After epic failure as demo fatigue sets in - NASA call off today demo

[Nefertiti]

bryan it's okay to back your guys without the naivete. The only reason the NASA amigos are together is not shared vision for Wanjiku or Fatuma, rather lack of choice in the forced marriage. Recall upto 2012 VP Kalonzo & Raila were fierce rivals. "Watermelon", "Judas" where did those come from?

If you actually believe Kenya would transform under any political party There is no martial law or oppressive taxation or even Nyayo torture squads. Kenya is open society and poverty is caused by insulation, polarization and lack of exposure. There is equal opportunity for success or misery, it's not limited by tribe.

You do not believe the above do you?  Have you reviewed Uhuruto appointment schedule?  Have you seen the skewed "development"?  Cancellation of loans?  Coffee loans, illegal title deeds etc?

I see. You should visit Kirinyaga or Meru and discover those pampered Kenyans do not meet the UN $2 er day poverty index. Kenya's tribalism just exacerbates the battle for equality in misery. Like Pundit was saying how big is the civil service - 200K - and everyone is crying that 30% of those are Kikuyu. Out of 15m employable adults.

That's what I mean no party would transform anything. With $20b national budget - partly borrowed - you don't even get national bursary. That's a lie being peddled. People are wondering why they are still poor and jobless since they now have a tribesmate as governor. Even at 50% devolution we will be poorer than ever.

By opportunity I don't mean to be a clerk at the government offie. Or the right to grow uneconomical crops. I mean the opportunity to build things. Create industry. Run enterprise. All have access to capital and information. Open society is the real democracy.

[Globalcitizen12]

Robina you really summarized the issue. For now it is best for wanjiku to ignore the political class and continue suffering silently

[Kichwa]

You have to resolve the political issues first before you can have stability and economic growth.  The pundit school of thought which prescribes that you can have corruption, tribalism, economic marginalization, two tribes ruling for 20 years and still achieve economic development is silly.  If you are really concerned about the suffering of regular Kenyans then stop rubbishing those who are trying to find a political solution to our problems. This winner take all presidential system where kikuyus and Kalenjins have figured out a way to rig the elections and stay in power to perpetuity is not acceptable and therefore will not work.  We will not be colonized by Arap Mashamba.  The only way forward is to go back to the drawing boards and design a system which is politically fair and then we will get political stability and then economic growth and economic development will follow.  You cannot climb this tree from the top. 

bryan it's okay to back your guys without the naivete. The only reason the NASA amigos are together is not shared vision for Wanjiku or Fatuma, rather lack of choice in the forced marriage. Recall upto 2012 VP Kalonzo & Raila were fierce rivals. "Watermelon", "Judas" where did those come from?

If you actually believe Kenya would transform under any political party There is no martial law or oppressive taxation or even Nyayo torture squads. Kenya is open society and poverty is caused by insulation, polarization and lack of exposure. There is equal opportunity for success or misery, it's not limited by tribe.

You do not believe the above do you?  Have you reviewed Uhuruto appointment schedule?  Have you seen the skewed "development"?  Cancellation of loans?  Coffee loans, illegal title deeds etc?

I see. You should visit Kirinyaga or Meru and discover those pampered Kenyans do not meet the UN $2 er day poverty index. Kenya's tribalism just exacerbates the battle for equality in misery. Like Pundit was saying how big is the civil service - 200K - and everyone is crying that 30% of those are Kikuyu. Out of 15m employable adults.

That's what I mean no party would transform anything. With $20b national budget - partly borrowed - you don't even get national bursary. That's a lie being peddled. People are wondering why they are still poor and jobless since they now have a tribesmate as governor. Even at 50% devolution we will be poorer than ever.

By opportunity I don't mean to be a clerk at the government offie. Or the right to grow uneconomical crops. I mean the opportunity to build things. Create industry. Run enterprise. All have access to capital and information. Open society is the real democracy.

[Nefertiti]

We had the opportunity for that equitable system... instead we ended up with pure presidency worse than before. Championed by the people now clamoring to overthrow it.

That's my contention about the present struggle. It's not about the people but the ruling class.

You have to resolve the political issues first before you can have stability and economic growth.  The pundit school of thought which prescribes that you can have corruption, tribalism, economic marginalization, two tribes ruling for 20 years and still achieve economic development is silly.  If you are really concerned about the suffering of regular Kenyans then stop rubbishing those who are trying to find a political solution to our problems. This winner take all presidential system where kikuyus and Kalenjins have figured out a way to rig the elections and stay in power to perpetuity is not acceptable and therefore will not work.  We will not be colonized by Arap Mashamba.  The only way forward is to go back to the drawing boards and design a system which is politically fair and then we will get political stability and then economic growth and economic development will follow.  You cannot climb this tree from the top. 

[RV Pundit]

I think we have enough examples to show that dictatorship doesn't determine the economic fate of a family or company or country. I know many families who have suceeded but are ran by small despots in their villages. We know at micro-level that people who succeed generally worked harder, were more responsible, saved more, invested more, didn't abuse drugs and etc - they didn't have to be happiest democratic family out there. We know of China and many countries who give lip services to democracy and human rights - but have lifted many out of poverty. We have big democracies like India or Kenya - wallowing in poverty. Dubai & entire middle east is not democratic - but they have developed.

Economic development is different ball game. Kenyans need to focus on reforms that deliver economic benefits - lets argue about which gok will electricity our village more, which one will provide more roads, more clean and piped water, more free schools, free medical care, more security services, etc etc. And go slow on political  & social reforms. It been a waste of time.

We need to focus on bread and butter issues. At end of the day one or two people will ran the show. Not tribes. Ruto or Uhuru don't equate to Kalenjin or Kikuyu running the show. I am always excited when I read reforms touching on bread-n-butter issues.

Expending all the energy to make Raila PORK will not help anybody who is not close to him.

You have to resolve the political issues first before you can have stability and economic growth.  The pundit school of thought which prescribes that you can have corruption, tribalism, economic marginalization, two tribes ruling for 20 years and still achieve economic development is silly.  If you are really concerned about the suffering of regular Kenyans then stop rubbishing those who are trying to find a political solution to our problems. This winner take all presidential system where kikuyus and Kalenjins have figured out a way to rig the elections and stay in power to perpetuity is not acceptable and therefore will not work.  We will not be colonized by Arap Mashamba.  The only way forward is to go back to the drawing boards and design a system which is politically fair and then we will get political stability and then economic growth and economic development will follow.  You cannot climb this tree from the top. 

[Kichwa]

You need economic stability whether through dictatorship like in Rwanda or through democracy.  Kenya is way past the point where you can institute a stable dictatorship like Rwanda because Kenyans have already took a bite at the forbidden fruit and are no longer innocent.  The only way to institute a stable government in Kenya is through a negotiated democracy where power is shared by all major stakeholders in a meaningful way.  So long as you are still harboring thoughts of winner take all Kikuyu/kalenjin domination aided by a well oiled election rigging machine then you can forget about a stable governance that can produce economic prosperity for all.

I think we have enough examples to show that dictatorship doesn't determine the economic fate of a family or company or country. I know many families who have suceeded but are ran by small despots in their villages. We know at micro-level that people who succeed generally worked harder, were more responsible, saved more, invested more, didn't abuse drugs and etc - they didn't have to be happiest democratic family out there. We know of China and many countries who give lip services to democracy and human rights - but have lifted many out of poverty. We have big democracies like India or Kenya - wallowing in poverty. Dubai & entire middle east is not democratic - but they have developed.

Economic development is different ball game. Kenyans need to focus on reforms that deliver economic benefits - lets argue about which gok will electricity our village more, which one will provide more roads, more clean and piped water, more free schools, free medical care, more security services, etc etc. And go slow on political  & social reforms. It been a waste of time.

We need to focus on bread and butter issues. At end of the day one or two people will ran the show. Not tribes. Ruto or Uhuru don't equate to Kalenjin or Kikuyu running the show. I am always excited when I read reforms touching on bread-n-butter issues.

Expending all the energy to make Raila PORK will not help anybody who is not close to him.

You have to resolve the political issues first before you can have stability and economic growth.  The pundit school of thought which prescribes that you can have corruption, tribalism, economic marginalization, two tribes ruling for 20 years and still achieve economic development is silly.  If you are really concerned about the suffering of regular Kenyans then stop rubbishing those who are trying to find a political solution to our problems. This winner take all presidential system where kikuyus and Kalenjins have figured out a way to rig the elections and stay in power to perpetuity is not acceptable and therefore will not work.  We will not be colonized by Arap Mashamba.  The only way forward is to go back to the drawing boards and design a system which is politically fair and then we will get political stability and then economic growth and economic development will follow.  You cannot climb this tree from the top. 

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

You have to resolve the political issues first before you can have stability and economic growth.  The pundit school of thought which prescribes that you can have corruption, tribalism, economic marginalization, two tribes ruling for 20 years and still achieve economic development is silly.  If you are really concerned about the suffering of regular Kenyans then stop rubbishing those who are trying to find a political solution to our problems. This winner take all presidential system where kikuyus and Kalenjins have figured out a way to rig the elections and stay in power to perpetuity is not acceptable and therefore will not work.  We will not be colonized by Arap Mashamba.  The only way forward is to go back to the drawing boards and design a system which is politically fair and then we will get political stability and then economic growth and economic development will follow.  You cannot climb this tree from the top. 

bryan it's okay to back your guys without the naivete. The only reason the NASA amigos are together is not shared vision for Wanjiku or Fatuma, rather lack of choice in the forced marriage. Recall upto 2012 VP Kalonzo & Raila were fierce rivals. "Watermelon", "Judas" where did those come from?

If you actually believe Kenya would transform under any political party There is no martial law or oppressive taxation or even Nyayo torture squads. Kenya is open society and poverty is caused by insulation, polarization and lack of exposure. There is equal opportunity for success or misery, it's not limited by tribe.

You do not believe the above do you?  Have you reviewed Uhuruto appointment schedule?  Have you seen the skewed "development"?  Cancellation of loans?  Coffee loans, illegal title deeds etc?

I see. You should visit Kirinyaga or Meru and discover those pampered Kenyans do not meet the UN $2 er day poverty index. Kenya's tribalism just exacerbates the battle for equality in misery. Like Pundit was saying how big is the civil service - 200K - and everyone is crying that 30% of those are Kikuyu. Out of 15m employable adults.

That's what I mean no party would transform anything. With $20b national budget - partly borrowed - you don't even get national bursary. That's a lie being peddled. People are wondering why they are still poor and jobless since they now have a tribesmate as governor. Even at 50% devolution we will be poorer than ever.

By opportunity I don't mean to be a clerk at the government offie. Or the right to grow uneconomical crops. I mean the opportunity to build things. Create industry. Run enterprise. All have access to capital and information. Open society is the real democracy.

Yep.  You can't divorce economic fortunes of mwananchi from the politics(not necessarily political system) of the place.  They are two sides of the same coin.

[vooke]

[Kichwa]

You cannot even get to deal with corruption and the equitable distribution of resources until you agree on the political framework upon which all this will take place. The sooner people like Ouru and Ruto realizes that the time that you could do a Rwanda in Kenya is over, the better for all of us. The plot to institute dictatorship by perfecting the instruments of rigging elections is already thwarted.  Arap Mashamba had already heavily invested in this infrastructure which they thought was full-proof and would assure them the presidency for 100 years.

We now have to go back to the drawing board. Whether its the strict western democracy or some concoction, the bottom line is that it must be agreed upon and open for re negotiation each time the parties are not happy.  A diversified nation like ours is like  a marriage whose terms has to be constantly renegotiated with changes in circumstances so that everybody is relatively happy and content with the rules of engagement. When Ruto and Ouru signaled that they have figured a way to keep the government shifting like a ping pong game between kikuyus and Kalenjins, then the arrangement we currently have became unworkable and unacceptable.   

[vooke]

You cannot even get to deal with corruption and the equitable distribution of resources until you agree on the political framework upon which all this will take place. The sooner people like Ouru and Ruto realizes that the time that you could do a Rwanda in Kenya is over, the better for all of us. The plot to institute dictatorship by perfecting the instruments of rigging elections is already thwarted.  Arap Mashamba had already heavily invested in this infrastructure which they thought was full-proof and would assure them the presidency for 100 years.

We now have to go back to the drawing board. Whether its the strict western democracy or some concoction, the bottom line is that it must be agreed upon and open for re negotiation each time the parties are not happy.  A diversified nation like ours is like  a marriage whose terms has to be constantly renegotiated with changes in circumstances so that everybody is relatively happy and content with the rules of engagement. When Ruto and Ouru signaled that they have figured a way to keep the government shifting like a ping pong game between kikuyus and Kalenjins, then the arrangement we currently have became unworkable and unacceptable.   

Yeah, we must include Babu into the mix

[RV Pundit]

Yeah that is all I am reading - we must re-configure and reform until we somehow get Babu into power. An impossible feat it seem.

Yeah, we must include Babu into the mix

[Nefertiti]

  the other day some bitter liberals wanted to replace the EC with the tyranny of numbers... after Trump won. They had a long voodoo narrative why we need the reforms which they said are long overdue.

Kichwa can't explain why he supported the new constitution with a pure presidency and 15% devolution. Or why he supported Kanu-NDP merger. Of course he now wants reforms - to parliamentary federalism - complete with a new IEBC. It's a mere concidence that Raila wants the same thing.

Yeah that is all I am reading - we must re-configure and reform until we somehow get Babu into power. An impossible feat it seem.

Yeah, we must include Babu into the mix

[vooke]

the other day some bitter liberals wanted to replace the EC with the tyranny of numbers... after Trump won. They had a long voodoo narrative why we need the reforms which they said are long overdue.

Kichwa can't explain why he supported the new constitution with a pure presidency and 15% devolution. Or why he supported Kanu-NDP merger. Of course he now wants reforms - to parliamentary federalism - complete with a new IEBC. It's a mere concidence that Raila wants the same thing.

Yeah that is all I am reading - we must re-configure and reform until we somehow get Babu into power. An impossible feat it seem.

Yeah, we must include Babu into the mix

His ready response is it is cheap to reduce everything to Babu, meaning it is cheap to call him out

[Nefertiti]

the other day some bitter liberals wanted to replace the EC with the tyranny of numbers... after Trump won. They had a long voodoo narrative why we need the reforms which they said are long overdue.

Kichwa can't explain why he supported the new constitution with a pure presidency and 15% devolution. Or why he supported Kanu-NDP merger. Of course he now wants reforms - to parliamentary federalism - complete with a new IEBC. It's a mere concidence that Raila wants the same thing.

Yeah that is all I am reading - we must re-configure and reform until we somehow get Babu into power. An impossible feat it seem.

Yeah, we must include Babu into the mix

His ready response is it is cheap to reduce everything to Babu, meaning it is cheap to call him out

Pastor please don't feed me words. This is not sarcasm - I actually believe Kichwa wants to reform for posterity.

[vooke]

the other day some bitter liberals wanted to replace the EC with the tyranny of numbers... after Trump won. They had a long voodoo narrative why we need the reforms which they said are long overdue.

Kichwa can't explain why he supported the new constitution with a pure presidency and 15% devolution. Or why he supported Kanu-NDP merger. Of course he now wants reforms - to parliamentary federalism - complete with a new IEBC. It's a mere concidence that Raila wants the same thing.

Yeah that is all I am reading - we must re-configure and reform until we somehow get Babu into power. An impossible feat it seem.

Yeah, we must include Babu into the mix

His ready response is it is cheap to reduce everything to Babu, meaning it is cheap to call him out

Pastor please don't feed me words. This is not sarcasm - I actually believe Kichwa wants to reform for posterity.

Me too, so long as Babu is in the mix.