Tinga Magufuli - jailing opposition leaders - what you expect Raila will do.

[RV Pundit]

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This magufuli is big mistake that TZ will regret in fullness of time.

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/africa/Tanzanian-opposition-figure-arrested/1066-4025420-dawwa2z/index.html

Opposition meetings are banned, newspapers have been shut down and journalists and artists have been threatened or received death threats for criticising the administration.

[vooke]

Theory has it that if you suppress the electorate, to keep them under you sedate them with maendeleo. That's how China manages, no idea how North Korea does it. Else they will surely revolt. I wonder what he's giving TZ in return

[Kadame5]

Ati Raila oppressing opposition. Pundit enyewe wacha urongo. It is you who has been calling for MOI 2 with Uhuruto who dont care all that much about constitution. What about Raila indicates a desire to silence critics? Raila cares too much about his rep with the West to turn dictator. It's the ICC folk who would do that if they thought they could get away with it, specifically RUTO, not even Uhuru. Pundits posts often boast of that undercurrent here and there.

[Kadame5]

Theory has it that if you suppress the electorate, to keep them under you sedate them with maendeleo. That's how China manages, no idea how North Korea does it. Else they will surely revolt. I wonder what he's giving TZ in return

Actually, my views have shifted. I really don't see the Chinese as repressed apart from the child restrictions. Their day to day lives are no different from Europeans at least in the big cities. Sure, they dont really chose their leaders but I get the impression most dont care to anyway. To them, what they have is normal. They dont care all that much about siasa. They party, shop, go to school/work, date and marry and do what others do. Their lives are vastly easier than Kenyans' in fact and for many of them, doesnt seem different from Europeans' lives.

Now North Korea is a hell hole. To be fair, I dont know that from first hand experience. Labda ni propaganda tu. These days imIm weary of too much propaganda from Western media about places outside the west. They tend to seriously skew the picture of non Western places.

Saudi Arabia for sure is repressed. Control peopkes lives soooooo much. China just doesnt have democracy but they rareky interfere in people's lives. To the West, if people dont have governance like theirs, they are seen as oppressed people. Im starting to question this though. The one repressive thing about China is the child restriction and the irritating curbs on social media but other than that their government couldnt care less what you do with your life apart from kawaida crimes....unlike in Saudia and Im guessing N. Korea where the government is in your house, yoyr kitchen, your bedroom.....

[vooke]

Theory has it that if you suppress the electorate, to keep them under you sedate them with maendeleo. That's how China manages, no idea how North Korea does it. Else they will surely revolt. I wonder what he's giving TZ in return

Actually, my views have shifted. I really don't see the Chinese as repressed apart from the child restrictions. Their day to day lives are no different from Europeans at least in the big cities. Sure, they dont really chose their leaders but I get the impression most dont care to anyway. To them, what they have is normal. They dont care all that much about siasa. They party, shop, go to school/work, date and marry and do what others do. Their lives are vastly easier than Kenyans' in fact and for many of them, doesnt seem different from Europeans' lives.

Now North Korea is a hell hole. To be fair, I dont know that from first hand experience. Labda ni propaganda tu. These days imIm weary of too much propaganda from Western media about places outside the west. They tend to seriously skew the picture of non Western places.

Saudi Arabia for sure is repressed. Control peopkes lives soooooo much. China just doesnt have democracy but they rareky interfere in people's lives. To the West, if people dont have governance like theirs, they are seen as oppressed people. Im starting to question this though. The one repressive thing about China is the child restriction and the irritating curbs on social media but other than that their government couldnt care less what you do with your life apart from kawaida crimes....unlike in Saudia and Im guessing N. Korea where the government is in your house, yoyr kitchen, your bedroom.....

China cracks down hard on opposition, saw that Nobel Laureate who died under house arrest? Then there's serious information censorship,internet in particular, even HRW have various reports to this effect. While it's true there are fake/skewed news, I think news on China come from all corners

[RV Pundit]

Just see what Raila has done to Luo Nyanza and tell you me what democracy is there.Raila will use his luo fanatics to suppress our freedoms.He will bulldoze through like tinga his friend maguli.

Just

Ati Raila oppressing opposition. Pundit enyewe wacha urongo. It is you who has been calling for MOI 2 with Uhuruto who dont care all that much about constitution. What about Raila indicates a desire to silence critics? Raila cares too much about his rep with the West to turn dictator. It's the ICC folk who would do that if they thought they could get away with it, specifically RUTO, not even Uhuru. Pundits posts often boast of that undercurrent here and there.

Ati Raila oppressing opposition. Pundit enyewe wacha urongo. It is you who has been calling for MOI 2 with Uhuruto who dont care all that much about constitution. What about Raila indicates a desire to silence critics? Raila cares too much about his rep with the West to turn dictator. It's the ICC folk who would do that if they thought they could get away with it, specifically RUTO, not even Uhuru. Pundits posts often boast of that undercurrent here and there.

[RVtitem]

Magufuli is more popular in Tanzania than Uhuru is in Kenya.

So I guess Magufuli does what his people sent him to do as a president and is better at getting it done than helplessly crying uhuru.

[Nefertiti]

I don't see Magufuli as a failure - too early to tell give him time. TZ economy is not doing badly and the momentum is what matters more. So seizing companies and such look like bad moves but let's wait.

Now Kenya... on the contrary Raila is full liberal on women & gay rights, free healthcare & social programs, redistribution, etc which would be great for freedom and the poor but could spell economic disaster. Welcome to Venezuela.

Ruto on the other hand is Kagame-style dictator who would kill democracy and freedom in favor of unity and development. People would have to toe the line or else. Pundit's shameless bragging of his "quivers" including ransoming RV kikuyus should tell you something. Sending Jubilee folks to study Chinese Communist Party is a signature Ruto idea. Signs of a dictator.

I see both of them as lacking Uhuru's laidback ease. Both are demagogues and political zealots. By the way, they are the only choice we have. Ruto will have the last laugh.

[Kichwa]

Pundit, Your childish and cheap propaganda hate-speech against luo citizens of Kenya and this world speaks volumes of your ignorance. Raila has a record, and we do not have to guess what he will do as president:  He is the very personification of the 2nd liberation movement which ushered in all the freedoms that idiots like you now enjoy, and then enshrined them in a constitution. Somehow you think you are better than luos  but since ouru became president, five years ago NOTHING has really changed in your life of significance other than the childish bragging rights that you supported a political party that is in power. Now you actually believe you are a genius on the electoral process of Kenya and the entire world. Only an ignorant idiot thinks like that. You remind me of the ignorant uneducated white folks who think they are better than all blacks just because of their skin color.  You are no different from a manamba by making  ignorant and demeaning utterances against luos just because they exercise their democratic rights to support Raila. Who the F are you to lecture anybody.

Just see what Raila has done to Luo Nyanza and tell you me what democracy is there.Raila will use his luo fanatics to suppress our freedoms.He will bulldoze through like tinga his friend maguli.

Just

Ati Raila oppressing opposition. Pundit enyewe wacha urongo. It is you who has been calling for MOI 2 with Uhuruto who dont care all that much about constitution. What about Raila indicates a desire to silence critics? Raila cares too much about his rep with the West to turn dictator. It's the ICC folk who would do that if they thought they could get away with it, specifically RUTO, not even Uhuru. Pundits posts often boast of that undercurrent here and there.

Ati Raila oppressing opposition. Pundit enyewe wacha urongo. It is you who has been calling for MOI 2 with Uhuruto who dont care all that much about constitution. What about Raila indicates a desire to silence critics? Raila cares too much about his rep with the West to turn dictator. It's the ICC folk who would do that if they thought they could get away with it, specifically RUTO, not even Uhuru. Pundits posts often boast of that undercurrent here and there.

[Nefertiti]

Wow Kichwa that's such a rant.

[Kichwa]

I can't stand it when an idiot thinks he is better than a whole tribe of people just because he belongs to another tribe. This is why I have tried to move this debate from tribe to issues because that is what it is really all about despite the correlation.  The candidates know that it is about the issues and that is why they are campaigning so hard everywhere.  Its the idiots like Pundit who want to make it tribal just because they believe its their easy way to win and avoid the glaring issues affecting Kenyans of all tribes. They do not want us to talk about, corruption, unemployment, high cost of living, etc.  They want Kenyans to focus on the tribe to exploit the Kalenjin/Kikuyu numbers and forget about everything else.  Pundit has a right to believe that Ouruto's presidency best serves his personal or tribal interest but he does not have any right to look down on Raila supporters who come from all tribes including his Kalenjin tribe.  Raila would not be a viable presidential candidate if he was only supported by the luo community. Where the hell does he think Raila got the millions of vote he got in 2013 if he did not have support all over Kenya.  I know and I am friends with a lot of people who supported Ouruto and I know they are NOT doing any worse or no better than those of us who supported Raila in 2013.  These are ideological differences and tribe is like a poison you place at the tip of an arrow or a nuclear head at the tip of a rocket to make it more potent.  The poison at the tip of an arrow or the nuclear war head is useless without the arrow or the rocket.

Wow Kichwa that's such a rant.

[Kadame5]

Wow Kichwa that's such a rant.

Thing is, I don't know what Raila has done in Nyanza that Ouruto and Kibaki before them and Moi before them had not done in central and Kalenjin RV. If he has successfully beaten every other contendor to become the top tribal King for his tribe, so have the others. In fact he has achieved what the others have not, he is essentially 'king' in several groups not being his tribe like coast, western, even among Gusii to a large extent. I don't know what Pundit is referring to when he says what Raila did in Luo Nyanza. It's him who has threatened violence to Kyuks should they not support Ruto in 2022. But he'd become super defensive if you said that this indictates Ruto's dictatorial tendencies. Who can be more of 'goons' than people ready to commit or threaten crimes against humanity to a tribe to ensure support to their tribal king? Kweli Pundit na double standards zake, wa!

Say what you will about his failures but Raila has made his entire career aligned with the expansion of political freedoms. That he'd throw away that legacy upon becoming President especially in the context of a constitution like ours, seems like a bald-faced lie to me. I don't believe even Pundit believes it when he is typing, lol!

[Nefertiti]

Brainy men are very arrogant. I interact with quite abit of those in my line of work and they have vainglory and pomposity pouring out of their ears. Invariably! That's what I read in Pundit - arrogance and conceit - not prejudice. I am sure he is good in his work life too and that cements the hubris. Incidentally the MOAS are right in my opinion but do not represent genius. He has access to accurate demographics according to HK[?] which is necessary for the spreadsheet to work. The rest are functions and formulae.

I can't stand it when an idiot thinks he is better than a whole tribe of people just because he belongs to another tribe. This is why I have tried to move this debate from tribe to issues because that is what it is really all about despite the correlation.  The candidates know that it is about the issues and that is why they are campaigning so hard everywhere.  Its the idiots like Pundit who want to make it tribal just because they believe its their easy way to win and avoid the glaring issues affecting Kenyans of all tribes. They do not want us to talk about, corruption, unemployment, high cost of living, etc.  They want Kenyans to focus on the tribe to exploit the Kalenjin/Kikuyu numbers and forget about everything else.  Pundit has a right to believe that Ouruto's presidency best serves his personal or tribal interest but he does not have any right to look down on Raila supporters who come from all tribes including his Kalenjin tribe.  Raila would not be a viable presidential candidate if he was only supported by the luo community. Where the hell does he think Raila got the millions of vote he got in 2013 if he did not have support all over Kenya.  I know and I am friends with a lot of people who supported Ouruto and I know they are NOT doing any worse or no better than those of us who supported Raila in 2013.  These are ideological differences and tribe is like a poison you place at the tip of an arrow or a nuclear head at the tip of a rocket to make it more potent.  The poison at the tip of an arrow or the nuclear war head is useless without the arrow or the rocket.

[RV Pundit]

Kichwa & Kademe, Let us face reality. Raila won over Luo Nyanza through sheer force and still uses sheer force to crush any dissent.If Kichwa today was to differ with Raila - like Miguna Miguna - he will become persona-non-grata. No less than a week or two ago...Kisumu goons started political violence that nearly engulfed the whole country as it spread to Baringo & Thika (in retaliation). The epicenter of political violence in Kenya is Kibera & Luo Nyanza (Kisumu). You can see violence that started the day Raila went to Kibera - a seat that use to be won by even wazungu - but ever since Raila relocated to Kibera in 92 -- at least 3 people or more have to die every election -92.96 by-election, 97, 2002, 2007, 2013...name it. Kibera and Kisumu will become peaceful post- Raila but for now - it's nothing but democratic. Go to Kisumu or Kibera- and shout Jubilee...and come back alive..and write long inshas about Raila democratic credentials. NOw imagine these goons having the backing of security forces if Raila was to be pork - and you have Magufuli.

In fact part of the reason why Raila is not pork is precisely the fear shared by many kenyans that he will be a dictator like no one else. Moi was a dictator - but he was mostly humble bible-thumping dictator - Raila for many kenyans would be the worse dictator ever seen in this country.I mean nobody fears Kalonzo or MaDVD.

The accusation against WSR have no basis. WSR has never engaged or sponsored political violence. WSR win political battles by working harder & longer - and outspending - any of his opponent. I mean right now in RV - people are free to join any party or support anybody - without getting  anyone getting arrested or beaten by goons.  Right now it would be easy or convenient for WSR to use police & gok machinery against NASA or CCM in RV - but he has not done that.

Isaac Rutto is small time goon - his history of violence like Raila starts from childhood. Raila right from the time he was young boy was always a violent dictator and will not change. His father Jaramogi was not violent or dictatorial.

Like it or not - Raila like his friend Magufuli - will alwalys remain a violent dictator this country will regret if it ever elect as PORK. Kalenjin in 07 nearly made that mistake when they let anger against Kibaki overcome their sense of judgement.

WSR is a victim of Maina Kia and his groupies who concocted the malicious accusation against WSR which of course turn out to be total falsehood. WSR has no history of violence. Not in primary school. Not in university. Not Now. Not history of dictatorship. Unless you confuse decisiviness with dictatorship.

[vooke]

I'm not sure if it's Luos who are violent or Raila or both. I have said I dread running into Gor fans regardless of whether they are going to or coming from a match and regardless of the score lines.

That recklessness is what I see in Nyanza; easily excitable masses. Raila's strengths seems to be in stirring it up. The guys who refused to pay rent just because he was appointed minister.

So I was tickled when I saw him asking to rein in his supporters in Thika while distancing himself from Kisumu.

Someone (a Luo) once hypothesized that they may have higher testosterone levels on average like the Igbo people.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Magufuli must love to sit back and reminisce over the chaos he is causing.  He has the power to do certain things.  He should use that to strengthen the independence of institutions.  But he wants his fingers in everything.

The stereotypes:  If you've lived in the US for a while, you will easily recognize and be amused by these stereotypes made about an ethnic group.  Made by people who themselves would be on the business end of the same stereotype.  They are applied to black people(every last one of them, including the unborn).  A lot of people believe a black person is just as likely to kill you as say "good morning, neighbor".  It's a celebration of ignorance.

[Kichwa]

VOOKE: You are a bigger idiot than I thought possible. No wonder Omollo has no tolerance for your nonsense. 

I'm not sure if it's Luos who are violent or Raila or both. I have said I dread running into Gor fans regardless of whether they are going to or coming from a match and regardless of the score lines.

That recklessness is what I see in Nyanza; easily excitable masses. Raila's strengths seems to be in stirring it up. The guys who refused to pay rent just because he was appointed minister.

So I was tickled when I saw him asking to rein in his supporters in Thika while distancing himself from Kisumu.

Someone (a Luo) once hypothesized that they may have higher testosterone levels on average like the Igbo people.

[vooke]

VOOKE: You are a bigger idiot than I thought possible. No wonder Omollo has no tolerance for your nonsense. 

I'm not sure if it's Luos who are violent or Raila or both. I have said I dread running into Gor fans regardless of whether they are going to or coming from a match and regardless of the score lines.

That recklessness is what I see in Nyanza; easily excitable masses. Raila's strengths seems to be in stirring it up. The guys who refused to pay rent just because he was appointed minister.

So I was tickled when I saw him asking to rein in his supporters in Thika while distancing himself from Kisumu.

Someone (a Luo) once hypothesized that they may have higher testosterone levels on average like the Igbo people.

Shoot the messenger after reading the message

[Kichwa]

That's an insult and not a message. Actually it reflects more on you as a person than on the people you think you are trying to demean.  I wonder how many points you scored with your luo hating club by making that idiotic statement. Why don't you ask Tuju that silly question.

VOOKE: You are a bigger idiot than I thought possible. No wonder Omollo has no tolerance for your nonsense. 

I'm not sure if it's Luos who are violent or Raila or both. I have said I dread running into Gor fans regardless of whether they are going to or coming from a match and regardless of the score lines.

That recklessness is what I see in Nyanza; easily excitable masses. Raila's strengths seems to be in stirring it up. The guys who refused to pay rent just because he was appointed minister.

So I was tickled when I saw him asking to rein in his supporters in Thika while distancing himself from Kisumu.

Someone (a Luo) once hypothesized that they may have higher testosterone levels on average like the Igbo people.

Shoot the messenger after reading the message

[vooke]

That's an insult and not a message. Actually it reflects more on you as a person than on the people you think you are trying to demean.  I wonder how many points you scored with your luo hating club by making that idiotic statement. Why don't you ask Tuju that silly question.

VOOKE: You are a bigger idiot than I thought possible. No wonder Omollo has no tolerance for your nonsense. 

I'm not sure if it's Luos who are violent or Raila or both. I have said I dread running into Gor fans regardless of whether they are going to or coming from a match and regardless of the score lines.

That recklessness is what I see in Nyanza; easily excitable masses. Raila's strengths seems to be in stirring it up. The guys who refused to pay rent just because he was appointed minister.

So I was tickled when I saw him asking to rein in his supporters in Thika while distancing himself from Kisumu.

Someone (a Luo) once hypothesized that they may have higher testosterone levels on average like the Igbo people.

Shoot the messenger after reading the message

Running away from facts. Ask Nairobians; everyone including Luos dread Gor Mahia goons.