Author Topic: How to Rig and Election  (Read 10607 times)

Offline Omollo

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2017, 09:23:15 PM »
Empedocles

I have since learned (as have almost all lawyers in Kenya) that the rules on evidence were changed so evidence can still be filed upto 6 days to the petition date. I must read them for further comment

I uploaded the rules:

http://omollosview.com/blog/2017/08/21/revised-supreme-court-presidential-election-petition-rules-2017/
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2017, 09:35:58 PM »
[pdf]http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/Manuals/Revised%20Supreme%20Court%20Presidential%20Election%20Petition%20Rules%202017.pdf[/pdf]
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Empedocles

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2017, 09:41:05 PM »
Empedocles

I have since learned (as have almost all lawyers in Kenya) that the rules on evidence were changed so evidence can still be filed upto 6 days to the petition date. I must read them for further comment

I uploaded the rules:

http://omollosview.com/blog/2017/08/21/revised-supreme-court-presidential-election-petition-rules-2017/

That was never the point.

Grandstanding, in this case, is because, in my observations on how NASA's acting, they simply don't have the evidence to reach the high threshold of overturning the elections and they know it.

Wanna another clue?


Offline Omollo

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2017, 09:50:17 PM »
Like I suspected, your question had no relation to the issues. You have an agenda of your own. You have no capacity to claim that the petition - which you have not read and even if you did, lack the capacity to comprehend - lacks anything. What is threshhold you refer to. Why not write your own judgement here and take us through the reasoning quoting the relevant authorities, precedence and situations?

I believed you are a thick head before and I still do

Baradhuli.

You have attached a copy of "petition" David Ndii has created. You seem to think that is the NASA petition!!!! God in Heaven, do you sit on your brain?

Please I suggest mutual avoidance because you are one thick piece of crap.
 
Good luck.

Empedocles

I have since learned (as have almost all lawyers in Kenya) that the rules on evidence were changed so evidence can still be filed upto 6 days to the petition date. I must read them for further comment

I uploaded the rules:

http://omollosview.com/blog/2017/08/21/revised-supreme-court-presidential-election-petition-rules-2017/

That was never the point.

Grandstanding, in this case, is because, in my observations on how NASA's acting, they simply don't have the evidence to reach the high threshold of overturning the elections and they know it.

Wanna another clue?

... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Kadame6

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2017, 09:51:54 PM »
Empedocles

I have since learned (as have almost all lawyers in Kenya) that the rules on evidence were changed so evidence can still be filed upto 6 days to the petition date. I must read them for further comment

I uploaded the rules:

http://omollosview.com/blog/2017/08/21/revised-supreme-court-presidential-election-petition-rules-2017/

That was never the point.

Grandstanding, in this case, is because, in my observations on how NASA's acting, they simply don't have the evidence to reach the high threshold of overturning the elections and they know it.

Wanna another clue?

That may be so, but it may also just be a reflection of the attitude towards the SCOK. If I were those judges, and I started getting the same harassment NASA lawyers, Civil Society and (as I  now believe) IEBC got/are getting, I am not sure I would be brave enough to stick a finger in the eye of the beast that is the state. Even if evidence is against all odds produced and we all see it, it is simply unrealistic to except these few individuals to contradict the powers that be. Not to mention Msando's unresolved case is still fresh in all ours and undoubtedly their minds as well. You'd have to be dumb or saintly to do that.

Offline Empedocles

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2017, 10:00:49 PM »
Empedocles

I have since learned (as have almost all lawyers in Kenya) that the rules on evidence were changed so evidence can still be filed upto 6 days to the petition date. I must read them for further comment

I uploaded the rules:

http://omollosview.com/blog/2017/08/21/revised-supreme-court-presidential-election-petition-rules-2017/

That was never the point.

Grandstanding, in this case, is because, in my observations on how NASA's acting, they simply don't have the evidence to reach the high threshold of overturning the elections and they know it.

Wanna another clue?

That may be so, but it may also just be a reflection of the attitude towards the SCOK. If I were those judges, and I started getting the same harassment NASA lawyers, Civil Society and (as I  now believe) IEBC got/are getting, I am not sure I would be brave enough to stick a finger in the eye of the beast that is the state. Even if evidence is against all odds produced and we all see it, it is simply unrealistic to except these few individuals to contradict the powers that be. Not to mention Msando's unresolved case is still fresh in all ours and undoubtedly their minds as well. You'd have to be dumb or saintly to do that.

Agreed on the probable harassment of the SCOK by Jubilee, I would put anything past that psychotic deputy president.

So why would Ndii, an NASA insider, play their Trump  :D card now, even before the game got underway (i.e. the scrutiny of the evidence)?

The manipulation of NASA supporters is obvious and, indirectly, the SCOK judges by Ndii.

Offline Kadame6

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2017, 10:21:03 PM »
Agreed on the probable harassment of the SCOK by Jubilee, I would put anything past that psychotic deputy president.

So why would Ndii, an NASA insider, play their Trump  :D card now, even before the game got underway (i.e. the scrutiny of the evidence)?

The manipulation of NASA supporters is obvious and, indirectly, the SCOK judges by Ndii.
That is definitely a reasonable way of reading that. Maybe they are both trying to keep the SCOK from falling into the power of the other using whatever tools they got. Another might be not to presume it's all coordinated. Maybe Dr. Ndii genuinely represents a segment that feels that way. I remember a few days ago I jokingly mused to Robina that I was fantasizing a peaceful cessation where we allowed Uthamaki to continue and those of us who aren't interested can do our own thing. I wasn't serious but it's definitely a real sentiment that I know is out there. Maybe this Ndii petition is just the same and no more. There are many people who arent bothered with this SCOK petition and are perhaps ready to pursue other avenues. This is why I have been basically preaching our need to begin seriously taking nationalism as a real thing. We need to replace tribes some way some how,

Offline vooke

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2017, 10:25:37 PM »

So why would Ndii, an NASA insider, play their Trump  :D card now, even before the game got underway (i.e. the scrutiny of the evidence)?

The manipulation of NASA supporters is obvious and, indirectly, the SCOK judges by Ndii.

Ndii has been on this for a while. Here's his article from over 1 year ago
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Kenya-is-a-cruel-marriage--it-s-time-we-talk-divorce/440808-3134132-2i7ea3/index.html

But I have come to realize that his views are not necessarily those of NASWA and vice versa. Problem is you can't tell which is His and which is NASWA's. And I think he enjoys this ambiguity probably for plausible deniability sake.

For instance, his outbursts with Anne Kiguta where he admitted NASWA was full of the corrupt just as Jubilee while Babu denied any of his principals were corrupt.

Another one is on SGR. Ndii' idea was another's animal snaking from Lamu through Thika. Babu seeing the wonder that SGR is 'owned' it claiming it was a NARA project only that it was overpriced...

Still on secession, I have seen much chatter from NASWA hecklers/bloggers and I think it goes higher than Ndii
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Empedocles

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2017, 10:55:29 AM »
Agreed on the probable harassment of the SCOK by Jubilee, I would put anything past that psychotic deputy president.

So why would Ndii, an NASA insider, play their Trump  :D card now, even before the game got underway (i.e. the scrutiny of the evidence)?

The manipulation of NASA supporters is obvious and, indirectly, the SCOK judges by Ndii.
That is definitely a reasonable way of reading that. Maybe they are both trying to keep the SCOK from falling into the power of the other using whatever tools they got. Another might be not to presume it's all coordinated. Maybe Dr. Ndii genuinely represents a segment that feels that way. I remember a few days ago I jokingly mused to Robina that I was fantasizing a peaceful cessation where we allowed Uthamaki to continue and those of us who aren't interested can do our own thing. I wasn't serious but it's definitely a real sentiment that I know is out there. Maybe this Ndii petition is just the same and no more. There are many people who arent bothered with this SCOK petition and are perhaps ready to pursue other avenues. This is why I have been basically preaching our need to begin seriously taking nationalism as a real thing. We need to replace tribes some way some how,

Forget replacing tribe with nationalism with our current crop of leaders. Tribalism serves them all of them perfectly well and they'll continue using it to their advantage. That's the only system they know and understand, inherited from the colonial British. Home-guard mentality. The tool against the SCOK.

What Ndii is doing is using the tribalism angle to manipulate NASA supporters, threaten Jubilee and, more importantly, the SCOK. Interestingly enough, none of the NASA head honchos have come out against what's he's proposed. We need not bother asking why, as it already gives us an insight on how confident NASA is on their petition otherwise why preempt?

To them, it's a game of numbers and we're the (un)willing pawns.

"Mine's bigger than your's".

Offline Omollo

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2017, 11:56:35 AM »
vooke

David Ndii has been an unapologetic secessionist for as long as 2008. He declared that Kenya is a cruel marriage - something that is becoming a meme of sorts - and by that launched his campaign for self determination. His Twitter profile is clearly "secessionist".

How can a matter that predates NASA / CORD be a "preemptive" whatever (some things written here lately remind me of the many
madmen at choo.com).

His is not a NASA campaign or something one can call "blackmail". He does not represent NASA's views on the matter and has never said he does. Both Jubilee and NASA have yet to comment or issue a policy on the matter.

His petition is separate from the NASA Presidential Election Petition. Any attempt to link the two is mischievous and propagandistic. Some idiot misunderstood it and now wants to make it an issue to debate. He is free to approach Ndii on twitter and secure his answers. I guarantee he will respond to any intelligent question as he always does.

Courts cannot be intimidated by petitions or referenda which are by themselves grounded in law. The petition, which if the idiot I have in mind bothered to read (and he did not), clearly states which legal underpinning its relying on. I will probably donate space for them to post it online for online signatures.

My approach would have been to see them launch another referendum campaign. If Jubilee frustrates that then proceed to seek a divorce to allow Kikuyus and their Somali friends including Ahmednasir and Isaack Hassan - their own state.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2017, 12:17:03 PM »
Ndii use to write really idioitic "economic" articles but he just confirmed he is raving lunatic. No wonder he supported Raila. So everytime you lose an election - you're going to ask to secede?. If he had some brains left he'd direct his energy to deepening devolution & possibly federalism. Secession - are bloody serious? It easier to execute a military coup than to secede from kenya. Ask Somalis of Northern Frontier.

Offline vooke

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2017, 12:36:50 PM »
vooke

David Ndii has been an unapologetic secessionist for as long as 2008. He declared that Kenya is a cruel marriage - something that is becoming a meme of sorts - and by that launched his campaign for self determination. His Twitter profile is clearly "secessionist".

How can a matter that predates NASA / CORD be a "preemptive" whatever (some things written here lately remind me of the many
madmen at choo.com).

His is not a NASA campaign or something one can call "blackmail". He does not represent NASA's views on the matter and has never said he does. Both Jubilee and NASA have yet to comment or issue a policy on the matter.

His petition is separate from the NASA Presidential Election Petition. Any attempt to link the two is mischievous and propagandistic. Some idiot misunderstood it and now wants to make it an issue to debate. He is free to approach Ndii on twitter and secure his answers. I guarantee he will respond to any intelligent question as he always does.

Courts cannot be intimidated by petitions or referenda which are by themselves grounded in law. The petition, which if the idiot I have in mind bothered to read (and he did not), clearly states which legal underpinning its relying on. I will probably donate space for them to post it online for online signatures.

My approach would have been to see them launch another referendum campaign. If Jubilee frustrates that then proceed to seek a divorce to allow Kikuyus and their Somali friends including Ahmednasir and Isaack Hassan - their own state.


Thanks for that clarification, though I must admit the earliest I can get of Ndii on secession was that March 2016 article.

Here's the problem I have with Ndii. Previously it was not clear his political leanings, and he used to be dismissed as a bitter CBK Governor who never was, but now his political stand is clear; he's NAZI,and as such you can't dismiss his opinions as personal.


That aside, the usual NAZI choir have started singing the secession hymns. So I know it's only a matter of time before it gains currency

Ndungu Wainaina, an 'activist' whose position on EVERYHTING mirrors NASWA's

This Mutai ex-Jubilee blogger who's working very hard to be a CORD blogger
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Offline Omollo

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2017, 03:53:38 PM »
I do not understand the panic about secession. If it is pursued democratically why not? There are countries that split and went on to prosper separately.

I think in Kenya GEMA is scared of being ruled by other tribes. The other tribes are tired and afraid of being ruled either by Kikuyus or kalenjin. So it would be best that the Kalenjin and Kikuyu have their own country since at least one of them is not afraid of being ruled by the other.

Tell me iko makosa wapi? Eritreans did not want to be ruled. They are free and happy under their own bloody dictator. Ethiopians stayed on their own under a tribal hegemon.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Kadame6

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2017, 04:03:30 PM »
I do not understand the panic about secession. If it is pursued democratically why not? There are countries that split and went on to prosper separately.

I think in Kenya GEMA is scared of being ruled by other tribes. The other tribes are tired and afraid of being ruled either by Kikuyus or kalenjin. So it would be best that the Kalenjin and Kikuyu have their own country since at least one of them is not afraid of being ruled by the other.

Tell me iko makosa wapi? Eritreans did not want to be ruled. They are free and happy under their own bloody dictator. Ethiopians stayed on their own under a tribal hegemon.
Indeed. I think they assume it means civil war or something. But Scotland/Quebec have had several referenda to secede from Britain/Canada. I don't get the impression that Dr, Ndii is asking anyone to take up arms. He is just advocating a peaceful process. At the most it will give some aggrieved people avenue to vent some. It's really not that big a deal.

Offline Omollo

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2017, 04:28:59 PM »
Some countries opt to negotiate autonomy. Which largely addresses the grievances driving the motion to secession.

I think it is time to renegotiate the role of different tribes and communities in the union Kenya. The Lancaster negotiations are outdated. Nobody is calling for war.

Indeed. I think they assume it means civil war or something. But Scotland/Quebec have had several referenda to secede from Britain/Canada. I don't get the impression that Dr, Ndii is asking anyone to take up arms. He is just advocating a peaceful process. At the most it will give some aggrieved people avenue to vent some. It's really not that big a deal.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2017, 04:41:10 PM »
I do not understand the panic about secession. If it is pursued democratically why not? There are countries that split and went on to prosper separately.

I think in Kenya GEMA is scared of being ruled by other tribes. The other tribes are tired and afraid of being ruled either by Kikuyus or kalenjin. So it would be best that the Kalenjin and Kikuyu have their own country since at least one of them is not afraid of being ruled by the other.

Tell me iko makosa wapi? Eritreans did not want to be ruled. They are free and happy under their own bloody dictator. Ethiopians stayed on their own under a tribal hegemon.
Indeed. I think they assume it means civil war or something. But Scotland/Quebec have had several referenda to secede from Britain/Canada. I don't get the impression that Dr, Ndii is asking anyone to take up arms. He is just advocating a peaceful process. At the most it will give some aggrieved people avenue to vent some. It's really not that big a deal.

I would support it if the proponents put down some specifics of the values of the new country, not just the borders.  If you are seceding and carrying with you the same values of the state you leaving, you are going nowhere.
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Offline Kadame6

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Re: How to Rig and Election
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2017, 04:44:03 PM »
I do not understand the panic about secession. If it is pursued democratically why not? There are countries that split and went on to prosper separately.

I think in Kenya GEMA is scared of being ruled by other tribes. The other tribes are tired and afraid of being ruled either by Kikuyus or kalenjin. So it would be best that the Kalenjin and Kikuyu have their own country since at least one of them is not afraid of being ruled by the other.

Tell me iko makosa wapi? Eritreans did not want to be ruled. They are free and happy under their own bloody dictator. Ethiopians stayed on their own under a tribal hegemon.
Indeed. I think they assume it means civil war or something. But Scotland/Quebec have had several referenda to secede from Britain/Canada. I don't get the impression that Dr, Ndii is asking anyone to take up arms. He is just advocating a peaceful process. At the most it will give some aggrieved people avenue to vent some. It's really not that big a deal.

I would support it if the proponents put down some specifics of the values of the new country, not just the borders.  If you are seceding and carrying with you the same values of the state you leaving, you are going nowhere.
Totally agree. I think some people just feel it'd be best to start building a nation fresh rather than reforming one in the clutches of a mafia. But this secession idea is not a genuine threat, these nipate jubilants just like to fret over nothing. Let Dr. Ndii vent, kwani iko nini...