Uhuru has made Hindu a Kenya 44th tribe

[RV Pundit]

Where was your angst when Uhuru made Makonde (a very small tribe in sisal plantation) - formerly mozambique - and Nubian(Sudanese) - I think - the 43 or 44th tribe. All I can see from you and Kadame is the usual hatred against Indians (Kenyan Asians). Tribe is very important. It allows those kenyan asian to forge their identity with official recongition - teach their kids hindi, perform marriages, name any tribal ceremony, get jobs, get national ids (without being asked great grandfather Id) etc.

I laud Uhuru for expanding Kenyan Asian freedoms & rights. We need to keep adding more tribes because some people feel this is important to them and there is nobody who get harmed if today.

I haven't read the exact law that allows Uhuru to recognize tribes...but I bet this is clarified in the gazette notice.

Uhuru in his small way has recognize makonde and open the way for them to be enrolled as kenyans - and get ID documents. He has granted Nubian - Kibera - as their tribal land - and given them titledeed. Now it's time for Indians to be recognise as tribe and for Parklands  to be recongize as Kenyan Asian Tribal Land as surely it it is. Indians or Kenyan asian can now even teach hindi in their school without some ministry of official saying no. They can elect tribal leaders and make Raila an Indian Elder

The problem is that Ouru is not a tribal leader to confer tribal rights or create tribes like Moi used to create districts willy nilly.  Ouru is the constitutional president of Kenya and the constitution is tribe neutral. An Indian group who considers themselves an Indian tribe of Kenya can make Ouru the leader of their tribe and Ouru can arrange for some individual Indians to become members of Kikuyu tribe but Ouru should not try to use his presidency to confer tribes or create new tribes.  We are trying to get away from roadside pronouncement presidency.

[Kadame5]

An objection was already launched a month ago apparently. Those interested can read it here: http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/05/asians-dont-seek-to-be-44th-tribe_c1571938

Same issues we've raised here: they are not actually a tribe but are a diverse group and as a whole have not asked for this plus it is tribalist, the whole thing. It seems a group within them asked for this in an attempt to help some indian aspirants in the election. And as Kichwa already pointed out, they are not all interested in this new tribe, so why should they be placed in that category?  Also, really interesting discussions in the comments below the article, there are many informed Kenyans.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Kadame,

I think they are being grouped as Desi (how folks from the subcontinent - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka) call themselves.  That said, I still don't get where the Kenyan constitution decides who belongs to what tribe.

[RV Pundit]

Free world. Those who choose to identify themselves as Kenyan Asian can now do so. Those who want to identity themselves as Others in tribal box - say in ID card application or whenever one has to fill that space..will do so.

An objection was already launched a month ago apparently. Those interested can read it here: http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/05/asians-dont-seek-to-be-44th-tribe_c1571938

Same issues we've raised here: they are not actually a tribe but are a diverse group and as a whole have not asked for this plus it is tribalist, the whole thing. It seems a group within them asked for this in an attempt to help some indian aspirants in the election. And as Kichwa already pointed out, they are not all interested in this new tribe, so why should they be placed in that category?  Also, really interesting discussions in the comments below the article, there are many informed Kenyans.

[Kichwa]

No wonder some people refer to you as Baghdad Joe. This conversation should start by looking up the definition of a tribe and not knee jerk emotional reaction to support Ouru.   How can you compare homogeneous traditional African tribes like the Makonde or the Nubians to Indians who are very diverse culturally with glaring/deep/huge language and religious differences.  Its like forcing Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs to belong to one tribe when they come to Kenya just because they are from one country.  Why don't we just have Kenyan Patels, Kenyan Shah's or Kenyan Sikhs instead of lumping together like sheep as if they were nothing until ouru benevolently  gave them a tribal designation. Ouru is full of himself. 

Where was your angst when Uhuru made Makonde (a very small tribe in sisal plantation) - formerly mozambique - and Nubian(Sudanese) - I think - the 43 or 44th tribe. All I can see from you and Kadame is the usual hatred against Indians (Kenyan Asians). Tribe is very important. It allows those kenyan asian to forge their identity with official recongition - teach their kids hindi, perform marriages, name any tribal ceremony, get jobs, get national ids (without being asked great grandfather Id) etc.

I laud Uhuru for expanding Kenyan Asian freedoms & rights. We need to keep adding more tribes because some people feel this is important to them and there is nobody who get harmed if today.

I haven't read the exact law that allows Uhuru to recognize tribes...but I bet this is clarified in the gazette notice.

Uhuru in his small way has recognize makonde and open the way for them to be enrolled as kenyans - and get ID documents. He has granted Nubian - Kibera - as their tribal land - and given them titledeed. Now it's time for Indians to be recognise as tribe and for Parklands  to be recongize as Kenyan Asian Tribal Land as surely it it is. Indians or Kenyan asian can now even teach hindi in their school without some ministry of official saying no. They can elect tribal leaders and make Raila an Indian Elder

The problem is that Ouru is not a tribal leader to confer tribal rights or create tribes like Moi used to create districts willy nilly.  Ouru is the constitutional president of Kenya and the constitution is tribe neutral. An Indian group who considers themselves an Indian tribe of Kenya can make Ouru the leader of their tribe and Ouru can arrange for some individual Indians to become members of Kikuyu tribe but Ouru should not try to use his presidency to confer tribes or create new tribes.  We are trying to get away from roadside pronouncement presidency.

[RV Pundit]

Do you know how diverse the so called Makonde (now calling themselves sisal literally:)) are in Mozambique? Kenyan Asians are one people at least in kenya - obviously in India they are diverse - but here the differences have been smoothen. Again what is wrong if some indians or pakistani petitioned gok to recognise them as a tribe and it was granted. You wanted to have a say or a referendum on this. How does it reduce the Luo pie? How does it affect you?

Your spinning is so silly you probably think you are talking to children. How can you compare homogeneous traditional African tribes with Indians who are so diverse culturally with deep/huge language and religious barriers.  Its like forcing Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs to belong to one tribe when they come to Kenya.  This is not only silly but ridiculous.

[Kichwa]

I wish ouru would focus on his job instead of trying to "smoothen" cultural difference between the Kenyan Asian community. These Asian Kenyans know who they are and do not need Ouru to define them.  61% of Kenyans think Kenya is heading towards the wrong direction and it has something to do with corruption ran amok, high unemployment, the alarming expansion of poverty, hunger, high cost of living, blatant tribalism/nepotism benefiting close family/friends of Ouru and Ruto.

Do you know how diverse the so called Makonde (now calling themselves sisal literally:)) are in Mozambique? Kenyan Asians are one people at least in kenya - obviously in India they are diverse - but here the differences have been smoothen. Again what is wrong if some indians or pakistani petitioned gok to recognise them as a tribe and it was granted. You wanted to have a say or a referendum on this. How does it reduce the Luo pie? How does it affect you?

Your spinning is so silly you probably think you are talking to children. How can you compare homogeneous traditional African tribes with Indians who are so diverse culturally with deep/huge language and religious barriers.  Its like forcing Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs to belong to one tribe when they come to Kenya.  This is not only silly but ridiculous.

[vooke]

I wish ouru would focus on his job instead of trying to "smoothen" cultural difference between the Kenyan Asian community. These Asian Kenyans know who they are and do not need Ouru to define them.  61% of Kenyans think Kenya is heading towards the wrong direction and it has something to do with corruption ran amok, high unemployment, the alarming expansion of poverty, hunger, high cost of living, blatant tribalism/nepotism benefiting close family/friends of Ouru and Ruto.

Do you know how diverse the so called Makonde (now calling themselves sisal literally:)) are in Mozambique? Kenyan Asians are one people at least in kenya - obviously in India they are diverse - but here the differences have been smoothen. Again what is wrong if some indians or pakistani petitioned gok to recognise them as a tribe and it was granted. You wanted to have a say or a referendum on this. How does it reduce the Luo pie? How does it affect you?

Your spinning is so silly you probably think you are talking to children. How can you compare homogeneous traditional African tribes with Indians who are so diverse culturally with deep/huge language and religious barriers.  Its like forcing Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs to belong to one tribe when they come to Kenya.  This is not only silly but ridiculous.

Relax, it's not like the entire office of the president came to a standstill because he recognized Indians as a tribe

[Kichwa]

He cannot creates jobs so now he is creating tribes.

I wish ouru would focus on his job instead of trying to "smoothen" cultural difference between the Kenyan Asian community. These Asian Kenyans know who they are and do not need Ouru to define them.  61% of Kenyans think Kenya is heading towards the wrong direction and it has something to do with corruption ran amok, high unemployment, the alarming expansion of poverty, hunger, high cost of living, blatant tribalism/nepotism benefiting close family/friends of Ouru and Ruto.

Do you know how diverse the so called Makonde (now calling themselves sisal literally:)) are in Mozambique? Kenyan Asians are one people at least in kenya - obviously in India they are diverse - but here the differences have been smoothen. Again what is wrong if some indians or pakistani petitioned gok to recognise them as a tribe and it was granted. You wanted to have a say or a referendum on this. How does it reduce the Luo pie? How does it affect you?

Your spinning is so silly you probably think you are talking to children. How can you compare homogeneous traditional African tribes with Indians who are so diverse culturally with deep/huge language and religious barriers.  Its like forcing Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs to belong to one tribe when they come to Kenya.  This is not only silly but ridiculous.

Relax, it's not like the entire office of the president came to a standstill because he recognized Indians as a tribe

[vooke]

He cannot creates jobs so now he is creating tribes.

I wish ouru would focus on his job instead of trying to "smoothen" cultural difference between the Kenyan Asian community. These Asian Kenyans know who they are and do not need Ouru to define them.  61% of Kenyans think Kenya is heading towards the wrong direction and it has something to do with corruption ran amok, high unemployment, the alarming expansion of poverty, hunger, high cost of living, blatant tribalism/nepotism benefiting close family/friends of Ouru and Ruto.

Do you know how diverse the so called Makonde (now calling themselves sisal literally:)) are in Mozambique? Kenyan Asians are one people at least in kenya - obviously in India they are diverse - but here the differences have been smoothen. Again what is wrong if some indians or pakistani petitioned gok to recognise them as a tribe and it was granted. You wanted to have a say or a referendum on this. How does it reduce the Luo pie? How does it affect you?

Your spinning is so silly you probably think you are talking to children. How can you compare homogeneous traditional African tribes with Indians who are so diverse culturally with deep/huge language and religious barriers.  Its like forcing Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs to belong to one tribe when they come to Kenya.  This is not only silly but ridiculous.

Relax, it's not like the entire office of the president came to a standstill because he recognized Indians as a tribe

Funny thing is NASWA are so envious of this move that they are claiming he stole it from them. Trivialize it but he scored highly with them....not with you

Uhuru implementing NASA manifesto. 🤓
Kenyans of Indian descent become 44th tribe https://t.co/a8dYXsigiu pic.twitter.com/VhME1PnODn

— David Ndii (@DavidNdii) July 22, 2017

Meza wembe

[Nefertiti]

This was done for political expediency (Indian numbers are dismal) but is a harmless gesture. Besides that it's historically justifiable from the vitriol and apartheid Indians have faced from Idi Amin, Kenneth Matiba, etc. I find it to be the equivalent of African Americans with the Indian relative economic might being balanced by their extreme minority. Recall Indians principally got here as rail-building slaves and were devoured by fatigue, whips, hunger, lions & hyenas, malaria, etc. Just like negros! Let them be, it doesn't hurt us.

[MOON Ki]

This was done for political expediency (Indian numbers are dismal) but is a harmless gesture. Besides that it's historically justifiable from the vitriol and apartheid Indians have faced from Idi Amin, Kenneth Matiba, etc. I find it to be the equivalent of African Americans with the Indian relative economic might being balanced by their extreme minority. Recall Indians principally got here as rail-building slaves and were devoured by fatigue, whips, hunger, lions & hyenas, malaria, etc. Just like negros! Let them be, it doesn't hurt us.

Yes, it is a silly but harmless event.    But I would not compare their situation with that of African-Americans, who (a) were denied all sorts of rights and opportunities, (b) were for long denied pretty much any real opportunity to integrate with the rest (majority) of society, and (c) were not brought into place by the locally dominant population and then subsequently abused for ages.  "Fatigue, whips, hunger, lions & hyenas, malaria" ... the "natives" too were getting those from the same sources at the very same time.

Amin etc. were passing aberrations to the norm.  Indians may have had a rough time of it at the start, but, for the most part, they have always generally done quite well, which explains the "relative economic might" that you refer to.  On the whole, Indians in Kenya today are a very privileged lot and have been for quite some time.

And to the extent that they have not "fully integrated", it has largely been a deliberate choice on their part.   That choice, by the way, goes a long way in explaining the "tensions" that still bedevil their relationships with the "natives".  To my mind, they would be better off addressing the roots of those "tensions", rather that assuming that being declared a "tribe" or writing cheques will make them go away.   

[Globalcitizen12]

Indians are their own worst enemy. They fail to intergrate in any society they go into and expect to be accepted that way.. their culture is lousy and until it evolves they will remain a lousy people who main goal is just to chase money like zombies and live on fringes of society

i would hate to be an Indian Kid born abroad. it must be very difficult to live  a life where your family deliberately fails to intergrate and expects you to follow suit. I really pity these kids.

Anyway let these 150K so people continue to live their separate but equal life

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Indians are their own worst enemy. They fail to intergrate in any society they go into and expect to be accepted that way.. their culture is lousy and until it evolves they will remain a lousy people who main goal is just to chase money like zombies and live on fringes of society

i would hate to be an Indian Kid born abroad. it must be very difficult to live  a life where your family deliberately fails to intergrate and expects you to follow suit. I really pity these kids.

Anyway let these 150K so people continue to live their separate but equal life

They seem to integrate better in the US though.  At least that is the impression I get in New York.  Chicago too.  When they are too many they are less insular and more outgoing I think.

You also have to make a distinction between the Gujarats who are the dominant group in Kenya and the others.  Gujarats have more or less the same reputation among the other Indians that they have in Kenya, as businessmen and traders.  They want your money and nothing else.

[Omollo]

Is anybody picking upon the evidence that Asians were already classified as Tribe number 39?

My beef is the haphazard and obviously political nature of the decision. When I notice that the Bureau of statistics has all along treated Asians as a *tribe" and enumerated them as such, I begin to wonder if a more stratified method looking at all such Kenyan peoples excluded from this "club" of tribes would have captured this and rather than purport to "add" a new tribe and still end up with 43 tribes, came up with a robust list, seek parliamentary approval and get it done.

The world over, executive decisions can be reversed when the persons behind the executive change. We have seen what Trump is doing to Obama's executive decisions and what Obama himself did to Bush's orders.

In Kenya the "districts" created by Moi and Kibaki suffered the same fate. However those where he took time to include parliament and allow a robust debate and the participation of the involved people ended up staying and are now counties.