60 Days to re-run

[vooke]

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Legal minds,
Is it possible to tweak this constitutional clause without a referendum?

[Kadame7]

The truth is, Supreme Courts can pretty much make the law of their countries say whatever they want. I'm sure they could find something in the Constitution that they could use to justify this if they wanted to do that. HOWEVER, while I didn't follow the petition, everything I've seen from these judges indicates that they take the timelines of the Constitution as seriously as any other section of the constitution, so I DO NOT see that happening myself.  However, I remember there was a controversy about the timing of the first elections held under this Constitution. It was pushed by a few months because the IEBC just wasn't ready and kina Martha Karua vigorously protested the unconstitutionality of that move but it eventually got the Judiciary's stamp of approval. I don't remember if it was litigated all the way up to the Supreme Court though. I remember thinking they(SCORK) chickened out of a case but I am not sure if it was that case or another where they basically refused to take it up and allowed the decision of the lower court to stand.

[vooke]

All you need to study about the petition on the timelines is the determination. That's the only point this was mentioned.

(iii) An order is hereby issued directing the 1st Respondent
to organize and conduct a fresh Presidential Election
in strict conformity with the Constitution and the
applicable election laws within 60 days of this
determination under Article 140(3) of the
Constitution.

I mean is it clear cut that parliament can amend this bit by super majority?

[Kadame7]

All you need to study about the petition on the timelines is the determination. That's the only point this was mentioned.

(iii) An order is hereby issued directing the 1st Respondent
to organize and conduct a fresh Presidential Election
in strict conformity with the Constitution and the
applicable election laws within 60 days of this
determination under Article 140(3) of the
Constitution.

Well sure, but they also made sure to stick to their own deadline despite IEBC refusal to allow servers scrutiny. If they had a "flexible" attitude towards their timelines I think they could have pushed the IEBC further on this.

[vooke]

I edited my first reply.

What I'm asking is whether the issue of 60 days can be amended by a super majority in parliament. I understand some issues such as bill of rights must be subjected to referendum. What about 60-days? Or is it subject to legal circus?

[Kadame7]

I edited my first reply.

What I'm asking is whether the issue of 60 days can be amended by a super majority in parliament. I understand some issues such as bill of rights must be subjected to referendum. What about 60-days? Or is it subject to legal circus?

(a) the supremacy of this Constitution;
(b) the territory of Kenya;
(c) the sovereignty of the people;
(d) the national values and principles of governance referred to in Article 10 (2) (a) to (d);
(e) the Bill of Rights;
(f) the term of office of the President;
(g) the independence of the Judiciary and the commissions and independent offices to which Chapter Fifteen applies;
(h) the functions of Parliament;
(i) the objects, principles and structure of devolved government; or
(j) the provisions of this Chapter.

[Kadame7]

About "legal circus"...no way to avoid it. You need parliamentary supermajority either way unless you go the popular route which is even more of a circus (look at 257).

[vooke]

About "legal circus"...no way to avoid it. You need parliamentary supermajority either way unless you go the popular route which is even more of a circus (look at 257).

Asante Sana. Then NASWA is unrealistic in even suggesting toying around with the 60 days.

What in your opinion is the most realistic way out?

A. Overhauling IEBC
B.UN or any other external body
C. IEBC  as presently constituted

As I aks this, I noticed sudden change of attitude towards Chebuloba. Initially NASWA lambasted everyone but lately they want Chebukati in and Chilobye out

[Kadame7]

About "legal circus"...no way to avoid it. You need parliamentary supermajority either way unless you go the popular route which is even more of a circus (look at 257).

Asante Sana. Then NASWA is unrealistic in even suggesting toying around with the 60 days.

What in your opinion is the most realistic way out?

A. Overhauling IEBC
B.UN or any other external body
C. IEBC  as presently constituted

Obviously C is the most "doable" and B, in my opinion, is COMPLETELY out of the question. I don't see any judge in this country paying B any mind because IEBC is the constitutionally mandated body for carrying out elections in this country. So not without a constitutional change via referendum first. However, A is the best but it requires good will and integrity on the part of current IEBC commissioners which I don't see happening. Also, Chebukati indicated the issue is with the secretariat which he inherited and I am inclined to believe him. How fast can that be changed?

What MAY happen is I think NASA may make it practically impossible for C to happen and the matter of time might end up in court again if IEBC isnt able to deliver credible elections per SCOK judgment on time. But even with time, you still must use the same processes to sort the issue. If they manage to have changed the parliamentary composition they can maybe force Jubilee to play ball. If they use the streets, tensions may escalate quickly and force Jubilee to play ball....In fact as I write and consider this I am more and more terrified as I consider what future all this portends...... Has SCOK put us on the path to a tense future???? Naaah, I hope not.

[vooke]

Why did NASWA sue Chebukati instead of Chilobae?

I watched Moses Kajwang yesterday argue that the list of officials they need out are based on evidence at hand. I doubt NASWA received any additional evidence after filing the petition they didn't have before. Yet they went for Chebukati and not Chilobae. Something's not adding up.

What complicates the issue is the determination was totally silent on Chebukati not to mention the full judgement is yet out. I don't see them waiting for the full judgement to initiate these reforms.

The negroes need to sit together and quickly agree on what's doable and what's not.

There's another NASWA suggestion of UN working with IEBC under the current law and having a heavy supervisory role. But I've heard UN requires at least 4 months of notice.

Most asinine Jubilidiot argument is that NASWA by rejecting IEBC is a stab at the SCOK which gave them a lifeline. IEBC of course is not the current officials and commisioners.
Interesting times ahead.

[Nefertiti]

I don't think NASA or Jubilee is hellbent on chaos... they are likely to throw out Chiloba and the secretariat... and probably go for "international expats" in their place. The UN itself can provide those expats. The clear unsurprising thing is that NASA and Jubilee deeply mistrust each other. I hope no riots/demos will be necessary. If noone has anything to hide there is no need for mvurutano.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I don't think NASA or Jubilee is hellbent on chaos... they are likely to throw out Chiloba and the secretariat... and probably go for "international expats" in their place. The UN itself can provide those expats. The clear unsurprising thing is that NASA and Jubilee deeply mistrust each other. I hope no riots/demos will be necessary. If noone has anything to hide there is no need for mvurutano.

A few key changes at IEBC may be all that is needed.  I for one doubt that Chebukati knowingly played a role in the last farce of an election.  A good thing and a bad thing.  Good because he can be trusted as a fair player.  Bad because it means he is in way over his head.

[Kichwa]

Windy,  I have re-watched the petition submissions and Its hard to exonerate Chebukati.  He may not have participated in the wrong doings but he knew something was seriously wrong.  Lets start with when he forgot to sign the 34C and had to do it on National TV.  Who forgets something like that unless they were under the same pressure Kivuitu talked about.  Second, how could he possible announce the results when he did not have all the 34A's available to him. Last but not least, how could he go ahead and announce the results when all the 34 C's were not in. Nyando and Tana River  constituencies were still blank.  I think Chebukati was being coerced and he therefore knew something very bad was going on but he was ready to go along with it.  The only reason NASA is not going for his head is for the simple reason that there is no time but he has to go after this.  I wish he spills the beans so that this country can start reforming its beleaguered electoral commission in readiness for 2022.  If NASA wins this will be probably their first gift to the nation-a truly independent IEBC.

I don't think NASA or Jubilee is hellbent on chaos... they are likely to throw out Chiloba and the secretariat... and probably go for "international expats" in their place. The UN itself can provide those expats. The clear unsurprising thing is that NASA and Jubilee deeply mistrust each other. I hope no riots/demos will be necessary. If noone has anything to hide there is no need for mvurutano.

A few key changes at IEBC may be all that is needed.  I for one doubt that Chebukati knowingly played a role in the last farce of an election.  A good thing and a bad thing.  Good because he can be trusted as a fair player.  Bad because it means he is in way over his head.

[Nefertiti]

I bequeath no such pedestal to a Kenyan politician. You may be roundly disappointed when Orengo becomes the new cheerleader, a Duale. I want Raila to win because the "lameduck presidency" will be ripe for many reforms - IEBC, etc, just like NARA. Usually it is the executive which defends the status quo.

Windy,  I have re-watched the petition submissions and Its hard to exonerate Chebukati.  He may not have participated in the wrong doings but he knew something was seriously wrong.  Lets start with when he forgot to sign the 34C and had to do it on National TV.  Who forgets something like that unless they were under the same pressure Kivuitu talked about.  Second, how could he possible announce the results when he did not have all the 34A's available to him. Last but not least, how could he go ahead and announce the results when all the 34 C's were not in. Nyando and Tana River  constituencies were still blank.  I think Chebukati was being coerced and he therefore knew something very bad was going on but he was ready to go along with it.  The only reason NASA is not going for his head is for the simple reason that there is no time but he has to go after this.  I wish he spills the beans so that this country can start reforming its beleaguered electoral commission in readiness for 2022.  If NASA wins this will be probably their first gift to the nation-a truly independent IEBC.

[bryan275]

Watching all over the news Jubilee talkingheads talking about "erections", and screaming that NASA want a caretaker government.

The party line is to make wild claims about NASA not wanting to compete in further "fair" elections where IEBC and it's dodgy IT kit stays put.

The rigging infrastructure is still intact.

[Omollo]

He actually stated that he had the results of ALL the 290 constituencies and went ahead to provide some figures. I am still trying to find the announcement video to check if he gave Nyando results.

KM that document was brought to Bomas by Uhuru. It was in fact a forgery. Remember Chebukati getting surprised that there were no spoilt votes in Mombasa?

Windy,  I have re-watched the petition submissions and Its hard to exonerate Chebukati.  He may not have participated in the wrong doings but he knew something was seriously wrong.  Lets start with when he forgot to sign the 34C and had to do it on National TV.  Who forgets something like that unless they were under the same pressure Kivuitu talked about.  Second, how could he possible announce the results when he did not have all the 34A's available to him. Last but not least, how could he go ahead and announce the results when all the 34 C's were not in. Nyando and Tana River  constituencies were still blank.  I think Chebukati was being coerced and he therefore knew something very bad was going on but he was ready to go along with it.  The only reason NASA is not going for his head is for the simple reason that there is no time but he has to go after this.  I wish he spills the beans so that this country can start reforming its beleaguered electoral commission in readiness for 2022.  If NASA wins this will be probably their first gift to the nation-a truly independent IEBC.

I don't think NASA or Jubilee is hellbent on chaos... they are likely to throw out Chiloba and the secretariat... and probably go for "international expats" in their place. The UN itself can provide those expats. The clear unsurprising thing is that NASA and Jubilee deeply mistrust each other. I hope no riots/demos will be necessary. If noone has anything to hide there is no need for mvurutano.

A few key changes at IEBC may be all that is needed.  I for one doubt that Chebukati knowingly played a role in the last farce of an election.  A good thing and a bad thing.  Good because he can be trusted as a fair player.  Bad because it means he is in way over his head.

[vooke]

Omorlo,
Why is NASWA defending Chebukati?

This NASWA rag ran by Okoth Sewe ascribes the reprobates NASWA want out to Chebukati
https://www.kenya-today.com/facing-justice/ceo-chiloba-managers-muhati-kasait-nyabuto-must-sacked-prosecuted-chebukati-declares