Author Topic: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions  (Read 2309 times)

Offline vooke

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NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« on: September 19, 2017, 06:34:18 AM »
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https://nasacoalition.com/2017/08/25/kenya-trial-truth-justice-supreme-court/

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https://www.kenyans.co.ke/news/21947-musalia-mudavadi-asks-supreme-court-judges-read-individual-ruling-presidential-petition
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 06:49:30 AM »
I don't see them doing that - I think they will all hide under one judgement.

Offline vooke

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 07:35:11 AM »
I don't see them doing that - I think they will all hide under one judgement.

Me too. I also think it is not in NASWA's interest that the individual decisions be read out; it makes criticizing the decision much easy and may seriously weaken their case against IEBC
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 07:41:42 AM »
They have to bolster each other arguments considering in my view this is weak case that has to be propped. Njoki and Ojwang did separate dissenting summaries- so you can expect they'll do the same.
Me too. I also think it is not in NASWA's interest that the individual decisions be read out; it makes criticizing the decision much easy and may seriously weaken their case against IEBC

Offline bryan275

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 08:24:51 AM »
They have to bolster each other arguments considering in my view this is weak case that has to be propped. Njoki and Ojwang did separate dissenting summaries- so you can expect they'll do the same.
Me too. I also think it is not in NASWA's interest that the individual decisions be read out; it makes criticizing the decision much easy and may seriously weaken their case against IEBC

Weak case?  Jesus...

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 08:29:29 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 08:37:40 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
What was NASWA demanding? 'concurring rulings'?
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 08:42:22 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
What was NASWA demanding? 'concurring rulings'?

I have no idea.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 08:49:51 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
What was NASWA demanding? 'concurring rulings'?

I have no idea.

Asante.
I note calls for individual ruling died out almost immediately after the determination in their favour. Perhaps Jubilee should pick it up from there
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 08:57:42 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
What was NASWA demanding? 'concurring rulings'?

I have no idea.

Asante.
I note calls for individual ruling died out almost immediately after the determination in their favour. Perhaps Jubilee should pick it up from there

Whatever one calls it, they are either concurring or dissenting to the main ruling.  Separate consenting opinions are usually when the judge feels they need to emphasize some principle or aspect of the main ruling.  Chile Eboe-Osuji almost always has them.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 09:01:18 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
What was NASWA demanding? 'concurring rulings'?

I have no idea.

Asante.
I note calls for individual ruling died out almost immediately after the determination in their favour. Perhaps Jubilee should pick it up from there

Whatever one calls it, they are either concurring or dissenting to the main ruling.  Separate consenting opinions are usually when the judge feels they need to emphasize some principle or aspect of the main ruling.  Chile Eboe-Osuji almost always has them.

NASWA appears to have been demanding for no collective ruling but rather from the summary each judge renders their detailed opinion either for or against.
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 09:57:44 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
Many courts operate that way (ICJ, European Court of Human Rights, SCOTUS), which is the best way IMO, and a middle way between two opposites: one is many individual pieces representing the majority and the other is where you have one piece remaining completely opaque about individual judges' thoughts (like the European Court of Justice). There are pros and cons to all but this one where you have one main judgment with separate opinions for those who wish to write them provides both clarity and some ability to "interrogate" individuals and study their judicial philosophy. Multiple ones without one of them being the "official" one would definitely lead to confusion where there are contradictions on finer but crucial points between judges who otherwise agree in large part.

Even if the decision is split between the judges, so some write on some issues and others different ones, as long as they do so on behalf of the majority and this is clear, it should be fine. Maybe NASA thought that asking for individual pieces would lead to each judge being more "responsible" but I think its always better to have a major decision at least on each of the points of dispute and then where judges feel they agree with the conclusion but not some aspect of the reasoning or they wish to stress something further as you put it, or just dissent completely, they can do so in separate opinions. But lower courts will be better served with an authoritative reasoning that represents the majority decision on each point of dispute so that they will know what the law is. In any case, the court is free to develop its own tradition in this regard like other top courts, parties can't force them.

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 10:29:43 AM »
They have to bolster each other arguments considering in my view this is weak case that has to be propped. Njoki and Ojwang did separate dissenting summaries- so you can expect they'll do the same.
Me too. I also think it is not in NASWA's interest that the individual decisions be read out; it makes criticizing the decision much easy and may seriously weaken their case against IEBC
Lol. Pundit, You genuinely believe that these experienced judges are somewhere in a corner struggling to write a judgment. What do you think is giving them trouble? The legal provisions ama nini? C'mon. Have you seen that ridiculous interpretation the last SCOK gave "fresh elections" where they didn't even bother relying on any law? Whatever this judgment says, you can bet it'll be TONNES better than last time.

Offline vooke

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 10:36:39 AM »
Usually it's one full ruling.  And then separate concurring or dissenting rulings.  ICC style.
Many courts operate that way (ICJ, European Court of Human Rights, SCOTUS), which is the best way IMO, and a middle way between two opposites: one is many individual pieces representing the majority and the other is where you have one piece remaining completely opaque about individual judges' thoughts (like the European Court of Justice). There are pros and cons to all but this one where you have one main judgment with separate opinions for those who wish to write them provides both clarity and some ability to "interrogate" individuals and study their judicial philosophy. Multiple ones without one of them being the "official" one would definitely lead to confusion where there are contradictions on finer but crucial points between judges who otherwise agree in large part.

Even if the decision is split between the judges, so some write on some issues and others different ones, as long as they do so on behalf of the majority and this is clear, it should be fine. Maybe NASA thought that asking for individual pieces would lead to each judge being more "responsible" but I think its always better to have a major decision at least on each of the points of dispute and then where judges feel they agree with the conclusion but not some aspect of the reasoning or they wish to stress something further as you put it, or just dissent completely, they can do so in separate opinions. But lower courts will be better served with an authoritative reasoning that represents the majority decision on each point of dispute so that they will know what the law is. In any case, the court is free to develop its own tradition in this regard like other top courts, parties can't force them.
Asante kadame,
It's murkier than I thought but clearer with your input.
Was you aware of NASWA's demands to this effect before the determination?
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kadame7

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 10:46:02 AM »
No I wasnt. You told me juzi in another thread or was it jana?

Offline vooke

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Re: NASWA: The Judges should write their individual decisions
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 11:04:06 AM »
No I wasnt. You told me juzi in another thread or was it jana?
Ok.
Asante sana
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.