Author Topic: Meanwhile In Rwanda  (Read 3352 times)

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8784
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Meanwhile In Rwanda
« on: August 03, 2017, 08:48:27 PM »

Paul Kagame was nominated to represent RPF in the August 4th general election with 1229 out 1230 votes.  One vote was spoiled.  He normally prefers not to vote for himself.

"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kichwa

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2886
  • Reputation: 2697
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 09:10:56 PM »
Order without law.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Nefertiti

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 11375
  • Reputation: 26106
  • Shoo Be Doo Be Doo Oop
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2017, 11:49:49 AM »
Rwanda is a cult system. Expect 93% Kagame. Most serious opponents are in jail. Like Deutschland - it will take decades for them to break out of the anything for peace spell.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8784
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2017, 12:45:23 PM »
Rwanda is a cult system. Expect 93% Kagame. Most serious opponents are in jail. Like Deutschland - it will take decades for them to break out of the anything for peace spell.

He has a shot at declaring himself mwami.  That way they can dispense with the expensive charade of elections.  Rwandan society has been deferential to authoritarians since antiquity.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 11375
  • Reputation: 26106
  • Shoo Be Doo Be Doo Oop
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 01:06:27 PM »
Rwanda is a cult system. Expect 93% Kagame. Most serious opponents are in jail. Like Deutschland - it will take decades for them to break out of the anything for peace spell.

He has a shot at declaring himself mwami.  That way they can dispense with the expensive charade of elections.  Rwandan society has been deferential to authoritarians since antiquity.

It's not Rwandan it's Rwandese... mind your English.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38572
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 03:10:18 PM »
When he dies; does he have a plan?

Offline Kichwa

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2886
  • Reputation: 2697
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 03:45:02 PM »
I believe the Rwandese like all human beings want freedom and choice. Even infants as old as two days old want to have their way. In Kenya we were lucky to have had leaders who said NO not only to the colonialists but continued to say NO to Kenyattaa and Moi at the height of their dictatorial tendencies.  We have therefore developed a very strong culture and tradition of resisting dictators and totalitarians which we can deploy very quickly.  I liked Raila's answer when he was asked to condemn the tribal vitriol in the social media.  The successful story of the opposition has yet to be told because we now focus so much on money and power.  However, it will be a powerful story when the achievements of those who fought for our freedoms post independence is told. It will probably be told after Raila passes away. This is why they cannot finish Raila no matter how much they try. His legacy is sealed. He did not do it alone by any means but he has become a symbol of that struggle with all its success and glory. Money and power come and go but the freedoms and democracy we have achieved will always stay with us.  We are not going back to Egypt.

Rwanda is a cult system. Expect 93% Kagame. Most serious opponents are in jail. Like Deutschland - it will take decades for them to break out of the anything for peace spell.

He has a shot at declaring himself mwami.  That way they can dispense with the expensive charade of elections.  Rwandan society has been deferential to authoritarians since antiquity.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38572
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 04:05:19 PM »
You disproportionately attribute our democratic advancement to Raila. Kenya has always been an advanced democracy by sub-saharan africa. It has always religiously held election every 5yr, has stuck with democratic ideals & practise and apart from Raila failed coup - Kenyans believe in peaceful ousting of power. Where Raila wanted to take Kenya in 82 -is why Rwanda, UG and most of African countries are backwater - under tight military control. We have to thanks the wisdom of Moi, Kenyatta and Kibaki - and now Uhuru - who despite losing here or there - knows Kenya is bigger than them. Raila will NEVER become PORK because he has shown severally that he doesn't mind kenya going down for his ambition. 1982 coup stick out like a sour thumb.

I believe the Rwandese like all human beings want freedom and choice. Even infants as old as two days old want to have their way. In Kenya we were lucky to have had leaders who said NO not only to the colonialists but continued to say NO to Kenyattaa and Moi at the height of their dictatorial tendencies.  We have therefore developed a very strong culture and tradition of resisting dictators and totalitarians which we can deploy very quickly.  I liked Raila's answer when he was asked to condemn the tribal vitriol in the social media.  The successful story of the opposition has yet to be told because we now focus so much on money and power.  However, it will be a powerful story when the achievements of those who fought for our freedoms post independence is told. It will probably be told after Raila passes away. This is why they cannot finish Raila no matter how much they try. His legacy is sealed. He did not do it alone by any means but he has become a symbol of that struggle with all its success and glory. Money and power come and go but the freedoms and democracy we have achieved will always stay with us.  We are not going back to Egypt.

Rwanda is a cult system. Expect 93% Kagame. Most serious opponents are in jail. Like Deutschland - it will take decades for them to break out of the anything for peace spell.

He has a shot at declaring himself mwami.  That way they can dispense with the expensive charade of elections.  Rwandan society has been deferential to authoritarians since antiquity.

Offline Nefertiti

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 11375
  • Reputation: 26106
  • Shoo Be Doo Be Doo Oop
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 04:16:57 PM »
I think Matiba - who is now bankrupt cripple - is the most outstanding second liberation hero. Raila, Imanyara, Nyong'o, Muite, etc are second tier.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8784
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 04:38:46 PM »
Kagame seems to be taking Rwanda the North Korean way.  When he dies, one of his spawn will take over.  And it could go on. 

In spite of kichwa's belief, the people of Rwanda are traditionally and culturally inclined to be told what to do by the leader.  Democracy is not  a good fit for all societies.  In some cases it's actually a bad idea.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kichwa

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2886
  • Reputation: 2697
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 05:27:15 PM »
Unfortunately for you, Raila's achievements are monumental and cannot be destroyed with cheap propaganda and hate.  Raila does not have to be president to be called Baba-the father of Modern KENYA.  Raila's unparralled achievements are  not only recorded in public records-books, newspapers, audio, videos, etc, but is part of our indelible political psyche.   You can rant and rave as much as you want but you will NEVER be able take it away from him.  Even death cannot take it away. Relax.

You disproportionately attribute our democratic advancement to Raila. Kenya has always been an advanced democracy by sub-saharan africa. It has always religiously held election every 5yr, has stuck with democratic ideals & practise and apart from Raila failed coup - Kenyans believe in peaceful ousting of power. Where Raila wanted to take Kenya in 82 -is why Rwanda, UG and most of African countries are backwater - under tight military control. We have to thanks the wisdom of Moi, Kenyatta and Kibaki - and now Uhuru - who despite losing here or there - knows Kenya is bigger than them. Raila will NEVER become PORK because he has shown severally that he doesn't mind kenya going down for his ambition. 1982 coup stick out like a sour thumb.

I believe the Rwandese like all human beings want freedom and choice. Even infants as old as two days old want to have their way. In Kenya we were lucky to have had leaders who said NO not only to the colonialists but continued to say NO to Kenyattaa and Moi at the height of their dictatorial tendencies.  We have therefore developed a very strong culture and tradition of resisting dictators and totalitarians which we can deploy very quickly.  I liked Raila's answer when he was asked to condemn the tribal vitriol in the social media.  The successful story of the opposition has yet to be told because we now focus so much on money and power.  However, it will be a powerful story when the achievements of those who fought for our freedoms post independence is told. It will probably be told after Raila passes away. This is why they cannot finish Raila no matter how much they try. His legacy is sealed. He did not do it alone by any means but he has become a symbol of that struggle with all its success and glory. Money and power come and go but the freedoms and democracy we have achieved will always stay with us.  We are not going back to Egypt.

Rwanda is a cult system. Expect 93% Kagame. Most serious opponents are in jail. Like Deutschland - it will take decades for them to break out of the anything for peace spell.

He has a shot at declaring himself mwami.  That way they can dispense with the expensive charade of elections.  Rwandan society has been deferential to authoritarians since antiquity.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Kichwa

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2886
  • Reputation: 2697
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 05:29:54 PM »
That can be debated but Raila is obviuously the longests serving and also the longest in detention.

I think Matiba - who is now bankrupt cripple - is the most outstanding second liberation hero. Raila, Imanyara, Nyong'o, Muite, etc are second tier.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8784
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 05:42:33 PM »
That can be debated but Raila is obviuously the longests serving and also the longest in detention.

I think Matiba - who is now bankrupt cripple - is the most outstanding second liberation hero. Raila, Imanyara, Nyong'o, Muite, etc are second tier.

Matiba and Rubia were contributors but also relative late-comers.  I think Jaramogi rightfully deserves the mantle of the father of democracy.  There were a few other significant contributors.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8784
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2017, 06:41:49 PM »
You disproportionately attribute our democratic advancement to Raila. Kenya has always been an advanced democracy by sub-saharan africa. It has always religiously held election every 5yr, has stuck with democratic ideals & practise and apart from Raila failed coup - Kenyans believe in peaceful ousting of power. Where Raila wanted to take Kenya in 82 -is why Rwanda, UG and most of African countries are backwater - under tight military control. We have to thanks the wisdom of Moi, Kenyatta and Kibaki - and now Uhuru - who despite losing here or there - knows Kenya is bigger than them. Raila will NEVER become PORK because he has shown severally that he doesn't mind kenya going down for his ambition. 1982 coup stick out like a sour thumb.

I believe the Rwandese like all human beings want freedom and choice. Even infants as old as two days old want to have their way. In Kenya we were lucky to have had leaders who said NO not only to the colonialists but continued to say NO to Kenyattaa and Moi at the height of their dictatorial tendencies.  We have therefore developed a very strong culture and tradition of resisting dictators and totalitarians which we can deploy very quickly.  I liked Raila's answer when he was asked to condemn the tribal vitriol in the social media.  The successful story of the opposition has yet to be told because we now focus so much on money and power.  However, it will be a powerful story when the achievements of those who fought for our freedoms post independence is told. It will probably be told after Raila passes away. This is why they cannot finish Raila no matter how much they try. His legacy is sealed. He did not do it alone by any means but he has become a symbol of that struggle with all its success and glory. Money and power come and go but the freedoms and democracy we have achieved will always stay with us.  We are not going back to Egypt.



He has a shot at declaring himself mwami.  That way they can dispense with the expensive charade of elections.  Rwandan society has been deferential to authoritarians since antiquity.

I agree Raila gets an unfair if understandable amount of credit.  The truth though is he has somehow managed to cultivate an image of an outsider, even though he has been part of the system for a decent while.  If Ruto did the same, you would be calling him a genius.

The Kenyatta, Moi, Kibaki, Uhuru theory is just plain wrong.  Most democratic progress has been made in spite of them.  Uhuru and Ruto are hostile the current constitution and have done everything in their power to minimize its impact.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 11375
  • Reputation: 26106
  • Shoo Be Doo Be Doo Oop
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2017, 10:58:16 PM »
Quote
Paul Kagame re-elected president with 99% of vote in Rwanda election

Former guerrilla leader praised for bringing stability and growth after genocide but criticised as authoritarian wins third term

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/paul-kagame-secures-third-term-in-rwanda-presidential-election
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Kichwa

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2886
  • Reputation: 2697
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 02:47:34 AM »
When you think about what happened in Rwanda during the genocide and the aftermath, then you want to give them a break.  They have a very unique history because of that horrible/unimaginable incident.  Just imagine how Kenyans are still traumatized by the 2008 PEV and that was absolutely nothing compared to what happened in Rwanda.  One day hopefully they will heal and then they can embrace democracy. In Kenya we are still in denial of the trauma 2008 PEV caused some of our citizens  and that is why some folks criticize those who are getting out of the urban arears and going to places up country where they feel safe. Maybe after 2-3 consecutive peaceful elections, Kenyans will forget the 2008 PEV.  I have heard some die-hard Jubilee supporters say that ouru can steal 2007 the elections 2007 kibakik style and that a few people will riot here and there and the police/kdf will take care of it and the country will be back to normal in about three weeks. I hope Ouruto do not believe that crap.


Quote
Paul Kagame re-elected president with 99% of vote in Rwanda election

Former guerrilla leader praised for bringing stability and growth after genocide but criticised as authoritarian wins third term

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/05/paul-kagame-secures-third-term-in-rwanda-presidential-election
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline Globalcitizen12

  • VIP
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1869
  • Reputation: 2875
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 03:35:22 AM »
Kagame will get Tustis killed again he is being stupid. Remember Hutu are in EASTERN Congo waiting for him to die or become impotent politically and they will strike

Offline Kichwa

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2886
  • Reputation: 2697
Re: Meanwhile In Rwanda
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 05:15:16 AM »
 I agree, he should spend this term preparing the country to chose his successor democratically then call it quits.  Too much of a good can turn toxic very quickly.

Kagame will get Tustis killed again he is being stupid. Remember Hutu are in EASTERN Congo waiting for him to die or become impotent politically and they will strike
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza