   That's people eating, but not food and not the people who are supposed to be eating food in the programme.   The "fiduciary problems" also means that plenty of noise will be made about 1-million-acre Galana project, and there will be plenty of eating from that ... just not of food.